50/50 parenting

[Scarlett]

I have been spoiled by this group who is logical and  reasonable.  They are just in ranting mode. 

[bolt.]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have been spoiled by this group who is logical and  reasonable.  They are just in ranting mode. 

I'm convinced that this is not only the best semi-social-media group on the internet -- but that it is also a serious brain trust, working for free, 24h/d, that could benefit all of humanity if anybody ever found us and leveraged our collective wisdom.

I'm both proud and humbled to be part of such illustrious company! (And I'm glad it includes you too Scarlett, since it's your thread and your comment that I'm responding to.)

Edited November 7, 2021 by bolt.

[Scarlett]

Dss25 called his dad last night.  He is still coming with the baby tomorrow to stay a few days.  I believe he has a job offer with the same company he is with for days and it is in the same town as the baby's daycare.  We will have to get details but that sounds like a good deal.  Not sure what the days of the week are....will find out more tomorrow I guess.

But I am happy he is making serious efforts to get on days.  

So he paid another full month's rent on the apartment he shared with his wife that she kicked him out of.  She and 2 other roommates are supposed to be renting a house but they can't get all the money together.  So he is broke---he told his dad he has $3 left in the bank. Gets  paid Friday.   I get why he is doing it.....it will probably keep her from filing back child support on him and even if she tries he can  prove he has been paying all her bills etc.  So he should be fine on that.  I am a little mystified why he doesn't just go back to the apartment and sleep there.  I don't think their relationship is contentious....but maybe she is telling him if he comes back she will leave and he doesn't want to risk the baby not having a secure place. 

But anyway.  I do feel for him.  What a mess.

[Scarlett]

Dss25 is back with the baby for a couple of days.  He is still really really struggling to know what to do next.  He is stuck paying another 2 months rent on the apartment (even if she moves out) so that he can avoid ruining his credit which would lead to him not being able to rent an apartment for himself.  He is also paying 2 car payments that total almost $700.00 And car insurance of $200 or so.  

So we tried to reason on how to transition to not paying her  bills.  Her car payment for instance.  He says it is in his name and again he doesn't want to ruin his credit.  So she needs to refinance in her name right?  Except he thinks she can't or won't because it is upside down.  If he keeps paying on this car that she drives and he has financed in his name he also has to keep the insurance up on it.  Oh and his idea is to roll the entire amount into his car (for which he is paying 21% interest) and then just give her the (paid for) car.  We are just sitting there stunned.  Why would you do that son?  Well, he says, "I am required to provide her with a drivable car in her driveway."  No son, you are not.  He argued, so I think someone has told him that....he thinks a judge would insist he do that.  

It is a huge mess.....and he has a day job offer near her/us/the day care but it is a big cut in pay and he is afraid he can't make it.  We tried to reason with him that if he will stop paying her  bills and maybe pick up some extra shifts on the weeks he doesn't have the baby that he will be fine.  

He also thinks he has to let her claim the baby every year.  Why son?  Because she makes less than I do.  So we suggested he let her have the first year and then alternate.  

Her dryer has quit....so he told her he would fix it for her.  Order the part etc.  Once again, Why son?  So my son can have dry clothes.  We assured him clothes can be hung in the apartment to dry and he won't suffer without his mom having a dryer.  Or she can go to the laundromat.  

We were very calm and kind but he got emotional.....he had to walk outside because he was about to cry.  

And before anyone jumps on me for us suggesting he shouldn't do those things for her, please remember HE can't afford a place for himself.  HE isn't eating because he can't afford food.  (he said the nurses bring him leftover food from the cafeteria once a day and at his buddy's house he eats spam and crackers)  HE isn't sleeping because he is working crazy night hours.  

Oh and on top of all that she informed dss25 she is cutting back on the baby's milk because it is too expensive.  Which screams total manipulation to me.....because of course he told her would buy the milk. (and she is getting WIC)  On that one we said 'yes buy the baby milk--heck WE will buy the baby milk, but you have got to stop thinking you have to solve her problems. "

Edited November 11, 2021 by Scarlett

[JustEm]

Oh man, that all sounds so crazy. I know you don't think a lawyer is a good option but I really think your dss needs one because he has no real grasp on what is acceptable to expect during the separation and divorce process.  He is going to continue to wreck his finances and let his stbx walk all over him.  I was completely on board with you that lawyers are not necessary but that is only if the people who would normally use them are educated well enough or have the drive to educate themselves well enough to go without them. It does not sound like your dss has the drive or maybe just energy and time to figure this stuff out on his own.

[Spryte]

I think, too, this is where a consult with an attorney would be of great benefit to him. He doesn’t understand his obligations to stbx, or to baby, and he needs to understand them.

 

[WildflowerMom]

This is exactly why he needs a lawyer... yesterday.    He's not going to believe it and start acting on the info he's given unless it comes from a lawyer.    Call a lawyer now and get him the quickest appt he can get.   

[theelfqueen]

He needs a lawyer. He needs advice from someone he can recognize as an authority on this topic, who can help him to see his actual obligations and what he needs to do to make his position stronger. I know you are giving him advice but clearly so is someone else - someone who is preying on his fears. He needs an authority who KNOWS the law and who he believes knows the law. 

[freesia]

Another vote for lawyer

[Catwoman]

I hate to pile on you, Scarlett, but your dss absolutely, positively needs a good, tough divorce attorney. And he needs one immediately.

I feel so sad for him. He is trying so hard to do all the right things. Thank goodness he has you and your dh -  you are being so wonderful to him.

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, Catwoman said:

I hate to pile on you, Scarlett, but your dss absolutely, positively needs a good, tough divorce attorney. And he needs one immediately.

I feel so sad for him. He is trying so hard to do all the right things. Thank goodness he has you and your dh -  you are being so wonderful to him.

Yes, and I know you know this, but he won't get any points from a judge for "being a nice guy" 

 

[theelfqueen]

Oh and I hope she texted him that nonsense about cutting back on the baby's milk and he SAVED it. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, fairfarmhand said:

Yes, and I know you know this, but he won't get any points from a judge for "being a nice guy" 

 

ABSOLUTELY!  If anything, he may be setting a very bad precedent by providing his ex with far more than would be legally required of him -- and making it appear that he can afford to support her in a way that he actually can't afford to do. That could have very negative consequences in the long run, and it's a big reason why he needs that lawyer right away.

 

[Spryte]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

ABSOLUTELY!  If anything, he may be setting a very bad precedent by providing his ex with far more than would be legally required of him -- and making it appear that he can afford to support her in a way that he actually can't afford to do. That could have very negative consequences in the long run, and it's a big reason why he needs that lawyer right away.

 

Bingo!

Speaking from experience here. That’s exactly what will happen.

[Scarlett]

Thanks everyone.  Dh and I haven't even had time to talk about this latest development.  Dh took off work today to be there with him.  Dss25 would, at this point be COMPLETELY overwhelmed talking to an attorney.  He really is in need of these weekly discussions with us because I can tell he is starting to see things differently.  

I did tell him last night that he needs to get this settled....a day job and something agreed upon....sooner rather than later and that she has to be made to understand he is not obligated to keep supporting her and he isn't going to.  

The thing about getting an attorney....with dss's current mindset of wanting to be 'the nice guy'  it won't do him any good.  It might come to that---and soon---but they just need to start with talking about what they each want.  

And what is so distressing about  this is that this is exactly how dh did his XW (his boys mom)...and she just completely abused him over it all.

I told him they need to agree about the counties they will stay within and get it signed by a judge before she meets some guy on the other side of the country and takes off with the baby.  He told us she is already in a long distance 'relationship' with some guy in the  military.  Red flag, Red flag, Red flag.  He has GOT to get something agreed upon.  And Yes I am starting to agree with y'all that he might need an attorney.

[theelfqueen]

He should NOT make an agreement with someone who is manipulating him and bleeding him dry without an attorney. 

I know you don't want to hear this but being amicable and making decisions without an attorney in my divorce is something I sincerely regret in my life. I thought I was being reasonable and amicable ... in reality I was being overrun by someone for whom my rights and needs were no longer a priority.  

We maintained a decently amicable relationship AFTER we got attorneys involved (when I started dating/married some guy in the military and moved counties)  but thinking it was better to hash it out ourselves was a mistake for me. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by theelfqueen

[Night Elf]

I had 50/50 parenting when I divorced my first husband. Our dd was 18 months old. I asked that he provide her medical insurance and pay her childcare no matter what it was and I didn't want alimony. The judge almost didn't grant me the divorce because he said I'd regret not getting alimony. I never did. I didn't need it. I was more concerned that my dd was taken care of. That agreement lasted until she started Kindergarten and by then he was remarried and his wife was a royal b*(tch. She took over the parenting and kept my child from me. I didn't regain custody until dd was 14 years old. I did go to an attorney who told me I'd lose the case because dd was firmly established in a neighborhood school and the home was stable and there was no need for a change. I had to wait for GA law that said a child at the age of 14 can choose which parent to live with. 

So in other words, what starts out amicable can turn ugly when child gets to school age. I was devastated to be the weekend parent. However, dd loved our home more and had no trouble signing the legal paperwork to come live with me. Turns out my home was more stable because DH and I didn't fight whereas her dad and stepmom would yell loudly and scare dd. DD also got spanked. I won't even go there.

[Scarlett]

He can get an attorney. But he is still going to need to talk to her. They cannot afford to fight this out in court. Not to mention there’s nothing really to fight over. She’s already agreed to 50-50 custody. And they do not have anything at value just  debt. 

[Toocrazy!!]

It is great that he is so willing to do the right thing for his child. 
But, I will agree with the lawyer thing. It’s just so easy for nice people to get taken advantage of when they’re trying to do the right thing. It just doesn’t work out with certain partners.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

I had 50/50 parenting when I divorced my first husband. Our dd was 18 months old. I asked that he provide her medical insurance and pay her childcare no matter what it was and I didn't want alimony. The judge almost didn't grant me the divorce because he said I'd regret not getting alimony. I never did. I didn't need it. I was more concerned that my dd was taken care of. That agreement lasted until she started Kindergarten and by then he was remarried and his wife was a royal b*(tch. She took over the parenting and kept my child from me. I didn't regain custody until dd was 14 years old. I did go to an attorney who told me I'd lose the case because dd was firmly established in a neighborhood school and the home was stable and there was no need for a change. I had to wait for GA law that said a child at the age of 14 can choose which parent to live with. 

So in other words, what starts out amicable can turn ugly when child gets to school age. I was devastated to be the weekend parent. However, dd loved our home more and had no trouble signing the legal paperwork to come live with me. Turns out my home was more stable because DH and I didn't fight whereas her dad and stepmom would yell loudly and scare dd. DD also got spanked. I won't even go there.

I’m sorry you went through that. This is more of what I’m telling him. That he has got to start out with it being very clear he will never except less than 50% time with his child. And of course he is aware they need to live near each other especially when the baby starts school. However I do not believe there was anyway to plan for every possible outcome. He just hast to do the best get can . And at this point the main thing is he has got to change his mindset about her. I can nearly guarantee you he is still hoping she will not divorce him. But she is long gone I can tell. 

[Scarlett]

And although I understand everyone’s concern about him getting a lawyer, I do not think that would magically solve the problems. They need to agree on things and then get an attorney or even a paralegal to write it up and follow up with the courts. The problem is he is doing more than he should in hopes that she will come back to him. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Scarlett

[theelfqueen]

Having an attorney doesn't mean you have to fight anything out anywhere.

It means you are getting sound advice about your rights and obligations. Agreeing on things without that advice can create long- term problems they can't foresee (because they're kids with a kid and when you have a one year old it is hard to imagine what middle school is going to look like... and that your life after your spouse might include different priorities)  but someone with more experience and knowledge can help him to see. 

50/50 custody sounds all well and good but like all legal situations has it's own challenges and pitfalls. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by theelfqueen

[Harriet Vane]

Scarlett, there is only one way for this to go. Down.

Get a lawyer.
 

It is totally possible to sign and file an agreement without a big court hassle.

I can promise, though, that the court hassle is not contingent on having a lawyer but on the ex’s choices. Which you cannot control.

The longer you try to finesse this along the more garbage happens.

Just focus on getting a good lawyer and take the guesswork out for dss.

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

And although I understand everyone’s concern about him getting a lawyer, I do not think that would magically solve the problems. They need to agree on things and then get an attorney or even a paralegal to write it up and follow up with the courts. The problem is he is doing more than he should in hopes that she will come back to him. 

That’s what I’ve been wondering—if he’s hoping she’ll come back. 😞 does your state have legal separation?  Usually there is a part of that which irons out the financials—whose responsible for what. 

[TechWife]

Scarlett - my heart hurts for your son. What you have described is truly terrible. Would he be willing to consult an attorney for an overview of what his rights are, a brief evaluation of his position  & what he can expect out of the divorce process? I understand what you’re saying about finances & divorce attorneys are pricey, but maybe a consult will help him set his course better. Also, don’t worry about him needing support at any attorney meetings. He can bring anyone with him for moral support &  to be an extra set of ears and maybe to ask questions. Since he is confiding in you & your husband, one of you would seem to be a natural choice. You could have a meeting with him specifically to plan the attorney meeting & go in with a list of questions that he has to make the most of limited time. He (or you or your dh) could also start a running list of questions as they come up. Your approach to asking him questions to get him to think is excellent. I can tell that you are approaching this in a loving way.  I hope we can continue to be a support to you and by extension, your son & grandchild. 

[chiguirre]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He can get an attorney. But he is still going to need to talk to her. They cannot afford to fight this out in court. Not to mention there’s nothing really to fight over. She’s already agreed to 50-50 custody. And they do not have anything at value just  debt. 

Even if they only have debt, they have to divide fairly between them. For starters, he needs to get the car she's driving but he's paying the note on back. She needs to either assume the note or get herself another car that she pays for. He needs to stop paying rent on the apartment he doesn't live in. Basically, he needs to financially disentangle himself from this relationship asap. Unfortunately, it looks like he'll need a lawyer to do that.

[fairfarmhand]

48 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I’m sorry you went through that. This is more of what I’m telling him. That he has got to start out with it being very clear he will never except less than 50% time with his child. And of course he is aware they need to live near each other especially when the baby starts school. However I do not believe there was anyway to plan for every possible outcome. He just hast to do the best get can . And at this point the main thing is he has got to change his mindset about her. I can nearly guarantee you he is still hoping she will not divorce him. But she is long gone I can tell. 

My brother did that "If I play nice maybe she'll change her mind and stay." and got to see his kids 4 days a month and loads of child support. It doesn't work. 

I am betting you are right. Even if it's not something he would say out loud, I bet he's got a deep down wish to restore his family and hope he can give her enough that she;ll say "OH I forgot, Scarlett's dss is such a nice guy, I should come running back!"

[HomeAgain]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

And although I understand everyone’s concern about him getting a lawyer, I do not think that would magically solve the problems. They need to agree on things and then get an attorney or even a paralegal to write it up and follow up with the courts. The problem is he is doing more than he should in hopes that she will come back to him. 

They need professional help, Scarlett.  Professional.  They need people who have done this, make a living at doing this, and know all the little bits and details that they might not think of at this moment.

You are saying that they need to do all the work of a professional first, and then have the professional sign off on it.  That's not how your son's rights are going to be protected.  That's how he's going to continue to be over his head.

Think of it this way: if he talked to an attorney right now, the attorney would start to draft up an agreement that not only contains things your ds wants, but things he may need.  Then ds would only have the position of looking at the agreement, saying yes, or asking for things to be tweaked.

Saying he's in too over his head right now for this kind of help is going to ensure he's never going to get what he needs at the level he needs it.  It will make sure that there will be more of a mess for an attorney to deal with later.

[Scarlett]

I was able to get him to see that her car is probably NOT upside down.  And that he needs to go with her to trade it in and let her finance something new into her name.  Or just even refinance this car into her name.

So he is going to talk to her and see if she will agree to do that.  That will take a burden off him and maybe he can think a little more clearly.

[Terabith]

Scarlett, the issue isn't the car.  It's EVERYTHING.  

He needs a lawyer, like yesterday.  This is an actual legal emergency.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, HomeAgain said:

They need professional help, Scarlett.  Professional.  They need people who have done this, make a living at doing this, and know all the little bits and details that they might not think of at this moment.

You are saying that they need to do all the work of a professional first, and then have the professional sign off on it.  That's not how your son's rights are going to be protected.  That's how he's going to continue to be over his head.

Think of it this way: if he talked to an attorney right now, the attorney would start to draft up an agreement that not only contains things your ds wants, but things he may need.  Then ds would only have the position of looking at the agreement, saying yes, or asking for things to be tweaked.

Saying he's in too over his head right now for this kind of help is going to ensure he's never going to get what he needs at the level he needs it.  It will make sure that there will be more of a mess for an attorney to deal with later.

Well, maybe, maybe not.  If she agrees to something reasonable then really there is literally no need to get an attorney especially through the 'talking' phase.  I have little faith that this situation will be solved by an attorney.  Again though he is 25 years old and is going to do what he is going to do....but he also does not have the money for an attorney.  

Since they have agreed to the custody and child support issue he just needs to get it in writing and get it signed by her and by the judge.  Maybe after he gets the car situation taken care of he will do that.  

I told him at lunch that he needs to be prepared to get an attorney if this all goes sideways....I think him pushing her about the car will tell a lot.

 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Scarlett, the issue isn't the car.  It's EVERYTHING.  

He needs a lawyer, like yesterday.  This is an actual legal emergency.  

It really isn't.  She kicked him out 4 months ago.  I don't see an emergency.  But I see all sorts of possibility for things to go sideways which is why he needs to get this settled with her if she will do it.

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

It really isn't.  She kicked him out 4 months ago.  I don't see an emergency.  But I see all sorts of possibility for things to go sideways which is why he needs to get this settled with her if she will do it.

The man is broke paying for things he isn't using. He is stressed, financially stretched, and doesn't have significant support. He is drowning, and your lifeline of talks does about as much good as a wheelbarrow on the Titanic.

This is an emergency.  You are wrong, and he will pay the price for that.  Everything is sideways already.

[Terabith]

Her agreeing means NOTHING.  Her saying, "Oh, yeah, no child support and 50/50 custody," is completely meaningless, because it's not a court order.  She could pick up the baby and go to New York tomorrow.  

Obviously, you guys are going to do what you want, but it really IS an emergency.  It might not kill him right this second, but by not seeing a lawyer NOW, it's going to lead to him owing lots of child support and not having access to the baby.  

Seriously, if he doesn't get a lawyer right away, kiss the baby good bye.  

[Terabith]

Plus, by him being broke, homeless, and paying for everything for her, he looks completely unstable and unsuitable for custody.  

[catz]

People who use mediation for divorce still use a lawyer.  If she is already manipulating things, I don't understand how they can move forward without a professional.  Also, he may have legal obligations or expectations that if aren't in the agreement could come back and bite him in the butt later if she flakes out and decides to sue for back payments because they didn't dot their i's on a self written agreement.  

If you google around about getting your name off a car loan it even suggests contacting a lawyer if an ex spouse won't refinance on their own.  I personally don't see any way around it with the way this is rolling.  

Edited November 11, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[theelfqueen]

I know that you are doing the very best you can and doing it with love. I am sure he appreciates it.  I know you've been divorced and so has your husband. I know you have wisdom to offer. 

I also think you are giving him the wrong advice and he needs a professional to guide him. 

Disentangling finances, especially when they are debts not assets, is complicated and has far-reaching legal consequences. Custody agreements made between individuals can be binding even whe  it turns out they were made under very mistaken circumstances. Planning the financial needs of a one year old come college age is complicated. 

Have him CALL attorneys or seek legal aid options. Meet with an attorney to help him see the aspects of this he isn't fully grasping. He is an adult and this impacts potentially the next 20 years of his life. He deserves professional guidance; and you and DH steering him away from that and telling him to just "talk to her" or "work it out together" is a disservice. I know you think you're encouraging him to take responsibility for his own mess and his own child and that is laudable but ... there's more to it than that.

If he agrees to something he should not - even not in writing, even outside of official realms, because he wants her to like him or to have a positive relationship- it could be devastating. 

[Annie G]

It feels like he’s in a really tough spot because too many things are in his name- the loans and the apartment. So she’s agreeing to no child support but she expects him to pay her rent and car payment. And it’s keeping him from having a place to live.  That’s not fair to him.  Tough spot for him because he clearly doesn’t want his credit ruined, but how to force her to realize she can’t keep the apartment she cannot afford. She tossed him out- she has to deal with the consequences of that.
Do you feel that she’s being fair with respect to finances? The ‘cut down on baby’s milk’s comment sounds manipulative.  Is baby off formula? 
Maybe a legal separation or filing divorce proceedings will open the door to more services like WIC, food stamps, Medicaid. 
A day job close to the baby’s daycare sounds promising, and maybe he can pick up something like door dash to earn some extra on days he doesn’t have his son. 
 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

After reading this whole thread, I think you, your son and your husband are expecting way  more stability and rationality out of this woman than she’s ever shown.  I would not trust anything she claims to agree until it’s agreed to in court.  And even afterward I would expect her to get her own attorney and find a loophole to change things. Especially if she’s already in some kind of relationship with someone in the military.  

[Scarlett]

He doesn't have the money for an attorney.  SMH.  And she has not yet really done anything (other than the milk comment) other than take what he is IMO foolishly offering.  So yes, if he puts together something and she refuses to sign off on it then he will have no choice but to get an attorney.  But I just really disagree with jumping to that before he even sees if she will sign off on something. 

If he wants to get an attorney he will.  We honestly are not trying to convince him NOT to....we are mainly concerned with his state of mind.....his thinking he is responsible for more things than he is.  

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I was able to get him to see that her car is probably NOT upside down.  And that he needs to go with her to trade it in and let her finance something new into her name.  Or just even refinance this car into her name.

So he is going to talk to her and see if she will agree to do that.  That will take a burden off him and maybe he can think a little more clearly.

This is one of the reasons I agree with many other posters that advice from an attorney would be helpful.  In some states, even if the car is financed in her name, if it is done while they are legally married, he is still legally responsible for the car loan.  

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

After reading this whole thread, I think you, your son and your husband are expecting way  more stability and rationality out of this woman than she’s ever shown.  I would not trust anything she claims to agree until it’s agreed to in court.  And even afterward I would expect her to get her own attorney and find a loophole to change things. Especially if she’s already in some kind of relationship with someone in the military.  

I am certainly not expecting stability or rationality out of her.  I think she is so uninterested that she will sign off on what he comes up with.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, Bootsie said:

This is one of the reasons I agree with many other posters that advice from an attorney would be helpful.  In some states, even if the car is financed in her name, if it is done while they are legally married, he is still legally responsible for the car loan.  

It could be considered marital debt yes, but that would be addressed in the dissolution of marriage...she takes the car and the debt with it/he takes his car and the debt with it.  

[Terabith]

If it were my child and it was remotely financially feasible for me to do, I would be offering to pay for at least a few legal sessions.  This is literally a disaster waiting to happen.  

[Bootsie]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It could be considered marital debt yes, but that would be addressed in the dissolution of marriage...she takes the car and the debt with it/he takes his car and the debt with it.  

The court can assign her the debt, but if she does not pay it, he may still be obigated to the lender, and it could still impact his credit score.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

The court can assign her the debt, but if she does not pay it, he may still be obigated to the lender, and it could still impact his credit score.  

He will not be obligated to the lender if his name is not on the note. Which is what he is trying to get accomplished.

[Hilltopmom]

If he can’t pay for an attorney, you should do everything in your ability to pay for one FOR him. This could be a lifelong disaster, for him and his child, your grandchild.

[Bootsie]

Just now, Scarlett said:

He will not be obligated to the lender if his name is not on the note. Which is what he is trying to get accomplished.

This depends on state law; I do not know what it is in Oklahoma, but I have lived in states in which a spouse is legally obligated to the lender even if they were not aware the debt was taken out, did not sign any paperwork, and their name does not appear on the loan.

[Harriet Vane]

This is a legally binding agreement for eighteen years that controls his finances and his access to his own child and even more. The money for legal counsel needs to be found. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

48 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am certainly not expecting stability or rationality out of her.  I think she is so uninterested that she will sign off on what he comes up with.  

Do you think she’ll stick with it though?

I’ve seen an awful lot of these types of agreements get modified/changed/not hold up in court when one party changed their mind down the road.