Does getting older make you angrier?

[GracieJane]

Someone told me that menopause make you lose the „gentle“ hormones that encourage kindness. Is this true? Do women get angrier with age? 

[Rosie_0801]

I think women get angrier with poor treatment, and there's such a lot of that around.

[regentrude]

Too simplistic. Yes and no.

Perimenopause can cause irrational anger. Like PMS only a gazillion times worse. Once hormones have settled in actual menopause,  that goes away. Many old women are very gentle.

One thing, probably unrelated to hormones and more to stage of life: at that point, many women lose their tolerance for bullshit. Time runs out. No more f$@%s to give.

[Pawz4me]

I've lost a lot of my tolerance for BS and am much more apt to speak my mind than my younger self was. But I don't think that equals angrier. In many ways (I think) I'm much kinder and more empathetic than when I was younger. So, yeah . . too simplistic.

[freesia]

No, I don't think so.  I am less prone to loose my temper than when I was younger for sure.  I'm at the end of going though menopause and feel more chill than ever (well except over recent politics but it's limited to that.)  I haven't quite "found my voice" and stopped caring what others think as some say happens.  But I don't think that is being angry.  I have seen, though, that when I have "found my voice," I've been pressured to "be nice."  That was a situation where I felt someone was shaming others and I called it out.  I wasn't angry though, but some of my friends did feel threatened and wanted me to stop while not addressing it with the woman who was doing it.  That was really frustrating.  I think that women voicing their opinions are often perceived as angry in a way that men aren't.  So, do I think older women state their opinions more? Yes, absolutely.  Is that an expression of anger? No, but folks who aren't used to it sometimes interpret it as such.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What gentle hormones encourage kindness?  

[freesia]

17 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What gentle hormones encourage kindness?  

ooo good question!

[J-rap]

I don't think it has anything to do with hormones, but I find that the older I get, the more patience I have with people.  I've learned that if I were in their shoes, I'd probably be acting the same way.  And life is hard. 

[freesia]

1 minute ago, J-rap said:

I don't think it has anything to do with hormones, but I find that the older I get, the more patience I have with people.  I've learned that if I were in their shoes, I'd probably be acting the same way.  And life is hard. 

I also am more apt to think that I don't know the whole story.  Experience has taught me that things are not always what they seem and sometimes we make decisions we never would have imagined ever making when we were young and things seemed simple.

[Danae]

Alzheimer’s and some other forms of dementia cause anger.  I think that’s further along the aging process than you mean, though.

[Katy]

Some people become bitter, male and female.  Sometimes due to abuse, sometimes due to personality.

Dementia causes anger, and anger is often the first symptom.

Menopause does not cause anger, but I do think at the point you're in menopause you're frequently speaking to women with young adult know-it-all phase children, spouses who are losing their health, and parents who are needing increasing care. This is wearing to people who frequently are caregivers with loose boundaries.  At some point anyone in that position must develop the ability to do what is right for them and make ungrateful adult children take care of themselves.

There's a book about different stages of women's lives and how the feelings are normal.  I think it's Passages, by Gail something last name starts with an S I think.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Katy

[Jean in Newcastle]

One thing I will say is that when I was younger, I was less sure of myself. I worried more about how I came across to others. Middle age has given me confidence. Some people equate confidence in women with anger or aggressiveness. I think that they are wrong. 
 

Another thing is that as a Christian, gentleness is a fruit of the Spirit. It is not gender based and it certainly isn’t hormonal. 

[Tanaqui]

Sometimes I lose my temper more easily when I have PMS. The fact that I lost my temper might be related to the hormones (and the cramps) - but that doesn't mean that whatever I was angry about wasn't real.

Those things were real. I just didn't deal with them when I was feeling better.

Some people may be more prone to anger or sadness when they're in menopause. However, it is a mistake to think that because the menopause is causing the emotions to be stronger, that means that the menopause is *causing* those feelings. That *might* be true for some people - but I wouldn't depend on it.

[Catwoman]

I am a lot nicer now than I was when I was younger.

Terrifying thought, I know... 😉 

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What gentle hormones encourage kindness?  

Oxytocin

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think women get angrier with poor treatment, and there's such a lot of that around.

This. 

[teachermom2834]

I am very patient with people that just have hard circumstances or do things a different way. I’m not too opinionated and everything doesn’t have to be my way. 
 

However- doing things another way does not include stuff like putting the ice cube tray back in the freezer empty or leaving crumbs all over the counter. Those things are not acceptable ways of doing things and there may be rage. 
 

So I’m pretty Hakuna Matata don’t sweat the small stuff about a lot of things. But sometimes the anger over household annoyances can be a little much. 
 

So I do notice that I am angry about that kind of stuff a lot more than I used to. 

[KungFuPanda]

I think of it as the drugs wearing off. We’ve been doped up by nature to trick us into populating the planet and taking care of everyone. Now we’re thinking more clearly and don’t have the patience for everyone’s nonsense. I’ve decided to be a problem when I go through The Change. 😬

[Faith-manor]

I just don't take crap on the chin anymore. I have wised up. The larger picture is that women have been conditioned to be meek in this patriarchal system. So if they reach the place they are not willing to take it, they are then labeled angry, b$tchy, and a shrew even though it is perfectly acceptable for men to do the same.

I experienced that light bulb moment when I realized I had been culturally and religiously trained to put up with a boatload of manure, and it was long before menopause. So I don't think it had anything to do hormones. It was more to do with being able to really step back, see things for what they were, and have the courage to change and make my voice heard.

[marbel]

My mother became nicer the older she got. She always a pretty patient and nice person, but as an old woman she was very kind and not quarrelsome at all, though she did express her opinions.  My MIL is getting angrier and more bitter as she gets older. Of course I am biased, but of the two my mother had the much harder life yet she was much more gracious. Maybe having a hard life makes one more patient and understanding of others, I don't know. 

I think as all people get older, they lose their filters and become more like their true personality. Masks fall away, social/cultural expectations are ignored ("who cares what people think?"); that certainly may be anger, or perceived as anger by others. 

[Melissa Louise]

17 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I think of it as the drugs wearing off. We’ve been doped up by nature to trick us into populating the planet and taking care of everyone. Now we’re thinking more clearly and don’t have the patience for everyone’s nonsense. I’ve decided to be a problem when I go through The Change. 😬

Yeah, this too. 

Evolution kinda tricks us into being  self-sacrificing. Once the kids are done, though, that drops away. 

[gardenmom5]

No.  But their cortisol can go higher.

I've found aging makes a person "more" what they already were.

[Junie]

Certain medications can also change a person's personality.  As can pain.  Both of these affect older populations more so than younger ones.

[klmama]

That has not been my experience.  Since menopause, my moods are much more stable and calm, but less so when I'm ill, upset, or in pain.  

Those I've known who got angrier as they aged also had difficult physical, mental, or relational issues. 

[BeachGal]

4 hours ago, GracieJane said:

Someone told me that menopause make you lose the „gentle“ hormones that encourage kindness. Is this true? Do women get angrier with age? 

Oxytocin wanes as menopause approaches so that could contribute, I suppose.

I am in my late 50s and from what I’ve observed some elderly women are bitter and others are not at all. My parents died when I was young and the woman who was like a mother-mentor to me when I had my first child was not in the least bit bitter despite being elderly and having endured a difficult life. So, biology and circumstances can affect what a person feels but they aren't necessarily all that matters. An individual’s developed perspective can also influence how life is interpreted.

Personally, I do not want to treat people badly even if I believe, often wrongly, that they “deserve” it. When I do, I ultimately feel ashamed of myself. Now that my children are all adults, I have been trying to better develop my own perspective by reading, for now, mostly philosophy and religion in the hopes that I won’t morph into a discontent old woman and am finding it helpful.

[fraidycat]

No. But...

We've been conditioned in our society to bottle up anger and eventually that bottle overflows for some people.

Also, as mentioned above by other posters, lack of f$&ks for "falling in line" and caring about other people's opinions can be perceived as anger when we step out of the people pleaser role. Though our range of emotions is large, our ability to recognize, name and express them is rather miniscule in comparison - and that is within our own selves, never mind other people.

 

 

[Laura Corin]

I accept less poor treatment than I did - I feel my own worth.

On the other hand, I'm more touched by the distress of others.

Eta - at 97 my mother is much nicer than she was. She is less able to bear a grudge and more appreciative of the small things.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Junie]

Thanks for the chart, @fraidycat.  I tend to use the same words to describe my emotions and I think this will be helpful.

 

[Melissa Louise]

Angry and bitter aren't synonyms, just by the by. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have had a wide range of emotions, including crankiness all my life. I think that I have simultaneously learned to give myself some needed perspective at times while also learning how to express my displeasure (mostly appropriately) at times. I used to cry more when angry or frustrated, which was ineffective and frustrated me even more. 

[Carrie12345]

I worry about being labeled as angry in my later years. I worry about it now, too.  I am very *animated*. I talk loud, fast, and with my hands. When my emotions are heightened(anger being only one of those, and rarely), I talk louder, faster, and gesture more wildly.

It is perceived negatively. So I try to tone it down, which feels like play acting.

At 44, I get much less angry than I did at, say, 30. But animated = angry these days.

[Pawz4me]

8 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I just don't take crap on the chin anymore. I have wised up. The larger picture is that women have been conditioned to be meek in this patriarchal system. So if they reach the place they are not willing to take it, they are then labeled angry, b$tchy, and a shrew even though it is perfectly acceptable for men to do the same.

I experienced that light bulb moment when I realized I had been culturally and religiously trained to put up with a boatload of manure, and it was long before menopause. So I don't think it had anything to do hormones. It was more to do with being able to really step back, see things for what they were, and have the courage to change and make my voice heard.

I started reading Untamed last night and was simultaneously thinking about this thread. And the notion that women are conditioned to be meek and to value pleasing others way above pleasing--or protecting--themselves certainly rings true. For me as I've aged (past menopause) and seen more of the circle of life and how precious (and hard!!) it is, the more I've come to value my own place in the world. I can't say how much, if any, has to do with hormones and how much is plain old lived experience. I do realize some lucky women seem to reach this place of enlightenment much earlier than I did, and they're sometimes younger women who haven't lived hard or particularly eventful lives. So . . who knows?

I think women have been conditioned to blame their hormones for lots and lots of things. Who among us who's over 12 or so hasn't had that happen? Who first started conditioning us to do that? I'm guessing it was men who started it, and then women assumed it was true w/o critically examining it (until recently, maybe). In the Old Testament we were considered unclean and were essentially banished while menstruating. Who among us hasn't had a boyfriend/SO/husband ask, when we complain about something, "It's that time of the month, isn't it?" Like if it is that means whatever they did/didn't do isn't a problem or an issue. It's all on our hormones, not them. Convenient, isn't it?

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

I think women have been conditioned to blame their hormones for lots and lots of things. Who among us who's over 12 or so hasn't had that happen? 

No , I never had that happen when it wasn't justified. PMS and PMDD are absolutely real and crippling. I never had PMS for the decades I was using hormonal birth control, but once I stopped, the period related mood swings were intense and definitely noticeable to my DH, and rightly so. With perimenopause, they became seriously concerning, and I periodically turned into an insane bitch. I am not using the word "insane" lightly - furious anger and deep dark despair that made me lose the will to live.
I am grateful for DH being sensitive to this and occasionally pointing out that, maybe, my absolute devastation and feeling of hopelessness could just be hormonal, because he was right - usually three days later I became sane again. It helped me recognize a pattern. I ended up writing my future self a letter for the following month, to tell myself that this will pass and is just hormone induced insanity and I don't actually want to die.

Nope, this is not something society has conditioned me to. If you have never had intense mental health issues surrounding your period, count yourself blessed. It is not fun and can lead to a serious crisis.

Edited November 11, 2021 by regentrude

[Lady Florida.]

I don't think so and I'm fully post menopausal. I do speak up for myself more but that started before peri-menopause. To some people woman speaking up for herself = angry woman so maybe that's where the idea comes from that older women are angry. They can't take it when a women isn't so meek she lets herself be a doormat.*

*I don't mean this as younger women allow themselves to be walked on. However, if many women realize they need to be heard as they get older some people can see that as angry older women.

[Lady Florida.]

8 hours ago, BeachGal said:

 

Personally, I do not want to treat people badly even if I believe, often wrongly, that they “deserve” it. When I do, I ultimately feel ashamed of myself. Now that my children are all adults, I have been trying to better develop my own perspective by reading, for now, mostly philosophy and religion in the hopes that I won’t morph into a discontent old woman and am finding it helpful.

One thing I refuse to do is dump on younger generations, especially millennials who get mocked incessantly. Gen Z gets some of the spillover from their previous generation. I know things are different. I know it's much harder for those two groups than it was for my generation. I refuse to compare their situation to mine and call them all the derogatory names they're being called.

[HS Mom in NC]

Being menopausal comes around the same time as long term perspective and wisdom arrive.  That's why our BS tolerance gets lower. It even happens at this age to women who, when much younger, had to give up their ovaries and the hormones that came with them for medical reasons.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, regentrude said:

One thing, probably unrelated to hormones and more to stage of life: at that point, many women lose their tolerance for bullshit. Time runs out. No more f$@%s to give.

This is me, 100%, though I *do* think hormones have an influence. My theory was that when I had more estrogen, I had more sensitivity to if other people were happy/comfortable or not. Now I have less and I’m much more likely to say, or at least think, “You’re not happy with that? Oh well…” 

I feel like I wasted all of my twenties and half my thirties prioritizing other people’s comfort and happiness above my own. I’m really glad I am no longer like that. Honestly, I don’t bother with “friends” who need kid-glove handling anymore. Screw that; I’d rather spend my limited time with people I don’t have to struggle to get along with. 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

One thing I refuse to do is dump on younger generations, especially millennials who get mocked incessantly. Gen Z gets some of the spillover from their previous generation. I know things are different. I know it's much harder for those two groups than it was for my generation. I refuse to compare their situation to mine and call them all the derogatory names they're being called.

Agree. I always find the millennial-bashing pretty strange. Most of the millennial-aged people I know are outstanding and I admire them. A couple of my nieces and nephews are among the most interesting and accomplished people I know. 

[GailV]

Peri menopause was a wild ride due to not only hormones, as many have mentioned, but sleep deprivation.

Overall, older people have lower quality of sleep. Some of it is due to the change in quantity of neurotransmitters (hormones). More chronic pain issues lead to problems with sleep, plus can just make you irritable.

I've read research that loss of cognitive ability makes people cranky. I assume this has to do with frustration and fear. 

For me, there are huge swathes of life I no longer care that much about.  In ways that makes me more placid, partially because I no longer simmer and stew about little things  until I blow up.  Also, I have figured out how to sleep better, and with fewer people in the house it's easier to take a nap.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

13 hours ago, freesia said:

I also am more apt to think that I don't know the whole story.  Experience has taught me that things are not always what they seem and sometimes we make decisions we never would have imagined ever making when we were young and things seemed simple.

Yes! This is so true, but I think it's only true of people who choose not to build their own echo chambers in media and social circles. I know people who say they've gotten more black and white in their thinking as they've aged and others like me who often see the world as far more complex and nuanced than I used to.

[MEmama]

30 minutes ago, Quill said:

This is me, 100%, though I *do* think hormones have an influence. My theory was that when I had more estrogen, I had more sensitivity to if other people were happy/comfortable or not. Now I have less and I’m much more likely to say, or at least think, “You’re not happy with that? Oh well…” 

I feel like I wasted all of my twenties and half my thirties prioritizing other people’s comfort and happiness above my own. I’m really glad I am no longer like that. Honestly, I don’t bother with “friends” who need kid-glove handling anymore. Screw that; I’d rather spend my limited time with people I don’t have to struggle to get along with. 

And as a result I think there can be a lot of regrets around those priorities we made, as well as burn out. I keep hearing myself tell my cat that I just.can’t with her demands; some days I am completely and totally spent. That truth is not doing great things in my household, but simultaneously I don’t give much of a f*ck either. 
 

Probably to a certain person I can appear angry, but in reality I feel more free from everyone else’s burdens. 

[Indigo Blue]

I don’t want to become bitter when I’m old (barring mental changes that are out of my control).  I want to try my best to stay self aware of that. I do welcome becoming wiser and not putting up with nonsense, however. 

I would be happiest around people whom I can trust and with whom I can be myself, instead of someone who is a mix of prickly vs nice, leaving me always unsure of where I stand. Getting older has taught me I can do this if I want and it’s okay.  
 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Indigo Blue

[elegantlion]

I'm much less angry and more patient than I was years ago, I'm in my mid-50s - fully in menopause due to hysterectomy. I'm also not prone to taking bs from people. SO and I have never had a fight, we've had to talk through some challenges, but we're both amazed that we don't fight. I think it's age as much as compatability. I'm more willing to let things go, now. 

I do have to watch for some bitterness but again that is more about life situations rather than hormones.  

I do know that I'm in a better mood not having to deal with wonky periods. From 37 to my surgery last, they varied so much. It sucked to make plans - vacations - etc. when I wasn't sure if this month would be light or a blow out. I'd feel sick at least once a month, bloated, gross, and edgy. Surgery has given me the freedom to now worry about that, which along has improved my mood. 

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

I do know that I'm in a better mood not having to deal with wonky periods. From 37 to my surgery last, they varied so much. It sucked to make plans - vacations - etc. when I wasn't sure if this month would be light or a blow out. I'd feel sick at least once a month, bloated, gross, and edgy. Surgery has given me the freedom to now worry about that, which along has improved my mood. 

This, too. It's not just the hormones that make periods stressful - it's the uncontrolled hemorrhaging and the cramps.
If men had periods, we'd have monthly period leave.

[Faith-manor]

18 minutes ago, regentrude said:

This, too. It's not just the hormones that make periods stressful - it's the uncontrolled hemorrhaging and the cramps.
If men had periods, we'd have monthly period leave.

If men had periods, they would have either laid down and died or by now, come up with major treatment plans that work. Seriously, except for breast cancer research, women's health issues have lagged, lagged, lagged, and we still have thyroid and other treatments based exclusively on the average male body. So ya, I figure if dh had had to deal with this since he was 11, he would have been begging for his ovaries to be taken out by the time he was 12, and the medical community would have listened because we just can't have men suffering like that! 

Too much misogyny in medicine.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, elegantlion said:

I'm much less angry and more patient than I was years ago, I'm in my mid-50s - fully in menopause due to hysterectomy. I'm also not prone to taking bs from people. SO and I have never had a fight, we've had to talk through some challenges, but we're both amazed that we don't fight. I think it's age as much as compatability. I'm more willing to let things go, now. 

I do have to watch for some bitterness but again that is more about life situations rather than hormones.  

I do know that I'm in a better mood not having to deal with wonky periods. From 37 to my surgery last, they varied so much. It sucked to make plans - vacations - etc. when I wasn't sure if this month would be light or a blow out. I'd feel sick at least once a month, bloated, gross, and edgy. Surgery has given me the freedom to now worry about that, which along has improved my mood. 

I get that feeling twice a month— my period every 3 weeks for a week, and then ovulation that often knocks me off my feet for several days, only to start all over again the following week. Of course if I mention my misery (hello, I’m literally curled up on the couch basically unable to walk I’m in such pain), DH will begin to suffer in some mysterious way as well so nothing gets done unless I fight through. Because of course. 😡

I'm hoping my gyno will recommend a hysterectomy for my fibroids so I can just be done with this already.

[Spryte]

11 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I worry about being labeled as angry in my later years. I worry about it now, too.  I am very *animated*. I talk loud, fast, and with my hands. When my emotions are heightened(anger being only one of those, and rarely), I talk louder, faster, and gesture more wildly.

It is perceived negatively. So I try to tone it down, which feels like play acting.

At 44, I get much less angry than I did at, say, 30. But animated = angry these days.

You have just described my DS. Perfectly. He is always animated, and even more so when any emotion comes into play — positive, negative, any at all. He fills every room, in a big way. We try to remind him to tone it down—and slow down—when it seems appropriate.

Now I wonder if he feels he’s play acting when he tones it down. He must. Oh my. 

I need to think more about this.

 

[Spryte]

Not angrier, here. More mellow. I let more things slide, I think. I don’t want to take any BS either so I’m more likely to walk away from situations to preserve my own peace.

[Carrie12345]

47 minutes ago, Spryte said:

You have just described my DS. Perfectly. He is always animated, and even more so when any emotion comes into play — positive, negative, any at all. He fills every room, in a big way. We try to remind him to tone it down—and slow down—when it seems appropriate.

Now I wonder if he feels he’s play acting when he tones it down. He must. Oh my. 

I need to think more about this.

 

I sure don’t know the right answer, lol. I think it’s important to be aware of how things are perceived by others. But of course I also want “my people” to be okay with me being me. And knowing the difference between me being angry and me being whatever I actually am.

I don’t mind being asked to calm down a bit, kindly, because I’m well aware I can sometimes escalate with no signs of topping out, lol. But I get very bummed when I find out it was taken as anger. 

[Spryte]

3 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I sure don’t know the right answer, lol. I think it’s important to be aware of how things are perceived by others. But of course I also want “my people” to be okay with me being me. And knowing the difference between me being angry and me being whatever I actually am.

I don’t mind being asked to calm down a bit, kindly, because I’m well aware I can sometimes escalate with no signs of topping out, lol. But I get very bummed when I find out it was taken as anger. 

Yes! He gets upset about that, too. He’s not prone to anger, just over the top excitement. I mostly only tell him to tone things down if DH is on a business call, for volume reasons.

Didn’t mean to hijack, OP, just got excited about reading someone describing my DS. It’s really interesting to hear another perspective on this!