Help me make holiday decisions (Covid related)

[Carol in Cal.]

The likelihood of a 4YO getting Covid is quite low, so I think you could consider going.

Having said that, by the time the GPs shop for presents, go to church services that very likely have many attendees who are usually not present, and maybe attend other seasonal parties/events, they will be exposed to all kinds of illnesses, including Covid, flu, and colds, that they would not normally encounter.  So the risk of them being sick themselves is higher than normal.  Do you have confidence that they would call Christmas off if they were ill?  It doesn’t sound like they would.  Bottom line—I wouldn’t worry much about your kids getting Covid, but I WOULD worry about them getting sick in general, and parse the situation relative to that.  Also, I wouldn’t worry at all about carrying Covid to the grandparents—you’re being far too careful for that to be likely, and they are endangering themselves all kinds of other, more dangerous ways already.

I think the propaganda around not masking is horrendous and irresponsible.  It’s too bad that they are falling for it.  Masking is truly physically hard on some people (I among them), but arguing that it is not helpful is flat out untrue, and it bothers me a great deal that that’s a narrative that some are promulgating.  Your parents have been brainwashed in that regard.  Just because something doesn’t work 100% of the time doesn’t mean it doesn’t help.  

Having said that, they are at an age where they might really need partial lip reading to understand what people are saying, due to age related hearing loss, and I wonder if that is part of the hidden subtext about them banning masks in their homes.  It can be unspoken if so.  In that case a transparent one might be a decent compromise.

I think that’s the direction I would head.  I’d say that we plan to wear transparent masks indoors, and if that is unacceptable we would wait until the weather is better to visit.  I wouldn’t spend the night, and if it was evident that someone was ill when we arrived, I’d say, “Sorry, I didn’t realize you were sick, we are going to leave to let you catch up on your rest,” and make that stick, absolutely.   That’s as far as I would go to compromise, and I’m one who values Big Family Christmas extremely highly.  And if you don’t want to compromise that far, I’d totally support that decision, personally.  Hugs, I’m sorry this is so ridiculously hard.

 

[SKL]

2 hours ago, TechWife said:

I don’t think emotionally healthy people think of their relationships like this. The grandparents are making a choice. No one lives in a vacuum. To assume their choices wouldn’t  impact the way others relate to them is shortsighted. Families have gotten into huge arguments over who gets Aunt Sally’s China cabinet after she dies. This is much more serious. 

We do ourselves a disadvantage when we think in terms of serious illness or deathwhen it comes to covid. We would all be angry if someone refused to take simple precautions and exposed our children to chicken pox or the flu. Covid is not different in that respect. I’m not sure when it became culturally acceptable to engage in behavior that puts the health of other people at risk. 

Actually I would not get angry if someone exposed my kids to chickenpox or flu.

There is nothing new or unusual about possibly exposing young children to bugs that are most likely to be mild for said young children.  (I am assuming that we aren't talking about the OP's parents knowingly being infected with Covid and having the kids over at that time.)

[Acadie]

I wonder if skipping the holiday routine and inviting them to a separate outdoor gathering might take some pressure off, so you don't feel like you have to choose between sacrificing your family's health and not seeing the grandparents at all. 

Could you invite them to do something new, on your own terms? Are there any outdoor Christmas lights things in your area, or a fun place to walk around outside? It could be outdoors, your family masked, whatever would be comfortable for you.

They are free to decline your invitation, and if they do that would be their choice. In that case I'd tell my kids we invited the grandparents and they said no. Oh well, maybe next year. You don't have to accept their blame--you can reframe the way you talk about this in your mind and in your family. You invite, they can accept or decline, and you respect their decision. If they try to blame you, you can say you were hoping you could get together at ____, but you respect their choice. Repeat if needed. Say the conversation is over and hang up if needed. The indoor gathering doesn't work for you this year, end of story. 

I know they did not respect your boundaries when you got together earlier, so it's possible there's no gathering that will actually work. But maybe there is an outdoor holiday thing that would be appealing and possible to offer in a way that's comfortable for you. No way would I go to their house--they've made very clear on their turf they have no intention of respecting your boundaries. That's a harmful space for you and your family to be in, not just in terms of physical health but emotional health as well.

You have the power to change it and model a new dynamic for respectful relationships with your kids, which can only benefit your relationships with them as they get older.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by Acadie

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Idalou said:

But you are saying things the OP did not say. She is not asking for Zero Risk, she's asking for them to put a mask over their face, or at least act like a decent person if they choose to mask. You have chosen to respond with a falsehood, because she isnt insisting on that. Now if you are saying you'd never keep your kids away, that being a zero risk, then that's a different story. You must understand this.

You don't want to lose your mom over something that is deemed low risk, but what if a grandparent is selfish enough to perhaps pass away before seeing their grandchild because they will not put a mask over their face holes?

FTR my comments came before the original poster's clarification that her parents would refuse all mitigation measures during the visit and attack OP's family for masking etc.

Re-read the OP.  It seems more in agreement with me than not.  She was leaning toward visiting.  They visited last year without vaccines.  She views the current risk as very low.  But she wonders if very low is low enough.  I personally think it is, because we're talking about grandparents here.  But she is obviously free to choose differently.

Ultimately, it isn't that long before the 4.5yo can get vaccinated, and maybe it's worth just putting off the visit until then.  Of course, the risk still will not be zero.  Will it ever be low enough really?

PS my mom does not mask in her own home either, and I do not call her selfish and I don't appreciate you doing so either.  She is my mother and I'm going to miss her terribly when she passes.  How she personally weighs Covid risks does not erase a whole lifetime of motherhood.  My goodness.

[SKL]

Personally I take a risk every time I drive to my parents' house in winter weather.  The roads can be incredibly hazardous.  If I only ever visited when it wasn't risky, we'd have to do Christmas in July.  But that would be weird and wrong.

We'll have to agree to disagree on how parents address risks for their kids.  There are risks involved in avoiding traditional relationships too.

[TechWife]

18 minutes ago, SKL said:

Personally I take a risk every time I drive to my parents' house in winter weather.  The roads can be incredibly hazardous.  If I only ever visited when it wasn't risky, we'd have to do Christmas in July.  But that would be weird and wrong.

We'll have to agree to disagree on how parents address risks for their kids.  There are risks involved in avoiding traditional relationships too.

This isn't about risk avoidance. It's about the OP asking for input as she makes the best decision for her one family. Missing a holiday during a pandemic isn't avoiding a traditional relationship. You are misrepresenting what the OP has said and what everyone else has said as well.

[SKL]

18 minutes ago, TechWife said:

This isn't about risk avoidance. It's about the OP asking for input as she makes the best decision for her one family. Missing a holiday during a pandemic isn't avoiding a traditional relationship. You are misrepresenting what the OP has said and what everyone else has said as well.

Am I not entitled to an opinion?

The OP knows what the facts are.  There is no danger of her somehow misunderstanding what she has to decide because I said something about "zero risk."

It makes me really angry when people call me a liar.  Is it not enough to disagree with my risk analysis without calling me a liar?

[TechWife]

39 minutes ago, SKL said:

Actually I would not get angry if someone exposed my kids to chickenpox or flu.

There is nothing new or unusual about possibly exposing young children to bugs that are most likely to be mild for said young children.  (I am assuming that we aren't talking about the OP's parents knowingly being infected with Covid and having the kids over at that time.)

The thing is - when you're infected with many of these illnesses, you don't know about it, at least initially. That's how they all spread, including covid. Chicken pox and flu don't appear out of the blue, they are transmitted person to person. Refusal to mitigate the possibility of contracting and spreading an illness by refusing an effective vaccine doesn't lend itself to me believing that the people doing so would otherwise care to take other reasonable steps to prevent spreading an illness.

I have no problem hanging out with people who don't vaccinate for legitimate health or genuine religious reasons because I think they are also likely to be cautious re: their exposure to relevant illnesses.

People who put mistaken ideology above their health and the health of others are much less likely to take reasonable steps to prevent an illness, IMO. If you don't care, you don't care.

 

[TechWife]

40 minutes ago, SKL said:

Am I not entitled to an opinion?

The OP knows what the facts are.  There is no danger of her somehow misunderstanding what she has to decide because I said something about "zero risk."

It makes me really angry when people call me a liar.  Is it not enough to disagree with my risk analysis without calling me a liar?

You mentioned that there are risks in avoiding traditional relationships, and that does misrepresent the decision the OP is faced with because she is not asking about avoiding a relationship, nor has anyone else suggested she avoid a relationship. We are talking about one event on one day in one year during a pandemic.

Otherwise, I'm wondering if we are misunderstanding each other. You mentioned not driving in bad weather because doing so would be risky - but that it would also severely limit your ability to see your family so you choose to see your family and take a risk. That presents a misrepresentation - a false dichotomy - there are more than the two choices of taking a risk and avoiding a risk.

You can choose to see your parents in months where bad weather is common, which increases the likelihood that roads will be bad, but there's a difference between going when there are actively dangerous weather conditions and going on a relatively sunny day with little chance of precipitation. I can easily see that might be something you would do -  pick a good weather day to travel and avoid traveling during bad weather (good & bad being relative to your area, of course). That doesn't mean you are choosing or not choosing risky behavior. It means you're making an educated decision, which is what the OP is trying to do.

Choices brings the communal aspect of disease prevention into play, which has been discussed on this forum at length. There is a difference between doing or not doing something that puts yourself or your own family at risk than and doing or not doing something that puts other people at risk. If someone is engaging in behavior that puts me at risk, should I not know about it and have the opportunity to decide whether or not I want to take that risk? That is what the OP is deciding about. She knows a risk exists & is weighing whether or not to expose herself & family to the risk & if so, whether or not any precautions they take would help protect them from the illness. She isn't deciding whether or not to expose her family to covid - she's deciding if she should bring them into a situation where it's possible they would be exposed, what they can/can't do to mitigate exposure if they decide to go. It isn't necessarily an either/or. It can be a both/and.

We do ourselves a disservice when we reduce covid exposure to a die/not die scenario or a get very ill/get a little ill scenario. Those scenarios also present a false dichotomy where the situation is misrepresented. It's much more complex than that. Are people willing to acknowledge that others may get very ill or die because of their actions or inaction? Very complex & off topic for the thread.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by TechWife

[SKL]

13 minutes ago, TechWife said:

You mentioned that there are risks in avoiding traditional relationships, and that does misrepresent the decision the OP is faced with because she is not asking about avoiding a relationship, nor has anyone else suggested she avoid a relationship. We are talking about one event on one day in one year during a pandemic.

Otherwise, I'm wondering if we are misunderstanding each other. You mentioned not driving in bad weather because doing so would be risky - but that it would also severely limit your ability to see your family so you choose to see your family and take a risk. That presents a misrepresentation - a false dichotomy - there are more than the two choices of taking a risk and avoiding a risk.

You can choose to see your parents in months where bad weather is common, which increases the likelihood that roads will be bad, but there's a difference between going when there are actively dangerous weather conditions and going on a relatively sunny day with little chance of precipitation. I can easily see that might be something you would do -  pick a good weather day to travel and avoid traveling during bad weather (good & bad being relative to your area, of course). That doesn't mean you are choosing or not choosing risky behavior. It means you're making an educated decision, which is what the OP is trying to do.

Choices brings the communal aspect of disease prevention into play, which has been discussed on this forum at length. There is a difference between doing or not doing something that puts yourself or your own family at risk than and doing or not doing something that puts other people at risk. If someone is engaging in behavior that puts me at risk, should I not know about it and have the opportunity to decide whether or not I want to take that risk? That is what the OP is deciding about. She knows a risk exists & is weighing whether or not to expose herself & family to the risk & if so, whether or not any precautions they take would help protect them from the illness. She isn't deciding whether or not to expose her family to covid - she's deciding if she should bring them into a situation where it's possible they would be exposed, what they can/can't do to mitigate exposure if they decide to go. It isn't necessarily an either/or. It can be a both/and.

We do ourselves a disservice when we reduce covid exposure to a die/not die scenario or a get very ill/get a little ill scenario. Those scenarios also present a false dichotomy where the situation is misrepresented. It's much more complex than that. Are people willing to acknowledge that others may get very ill or die because of their actions or inaction? Very complex & off topic for the thread.

You read all kinds of meanings and intentions into my words, and then accuse me of dishonesty.

That said, there is a clear undertone in many posts of "not now, not ever, because we don't like the way Grandma thinks.  Grandma isn't a good person.  Grandma doesn't care."  That goes beyond a consideration of what is safe for this family this Christmas.  But I'm not allowed to respond to that.

OP, do what you want, I really do not care.  Shame on me.  I know my opinion is unwelcome here.

[KSera]

34 minutes ago, SKL said:

That said, there is a clear undertone in many posts of "not now, not ever, because we don't like the way Grandma thinks.  Grandma isn't a good person.  Grandma doesn't care."  That goes beyond a consideration of what is safe for this family this Christmas.

This is an actual thing in some situations, though. Outside of the pandemic, smoking or drinking behaviors are examples of times people might have to make similar decisions. If my parents smoked and insisted on lighting up in my house and would not go outside to do so so as not to expose my children (or myself) to their smoke, they wouldn’t be able to come over. Nor would I take my kids to their smoky house. In this case grandma being unwilling to take a rapid test or even have other people mask in her house is, honestly, grandma not being a good person in this circumstance. There’s no reasonable excuse for it. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

This is an actual thing in some situations, though. Outside of the pandemic, smoking or drinking behaviors are examples of times people might have to make similar decisions. If my parents smoked and insisted on lighting up in my house and would not go outside to do so so as not to expose my children (or myself) to their smoke, they wouldn’t be able to come over. Nor would I take my kids to their smoky house. In this case grandma being unwilling to take a rapid test or even have other people mask in her house is, honestly, grandma not being a good person in this circumstance. There’s no reasonable excuse for it. 

Right. This is a grandparent that won't even let the family mask inside when no one else is masked, and isn't being asked to do so.

We had a child that had to spend two years rather isolated to keep him healthy so his heart condition could stabilize. My parents back in 1999 when masking was most definitely not a thing would wear KN95s at work, at church, in the grocery store, you name it. They did not hug other people or shake hands. They washed their hands religiously. They did not want to bring anything to DS if taking reasonable mitigations could prevent it, and they wanted to do that for ds. The grandparents in the OP's situatiom really don't give a fig. That is not an attitude I would be willing to deal with on a holiday, especially one so important to kids. Zoom works. Phones work. Facebook chat works. 

And for the record, because my father in law smoked a pack a day in his house. We stopped going there. He was not welcome at our house unless he smoked outside and never with the kids around. He was also a horrible driver so we had a rule that our children could not be in the car with him when he drove. My niece is not welcome anywhere near us because of her drug use and alcoholism because we are not willing to be the reason she heads out driving under the influence, which by the way, she does all the time! 😠 

[katilac]

4 hours ago, Acadie said:

I wonder if skipping the holiday routine and inviting them to a separate outdoor gathering might take some pressure off, so you don't feel like you have to choose between sacrificing your family's health and not seeing the grandparents at all. 

Could you invite them to do something new, on your own terms? Are there any outdoor Christmas lights things in your area, or a fun place to walk around outside? It could be outdoors, your family masked, whatever would be comfortable for you.

I like this idea, because I think seeing them for the holidays is going to be incredibly stressful no matter what and that they are being incredibly disrespectful to you and your family by refusing to do even things that don't affect them, like running air purifiers or opening windows. I don't need extra stress on Christmas and I don't want to model accepting disrespect and manipulation to my children. 

You would have to gauge what you are comfortable with - we didn't mask outside even before we were vaxxed, but the people we were with outside for longer periods of time took some precautions, didn't refuse to mask inside, etc. If they aren't likely to be holding the four-year-old for long periods of time, I'd probably be okay with outside events. I'd warn the kids ahead of time that we were doing X event outside only, bc it sounds like your parents are very likely to try and change the plans when everyone shows up. "No, we're not going to the buffet instead, we're going to walk around and look at the displays and then eat a picnic lunch. We're going to get started, are you joining us?"

[Bambam]

If cases were very low in their area + staying low, I might consider a very very short visit - but ONLY if I wanted to go. The fact your DH is against it (is that right?) would tip me over into the not-doing side. 

If cases were very low in their area + staying low, I might consider (if your DH was okay with it) inviting them over for a specific amount of time, we will eat from 11-12:30, open presents till 1:30, and then you will need to leave (I don't have a problem putting end times on stuff, but I know that not everyone is okay with that).  I would have the windows open, air filters, etc - but I also live where it is quite likely to be an okay temperature for that. It may not be where you are.

But the fact they are willing to make absolutely no accommodations for you, even to the point of telling you, an adult, what you can and cannot do, is over the top for me.  And that, in the past, they have ignored the boundaries you've put on their interactions with the kids. So for me, I just wouldn't go regardless of any risks. Because I don't want that sort of relationship, and I don't want my kids to see to hold my position on important issues *except* I cave when it comes to my parents. That's not the example I want my kids to see and emulate in the future.  If that means I never seen my parents again, to me, that is a choice/behavior that they made. Now if there are medical/mental health/Alzheimer diagnosis involved in this, I might have to rethink, but I am assuming your parents are mentally capable, just making choices you don't agree with. We make allowances for relatives, sure, but they make allowances for us too. That's how it works. I give a little, you give a little. You want me to give everything and you give absolutely nothing and probably abuse me for what I believe. Just distasteful. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Bambam

[Janeway]

You say quarantining is not an option for you this year leading in to the holidays. Well, that means you are seeing other people. If you are seeing other people but then banning the grandparents, then that sounds more like it is about the fight than about Covid. Either isolate from everyone or no one. 

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, Janeway said:

You say quarantining is not an option for you this year leading in to the holidays. Well, that means you are seeing other people. If you are seeing other people but then banning the grandparents, then that sounds more like it is about the fight than about Covid. Either isolate from everyone or no one. 

Did you read all of @Moonhawk's posts in this thread? Your comment makes no sense at all, based on what she has told us about this situation. Perhaps once you have read the entire thread, you will come back and post again. 🙂

[KSera]

9 minutes ago, Janeway said:

You say quarantining is not an option for you this year leading in to the holidays. Well, that means you are seeing other people. If you are seeing other people but then banning the grandparents, then that sounds more like it is about the fight than about Covid. Either isolate from everyone or no one. 

She’s seeing people who are mitigating risk with masks and other measures. The issue is the grandparents are unwilling to cooperate with any mitigation at all, including not even allowing others to mask in their house, which is crazy town to me. OP isn’t taking her unvaccinated 4 year old to visit any other unvaccinated, unmasked people indoors. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, KSera said:

She’s seeing people who are mitigating risk with masks and other measures. The issue is the grandparents are unwilling to cooperate with any mitigation at all, including not even allowing others to mask in their house, which is crazy town to me. OP isn’t taking her unvaccinated 4 year old to visit any other unvaccinated, unmasked people indoors. 

Yes, exactly. I feel like Janeway may not have read the entire thread before she posted, or perhaps she just skimmed the OP and missed some of the details.

[Idalou]

6 hours ago, SKL said:

FTR my comments came before the original poster's clarification that her parents would refuse all mitigation measures during the visit and attack OP's family for masking etc.

Re-read the OP.  It seems more in agreement with me than not.  She was leaning toward visiting.  They visited last year without vaccines.  She views the current risk as very low.  But she wonders if very low is low enough.  I personally think it is, because we're talking about grandparents here.  But she is obviously free to choose differently.

Ultimately, it isn't that long before the 4.5yo can get vaccinated, and maybe it's worth just putting off the visit until then.  Of course, the risk still will not be zero.  Will it ever be low enough really?

PS my mom does not mask in her own home either, and I do not call her selfish and I don't appreciate you doing so either.  She is my mother and I'm going to miss her terribly when she passes.  How she personally weighs Covid risks does not erase a whole lifetime of motherhood.  My goodness.

But I did not call your mother selfish! I repeated your view that you didn't want to lose a mother, because of course no one does so it's not even necessary to state,  but  asked to view the situation as if it was a grandmother that didn't care enough to mask... I was referring to the grandma in the OP. She is the one refusing to mask, I know you have not said your own mom refuses. So how on earth you think I meant your mom is a mystery to me. My apologies, though, but you are certainly not comprehending that my point was really only that you stated a falsehood about the OP and zero risk.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Idalou

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Idalou said:

But I did not call your mother selfish! I repeated your view that you didn't want to lose a mother, but what if it was a grandmother that didn't care enough to mask... I was referring to the grandma in the OP. She is the one refusing to mask, I know you have not said your own mom refuses. So how on earth you think I meant your mom is a mystery to me. My apologies, though, but you are certainly not comprehending that my point was really only that you stated a falsehood about the OP and zero risk.

I did not state a falsehood.  Even when I said zero risk (which actually, to any well-intentioned reader, clearly includes extremely small risk, since zero risk never could exist), I was talking about *myself,* not about the OP.

And I did say my mom does not mask in her own home.  And she is my kids' grandmother.  So yes, your generalization about selfish grandmothers included my mom, and probably other boardies' moms.

Your accusation that I am a liar is not made in good faith.  Please stop quoting me because I am trying to be done with this discussion.

[BlsdMama]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:10 AM, SKL said:

Objectively the risk for a healthy 4.5yo of being exposed to someone who "might" have been exposed to Covid is extremely tiny.  Reasonably cautious parents take much bigger risks with their 4yos every day.

Personally I would read this as the mom of the 4yo disciplining the grandparent rather than managing risk, but that is just my opinion.

A 4yo that is healthy is incredibly low risk.  My .02 as well.

[TechWife]

14 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

A 4yo that is healthy is incredibly low risk.  My .02 as well.

Low risk for what, though? Age doesn’t affect the virus transmission rate. 

 

[Faith-manor]

16 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

A 4yo that is healthy is incredibly low risk.  My .02 as well.

Tell that to the preschool 17 miles.from my house that has 42 out of 77 students age 3-4 out with covid, 3 children hospitalized, and has closed down for two weeks with an unvaxed, very much loved teacher on a ventilator. Teacher is going to be taken off the vent tomorrow. I know because she is the sister of one of my niece's baby fathers, an aunt to my great nieces.

[Pam in CT]

For me it would fundamentally amount to a relationship issue, not a COVID-specific issue. 

On 11/9/2021 at 1:30 PM, prairiewindmomma said:

If we take all of the covid issues and put them in a box and just look at---do I want to spend the holidays with these people who don't respect me, my wishes, or my previous choices, how do you feel?...

The issue would be their unwillingness to take basic risk mitigation measures (masking & ventilation) even though you've said such measures would make you more comfortable.  If they're unwilling to take such teeny tiny measures... their *words* that they really want to see the kids would, to me, be belied by their *actions.*  You really want to see someone, it is Not.A.Big.Deal. to put on a freaking mask and open the windows.  If that's too much to ask, then their desire to see the kids is pretty thin.

(And complaining when *others* wear a mask is completely beyond my comprehension. That is not a serious response within a loving/ reciprocal relationship.)

 

 

re inviting them to your household where you have more control over the protocols/ mitigation measures

On 11/9/2021 at 12:50 PM, Moonhawk said:

...They might be willing to come to our place if it means seeing the kids, where I could have doors open and air purifiers. I don't think they'd go for it but maybe if they're desperate enough. But DH probably wouldn't want them in the house, even with the purifiers. So I'll have to think about this. ...

That's how I would handle it if I were able to figure out protocols that my husband was reasonably OK with - maybe have them to take a rapid test on arrival before seeing the 4 yo, and open the windows and mask up except for eating.

 

And maybe @bolt. is right and they're highly unlikely to accept an invitation under those kinds of measures.  Dunno if you play hearts; this would amount to smoking the queen.  Are they, in fact, "desperate" to see the kids? 

On 11/9/2021 at 2:29 PM, bolt. said:

Since you are fairly sure they will refuse to come to your house for the visit... maybe I would invite them. This would change the narrative (because they have been invited and refused, therefore no one is keeping their grandkids from them) with only the slight chance of actually having the event occur. If they do come to your place for a visit, you can do all the things to minimize the risks.

But maybe they would. Hopefully they would. 

 

(( hugs ))   I'm so sorry so many families are wrestling with these kinds of troubles.

[Moonhawk]

Thank you everyone for your input.

My mom texted, "Let me know your plans for Thanksgiving. We are flexible." I replied , "Let's do FaceTime for Thanksgiving, and a watch party how about? I think the kids would have a lot of fun with that. Where we all watch the same movie together."

She hasn't responded, it's been over 24 hours. I'll call her tomorrow and pretend like all is well and we'll see how it goes.

For Christmas, DH and I discussed. We will invite them over either the weekend before Christmas or the 23rd (maybe 24th, depending on how they take the Thanksgiving news) and do our own cleaning/air purifiers where we feel comfortable. DH will probably not be in the house at the same time, we'll say he is doing his last minute Christmas shopping.

I'll also take the kids up to the city a couple weeks before Christmas and invite them to meet up in a park (about an hour from their house, as my excuse why we can't go to their house) so they can spend time with kids in an outdoor environment and visit as long as they want, but not have any "just come over" pressure, and take some of the traveling obligation off them (45 minutes of driving, a drive they do multiple times a week and can incorporate into their outings, vs 2 hours to nowhere).

[Pam in CT]

3 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

Thank you everyone for your input.

My mom texted, "Let me know your plans for Thanksgiving. We are flexible." I replied , "Let's do FaceTime for Thanksgiving, and a watch party how about? I think the kids would have a lot of fun with that. Where we all watch the same movie together."

She hasn't responded, it's been over 24 hours. I'll call her tomorrow and pretend like all is well and we'll see how it goes.

For Christmas, DH and I discussed. We will invite them over either the weekend before Christmas or the 23rd (maybe 24th, depending on how they take the Thanksgiving news) and do our own cleaning/air purifiers where we feel comfortable. DH will probably not be in the house at the same time, we'll say he is doing his last minute Christmas shopping.

I'll also take the kids up to the city a couple weeks before Christmas and invite them to meet up in a park (about an hour from their house, as my excuse why we can't go to their house) so they can spend time with kids in an outdoor environment and visit as long as they want, but not have any "just come over" pressure, and take some of the traveling obligation off them (45 minutes of driving, a drive they do multiple times a week and can incorporate into their outings, vs 2 hours to nowhere).

Excellent plans all around. You're a good daughter / mother / partner. 

Holidays are exasperating.

[katilac]

4 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

My mom texted, "Let me know your plans for Thanksgiving. We are flexible."  

Flexible? You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.