Jumping in as a junior

[Entropymama]

Hello! 

It's been six years since I've been around here, back when we sent all our kids to public school after ten years of homeschooling. Now my 16 yo has asked (and begged and pleaded) to be homeschooled and we have acquiesced. She just finished her first quarter of her junior year of HS. I'm scrambling to figure out how to finish this year with her, dealing with my own anxiety over making sure she's prepared for the future, and also excited to be back and to see some familiar names on the boards! 

I'll be combing through looking for specific help with curriculum, etc., but any words of advice on HS homeschooling in general? 8th grade is the highest I've done and I'm a bit intimidated. 

[Miss Tick]

Welcome back! Don't forget to check out all the pinned threads at the top of the high school board, with thanks to @Lori D.

[Lanny]

There are MANY things to do during the Junior and Senior years of high school          to get into a university.  SAT and/or ACT exams. Letters of Recommendation. Writing Esssays. Many other things. Take it one step at a time and do not panic.

[Lori D.]

Welcome back!

For homeschooling high school, the big changes for transitioning from homeschooling lower grades:
1. New need for record keeping and a transcript
2. New need for completing certain courses. If college is at all a future possibility, need for completing a "college prep" set of credits (# of courses at certain level of rigor in various subject areas to prepare the student to be able to handle college-level work, but also to meet college admission requirements)
3. New need for social interactions, extracurriculars, volunteering, etc. (both for the student's growth & interest, but also for applications)
4. New amount of time needed for non-academics -- learning to drive/getting a license, possible part time work, etc.
5. And by 11th grade -- the need for test prep (PSAT/ACT/SAT/AP), college search process...
 

First things to do:
1. Make sure you have options in case homeschooling is not working out (in other words, can the student return to high school and the credits earned from homeschooling will be accepted by the school, or can the student do online schooling, or dual enrollment, or other option)
2. Get a copy of her official high school transcript from the high school
3. Look up your state's homeschool regulations to see if you have any specific requirements for a high school student (such as required to complete certain credits, or meet with an educational overseer or provide a portfolio of student work for evaluation, etc.)
4. Also look at what resources your state homeschool organization might have available for explaining homeschooling high school. (If you are still in WA state, check out the High School page of the Washington Homeschool Organization website. They will also be able to point you towards extracurriculars.
5. Also, you might research dual enrollment (college courses taken while in high school that count simultaneously for credit on the high school AND college transcript). If you are still in WA state, you might look into the Running Start program.

Once you have DD's high school transcript, that will give you an idea of what credits to plan for completing 11th grade, and for doing 12th grade. And after filling in "required" credits, that also leaves room for some courses that would be of high interest to the student. While certain types of credits are "required", HOW you accomplish those credits can be very flexible. That allows you to tailor courses for your student's interests and strengths, and also to accomplish subjects that are NOT of interest to the student in a way that is much more palatable. 😉

A general set of college prep credits:
4 credits = English (usually 1/2 Lit. + 1/2 Writing, but other options, too)
4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, + 4th math with Alg. 2 as a pre-requisite)
3-4 credits = Science -- with labs (most colleges very flexible; a few want Biology & Chemistry)
3-4 credits = Social Sciences (most colleges want 1 credit = Amer. Hist. & 1 credit = World Hist./Geog.; some want 0.5 credit each Econ & Gov't)
2-4 credits = Foreign Language -- same language
1 credit = Fine Arts (performance/creation of music, theater, dance, art, film, digital arts, studio arts, etc.; or, appreciation/history)
4-8 credits = Electives (Computer, Logic, PE, Health, Bible/Religious Studies, Vocational-Tech, personal interest, additional Fine Arts credits, "Academic Electives" -- additional electives in the first 5 subjects above beyond the required amount)

Once you determine WHAT credits you will need for this year, then you can start thinking about how best to accomplish those credits. Take into consideration:
- What level and pace does your student need to work at -- advanced, regular, remedial...?
- What kind of learner is the student? How does the student best take in information and process?
- How available will you be to help mentor/tutor, and what resources would you need to help mentor/tutor?
- And also: what kinds of materials will work best for YOU as well as for your student -- textbooks? hands-on projects? DVD lessons? online class? 

Another questions: is the student ready for advanced work?
If so, look into dual enrollment as a possibility for the spring semester -- and you would need to do that NOW because it takes time to jump the hoops for applying/enrolling at the community college, taking their placement test, and then researching classes/instructors to register -- and the longer you wait, the more the "good" instructors and classes fill up...

That should be enough overview to get you started! Be sure to keep posting as you have specific questions about specific subject areas. 😄 

BEST of luck to you and DD as you finish the high school journey together at home! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Entropymama]

Thank you so much! 

This is all really helpful. I think my biggest challenge is that since she's been in public school for the last four years she's out of the whole WTM stream and so I'm not really able to just grab my WTM book and jump in at 11th grade. But it's fine, we're fine. 🙂

My biggest two questions - how do you do literature? I'm getting Writing Strands for the writing piece of her 11th grade English and I have plenty of books for her to read, but how do you facilitate discussion about the books? What about essays? I don't feel qualified to assign or grade essays. I do plan on having her do dual enrollment next year for English so I'm not too panicked but I want to get her a good foundation this year for community college level English next year. 

Second - grades! I have plenty of stuff for her to do, but am a little lost about which of it to grade. If she watches a documentary, do I give some kind of participation points? I'm actually a little worried about giving her grades that are too high since in elementary we just did the work and if it wasn't up to standard we did it again. We didn't really do grades. And record keeping... 

But this community is wonderful and I'm thankful for you all! 

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, Entropymama said:

...since she's been in public school for the last four years she's out of the whole WTM stream and so I'm not really able to just grab my WTM book and jump in at 11th grade..

I don't think most people on these boards ARE doing the whole WTM thing, so NO problem about getting info and advice from others on these boards about how to meet your student where she is and what to do to finish out 11th and 12th grades. 😉

2 hours ago, Entropymama said:

...how do you do literature? I'm getting Writing Strands for the writing piece of her 11th grade English and I have plenty of books for her to read, but how do you facilitate discussion about the books? What about essays? I don't feel qualified to assign or grade essays. I do plan on having her do dual enrollment next year for English so I'm not too panicked but I want to get her a good foundation this year for community college level English next year. ..

re: Writing
I am NOT a fan of Writing Strands, but if it's a good fit for this particular student, then more power to you. 😉 However, before you buy, you might research a bit, as a LOT of solid programs and online course providers have come out in the past 5-10 years.

If needing writing that is largely independent, consider:
- The Power in Your Hands -- independent-working student book + separate teacher book; covers a wide variety of types of writing; written in an informal friendly tone to the student; with writing assignments included
- Essentials in Writing -- video lesson-based; optional Scoring Service for a fee (full for the 2021/22 school year)
- The Lively Art of Writing + free go-along work pages created by WTMers Still Waters & mjbucks1
- Lantern English writing classes -- totally outsourced, online; includes instruction, assignment, & scoring -- $60 per 8-week course

An option: if wanting to have DD write about some of the literature she reads, you could consider hiring a local tutor to assign/grade writing. Also, check around and see if there is a homeschool co-op near you with a good quality high school writing (or writing + literature) class, and outsource the instruction / assignments / grading to the co-op teacher.

Whatever you go with for Writing, you want to make sure that by the end of high school, your student can:
- create a science lab report
- put together a power point or slideshow and an oral presentation (FREQUENT college class assignment)
- write a reader response
- generate a solid/complete thesis statement and build an argument of support for that thesis in the body of the essay
- write a variety of essay types
- research, know when & how to cite sources, and create full citations for a Works Cited page or Bibliography
- put all writing in format -- most common formats are MLA and APA style
- and familiarity with real-life writing (resume, cover letter, email etiquette, business letters, reports, memos, etc.)

re: Literature
Most people on these boards seem to either outsource the literature to an online class with a live discussion component. Or, they "DIY" by reading / discussing with their student.

For outsourcing, there are quite a few high quality online course providers, so just post a specific thread asking for recommendations if you are interested in going that direction for the spring semester. Again, registration is happening NOW for the spring, so you'd want to move on that quickly.

For "DIY" -- using a good individual lit. guide to go with some of the books can help by providing background info on the author/times, teaching info on literary devices and literature topics, and discussion questions that you can do together. That will also guide you through the process, and have assignment ideas. Or, have her select a discussion question from time to time to use as a prompt for a reader response paper. For grading, in advance, along with the assignment, give her a rubric, or checklist of what needs to be included, and then use that as a guide for awarding points. 

What kind of output/writing did DD do for her English classes at the high school? That will give you an idea of what level she is at, and whether you need to spend more time on literary analysis essays, or work on other types of writing instead. For example, a lot of homeschooled students are done with formal writing instruction by the end of 9th/10th grade, and the writing they do for the last 2 years of high school is longer, more complex essays, analysis of literature, research papers, practice for ACT test essays (the SAT just dropped their essay, so timed essay writing is becoming a thing of the past...) college application essays, etc. 

Also, looking at what DD has done in her past English classes will help you know what kinds of literature topics you may still need or want to cover with her.

What is the list of books you are interested in having her read this year? We might be able to come up with ideas for resources, guides, projects, etc. to help you out. 😉 

2 hours ago, Entropymama said:

... grades! I have plenty of stuff for her to do, but am a little lost about which of it to grade. If she watches a documentary, do I give some kind of participation points? I'm actually a little worried about giving her grades that are too high since in elementary we just did the work and if it wasn't up to standard we did it again. We didn't really do grades. And record keeping... 

You can still work to mastery in high school. That's an A as the final grade on the transcript. For some classes, you can break out percentages of how much each type of work is worth. That is easier with things like Math and Science. Example:

Science grade breakdown:
15% = exercises/homework
15% = quizzes
40% = chapter tests
30% = completed labs/investigations

For Lit. that is a little harder. Many people on these boards do NOT have their student produce written "output" for every single thing they read. A handful of quality reader responses and essays of various types would work great. Or, you can have your student read / discuss with you, and then all of the writing could come through a writing program or outsourced writing class. Totally up to you.

Just a few rambling thoughts... Warmest regards, Lori D.
 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lori D.

[Entropymama]

Oh no! I just ordered Writing Strands because of the recommendation in WTM. What didn't you like about it? 

Also, you are AMAZING. 

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, Entropymama said:

Oh no! I just ordered Writing Strands because of the recommendation in WTM. What didn't you like about it? 

What version of WTM do you have? I believe that's an older recommendation. SWB has created her own writing series for middle school, but that really can be used at the high school level as well for a student just transitioning into more complex/analytical writing (Writing With Skill, levels 1, 2, 3).

Writing Strands is rather light and limited, and is more creative writing-based in the assignments, when I personally think that at the high school level, the focus needs to be on logical thinking to develop a complete thesis and argument of support. Writing Strands Advanced I also lists the "book report" as one of the types of assignments covered -- book reports are an elementary grade type of assignment. A book review would be an upper elementary/lower middle school type of assignment. A book analysis is an upper middle school/high school type of assignment. JMO.

I do see that the Writing Strands Advanced I covers a number of literary devices and has you write about them, but all of the assignments are out of the Bible. I have no problems with the "Bible as Literature" (and there is actually a lot of overlap in literary analysis and Biblical exegesis), but I would prefer to dig into the Bible with my students with a meaty Scripture study, and then for English, have my students be getting exposure to a wide variety of literature so we can discuss various worldviews while seeing how literary devices are at work. Just me.

That leads me to suggest that you might look at Windows to the World as a 1-semester (0.5 credit program) of English (lit. + writing)for the spring. (And, because WttW focuses on short stories, that would still leave you plenty of time for your stack of books to read/discuss together and count towards finishing off this semester, and making a meaty, rigorous supplement to the 0.5 credit with WttW in the spring.)  

WttW first teaches annotation, and then how to use your annotations as supporting examples in writing a literary analysis essay. The last half of the program then covers 8-10 of the most frequently used literary devices. The program focuses on 6 classic short stories (included in the program), plus some poems. It has one of the clearest step-by-step explanations of how to write a literary analysis essay that I've seen. A good portion of the program can be done independently by the student (student book here), but you will still need to be somewhat involved (teacher book).

While I have not used the Advanced levels of Writing Strands, from the samples, WttW is much more in depth and will be a better prep, if your student is still needing to learn how to analyze literature and write a literary analysis essay.

If your student has those skills down, then you may want to consider an outsourced class for solid upper level high school literature reading / discussing / writing.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lori D.

[Entropymama]

Update! 

Thanks to all your amazing advice we have got things pretty well organized. I canceled Writing Strands. 🙂 I'm trying to just continue the classes she had at school, so here's what we're doing: 

English: The Blue Book of Grammar and On Writing Well by William Zinsser. I taught ESL, so I feel like I can go over this stuff with her pretty well, and her history curriculum has weekly 5 paragraph essays assigned. We're currently reading Fahrenheit 451 and using online resources to talk about plot, theme character, etc. I'm debating but I think we'll do either Brave New World or War of the Worlds next. I'm trying to stick to books that a) I've read and can discuss, b) have lots of online resources, and c) she might find interesting. For the spring I may enroll her in an online class or something at the community college. 

Math: Personal Finance and Economics. We're starting with microeconomics (online course at MRU.org which has quizzes and a final exam) and then we'll go through How to Adult and the Personal Finance Doodle Book which has online audio to listen to while filling in the doodle pages. In the spring we'll do macroeconomics through MRU and watch lots of documentaries on the history of econ, global econ, etc. 

Science: Marine Biology and Oceanography. I got a Marine Biology textbook that has questions and activities and am supplementing each chapter with documentaries and outings to the beach. We're looking into snorkeling or scuba lessons! 

History: WA state history, because it's a graduation requirement here. Found a textbook written by a homeschool mom that has lots of written work, a timeline, and several field trips. 

PE: Weightlifting. She used to do crossfit so we signed her up at a gym and she's going 3-4 times per week and tracking her progress. 

Food and Nutrition. Cooking something at least once per week and currently reporting on fad diets, one per week. I'm going to find more resources and add some actual physiology and nutrition. And making her get a food handler's license. 

Art: She did ceramics at school, which I can't replicate, but I signed up for Great Courses and she's doing a pencil drawing course. When that's done we'll do either watercolors or acrylics and then a quarter of photography. 

I've also added SAT prep three times per week, she volunteers at church, has asked for more hours at work and is going to try out snowboarding with a friend of ours who used to be an instructor. 

Any and all advice and critique is welcome! Thanks again! 

[Lori D.]

18 hours ago, Entropymama said:

Update! ...

English: The Blue Book of Grammar and On Writing Well by William Zinsser. I taught ESL, so I feel like I can go over this stuff with her pretty well, and her history curriculum has weekly 5 paragraph essays assigned. We're currently reading Fahrenheit 451 and using online resources to talk about plot, theme character, etc. I'm debating but I think we'll do either Brave New World or War of the Worlds next. I'm trying to stick to books that a) I've read and can discuss, b) have lots of online resources, and c) she might find interesting. For the spring I may enroll her in an online class or something at the community college. 

Math: Personal Finance and Economics. We're starting with microeconomics (online course at MRU.org which has quizzes and a final exam) and then we'll go through How to Adult and the Personal Finance Doodle Book which has online audio to listen to while filling in the doodle pages. In the spring we'll do macroeconomics through MRU and watch lots of documentaries on the history of econ, global econ, etc. 

Science: Marine Biology and Oceanography. I got a Marine Biology textbook that has questions and activities and am supplementing each chapter with documentaries and outings to the beach. We're looking into snorkeling or scuba lessons! 

History: WA state history, because it's a graduation requirement here. Found a textbook written by a homeschool mom that has lots of written work, a timeline, and several field trips. 

PE: Weightlifting. She used to do crossfit so we signed her up at a gym and she's going 3-4 times per week and tracking her progress. 

Food and Nutrition. Cooking something at least once per week and currently reporting on fad diets, one per week. I'm going to find more resources and add some actual physiology and nutrition. And making her get a food handler's license. 

Art: She did ceramics at school, which I can't replicate, but I signed up for Great Courses and she's doing a pencil drawing course. When that's done we'll do either watercolors or acrylics and then a quarter of photography. 

I've also added SAT prep three times per week, she volunteers at church, has asked for more hours at work and is going to try out snowboarding with a friend of ours who used to be an instructor. 

Any and all advice and critique is welcome! Thanks again! 

re: English
That sounds like it would work. Just a side note: unless there is a remedial need, most students have completed formal Grammar instruction by the end of 8th grade, and any Grammar in high school is done within the context of applying it to the Writing, or to acquiring foreign language. I would also make sure that those history 5-paragraph essays cover a variety of types of essays

- Fahrenheit 451 -- if you private message me, I'm willing to share the guide I created for my homeschool co-op class
- Fahrenheit 451 -- free online guide by Paul Brians
- Brave New World - free pdf Monarch guide 
- Brave New World - free online Bibliomania guide
- War of the Worlds - free online guide by Paul Brians
- War of the Worlds - free online comprehension & discussion questions

Here are 2 free resources for lit. guides (neither has any of the specific books you are considering, but lots of other great classics, including various Shakespeare plays):
- Penguin Teacher Guides -- high school and college level works
- Glencoe Literature Library guides -- middle school and high school level works
_______________

re: Math
Economics or Personal Finance do not count as a math credit. They could possibly be combined to be an  Economics credit, OR depending on how much material, they could be counted as a separate credit of Economics (Social Studies) + partial credit of Elective: Personal Finance.

Money Skills is a FREE full curriculum program of online reality-based personal finance for high school -- NOT a math credit, but a Personal Finance credit. Here is the course content, and here are links to additional resources.

Also, if the How to Adult book you are planning on doing with the Personal Finance is the one by Stephen Wildish, that covers Consumer Science topics, not so much just Personal Finance. See below for more life prep / adulting / Consumer Science resources. Again, NOT a Math credit, but great as an Elective: Consumer Science.

Back to MATH: For college prep, she will need to have completed Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2, and many colleges also require a 4th math that has Algebra 2 as a pre-requisite -- so, Pre-Calculus. If DD already has those college prep credits she needs, and/or only can handle a lighter math this year, you might consider:
- Business Math (Abeka, ACE, etc.)
- Accounting / Bookkeeping (AO Lifepacs, ALEKS, Schoolhouse Teachers, etc.)
- Consumer Math (BJU, Abeka, MUS Stewardship, etc.) -- a lot of overlap with Personal Finance
_______________

re: Science and History
Sounds good. I'd just recommend that, for the Science, you do a handful of formal labs and write up the lab reports for practice for future college science courses. 😄 
_______________

re: Food and Nutrition
An Elective. Totally fine and fun to go "Do It Yourself" -- but remember that if the last time you made your own courses and unit studies was for elementary/middle school ages, you'll just make sure that the volume (amount of material and amount of time spent on the topic) and rigor are of high school level. 😉 Also, if you find you don't have enough with this and also not enough for a partial credit of Personal Finance, you can combine these for a Consumer Science credit. 

Consumer Science credit option:
In addition to your Food and Nutrition counting towards a Consumer Science credit, as well as your How to Adult book, if wanting to combine into a Consumer Science credit here are two more books you might be interested in that would work well with the How to Adult book:
- The Useful Book: 201 Life Skills They Used to Teach in Home Ec and Shop (Bowers)
- Life Skills 101: A Practical Guide to Leaving Home and Living on Your Own (Pestalozzi)

_______________

Overall feedback:
Lots of variety. Fun explorations of personal interests. Totally fine and fun to go "Do It Yourself" -- but remember that if the last time you made your own courses and unit studies was for elementary/middle school ages, you'll just make sure that the volume (amount of material and amount of time spent on the topic) and rigor are of high school level.

If planning to go "DIY", look at the table of contents for a few textbooks, and also do an online search for a few high school syllabi, to get a feel for what topics are covered and in how much depth to know how to plan for your Science and Electives.

For tracking hours... 120 hours  = 1 credit works if it's just a box-checking course, for subjects like English (Lit/Writing), Science, and Foreign Language, 150 hours (average for 1 credit), to 180 hours (max. for 1 credit) is much more typical. 

A rough guide for counting hours towards credit:

. . . . . . . . . . . .min.  .avg. . .max
1.00 credit = 120 . . 150 . .180  hours
0.75 credit =  90 . . 110 . . 135  hours
0.66 credit =  80 . . 100 .. 120  hours
0.50 credit =  60 . . . 75 .. . 90  hours
0.33 credit =  40 . . . 50  . . 60  hours
0.25 credit =  30 . . . 35  . . 45  hours

Minimum hours = the Carnegie credit defines the minimum amount of classroom contact for a credit (120 hours), with the understanding that additional hours are spent outside the classroom as homework, practice, projects, study, etc.

Maximum hours = typical public school requirement of 180 hours for 1 credit, coming from 36 weeks of a school year = 1 hour/day x 5 days per week. Since classes typically run 45-50 minutes per day, and because assemblies and other events reduce the total amount of class meetings, that allows for time beyond the class for doing homework, practice, projects, study, etc.

Average hours = the halfway point between the minimum Carnegie credit and the maximum public school requirement. Shooting for 135-165 hours for each credit makes for fairly consistent credits. What that looks like: roughly 5 hours/week x 30 weeks; OR, 1 hour/day x 4 days/week; OR 50 min./day x 5 days/week.

Special exceptions to the hours per credit chart:
- dual enrollment courses -- the college level rigor/volume will not necessarily match up hour-wise with high school level material
- standard high school textbook or program successfully completed in less than the minimum or more than the maximum

Edited November 21, 2021 by Lori D.