50/50 parenting

[Scarlett]

Our oldest son is getting a divorce.  They have a year old  baby.  Supposedly, his STBXW has agreed to 50/50 custody and no child support.  I have been poking around the web looking at various options.  My sister has always done the week on/week off.  I think it is the most simple to pull off, but not sure if she will agree to that.  

Do any of you have any insight to these type of 50/50 shared parenting plans? Or any of the apps that are out there?

[Spryte]

I don’t know about apps or more recent stuff for managing time, but we did 50/50 way back when. Though — we still paid CS, but I guess that can vary. I have some thoughts:

Bigger blocks of time are better, saner, and healthier for the kid—especially as child gets older. Week on/week off at a minimum, maybe morphing into 2 weeks on/off by high school. Whatever you do, every other other night is not healthy! Kids need to sleep in the same bed more than one night in a row. Summer time can be even longer blocks of time.

Map out all the “holidays” ahead of time. Including things like parent birthdays, minor holidays, school holidays, etc. we had a ridiculously long list that was crazy detailed. Things can get contentious even if they aren’t now. Weird things like pick up/drop off times changing for holidays that are at night (4th of July).

 

[amyx4]

I've got a relative that did one week on/on week off.  Day care was in the middle of the two homes. That worked very well for a number of years. When they child got to kindergarten, the parents picked a private school in the same area as the daycare.

This probably varies by state, but with a 50/50 split the parents I know need to live in the same public school district. I would not worry about Kindergarten just yet.

Edited November 1, 2021 by amyx4

[WildflowerMom]

My cousin does 50/50 with her ex.  She doesn’t live in the same district, just drives them further to school than he has to.  But from what I gather; it works well for them.  Boys are very settled in both homes.  

[catz]

I think that is a good choice and easier for kids in the long term.  Especially for older school age kids that have consistent school schedules and parents that live in close range.

But I do think it can depend on work schedules and need for and choice of childcare if both parents are working since we're talking about a 1 year old.  

Edited November 1, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Amy in NH]

My ex wanted 50/50, but lived 2 hours away. 

It was misery for their entire childhood - they were never able to fully participate in any activity/work experience and missed out on a lot.

[Spryte]

11 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

My cousin does 50/50 with her ex.  She doesn’t live in the same district, just drives them further to school than he has to.  But from what I gather; it works well for them.  Boys are very settled in both homes.  

Oh, yes. This is a good point. You might consider addressing school areas in advance. We did not, and DSS’s bio mom moved further away. By the end of high school, we had a morning commute that ranged from 90-120 minutes depending on traffic. Every other day. The after school commute was slightly easier as long as it wasn’t in rush hour — more in the 60 min range, IIRC. It was a hike.

[Scarlett]

 

45 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

My ex wanted 50/50, but lived 2 hours away. 

It was misery for their entire childhood - they were never able to fully participate in any activity/work experience and missed out on a lot.

Yes, this is what we are trying to get him to understand......he needs to live and work near his stbxw and near the day care.   Or be near us so we can offer some support.  It is a mess right now.

[Scarlett]

54 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Oh, yes. This is a good point. You might consider addressing school areas in advance. We did not, and DSS’s bio mom moved further away. By the end of high school, we had a morning commute that ranged from 90-120 minutes depending on traffic. Every other day. The after school commute was slightly easier as long as it wasn’t in rush hour — more in the 60 min range, IIRC. It was a hike.

I am not even sure where the mom is moving to.  I think into the city of Tulsa.  But the baby is only a year old......a lot can change in the next 5 years (he has a late August bd so I don't think he will go to school for 5 years)

[saraha]

Growing up we spent weekends and school breaks with my dad during the school year and in the summer we spent  week days with him and weekends with my mom. Both worked so there was a sitter when needed. It worked out great for my mom since she worked while we were in school and on weekends so paying a sitter fell to my dad, who made more money

Edited November 1, 2021 by saraha

[hippymamato3]

For a toddler, it would be better to do a 2/2/3/3 schedule than an entire week away from either parent IMO.

[Miss Mousie]

Two weeks on/off may be worth considering.  At every switch of custody there is a readjustment period that can be difficult, and it may be easier on the child to have a longer term, including a weekend without travel/upheaval.

Also, I like the idea of the child staying in the same home and the parents swapping out for their custody period.  If the parents can agree on an apartment to be used for non-custodial periods (and can be mature enough to keep both places clean and in good order), then there will still be only two households to maintain, and the child will have more stability (and not need two wardrobes, two favorite blankies/bed toys, two toothbrushes, etc.).

 

[Scarlett]

Just now, hippymamato3 said:

For a toddler, it would be better to do a 2/2/3/3 schedule than an entire week away from either parent IMO.

Except for the travel.  Ugh.  I just feel so bad for this baby....on the other hand he is a baby so maybe it won't be so hard for him.

[catz]

These situations go best if both parents are willing to compromise to the benefit of the child.  That means living close together, agreeing on child care, coordinating and alerting each other of work schedules if possible,  figuring out what might work best for their particular toddler, agreeing on some basic guidelines for parenting, etc etc etc.  

It's a good sign she is willing to go 50/50.  But they have a lot to work out that is going to need to work for both of them.   A 50/50 split might not be the best for every child in every situation.

Edited November 1, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Sweets]

I have experience with a very similar situation. My son and his Ex divorced when my grandchild was 18 months. At first, I had the baby since 6 months old due to work schedules and their fighting. But, eventually the court decided on 50/50 custody. My son had to pay child support since there is a formula they use to decide on both parents income and usually the parent making the most money pays a percentage for child support. That part I felt was very unfair. It is $500 monthly. My grandchild is 7 now, and things are more settled. Both parents live within the same county, about 30 minutes apart. My grandchild goes to school near to her mom's place. We are all trying to maintain a polite but distant relationship. I never, ever say anything derogatory about my Ex-DIL. She has made a lot of mistakes, but she has improved her life situation. However, just yesterday, she once again did the no show so she could attend a party. My granddaughter was at my house waiting on her mom to come and do her Halloween makeup. Her mom texted - can't come - but later posted pictures of a Halloween party she was at. My granddaughter was in tears and so mad and yelling at me. I get this a lot from her. My granddaughter is a smart little girl, and she sees me as more mom than a grandma. I think I'm the one person she can really "unload" on, but boy that rage is hard to deal with at my age (61). Her father was just like this at 7 too, but I was younger. Anyway, I'm kind of on a tangent here. Halloween was saved when my son took my granddaughter off to a neighbor lady to do makeup. My makeup job was pretty bad. Maleficent is not so easy to do with "old lady makeup." 

My advice is to try to stay close to your son during this but tread carefully:  Try not to give advice to your son. I really butted in too much. Give what is needed:  lots and lots of babysitting in our case as well as now we are driving to school and soccer practices. My granddaughter has her own room at our house, which really helps her because she has her own safe area to come to and not share, except with the dogs who insist on sleeping with her when she's here. My son's job requires him to travel a lot, so we often have my granddaughter during his custody week. My Ex-DIL doesn't have a problem with us keeping my granddaughter. I've worked very hard to create a trust relationship with my EX-DIL so that she knows we take good care of my granddaughter. My Ex-DIL I think likes us, and she really, really likes the week on, week off because she can do the things that she wants to do without worrying about a babysitter. It just leaves my husband and I practically raising another child, because we seem to always be the ones doing all the not fun stuff:  sickness, homework, temper tantrums.  If possible, create a room in your home for your grandchild. Stay in touch with the Ex-DIL but do not get drawn into any discussions about your son. I just limit it to anything to do with my granddaughter. I never, ever comment on things my Ex-DIL does in her personal life, especially on social media. And, just be there. Your grandchild needs stability. We are luck in that we live in the same county too as my son, so distance isn't a problem. 

In fact, ex-DIL wanted to move to another state at the divorce but courts said no:  must reside within the same county, same state until child is 18 years old or give up 50/50 custody. Same goes for my son, who has had to turn down lucrative job offers out of state. So, the divorce will only dissolve the marriage but the parents are still tied to each other's lives because of the limitations placed by the courts. It's a very tricky situation. Focus on your grandchild is my best advice. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Miss Mousie said:

Two weeks on/off may be worth considering.  At every switch of custody there is a readjustment period that can be difficult, and it may be easier on the child to have a longer term, including a weekend without travel/upheaval.

Also, I like the idea of the child staying in the same home and the parents swapping out for their custody period.  If the parents can agree on an apartment to be used for non-custodial periods (and can be mature enough to keep both places clean and in good order), then there will still be only two households to maintain, and the child will have more stability (and not need two wardrobes, two favorite blankies/bed toys, two toothbrushes, etc.).

 

I just can't imagine this works for many parents.  I am very close to someone who shares custody of his child with child's mom....they live in houses side by side and the child goes back and forth between houses on a flexible schedule.  They each see the child every single day.  But it is a very unusual situation.....neither have friends of opposite sex over ever.  And they are older.  Mid 30s when child was born.  I don't know how they pull it off and I don't think most people could.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Sweets said:

I have experience with a very similar situation. My son and his Ex divorced when my grandchild was 18 months. At first, I had the baby since 6 months old due to work schedules and their fighting. But, eventually the court decided on 50/50 custody. My son had to pay child support since there is a formula they use to decide on both parents income and usually the parent making the most money pays a percentage for child support. That part I felt was very unfair. It is $500 monthly. My grandchild is 7 now, and things are more settled. Both parents live within the same county, about 30 minutes apart. My grandchild goes to school near to her mom's place. We are all trying to maintain a polite but distant relationship. I never, ever say anything derogatory about my Ex-DIL. She has made a lot of mistakes, but she has improved her life situation. However, just yesterday, she once again did the no show so she could attend a party. My granddaughter was at my house waiting on her mom to come and do her Halloween makeup. Her mom texted - can't come - but later posted pictures of a Halloween party she was at. My granddaughter was in tears and so mad and yelling at me. I get this a lot from her. My granddaughter is a smart little girl, and she sees me as more mom than a grandma. I think I'm the one person she can really "unload" on, but boy that rage is hard to deal with at my age (61). Her father was just like this at 7 too, but I was younger. Anyway, I'm kind of on a tangent here. Halloween was saved when my son took my granddaughter off to a neighbor lady to do makeup. My makeup job was pretty bad. Maleficent is not so easy to do with "old lady makeup." 

My advice is to try to stay close to your son during this but tread carefully:  Try not to give advice to your son. I really butted in too much. Give what is needed:  lots and lots of babysitting in our case as well as now we are driving to school and soccer practices. My granddaughter has her own room at our house, which really helps her because she has her own safe area to come to and not share, except with the dogs who insist on sleeping with her when she's here. My son's job requires him to travel a lot, so we often have my granddaughter during his custody week. My Ex-DIL doesn't have a problem with us keeping my granddaughter. I've worked very hard to create a trust relationship with my EX-DIL so that she knows we take good care of my granddaughter. My Ex-DIL I think likes us, and she really, really likes the week on, week off because she can do the things that she wants to do without worrying about a babysitter. It just leaves my husband and I practically raising another child, because we seem to always be the ones doing all the not fun stuff:  sickness, homework, temper tantrums.  If possible, create a room in your home for your grandchild. Stay in touch with the Ex-DIL but do not get drawn into any discussions about your son. I just limit it to anything to do with my granddaughter. I never, ever comment on things my Ex-DIL does in her personal life, especially on social media. And, just be there. Your grandchild needs stability. We are luck in that we live in the same county too as my son, so distance isn't a problem. 

In fact, ex-DIL wanted to move to another state at the divorce but courts said no:  must reside within the same county, same state until child is 18 years old or give up 50/50 custody. Same goes for my son, who has had to turn down lucrative job offers out of state. So, the divorce will only dissolve the marriage but the parents are still tied to each other's lives because of the limitations placed by the courts. It's a very tricky situation. Focus on your grandchild is my best advice. 

Dh and I are definitely on board to do what we need within our means to help them.  Dss is completely lost.  He has ZERO clue what to do next.  Honestly if we do not give him some advice I think he will completely sink.  For instance, he is thinking he will get his deposit back on their apartment and use it for an attorney.  We said, 'son, if she is agreeing on custody and no child support you do not need an attorney.'  He thought he needed an attorney to check with DHS on how much his child support would be if she asks for child support.  I explained to him that info is readily available on line and I had already looked it up.  And furthermore if they agree on things they don't need an attorney at all.

Ugh.

[Spryte]

18 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am not even sure where the mom is moving to.  I think into the city of Tulsa.  But the baby is only a year old......a lot can change in the next 5 years (he has a late August bd so I don't think he will go to school for 5 years)

Yes, a lot can change. But it will also sneak up on everyone, time will fly, you know? And it might not seem like a big deal when she moves a bit further away every couple years—until it’s time to start school, and oops, the school that baby will attend is almost two hours away!

I would focus on the current needs, but depending on the  bio mom’s personality and her likelihood to create difficulties and drama, I think there is the potential to agree to some things in advance—now, while there is possibly a higher likelihood of amicability. 

But — my history is informing anything I say. My DSS’s bio mom was mentally ill, very smart, and very calculating. And soooo hostile. Sigh. It does color my experiences and any advice I can offer.

Don’t quote this part, but for clarity, so no one thinks I’m trash-talking my DSS’s bio mom … I rarely talk about her here, or any place other than my stepmom support group (waving hi to the one member here that is also a member there!) — my experience was way beyond normal complaining about an ex. Bio mom was diagnosed with multiple mental illnesses, and has since lost the battle. She was well and truly ill, and DH, DSS, DS, and I bore the brunt of it for decades. I am always sad to think of her, and how she lived, how she must have felt inside. But her actions absolutely inform how I look at arranging any custody split, and I always think, “Protect yourself!”

[Spryte]

21 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

For a toddler, it would be better to do a 2/2/3/3 schedule than an entire week away from either parent IMO.

I actually think a parenting plan that starts this way, for a toddler, then slowly steps up to longer periods as the child gets older is best, too, if that can be in writing with agreed upon times to begin stepping up the length of time with each parent, with the introduction of new, longer periods starting each summer so it doesn’t coincide with other huge changes like a new school year. Summers seem like a good time to lengthen periods with each parent. 

But I’d want it in writing, agreed in advance, having lived through the experience of someone rigidly never budging from EO night from toddlerhood till HS graduation. 

 

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I actually think a parenting plan that starts this way, for a toddler, then slowly steps up to longer periods as the child gets older is best, too, if that can be in writing with agreed upon times to begin stepping up the length of time with each parent, with the introduction of new, longer periods starting each summer so it doesn’t coincide with other huge changes like a new school year. Summers seem like a good time to lengthen periods with each parent. 

But I’d want it in writing, agreed in advance, having lived through the experience of someone rigidly never budging from EO night from toddlerhood till HS graduation. 

 

I agree.  Not sure how she will feel about it.  And also the less complicated the better.  

[Scarlett]

I think first step is he has to get a day job.  

[Annie G]

I’m not so sure he doesn’t want to have an attorney at least look over the divorce agreement to make sure his rights are protected. 
 

My ex and I divorced when oldest Dd was 1, and thankfully my attorney knew what things to include for down the road…school years, for instance. I didn’t know because I was a first time mom going through a divorce I didn’t want.  Ex didn’t have an attorney, and he should have. But mine spelled out how every holiday and summer vacation would work. We were free to agree to changes but it spelled out the minimum. Also spelled out child support parameters and increases.  We never had to go back to court to modify anything.  And today we are able to get together at dd’s to enjoy the grandkids, share a holiday meal, etc.    Attorney involvement doesn’t mean it will be more contentious…just to be sure your son know what he’s agreeing to. 
 

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, but glad he has you in his corner.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Annie G said:

I’m not so sure he doesn’t want to have an attorney at least look over the divorce agreement to make sure his rights are protected. 
 

My ex and I divorced when oldest Dd was 1, and thankfully my attorney knew what things to include for down the road…school years, for instance. I didn’t know because I was a first time mom going through a divorce I didn’t want.  Ex didn’t have an attorney, and he should have. But mine spelled out how every holiday and summer vacation would work. We were free to agree to changes but it spelled out the minimum. Also spelled out child support parameters and increases.  We never had to go back to court to modify anything.  And today we are able to get together at dd’s to enjoy the grandkids, share a holiday meal, etc.    Attorney involvement doesn’t mean it will be more contentious…just to be sure your son know what he’s agreeing to. 
 

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, but glad he has you in his corner.

Having an attorney means spending a lot more money.  If they have agreed to 50/50 parenting and no child support I can't see how an attorney will benefit them.  I spoke with our friend who is a paralegal last night and she can help them do it themselves.  

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Spryte said:

Yes, a lot can change. But it will also sneak up on everyone, time will fly, you know? And it might not seem like a big deal when she moves a bit further away every couple years—until it’s time to start school, and oops, the school that baby will attend is almost two hours away!

 

 

The trouble is neither of them is stable enough ATM to even know what school district to put down!  They are both just all over the map.

[Scarlett]

I just called about a day care here in our town.....$160 a week.  And of course they have to be paid even when he isn't there.  So using two different day cares is not going to work at all.  

[fairfarmhand]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I just called about a day care here in our town.....$160 a week.  And of course they have to be paid even when he isn't there.  So using two different day cares is not going to work at all.  

Plus he will do better having the same caregivers in the same environment from week to week, regardless of how much of an inconvenience it is for everyone involved. 

What dss needs to do is set himself up as the most stable adult in the situation. Even if he never revisits custody issues, this will benefit his son. And if he does feel the need to revisit custody issue, being super stable will be looked upon favorably.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Plus he will do better having the same caregivers in the same environment from week to week, regardless of how much of an inconvenience it is for everyone involved. 

What dss needs to do is set himself up as the most stable adult in the situation. Even if he never revisits custody issues, this will benefit his son. And if he does feel the need to revisit custody issue, being super stable will be looked upon favorably.

Although I agree with the bolded we are thinking that both son and grandbaby would benefit more by having dh and I nearby to help.  We have an apt on our property he could live in until he gets a better plan.  I have been calling around and gathering up options and one of our closest friends will provide childcare every other week.  She has a baby same age as grandbaby.

And definitely agree with your last paragraph.  That is what we are trying to get him to see....like....get a day job, get a place to live, be able to show you have family support.  

[ktgrok]

Have in writing that either parent cannot move more than X amount of distance away without either prior consent of the other person OR agreement of the court. 

[Murphy101]

5 hours ago, Amy in NH said:

My ex wanted 50/50, but lived 2 hours away. 

It was misery for their entire childhood - they were never able to fully participate in any activity/work experience and missed out on a lot.

I was going to say this. Whether 50/50 works greatly depends on how close the parents live to each other and their work  schedule needs. 

The only ones I’ve seen it work well for have lived literally in the same neighborhood. And worked the same times/days.  They were also very committed to their kids extracurriculars so that didn’t become an issue. 

Everyone else found it very difficult and eventually changed things. 
 

Aldo’s child support is tricky. Who is claiming the child on their taxes?  Who is going to be required to provide medical coverage and to what level? Who will pay deductibles and copays and things not covered (like braces not an issue now but it could be asthma kids or whatever you never know). These issues should be mandated in the divorce decree. 

[Murphy101]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Have in writing that either parent cannot move more than X amount of distance away without either prior consent of the other person OR agreement of the court. 

Or at least that if they move more x miles away from the child - they are entirely responsible for picking up and dropping off and maintaining school and extracurricular attendance during their time.  If they miss x amount of weeks, then the courts will decide child support to be paid. 

[Murphy101]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Having an attorney means spending a lot more money.  If they have agreed to 50/50 parenting and no child support I can't see how an attorney will benefit them.  I spoke with our friend who is a paralegal last night and she can help them do it themselves.  

Bottom line is it is ALWAYS smarter to have an attorney help you handle legal matters. They have a lot experience and insight that will help prevent problems later.  They are a 3rd party to ask questions and say things that frankly aren’t well received from family and friends. It may be that after getting a lawyer, the lawyer makes all the paperwork they’ve agreed to easier to process properly. But it may also be that the lawyer is going to note things like not paying child support is going to look really bad to the court if he ever needs to return on a custody issue - even if it was agreed to.  Truth is the best way to secure his paternity rights is with a lawyer.

court = lawyer in this house

For all the bad rap people give lawyers, almost no one is better off in any court of any kind without one.  Most divorce lawyers in our area will give a helpful starting point consult for under $200.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Murphy101

[QueenCat]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am not even sure where the mom is moving to.  I think into the city of Tulsa.  But the baby is only a year old......a lot can change in the next 5 years (he has a late August bd so I don't think he will go to school for 5 years)

Is he already working with a lawyer. He can get it in writing that neither party can move more than a certain distance away without the approval of the other. I've known several people who've done this so their kids didn't live far away. But if they move before something's in place, then the other parent doesn't have to move. One friend got approval to move but by doing so, she was required to do all transport getting him to/from dad for his time. This meant flights a few times a year.

[Scarlett]

19 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I was going to say this. Whether 50/50 works greatly depends on how close the parents live to each other and their work  schedule needs. 

The only ones I’ve seen it work well for have lived literally in the same neighborhood. And worked the same times/days.  They were also very committed to their kids extracurriculars so that didn’t become an issue. 

Everyone else found it very difficult and eventually changed things. 
 

Aldo’s child support is tricky. Who is claiming the child on their taxes?  Who is going to be required to provide medical coverage and to what level? Who will pay deductibles and copays and things not covered (like braces not an issue now but it could be asthma kids or whatever you never know). These issues should be mandated in the divorce decree. 

Yes I agree.  Those are things that need to be agreed upon.

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Bottom line is it is ALWAYS smarter to have an attorney help you handle legal matters. They have a lot experience and insight that will help prevent problems later.  They are a 3rd party to ask questions and say things that frankly aren’t well received from family and friends. It may be that after getting a lawyer, the lawyer makes all the paperwork they’ve agreed to easier to process properly. But it may also be that the lawyer is going to note things like not paying child support is going to look really bad to the court if he ever needs to return on a custody issue - even if it was agreed to.  Truth is the best way to secure his paternity rights is with a lawyer.

court = lawyer in this house

For all the bad rap people give lawyers, almost no one is better off in any court of any kind without one.  Most divorce lawyers in our area will give a helpful starting point consult for under $200.

That is exactly the opposite of my real life experience in the state of OK.  We gave an attorney $1000s and he did exactly nothing for us.  We gave up even getting a basic agreement in writing that dss20 would be living with us (when he was 15 onward) and that we would not pay her support but she would pay us.  The stupid attorney that we had (and he has a very well known name that you would probably recognize) made mistake after mistake and delayed so long we just worked something out directly with bio mom.  

Dh went to court on his own before I was in the picture and got his cs reduced from $900 to $400 when she drug him into court trying to get it increased to something over $900.  

 

[Murphy101]

Also in Oklahoma he may not have the choice about paying child support if the child is going to be listed on any state assistance program. So keep that in mind. Again. A lawyer will inform him of the many things he and you probably aren’t even thinking of. 

For example you are thinking about school as kindergarten, but most people use preschool or the head start even if they aren’t working.  And that starts at age 3.

There’s just so much to consider and it all happens so fast. But lawyers tend to be strategists too. Having someone who can see where the path is likely to head is well worth the expense. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

Is he already working with a lawyer. He can get it in writing that neither party can move more than a certain distance away without the approval of the other. I've known several people who've done this so their kids didn't live far away. But if they move before something's in place, then the other parent doesn't have to move. One friend got approval to move but by doing so, she was required to do all transport getting him to/from dad for his time. This meant flights a few times a year.

No he is not.  And yes it is a good idea that they have to agree to stay in a certain area.  The area is already so large it is ridiculous.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

Also in Oklahoma he may not have the choice about paying child support if the child is going to be listed on any state assistance program. So keep that in mind. Again. A lawyer will inform him of the many things he and you probably aren’t even thinking of. 

For example you are thinking about school as kindergarten, but most people use preschool or the head start even if they aren’t working.  And that starts at age 3.

There’s just so much to consider and it all happens so fast. But lawyers tend to be strategists too. Having someone who can see where the path is likely to head is well worth the expense. 

Yes I am aware of that.  It is one of the things we need to find out from dss.  Not sure if they are getting any assistance.  But again, I have very little confidence in an attorney.  

[Murphy101]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That is exactly the opposite of my real life experience in the state of OK.  We gave an attorney $1000s and he did exactly nothing for us.  We gave up even getting a basic agreement in writing that dss20 would be living with us (when he was 15 onward) and that we would not pay her support but she would pay us.  The stupid attorney that we had (and he has a very well known name that you would probably recognize) made mistake after mistake and delayed so long we just worked something out directly with bio mom.  

Dh went to court on his own before I was in the picture and got his cs reduced from $900 to $400 when she drug him into court trying to get it increased to something over $900.  

 

I get it. No matter how divorce goes - it’s going to suck like an poo clogged industrial toilet. 

A good lawyer won’t guarantee anything but they will tell you honestly about the judges and what is most likely and how to navigate that.

It can cost 1000s. But generally, so does parenting.  I can PM you a couple lawyer references. But I’ll be honest. They won’t talk to you. The young man will have to talk to them himself.  I’d recommend having a consult with 2-3 before deciding. Yes. It’s a lot of money. But also. He is literally trying to protect his parental rights. Worst case, he’s out the money and rights, but he did all he could. Best case is worth the money. Also, some lawyers work with mediators to make that process go better. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing wrt to getting a lawyer. 
 

eta:  I get being skeptical about a lawyer.  I’m all there with you. But you have a lot of questions that a lawyer could answer better than us. And really your dss needs legal help.  It is what it is and not liking it won’t make it better or easier.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Murphy101

[KungFuPanda]

A friend did week on week off. Both houses were in the same school district. One thing that saved a ton of stress was doing the trade off on Monday. It prevented either parent from handing over a kid on Sunday afternoon/evening with unfinished homework. Our district loves homework. 

[Scarlett]

39 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I get it. No matter how divorce goes - it’s going to suck like an poo clogged industrial toilet. 

A good lawyer won’t guarantee anything but they will tell you honestly about the judges and what is most likely and how to navigate that.

It can cost 1000s. But generally, so does parenting.  I can PM you a couple lawyer references. But I’ll be honest. They won’t talk to you. The young man will have to talk to them himself.  I’d recommend having a consult with 2-3 before deciding. Yes. It’s a lot of money. But also. He is literally trying to protect his parental rights. Worst case, he’s out the money and rights, but he did all he could. Best case is worth the money. Also, some lawyers work with mediators to make that process go better. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing wrt to getting a lawyer. 
 

eta:  I get being skeptical about a lawyer.  I’m all there with you. But you have a lot of questions that a lawyer could answer better than us. And really your dss needs legal help.  It is what it is and not liking it won’t make it better or easier.

I don’t expect an attorney to talk to me.  🤷🏻‍♀️ Dss and his wife need to figure it out. But he doesn’t  even know where to start . 

[Scarlett]

54 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Also in Oklahoma he may not have the choice about paying child support if the child is going to be listed on any state assistance program. So keep that in mind. Again. A lawyer will inform him of the many things he and you probably aren’t even thinking of. 

For example you are thinking about school as kindergarten, but most people use preschool or the head start even if they aren’t working.  And that starts at age 3.

There’s just so much to consider and it all happens so fast. But lawyers tend to be strategists too. Having someone who can see where the path is likely to head is well worth the expense. 

Not sure what changes by whether he is in day care or preschool. 

[TechWife]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am not even sure where the mom is moving to.  I think into the city of Tulsa.  But the baby is only a year old......a lot can change in the next 5 years (he has a late August bd so I don't think he will go to school for 5 years)

In our state both custodial parents have to agree to it if one wants to move. This is true even for those who don’t do the 50/50 split. A judge has to sign off on any changes in the custody agreement that results to make sure one parent isn’t depriving the other of access to the children. Parents have been known to take each other back to family court when one or the other wants to make a move that changes the child’s school district and the parent that is against the changes surrounding the move has a fair chance of making their case. People have declined transfers, promotions & made decisions about completing graduate work as a result.  Not only does he need to pay attention to custody, he needs to clarify in writing how decisions are to be made made about health care, both routine and emergency, a time frame for when the other parent is to be notified of any changes or hospitalizations, who can great permission for routine, scheduled surgery. There are a host of decision making authority decisions surrounding child care & school as well. He really needs to hire the best lawyer he can afford. 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by TechWife

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, TechWife said:

In our state both custodial parents have to agree to it if one wants to move. This is true even for those who don’t do the 50/50 split. A judge has to sign off on any changes in the custody agreement that results to make sure one parent isn’t depriving the other of access to the children. Parents have been known to take each other back to family court when one or the other wants to make a move that changes the child’s school district and the parent that is against the changes surrounding the move has a fair chance of making their case. People have declined transfers, promotions & made decisions about completing graduate work as a result.  Not only does he need to pay attention to custody, he needs to clarify in writing how decisions are to be made made about health care, both routine and emergency, a time frame for when the other parent is to be notified of any changes or hospitalizations, who can great permission for routine, scheduled surgery. There are a host of decision making authority decisions surrounding child care & school as well. He really needs to hire the best lawyer he can afford. 

 

This made me laugh.  I have lived through one parent doing many many things against the custody order and NOTHING was done.  
It is very easy for one of the parents to just ignore whatever they want.  One’s best best is to have some general guidelines and work for a cooperative relationship but not even be surprised when it goes wrong.  

[catz]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This made me laugh.  I have lived through one parent doing many many things against the custody order and NOTHING was done.  
It is very easy for one of the parents to just ignore whatever they want.  One’s best best is to have some general guidelines and work for a cooperative relationship but not even be surprised when it goes wrong.  

That has less to do with the agreement and more to do with the 2nd parent not following up through the legal process.  I get how that is too much some people and why single parents would lose patience and give up in some cases.  But having a bad experience with custody agreements isn't a good reason to just assume it doesn't matter.  It would be much better if they go into it with the idea of establishing a working co parenting relationship.

At a minimum, I would have someone intimately familiar with family law comb through the agreement to make sure it's open ended enough for years to come and is good for the baby and all legally on the up and up.  Some places will require child support if the standard of living across the 2 homes will be drastically different and that is better for the kids too.  Almost everyone I know locally has used mediation for their divorces, but they do contract lawyers to make sure there isn't anything in the paperwork that may bite them later. 

[City Mouse]

There are lawyers that offer free initial consultation. Your DSS might find that helpful even just for information gathering.

After just a few minutes of googling I found some potential resources. https://www.okbar.org/a2j/resources/

Edited November 2, 2021 by City Mouse

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Not sure what changes by whether he is in day care or preschool. 

For one. Preschool via head start is free but limited to the district that a parent lives in. For another, cost is a major factor.  Who’s going to pay for it should be discussed. 

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t expect an attorney to talk to me.  🤷🏻‍♀️ Dss and his wife need to figure it out. But he doesn’t  even know where to start . 

Okay. Your son needs help to figure out a legal matter with life-long consequences for his future relationship with his son. Seems to me the best way to do that is to at least consult one or a few attorneys. If he were my kid, I’d help him start there.  Hope it all works out in the end for him and grand baby. 

[Melissa Louise]

With a toddler, I'd want to do nesting. Child stays in his home, parents take turns staying with child. Child also attends a single daycare. 

I think the plan needs to start with the needs/rights of the one year old. 

I assume the toddler is not still nursing? 

 

[KungFuPanda]

15 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

With a toddler, I'd want to do nesting. Child stays in his home, parents take turns staying with child. Child also attends a single daycare. 

I think the plan needs to start with the needs/rights of the one year old. 

I assume the toddler is not still nursing? 

 

I see people suggesting this, but I don't understand how it works in families that can't afford three addresses.  I get the part where the child stays in one place, but surely the parents don't share the non-kid address? They're certainly not going to share two addresses amicably.  

I understand the ds eventually needing a day job, but while the child is a baby can they make his opposite shift work for them?  He could live close enough to provide daytime care.  He'll want to live close enough for convenient access to the mother's place anyway.  They're young.  She's GOING to meet someone else and he's going to have to work to maintain regular access.  If it's a long drive, it'll be easier and easier to let that access slip away; especially when HE meets someone else.  He might as well work towards employment and living space that is convenient to his child's future school.  This assumes the mother even knows where she's landing.  What do these parents do for a living?

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I see people suggesting this, but I don't understand how it works in families that can't afford three addresses.  I get the part where the child stays in one place, but surely the parents don't share the non-kid address? They're certainly not going to share two addresses amicably.  

I understand the ds eventually needing a day job, but while the child is a baby can they make his opposite shift work for them?  He could live close enough to provide daytime care.  He'll want to live close enough for convenient access to the mother's place anyway.  They're young.  She's GOING to meet someone else and he's going to have to work to maintain regular access.  If it's a long drive, it'll be easier and easier to let that access slip away; especially when HE meets someone else.  He might as well work towards employment and living space that is convenient to his child's future school.  This assumes the mother even knows where she's landing.  What do these parents do for a living?

That nesting thing is sharing the second home.  Who would want to do that?  Not me and I would never recommend my adult child try it.  
 

His night shift work is completely erratic.  I can’t keep up with it.  He does security work, she works at a farm store of sorts…..retail work.  
 

So it isn’t like either of them is making big money.   I Just did the ds calculator and he would owe her 136 per month if they share custody.  
 

I agree they need to live near each other. But I don’t even know where she lives.  He said he doesn’t know either.  I mean, she is moving this weekend, so I assume he will know…

It is all crazy. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

48 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

With a toddler, I'd want to do nesting. Child stays in his home, parents take turns staying with child. Child also attends a single daycare. 

I think the plan needs to start with the needs/rights of the one year old. 

I assume the toddler is not still nursing? 

 

She hasn’t nursed since baby was 3 months.