Higher math

[Green Bean]

Hi. In addition to my 5 yr old, I have 2 middle school kids (boy & girl) almost ready to make that leap from elementary math to the world of pre-algebra and up. I was wondering what are some of our options for the non-Singapore Math educated child.

A little background is in order: we have mostly used a mix of Saxon and BJU up to this point. Of the two providers, the kids much prefer BJU's set up of chapters exploring one topic in detail before moving on. I have read too many bad reviews of the BJU higher books' errors and uneven difficulty level to feel comfortable using them. Neither has had any issues understanding math. We do not like computer-based math. Clear textbooks and paper are the best choice here.

Thank you.

[Lori D.]

Welcome! I see by your post count that you are new. 😄

Possible Christian Light Education? -- traditional teaching methods, text + workbook/paper
Horizons is also traditional teaching methods & text + workbook, but it only goes through Algebra 1.
Teaching Textbooks is also fairly traditional in presentation, but it is video-lesson/computer-based.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lori D.

[Green Bean]

Any other options besides these for higher math? 

[smfmommy]

Masterbooks has Principles of Math books 1&2 for pre-algebra and then uses Jacob's for Algebra and Geometry.  Jacob's is a classic textbook.  Not sure if Abeka is more spiral than BJU but its a solid textbook program.  Math-u-see can be jumped into at pre-algebra fairly easily.  

MEP Maths is free online.  While it is teacher intensive in grades k-6 the Years 7+ are more independent.  Each chapter is independent but their are cumulative tests that we use as review.

 

 

[serendipitous journey]

I like Math-U-See as one higher math option.  Algebra II has required the most management by me (of the MUS upper level programs). 

You could also try Beast Academy 5 for the children and move them from that into AoPS Pre-Algebra.  My children find the Beast Academy workbooks incredibly tedious, so they have preferred online when we do BA, and then I often need to be "at-elbow" during math time. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by serendipitous journey

[Green Bean]

Thanks- I will check these out.

[8filltheheart]

Foerster is my favorite alg 1 and 2 textbook author.  I have successfully used his books with all of my kids.  (My youngest 2 are currently in his alg 1 and alg 2 bks.)

I have used both Jacobs geometry and Chalkdust's Alexander text for geometry.  

My approach with my kids has been to complete Horizon's k-6th grade books (with Hands On Equations' Verbal Bk for additional word problems), then use MUS alg and geo books for pre-alg/pre-geo, and then progress to Foerster's alg 1.  It has been a solid mathematical sequence that has enabled my kids to go on to successful STEM careers.

[El...]

Have you considered Saxon? It was very solid for my brother who was also homeschooled. The instructions are explicit.  It includes a lot of practice. People who like it, love it.

I prefer AOPS, not just because it's advanced and clever, but because it's so word-heavy. I love the way AOPS explains concepts. However, it might be a hard leap from BJU because it leads you to understand, rather than telling you how things are done. I'm using Beast Academy and AOPS with my kids.

[madteaparty]

I’m using Math Mammoth Prealgebra with my DD. We moved to it from finishing Russian Math Year 5 and more recently the first half of Beast 5 (which she liked okay and, for various reasons unrelated to math sequence or program, we will return to via an actual class next semester to finish off. 
I don’t quite know what to make of Math Mammoth yet. It’s a bit…boring? but I can see where it would be effective. It reminds me a little of the feel of WWE series, incredibly incremental but it’s going somewhere you can’t quite see when you’re in the painstaking weeds. For more fun and games we do alongside some of  Zaccaro’s Problem Solving Genius, which is more puzzles/fun but not quite beat-you-over the-head with it like beast. Anyway, don’t do what we do 😉 I love MEP also but can’t be bothered with all the printing. And for algebra I also love Forrester which has been mentioned here, I just don’t want to reach it myself so I don’t know what we will do then 🙂

[Green Bean]

More options! I love it! Thank you, everyone!

[Janeway]

On 11/12/2021 at 12:20 PM, Green Bean said:

Hi. In addition to my 5 yr old, I have 2 middle school kids (boy & girl) almost ready to make that leap from elementary math to the world of pre-algebra and up. I was wondering what are some of our options for the non-Singapore Math educated child.

A little background is in order: we have mostly used a mix of Saxon and BJU up to this point. Of the two providers, the kids much prefer BJU's set up of chapters exploring one topic in detail before moving on. I have read too many bad reviews of the BJU higher books' errors and uneven difficulty level to feel comfortable using them. Neither has had any issues understanding math. We do not like computer-based math. Clear textbooks and paper are the best choice here.

Thank you.

BJU's higher level is actually excellent. Some people don't use them as they do not like the ideology of BJU. Errors is not an issue that I have ever seen at the higher levels, or lower ones. If you like BJU, stick with it.

My favorites for algebra would be Foerster's, Dolciani, and Jacobs. But BJU is just as good as any of these. I have loved Jurgenson's for geometry so I have never tried anything else. For algebra 2, I have Foerster's and Dolciani. In the case of all of these levels, I like BJU also. I have only used BJU when tutoring someone who uses it, so I have become familiar with it in that way. I see no problems or issues with the program and would recommend it without hesitation. 

[serendipitous journey]

You know, I just came across a very interesting -- and quite old -- post on Physics Forums.  The sort of thing I like: opinionated, experienced & erudite.  Won't work as-is for me (or probably for anyone else!) but I'm pulling some of the resources for us to try -- the Gelfand Algebra, for example, which I found as a free pdf.

Anyhow, might be fun to look at. 

[Green Bean]

Thank you everyone!

[madteaparty]

25 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

@madteaparty do you find it boring, your kids or both?  Just asking because I am finding my kids like stuff that I think is boring.  They like it because they actually make progress and have confidence with their skills vs constantly being frustrated with the more exciting things we’ve tried.  We are using math mammoth and I plan on sticking with it.  We don’t even skip problems at all, because I found that so many people thought they needed to supplement it as it got more challenging.  Or they would switch at that point.  They love it.. my oldest likes to make up really big multiplication problems to work on our whiteboard for fun now.  He’s been doing multi digit multiplication for months and is not tired of it yet.  It was painful for him to get it, but now that he does it’s like he actually enjoys math now.

Sounds like it’s working great for you guys. 💪

[Green Bean]

27 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

@madteaparty do you find it boring, your kids or both?  Just asking because I am finding my kids like stuff that I think is boring.  They like it because they actually make progress and have confidence with their skills vs constantly being frustrated with the more exciting things we’ve tried.  We are using math mammoth and I plan on sticking with it.  We don’t even skip problems at all, because I found that so many people thought they needed to supplement it as it got more challenging.  Or they would switch at that point.  They love it.. my oldest likes to make up really big multiplication problems to work on our whiteboard for fun now.  He’s been doing multi digit multiplication for months and is not tired of it yet.  It was painful for him to get it, but now that he does it’s like he actually enjoys math now.

This is rather funny- my daughter said tonight that math is becoming fun the more work she does.

She will finish her math book Friday. I feel like I'm still scrambling to make a choice we can all live with that fits what they need to learn and master concepts, and what I need to teach.

I'm looking at MUS now just to peek.

[Green Bean]

I decided to go with Saxon.

I have a question, though. Looking ahead, should we go with the standard homeschool track of Alg 1, Alg 2, Adv. Math or the new track with the geometry book in the middle? Reading Cathy Duffy, she seems to quite like the new editions better. What says the Hive?

Never mind. I decided to stick with the original sequence.

Thank you all for your advice.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Green Bean

[Green Bean]

On 11/19/2021 at 6:14 AM, 8filltheheart said:

Foerster is my favorite alg 1 and 2 textbook author.  I have successfully used his books with all of my kids.  (My youngest 2 are currently in his alg 1 and alg 2 bks.)

I have used both Jacobs geometry and Chalkdust's Alexander text for geometry.  

My approach with my kids has been to complete Horizon's k-6th grade books (with Hands On Equations' Verbal Bk for additional word problems), then use MUS alg and geo books for pre-alg/pre-geo, and then progress to Foerster's alg 1.  It has been a solid mathematical sequence that has enabled my kids to go on to successful STEM careers.

Hi! Quick question: when you do the MUS, do you use the blocks/overlays/videos or just the books?

[8filltheheart]

Just the books. My kids have never needed manipulatives to comprehend math.

[Lori D.]

11 hours ago, Green Bean said:

...when you do the MUS, do you use the blocks/overlays/videos or just the books?

We started MUS in 5th grade (and then used it through high school) with DS#2 with mild LDs (needs visual/hands-on for abstract math topics). We used the blocks for the first year (5th grade), and after that, just watching the videos was enough for him.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lori D.

[Green Bean]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:16 AM, 8filltheheart said:

Just the books. My kids have never needed manipulatives to comprehend math.

Mine either. They loathe them.

Thanks to both you and Lori D for responding.

[Janeway]

I really do like BJU for higher maths, but actually do not use them myself. I have used Jacobs, Foersters, and Dolciani for algebra 1, Jurgenson for Geometry (love Jurgenson and likely will never use a different one, but I did get a good impression of Sierra, so I would seriously consider Sierra if I did not have Jurgensen). For algebra 2, I have used both Foerster and Dolciani and prefer Dolciani. I will say that I do consider all these books to be equal in quality, just different in style. 

[Green Bean]

I agree- BJU is a good program. 

I have heard those names/programs bantered around for a long time. I'm glad you have things you like. We are not discovery people. Honestly, my kids don't care about the why of math, just the how. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Green Bean

[Lucy the Valiant]

We use Houghton / Dolciani for Pre-algebra / alg / alg-inregrated geometry / all 2 & trig. After that they move smoothly into (out-sourced) calculus with whatever book the teacher uses. The Houghton books have excellent step-by-step instructions (vs. BJU which is more teacher-dependent), so kids can self-study / self-pace. 

[Janeway]

I should add, we have been happily using MEP here for my son who needed prealgebra/algebra. It is actually going well. I really like how some things are explained. For example, it did a great build up to factoring polynomials as well as multiplying them out.

[Green Bean]

12 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

We use Houghton / Dolciani for Pre-algebra / alg / alg-inregrated geometry / all 2 & trig. After that they move smoothly into (out-sourced) calculus with whatever book the teacher uses. The Houghton books have excellent step-by-step instructions (vs. BJU which is more teacher-dependent), so kids can self-study / self-pace. 

Do you have a link? I bought Videotext but we can’t seem to get it going. We aren’t good with videos.

[Lucy the Valiant]

Here's a link for the Algebra: Structure & Method book - I might be doing it wrong or looking at the wrong time of year, though, because our books were piece-meal collected for less than $20 each. We do not use any videos either, and my kids hate math online; we just sit with the textbook and a spiral notebook (sometimes a whiteboard), and a syllabus at the kitchen table. 

In real life, my friends call these "Houghton math books", but I have noticed that here on WTM they are often referred to by one of the author's last name "Dolciani math." 

I found the books and answer keys from various used book sources, maybe too long ago; they used to have free online solutions posted on CalcChat, but I found the Alg 2 & Trig solutions this year at Quizlet. I'm currently on my 3rd student through this path. I'm not a mathematician, though, or even a really good math teacher; we found these on recommendation (kids did Singapore Math 1-6 first), and since they worked well, we stuck with them. They have A-level problems, B-level, and C-level, which I initially thought would be very helpful, but we ended up not really needing.

(Edit: Pre-Algebra (again, ours was ~$10-15 / book). 

Geometry: An Integrated Approach (this one is Larson, not Houghton; it's a solid geometry course and review of algebra; we do it in between Alg 1 and Alg 2)

Algebra 2 & Trig.  (this is a full year, and after this course they do Calc I)

Edited March 9, 2022 by Lucy the Valiant

[Green Bean]

Thank you!

WOW! That Pre-Algebra book price is eye popping! The others seem reasonable. I will check them out.

[mom31257]

I used Christian Light math for both my own kids in middle school. I found it prepared them very well for higher math.
 

I use Lial’s college remedial textbooks algebra  for my algebra based online classes, but I do supplement for some standards that aren’t included (particularly extending graphing, statistics, and probability). 
I use Holt Geometry for geometry. I used this with my own kids, too. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by mom31257

[Servant4Christ]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:49 PM, Green Bean said:

Do you have a link? I bought Videotext but we can’t seem to get it going. We aren’t good with videos.

You bought VideoText?! How do you like it? I've been trying to decide between this or a combo of Foersters Algebra and Jacobs Geometry for highschool.

[Ellie]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:16 AM, 8filltheheart said:

Just the books. My kids have never needed manipulatives to comprehend math.

Back in the 80s when I started hsing, it was assumed that ALL CHILDREN needed to use manipulatives for everything; MathIt and Winston Grammar were supposed to be superior because they "used" manipulatives; Making Math Meaningful (which I have never seen mentioned here) was also very popular. I know now that both of my dc (and me, for that matter) would have died if they had been required to manipulate things in order to do math. I took a class once on "manipulatives," and except for the base 10 blocks, I could see no actual use for any of the "manipulatives" we used, and, in fact, I wanted to claw my eyes out by the end of the day. I do understand, now, base 10 blocks, and cuisenaire rods, and I see how they could be useful *for some children.*

[Slache]

 

[Green Bean]

On 5/9/2022 at 9:34 AM, Servant4Christ said:

You bought VideoText?! How do you like it? I've been trying to decide between this or a combo of Foersters Algebra and Jacobs Geometry for highschool.

Absolutely hated it! We lasted 2 days before calling it dead. It was so confusing, not enough practice, and zero review. So many pages and parts was irritating. But mostly it was head scratching confusing. I’m glad MP has a return policy cause VT was exorbitantly expensive. We are Saxon all the way now.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Green Bean

[Servant4Christ]

6 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Absolutely hated it! We lasted 2 days before calling it dead. It was so confusing., not enough practice, and zero review. So many pages and parts was irritating. But mostly it was head scratching confusing. I’m glad MP has a return policy cause VT was exorbitantly expensive. We are Saxon all the way now.

Eek! That's so odd because it is supposed to be highly recommended by Jay Wiles. Guess I'll be looking into Foersters and Jacobs! Thanks

[EKS]

21 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Absolutely hated it!

We used VideoText for a while too.  It was pretty bad.  Jacobs was a breath of fresh air.

[Green Bean]

3 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

Eek! That's so odd because it is supposed to be highly recommended by Jay Wiles. Guess I'll be looking into Foersters and Jacobs! Thanks

Yeah, I thought it a strange choice for MP. The book they were using has gone out of print.

[silver]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:17 PM, Green Bean said:

Thank you!

WOW! That Pre-Algebra book price is eye popping! The others seem reasonable. I will check them out.

I used the student edition of Dolciani Pre-Algebra. I got the student one for $7 two years ago. There are so many problems that just doing the odds and using the answer key at the back for them is fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Pre-Algebra-Accelerated-Course-Dolciani/dp/039543050X/

 

ETA: Amazon says this is the edition I bought (mine has the same cover as the above link):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0395359872/

Edited May 15, 2022 by silver