50/50 parenting

[thewellerman]

Also, just thinking outside of the box, I wonder if there is another family who needs part time care.  Maybe the two of you could team up and equal a whole daycare slot.  Then, you would both only be paying for the days you actually need.  Might be too tricky since his schedule flips.  Also, might work with a home daycare, but not a commercial one. 

[hippymamato3]

19 hours ago, Scarlett said:

And neither is the baby’s mother.  So what do you suggest?  

She currently has him, though, right? If neither want to raise him, there are certainly families who would love to adopt this baby. But your stepson isn't showing that he's even capable - never mind interested.

[hippymamato3]

18 hours ago, Scarlett said:

The bolded really bugs me because it can certainly be both. Yes he reacted poorly and we do not excuse that at all. But his wife of 1 year told him to leave their apartment because she wanted other men.  He has not responded well to that at all….and we keep hoping he will listen to our advice….but no his wife is not innocent in this.  

His issues are not her fault though. Seriously. You want someone to blame and I get it - but he chose her. He's an adult. Blaminng her will get him absolutely nowhere.

[hippymamato3]

6 hours ago, fraidycat said:

This young man is going through a hellishly traumatic experience that most of us would not wish upon anybody, ever. His physiological stress response system is in high gear at all times - he is in fight or flight mode. Reacting emotionally in less than ideal ways to additional daily stressors, such as at work and making poor choices (not thinking straight because: stress!) does not mean he should not have his kid 50% of the time over the long term because of the way he is reacting to the stress in the short term.

And yet people every day go through stress and don't react that way - because they have kids and need to provide for them. 

[WildflowerMom]

I was reading through this thread today, and I honestly think this may be temporary.  It sounds like ddil may have thought the grass was greener but now may be realizing it's not. It sounds like dss still wants to make it work with her.  I'd (try to) stop stressing over potential long term issues and see if they don't work it out between each other soon.   That would be best for baby, too.  

[fraidycat]

45 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

And yet people every day go through stress and don't react that way - because they have kids and need to provide for them. 

But this thread is about one particular person, with a heaping helping of stress and trauma on his shoulders at.this.moment.in.time. A little grace goes a long way, even if you yourself are perfect.

[Lecka]

I hope everything will work out over time, in this stressful situation!  I am glad dss has some family support, it is so valuable when people are at a low point in life.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, hippymamato3 said:

She currently has him, though, right? If neither want to raise him, there are certainly families who would love to adopt this baby. But your stepson isn't showing that he's even capable - never mind interested.

Seriously?  This is the ugliest “advice “ I have ever seen on this board. 

[Scarlett]

5 hours ago, hippymamato3 said:

She currently has him, though, right? If neither want to raise him, there are certainly families who would love to adopt this baby. But your stepson isn't showing that he's even capable - never mind interested.

She has him when dss doesn’t but bear in mind she has a place to live and he doesn’t…..well he has our home as of Thursday.  So I do not agree that she is more capable than him.  Of all the kids out there living in broken and abusive and neglected homes…..this is the situation you think calls for relinquishing of parental rights. SMH.  How about giving people a hand when they are down and out.  
 

 

[Scarlett]

5 hours ago, WildflowerMom said:

I was reading through this thread today, and I honestly think this may be temporary.  It sounds like ddil may have thought the grass was greener but now may be realizing it's not. It sounds like dss still wants to make it work with her.  I'd (try to) stop stressing over potential long term issues and see if they don't work it out between each other soon.   That would be best for baby, too.  

Sadly I don’t think she will change her mind.  We talked to him today about when he wants us to call our paralegal friend.  He almost started crying and said he was just having trouble taking that step….and Dh asked him if he wife  wants to reconcile….he shook his head hard no.  We reminded him he is in a precarious situation legally if she decides to run off across country to some man he would have a hard time getting the baby back. He nodded yes he knows and agrees.  
 

[Scarlett]

We had a lovely day with the baby.  Around 3 Dh and I took him over to my parents house so dss could sleep a few hours before he left for work. We got back and gave baby a bath and I rocked him and sang to him.  When I would stop singing he would put his finger on my lips. So sweet.  Dss woke up at 7:30 and kissed on his baby before leaving for work.  I put down immediately and he went right to sleep.  
 

So tomorrow dss will get home around 7 and we will let him sleep while we take care of baby. 

[hippymamato3]

46 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She has him when dss doesn’t but bear in mind she has a place to live and he doesn’t…..well he has our home as of Thursday.  So I do not agree that she is more capable than him.  Of all the kids out there living in broken and abusive and neglected homes…..this is the situation you think calls for relinquishing of parental rights. SMH.  How about giving people a hand when they are down and out.  
 

 

You have said that neither of them want to raise him full time. I find this terribly sad. If that's really the case and neither wants to - there are people who DO. This wasn't intended to be ugly. I have adopted two children whose parents couldn't parent them. 

[hippymamato3]

3 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Seriously?  This is the ugliest “advice “ I have ever seen on this board. 

Seriously? Neither of them wants to raise the baby! Maybe Scarlett does - in which case, that may  be the best option.

[Scarlett]

Just now, hippymamato3 said:

You have said that neither of them want to raise him full time. I find this terribly sad. If that's really the case and neither wants to - there are people who DO. This wasn't intended to be ugly. I have adopted two children whose parents couldn't parent them. 

I don’t believe I ever said dss doesn’t want to raise him full time.  If they get a divorce neither of them can have him full time.  You understand that is how divorce works right?  Dss has also said he expects he will end up with full custody. 

I am extremely frustrated with dss but I don’t believe he is incapable of parenting his child.  
 

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Seriously? Neither of them wants to raise the baby! Maybe Scarlett does - in which case, that may  be the best option.

See my post above.  I don’t know where you are getting that dss doesn’t want to raise his son.  He is overwhelmed and needs help.  But yes, if it came to that we certainly would take the baby.  

[JustEm]

17 hours ago, hippymamato3 said:

You have said that neither of them want to raise him full time. I find this terribly sad. If that's really the case and neither wants to - there are people who DO. This wasn't intended to be ugly. I have adopted two children whose parents couldn't parent them. 

You are being ugly by continuing this line of conversation when OP has already addressed you and made it clear your way off base in your suggestion

[hippymamato3]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

You are being ugly by continuing this line of conversation when OP has already addressed you and made it clear your way off base in your suggestion

Thank you for continuing by commenting on it again this afternoon. There's nothing ugly about adoption. Sometimes it's the best decision for a child in a tough situation.

[JustEm]

5 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Thank you for continuing by commenting on it again this afternoon. There's nothing ugly about adoption. Sometimes it's the best decision for a child in a tough situation.

I'm commenting now because that is when I'm seeing it, that is how message boards go.

I in no way implied that there was anything ugly about adoption, just about your insistence to keep recommending it in this situation once OP shot your initial suggestion down.

[hippymamato3]

23 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I'm commenting now because that is when I'm seeing it, that is how message boards go.

I in no way implied that there was anything ugly about adoption, just about your insistence to keep recommending it in this situation once OP shot your initial suggestion down.

I didn't continue to recommend it. I pointed out that in a situation where neither parent wants to parent like they should - it's an option. In this case, it appears Scarlett and her husband will step in if needed. This child is lucky.

[Melissa in Australia]

24 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Thank you for continuing by commenting on it again this afternoon. There's nothing ugly about adoption. Sometimes it's the best decision for a child in a tough situation.

Adoption is mostly  ugly  That is why it is mostly not done in other  countries. It involves ripping babies away from vulnerable people so rich people can have kids. I am not talking about foster kids being placed in permanent homes through adoption

[hippymamato3]

Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

Adoption is mostly  ugly  That is why it is mostly not done in other  countries. It involves ripping babies away from vulnerable people so rich people can have kids. I am not talking about foster kids being placed in permanent homes through adoption

I was specifically talking about neglect/abuse situations. But this is a good point too. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, hippymamato3 said:

I was specifically talking about neglect/abuse situations. But this is a good point too. 

This baby is not abused. It is not neglected. The parents are young, inexperienced and immature. But they have family support. And paid caregivers that give good care at daycare.  

[hippymamato3]

11 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

This baby is not abused. It is not neglected. The parents are young, inexperienced and immature. But they have family support. And paid caregivers that give good care at daycare.  

We don't actually know that...Scarlett has implied the mother isn't the most attentive. Who knows?

[TechWife]

20 hours ago, hippymamato3 said:

You have said that neither of them want to raise him full time. I find this terribly sad. If that's really the case and neither wants to - there are people who DO. This wasn't intended to be ugly. I have adopted two children whose parents couldn't parent them. 

It isn’t that they won’t/can’t parent the baby full time. They are getting a divorce. Neither will be able to parent full time - that’s what shared custody is. Scarlett & her dh are doing everything they can to help their son parent. Jumping immediately to adoption instead of seeking appropriately helping parents in the process of parenting is predatory, IMO. It’s an old attitude that gives adoptive parents & adoption agencies bad reputations. It’s gross. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by TechWife

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, hippymamato3 said:

I didn't continue to recommend it. I pointed out that in a situation where neither parent wants to parent like they should - it's an option. In this case, it appears Scarlett and her husband will step in if needed. This child is lucky.

Who are you to decide how someone “should” parent their children? The audacity. 

[Melissa Louise]

If son expects to have shared custody, he needs to start as he means to go on.

Move closer to where baby lives right now. 

Sort out care options. 

Show up to do 50% of the baby's care now. 

Regardless of work/finances, he can do the last at least.

And if he were my son, I'd be pointing out that grandparents sometimes provide care ( and sometimes they don't) but that 50% means HE will organize grandparent care if he needs it, and if it is available. Not that parents will solve it for him.

Yes, it's hard to be mid twenties and have to put your baby first. Oh well. 

I don't know how we got in the weeds on adoption but I do agree that if he wants 50%, he needs to start acting like it, and not just saying it. 

If it were my son, and I saw words coming out of his mouth not backed up by behaviours, I'd tell him so. 

Does he want 50%, truly? Or is he being told to go for 50% so he won't have to pay child support? 

 

[TechWife]

NM - I rethought this line of conversation & don’t want to encourage it. 
ETA: Not the thread, it’s a good thread. I rethought a particular post I made. Sorry for any confusion.

Edited December 6, 2021 by TechWife

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

If son expects to have shared custody, he needs to start as he means to go on.

Move closer to where baby lives right now. 

Sort out care options. 

Show up to do 50% of the baby's care now. 

Regardless of work/finances, he can do the last at least.

And if he were my son, I'd be pointing out that grandparents sometimes provide care ( and sometimes they don't) but that 50% means HE will organize grandparent care if he needs it, and if it is available. Not that parents will solve it for him.

Yes, it's hard to be mid twenties and have to put your baby first. Oh well. 

I don't know how we got in the weeds on adoption but I do agree that if he wants 50%, he needs to start acting like it, and not just saying it. 

If it were my son, and I saw words coming out of his mouth not backed up by behaviours, I'd tell him so. 

Does he want 50%, truly? Or is he being told to go for 50% so he won't have to pay child support? 

 

Well WE didn’t tell him to get 50/50 to avoid cs.  He told us from the very beginning that he and his wife agreed to that. And we very specifically asked him from the beginning if he wanted half time he said yes.   So I don’t know any more than that.

He is working on getting a day job. He is now closer to his son and the day care.  He talked to the paralegal this afternoon.  One step at a time. 
 

 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, hippymamato3 said:

We don't actually know that...Scarlett has implied the mother isn't the most attentive. Who knows?

I said I thought she was more than willing to 50/50 parent.  I have no reason to think she is neglecting him or abusing him.  I do think they are both young and inexperienced.  And a lot  of things about her and him bug me but that is a far cry from being abusive or neglectful. 

[Scarlett]

Baby is down, dss has left for his night shift….he is stressing out because they are changing him to 2 p.m -10 starting tomorrow and he has to get baby to daycare in the morning….Dh offered to drop him off at day care but dss says they will ‘ throw a fit’….because Dh is not yet on the approved list.  Which I find insane…..for pickups yes, I get that……but to drop off?  Does anyone know if this is how day cares operate?

At any rate I made suggestions! But I am leaving it to the two of them to work out…..dss will either come home and take baby to day care himself and then come home and sleep or he will leave work when his shifts ends and meet Dh there.

I am freaking exhausted y’all.  This is not sustainable….it isn’t just caring for a baby which we aren’t used to, but the night shift work and having to be quiet while  he sleeps….and this morning dss was asleep on our sofa so he wouldn’t wake baby and I did t even feel like I could get up and got get coffee.
 

Meeting with paralegal went well.   

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well WE didn’t tell him to get 50/50 to avoid cs.  He told us from the very beginning that he and his wife agreed to that. And we very specifically asked him from the beginning if he wanted half time he said yes.   So I don’t know any more than that.

He is working on getting a day job. He is now closer to his son and the day care.  He talked to the paralegal this afternoon.  One step at a time. 
 

 

I’m glad he talked to the paralegal and that it went well. I hope he is starting to view this situation a bit more realistically, but as you said — one step at a time.

[Catwoman]

44 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Baby is down, dss has left for his night shift….he is stressing out because they are changing him to 2 p.m -10 starting tomorrow and he has to get baby to daycare in the morning….Dh offered to drop him off at day care but dss says they will ‘ throw a fit’….because Dh is not yet on the approved list.  Which I find insane…..for pickups yes, I get that……but to drop off?  Does anyone know if this is how day cares operate?

At any rate I made suggestions! But I am leaving it to the two of them to work out…..dss will either come home and take baby to day care himself and then come home and sleep or he will leave work when his shifts ends and meet Dh there.

I am freaking exhausted y’all.  This is not sustainable….it isn’t just caring for a baby which we aren’t used to, but the night shift work and having to be quiet while  he sleeps….and this morning dss was asleep on our sofa so he wouldn’t wake baby and I did t even feel like I could get up and got get coffee.
 

Meeting with paralegal went well.   

I think baby is going to have to get used to him making a bit of noise in the bedroom, because it’s ridiculous for you to have to sneak around your own house to avoid waking dss on the sofa. 

[Scarlett]

Suddenly they think the baby might be lactose intolerant.  Would that not have manifested itself before 15 months?  So they are withholding milk…and yogurt….and i guess ice cream.

I googled and apparently it might be ok if babies last 1 year don’t drink milk but they have to get their Vit d and calcium from somewhere.  If someone has advice I this area let me know. 

[Slache]

You and DH should get on the daycare list and doctor list and all the things ASAP. Avoid situations like this in the future.

[Slache]

Lactose intolerance can manifest itself at any age.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Slache said:

You and DH should get on the daycare list and doctor list and all the things ASAP. Avoid situations like this in the future.

Yes of course…working on that….but we have an immediate situation to deal with. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Slache said:

Lactose intolerance can manifest itself at any age.

Ok good to know……my SIL ( this baby’s blood aunt) is lactose intolerant but she eats Greek yogurt.  So…not sure how all that works.  

[prairiewindmomma]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Suddenly they think the baby might be lactose intolerant.  Would that not have manifested itself before 15 months?  So they are withholding milk…and yogurt….and i guess ice cream.

I googled and apparently it might be ok if babies last 1 year don’t drink milk but they have to get their Vit d and calcium from somewhere.  If someone has advice I this area let me know. 

For my lactose intolerant children we did vitamin drops and lactose free milk. A dairy allergy is next level. One of my daughters could handle no dairy for her first several years of life, we tried both soy and almond milk for her. Milk isn’t required for a healthy child….plenty of options out there!

[prairiewindmomma]

The bacteria in yogurt breaks down the lactose somewhat.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

For my lactose intolerant children we did vitamin drops and lactose free milk. A dairy allergy is next level. One of my daughters could handle no dairy for her first several years of life, we tried both soy and almond milk for her. Milk isn’t required for a healthy child….plenty of options out there!

So what are the symptoms?

[cjzimmer1]

Just now, Scarlett said:

So what are the symptoms?

depends on individual but some of the more common ones are

gas

diarrhea

cramps

bloating

nausea

[vonfirmath]

14 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Suddenly they think the baby might be lactose intolerant.  Would that not have manifested itself before 15 months?  So they are withholding milk…and yogurt….and i guess ice cream.

I googled and apparently it might be ok if babies last 1 year don’t drink milk but they have to get their Vit d and calcium from somewhere.  If someone has advice I this area let me know. 

My daughter was 10 months old before I had the brain wave that the problems we had was because she was lactose intolerant.  We used soy milk and now use lactose free milk and are fine.  (She had struggled with eczema and sleeping much more than her brother.  In later years, she can tolerate a little bit of dairy -- baked milk in cakes, bread, etc is fine. We avoid milk altogether. Milk in sauces causes stomach pain and have been known to come back up as projectile vomit a few hours later.

Edited December 6, 2021 by vonfirmath

[Slache]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ok good to know……my SIL ( this baby’s blood aunt) is lactose intolerant but she eats Greek yogurt.  So…not sure how all that works.  

What Prairie said, plus it's on a spectrum.

[prairiewindmomma]

Symptoms have differed between my kids.

One had a red ring around the food exit hole and eczema and a drippy nose.

Another had diarrhea shortly after dairy, repeatedly. Explosive diapers would happen within 30 min. 
 

Another had horrible constipation with dairy. This didn’t manifest until closer to 2. This child also had frequent ear infections and occasional eczema. 
 

We did elimination diets to sort it out. The half life of dairy protein is at least 17 days so you have to be dairy free that long before being able to make a correlation. It usually took a couple of rounds to really sort out what was what with the first two kids. By the third we figured it out earlier.

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

 

I am freaking exhausted y’all.  This is not sustainable….it isn’t just caring for a baby which we aren’t used to, but the night shift work and having to be quiet while  he sleeps….and this morning dss was asleep on our sofa so he wouldn’t wake baby and I did t even feel like I could get up and got get coffee.
 

Meeting with paralegal went well.   

You need to start as you mean to go on as well - just live your life as usual. Your dss is going to have to expect that y'all will be getting up and making coffee, talking on the phone, and just generally going about your day. Don't create an expectation that you are going to tiptoe around. 

I'm glad he met with the paralegal!

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Suddenly they think the baby might be lactose intolerant.  Would that not have manifested itself before 15 months?  So they are withholding milk…and yogurt….and i guess ice cream.

I googled and apparently it might be ok if babies last 1 year don’t drink milk but they have to get their Vit d and calcium from somewhere.  If someone has advice I this area let me know. 

Who is “they?” Have you noticed any symptoms when you are taking care of the baby?

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Symptoms have differed between my kids.

One had a red ring around the food exit hole and eczema and a drippy nose.

Another had diarrhea shortly after dairy, repeatedly. Explosive diapers would happen within 30 min. 
 

Another had horrible constipation with dairy. This didn’t manifest until closer to 2. This child also had frequent ear infections and occasional eczema. 
 

We did elimination diets to sort it out. The half life of dairy protein is at least 17 days so you have to be dairy free that long before being able to make a correlation. It usually took a couple of rounds to really sort out what was what with the first two kids. By the third we figured it out earlier.

He had no dairy here except a bit of cheese….but really I have no idea what he has had for the last 17 days…but they think he is lactose intolerant/milk is too expensive so I assume he has been limited on the dairy.  
 

We haven’t changed baby’s diapers for a loooong time so sorry to be gross, but all his diapers seem to be loose to me.  And the green peas we fed him came out basically whole and so dss wouldn’t let us give him more peas.. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

You need to start as you mean to go on as well - just live your life as usual. Your dss is going to have to expect that y'all will be getting up and making coffee, talking on the phone, and just generally going about your day. Don't create an expectation that you are going to tiptoe around. 

I'm glad he met with the paralegal!

I know this is correct advice……it is just hard to wake up someone who has worked all night.  On the other hand we don’t want to make it too comfortable here!

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Who is “they?” Have you noticed any symptoms when you are taking care of the baby?

Dss and the mom…..and no we notice no symptoms.  His diapers seem a bit loose to us…but  nothing horrible. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Walmart carries lactose free milk for $3.12 a half gallon here. A regular half gallon is $1.98. 
 

If they don’t want to give him milk that is one thing, but we’re talking about $1.14 in difference here.  Cheese, icecream and the like is way more expensive.