I can't decide whether to be angry or just shake the dust off my feet and move on

[DawnM]

Foster son has been at this particular preschool for a year now.   The church is huge on being "for the orphan" and even has Christmas events for foster children to come and get free gifts, etc....

We thought, "great, this is perfect."

Nope.....he has had some behavior issues (tantrums) and they have decided they can no longer handle them.

Guess he is getting kicked out.

So much for the "we are for the orphan" slogan.

Edited October 30, 2021 by DawnM

[JustEm]

I'm sorry. Just move on and know for the future not to recommend that church as a place for people looking for support.

[catz]

I'm sorry!  I'm sure many of us on this board who had to/forced to pull a child from an educational setting at one time or another can relate.  I also got to the point where I thought if some teacher/setting combo isn't working well, there's probably a better option out there for my kid.  I hope you find even a better fit that nurtures and understands your sweet boy!  ❤️ 

I get this would be especially frustrating if it's your own church.  If it might be gratifying to put some online reviews out with your experience, that might be good info for other families looking?

Edited October 30, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[DawnM]

I feel like asking if I can go in there and offer Trauma Informed Classroom lessons to the teachers......but I don't have the energy.

[TheReader]

((((Hugs)))) I'm so very sorry. 

I hope you're able to find a good, safe place for him, where he feels loved and valued. 

[Calm37]

15 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I feel like asking if I can go in there and offer Trauma Informed Classroom lessons to the teachers......but I don't have the energy.

Perhaps you could recommend someone else who could do this? It would bless other families and children, too. I think this is the problem with so many church programs - that the heart behind things like this doesn't translate into good execution.

[Longtime Lurker]

I have been in this situation as well, where my DS with special needs has too serious of special needs to fit in a special needs program. That always hurts worse than just not fitting in a regular program. I totally understand how a church that claims to minister to foster children, but cannot handle their unique needs, would be especially hurtful.

[KungFuPanda]

If they are serious about that mission, they need to look into training for it. It’s not enough to have their hearts in the right place. In your position, I’d look for care elsewhere, but I’d have this conversation with them. If they intend to only serve orphans that don’t have ANY behavioral issues, then they’re not really about serving the children. These kids are going to need more for a variety of reasons. If they’re making this claim, then staffing with grandmas who just love children and want to keep busy a few days a week, they’re not really committed. 

[Tap]

I am another who has had a child removed from a daycare setting. I got to the point, that I provided one-with-one staff for just my daughter (at a different day care). She still went to daycare but had her own staff member to assist her while she was there. An agency helped to pay for her staff member, but I also helped to cover the cost. Having a special needs child can be so expensive and exhausting!!! 

I will say one thing tho, if they don't feel that they can care for him, it is better that they let you know. Some places try to force a fit and then someone gets hurt, or staff quit. I am glad that they are recognizing thier limits, to continue providing safe care for other children, and caring for thier staff as well. 

I am sad that this wasn't a good fit for you or your son and now you need to find a new situation. 😞

[Dmmetler]

Check with Head Start. Usually foster children are automatically eligible, and while it’s not a typical enrollment period, might well have a mid-year opening. They’re going to be a lot more used to dealing with behaviors that come with trauma than most preschools are. Title I or special Ed Pk would also be an option, but Head start, in my experience, is more likely to make an effort to find a mid-year slot. 

[DawnM]

His therapist has gone in twice.   She said she has never been in a preschool with such small classrooms and so many kids.   She said normally there are places for kids who have meltdowns to go and have a cozy corner minute or something.   These classrooms are so small there is no extra space for that.

Quote

 

 

[Ali in OR]

I hope you can find a better option out there. A church isn't as likely to have access to the training and resources that help with kids like my dd (now an adult!). You might find something tied into (can't even remember all the right terms) the birth--age 3 and then preschool resources provided by the county (here) that eventually tie into all the various resources available in a public school that are NOT available at private/church schools. Things like behavioral/autism specialists, OT, PT, Speech, Vision resources--all that goes with the public system (our Educational Service District in Oregon) but not small private systems. As well-meaning as this school/church may be, they probably just don't have the resources needed.

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Check with Head Start. Usually foster children are automatically eligible, and while it’s not a typical enrollment period, might well have a mid-year opening. They’re going to be a lot more used to dealing with behaviors that come with trauma than most preschools are. Title I or special Ed Pk would also be an option, but Head start, in my experience, is more likely to make an effort to find a mid-year slot. 

The closest one is over 20 miles away.   Unfortunately.   I have read that they are phasing Head Start programs out in favor of school districts offering preschool programs.

I do see one 3.5 miles from my work, but the hours may be an issue, I will contact them and see what their hours are/any afterchool care, etc....

Shoot, just realized that probably won't work, my job is talking about having us work from home 3 days per week, so there is no way I will drive 80 miles a day for him to go to preschool.

Edited October 30, 2021 by DawnM

[prairiewindmomma]

Right, but those school programs have the integrated care Ali mentioned. They also make for a smoother transition to kindergarten because the kids are usually working with the same PT/OT/SL-P teams. In addition, the staff is all trained in trauma response. Here they have a behavioral response team integrated into every school in my district with feeder schools for kids with known issues. (My kids don’t need that level of care but every student has access to the calm down rooms and there are morning yoga classes for all.) 

A good fit school can be so, so much better than a church preschool. BTDT.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

We had a really bad experience with a church related preschool.  Granted, it was before we fully understood the extend of DS’ behavior issues or I wouldn’t have sent him, but we did know he had autism and alerted them before enrolling. Apparently their view of autism was very different than reality.  He lasted a week.

Public school preschool didn’t go much better. We eventually had to pursue out of district placement because even our public school was so small(great for my other kids) and didn’t have behavior supports.

Its frustrating, but I’ve found that churches generally don’t have the resources or knowledge to deal with any kind of behaviors.

[Jann in TX]

((Dawn))

I'm sorry. 

I would not blame the church though-- at least they are being honest-- they are just not set up to deal with the issues that your fs has.  I'm sure the church preschool would also not be prepared to offer OT or PT services to students with other special needs...  This is beyond the scope of what a few hours of training could provide-- it would take a dedicated staff member (1 on 1) with that particular training in order to assure the safety of your fs, the teacher and the other students.

Not all foster children have behavior/trauma issues-- but SOME DO.  Not all children have special needs-- but SOME DO.  I'm a parent--and 2 of my 3 children fell into a 'SOME DO' category and ended up being asked to leave programs that were not able to provide the support my children needed (one was a public school!!) -- our journey continued in a different direction that what I had planned-- but it was not the fault of the facility.

I would continue your search for a new preschool that has the specific training and resources to support your fs. 

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, Jann in TX said:

I would not blame the church though-- at least they are being honest

Yeah, it could be worse. They could be castigating him and telling him some mantra about his behaviors being because he's a sinner. But they didn't and they actually said they can't meet his needs. 

I think @prairiewindmomma is right on that you are going to want the next step to be considering where he's going after that. Are you planning to homeschool him or enroll him? Fwiw, some of the therapy clinics around here offer preschool level social thinking and emotional regulation classes. Sounds like it might be time. And getting him in a ps program that has evals could be a way to make that happen, which you already know. or private evals.

It's hard when your dc is both so wonderful and needing some help. 

[SKL]

Hugs.  I hope you find a good placement for him.  As others have said, this could be a blessing in disguise if you find a place that understands his needs better.

[MooCow]

I am so sorry Dawn! My oldest was kicked out of a preschool as well, but it ended up being the best thing for him. What a craptacular church. 

Eta: my youngest was in a mother's Day out program, and there was talk of him being asked to leave. However his teacher was so awesome she just agreed to move up with him and basically he was her little buddy. It also helped that the director understood that not all children fit into perfect little boxes. It ended up being a wonderful place for him and I pray that you find a wonderful place for your little man.

Edited October 30, 2021 by MooCow

[gardenmom5]

I've been debating something similar.  This actually helps answer my question.  Just move on.  You can't teach a pig to sing.  When someone shows you who they are - believe them.

There are preschools out there that can actually work with, and help, kids with challenges.  The hard part is finding one with an opening.

[Catwoman]

Ugh! I'm so sorry, Dawn! You already have so much on your plate, and this is just one more huge stress to deal with. I hope you can find a new place for your little guy very quickly, and that he isn't sad about not being able to go back to this one. Did they at least give you some advance warning so you have a little time to find a new place and he has time to say goodbye to his friends?

I feel so sad for both of you. 😞 

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm so sorry.  It's tough finding a preschool with trauma informed care. I am glad they admitted they can't handle it; they're just not qualified.

[LifeLovePassion]

I'm sorry, I've also been excluded because my kids didn't fit neatly into the children's programming offered at a church. 

His needs may qualify him for an IEP and special ed preschool. You could check with your district to see if they have a good fit. 

[Kassia]

I'm sorry too and really wish it had worked out.  😞  

[DawnM]

57 minutes ago, LifeLovePassion said:

I'm sorry, I've also been excluded because my kids didn't fit neatly into the children's programming offered at a church. 

His needs may qualify him for an IEP and special ed preschool. You could check with your district to see if they have a good fit. 

I don't think so.   It is very much a trauma response and not a disability.   I thought of getting him evaluated but even if he qualified for an IEP, it wouldn't be a self contained class, which are the only preschools for 3 year olds in the district.   

Edited October 30, 2021 by DawnM

[Hilltopmom]

I’d try to avoid Head Start unless it’s one tied to a special Ed preschool provider agency. They are big on hiring their parents as staff members and the quality is lacking in most I’ve been in (I’ve worked at or been a special Ed visiting teacher in many). They just don’t have the money for training and the staff is typically uneducated without even a CDA license (expect for the head teacher). However, they are used to kids with delays and behavior issues but don’t necessarily handle them as they should. 

Good luck. I’d try to get him in your local school district universal preschool program if you can. I know slots are hard to come by in lots of places.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

It is very much a trauma response and not a disability.

There's quite a bit of information now about the effect of trauma on interoception (self awareness) and narrative language. Doesn't have to be a disability to benefit from intervention. 

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

There's quite a bit of information now about the effect of trauma on interoception (self awareness) and narrative language. Doesn't have to be a disability to benefit from intervention. 

He must have a disability that makes him eligible for a self contained classroom environment in order to have preschool for free through the schools.   That is what I was saying.

[DawnM]

29 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I’d try to avoid Head Start unless it’s one tied to a special Ed preschool provider agency. They are big on hiring their parents as staff members and the quality is lacking in most I’ve been in (I’ve worked at or been a special Ed visiting teacher in many). They just don’t have the money for training and the staff is typically uneducated without even a CDA license (expect for the head teacher). However, they are used to kids with delays and behavior issues but don’t necessarily handle them as they should. 

Good luck. I’d try to get him in your local school district universal preschool program if you can. I know slots are hard to come by in lots of places.

 

Unfortunately, we don't have that near me.  

[Longtime Lurker]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

Hugs.  I hope you find a good placement for him.  As others have said, this could be a blessing in disguise if you find a place that understands his needs better.

This is true. When we were told DS (then 6) had to leave the ASD room at the local elementary and go to the center based school instead, we were devastated. However, the special ed school has been the best thing that has ever happened to him, with wonderful staff and the ability to meet his (very serious) needs. Now he is less than three years from aging out of school and I will be so sad for him when it ends. But it has been such a blessing.

[PeterPan]

48 minutes ago, DawnM said:

He must have a disability that makes him eligible for a self contained classroom environment in order to have preschool for free through the schools.   That is what I was saying.

https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2869&context=hlr  2016 article suggesting they should have a subcategory of ED that specifies trauma and leads to trauma specific supports. In the meantime, the other workaround would be to use the testing to get him qualified under language. The TNL=Test of Narrative Language starts at 4.0, so he's almost there.

It seems incomprehensible that schools are not finding some kind of workaround to get kids with obvious needs qualified. 

[PeterPan]

58 minutes ago, DawnM said:

eligible for a self contained classroom environment

I'm pretty sure when my ds' disabling condition was ED that's the type of classroom he was assigned to. Not saying I like ED as the label, just saying it could be a way and be pragmatic.

[DawnM]

58 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2869&context=hlr  2016 article suggesting they should have a subcategory of ED that specifies trauma and leads to trauma specific supports. In the meantime, the other workaround would be to use the testing to get him qualified under language. The TNL=Test of Narrative Language starts at 4.0, so he's almost there.

It seems incomprehensible that schools are not finding some kind of workaround to get kids with obvious needs qualified. 

We have 4 year old preschool that he may qualify for without being SPED, but you have to be 4 by September 1st.   He was not.   In order to be in the 3 year old class he has to have a severe disability that would require him to be in a self contained classroom, like Down's, more severe Autism, etc....

I don't think it is incomprehensible for schools not to accommodate every need from ages 1-4.

[Janeway]

I am angry. So yeah, I would find a different church.

[LifeLovePassion]

5 hours ago, DawnM said:

I don't think so.   It is very much a trauma response and not a disability.   I thought of getting him evaluated but even if he qualified for an IEP, it wouldn't be a self contained class, which are the only preschools for 3 year olds in the district.   

Oh bummer. Again, I'm sorry. I hope you can find a good solution for him. 

[DawnM]

Update:

He qualifies for Head Start in our county, but the location is 17 miles each way on back roads, so it will take 35 min. each way twice a day.   My husband can't take off that kind of time to transport him back and forth.

And I thought maybe he could go to the one near my work, but it turns out that he doesn't qualify because we don't live in that county AND the school day is 9-3 and I don't get off work for another hour and a half after the end of the school day.

So, head start is out.

Everywhere I have called is either full, no longer a functioning preschool, or is astronomically expensive.   We do NOT get the child care vouchers so we have to pay with his subsidy.   

Back to the drawing board.

[prairiewindmomma]

Can you hire a college kid or a young mother to drive him to school? Is there a daycare near the preschool that offers extended hours care? Here kindercare and a number of other places do bus pickup and offer services through 5:30-6:00pm.

 

[DawnM]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Can you hire a college kid or a young mother to drive him to school? Is there a daycare near the preschool that offers extended hours care? Here kindercare and a number of other places do bus pickup and offer services through 5:30-6:00pm.

 

It would have to be someone uber reliable, and off hand I dont' know of anyone.   They said they do have bus service but the bus is full and there is a waitlist.   The last thing I want to do is hire someone who I dont' really know and have them decide they can't do it after a few weeks.

I would literally be asking them to work one hour in the morning and one hour in the afternoon, which I doubt anyone wants to be tied to with nothing in between if they want to actually have a job, and a young mother would have trouble during nap times and I dont' know any young mothers near me.   Plus, I am not sure I am allowed to do that with a foster child.

And I was paying $20/day for him to stay in preschool from 9-1.   How much would I need to pay someone to drive him back and forth for 2 hours per day?   I think that would end up costing even more.

And no, there isn't bus pick up and after school stuff for preschoolers, it starts in Kindergarten.

Edited November 8, 2021 by DawnM

[Scarlett]

Thinking outside the box…..can you utilize the Head start near you when you work and then hire a mother’s helper for the days you work from home?

[itsheresomewhere]

Odd thought-  is there a community college or local college to you that has a daycare/preschool program? Around here, it is used for training/experience those who are pursuing an education degree.  They are not always advertised.  

[katilac]

57 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Thinking outside the box…..can you utilize the Head start near you when you work and then hire a mother’s helper for the days you work from home?

She said he doesn't qualify for that one. 

[Innisfree]

Depending on how long it is, I would be tempted to get on the waiting list for the bus. 

[DawnM]

46 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Odd thought-  is there a community college or local college to you that has a daycare/preschool program? Around here, it is used for training/experience those who are pursuing an education degree.  They are not always advertised.  

we had those in CA, although they were for older students who needed daycare for their own children while they studied to get a job (not the general public).   I have looked and haven't found any here.

[DawnM]

26 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Depending on how long it is, I would be tempted to get on the waiting list for the bus. 

They said it is long.   And you have to be at the school/enrolled to get on the wait list.   She implied it would most likely not be something to get this school year.

[Frances]

Any possibility of carpooling to the local Headstart until you get off the waitlist for the bus? Do they add a second bus when the waitlist gets long enough?

[DawnM]

47 minutes ago, Frances said:

Any possibility of carpooling to the local Headstart until you get off the waitlist for the bus? Do they add a second bus when the waitlist gets long enough?

No, no 2nd bus and I don't think there is a possibility, most of our low income students who use the program are on the other side of the county and most of our foster kids around here get vouchers to local preschools, which we didn't qualify for and don't get.

[Tap]

Have you reached out to this organization to verify that you don't qualify for day care assistance? 

As foster parents, income doesn't usually matter, because a foster child is in a different category. I know it gets complicated when there is an interstate compact, so this agency may not be able to help you. If you have an interstate compact, you may reach out to that worker to see if you can get some assistance that you are not aware of.  Even if they can't pay for daycare, sometimes they can pay extra foster dollars for unique situations to help bridge the gap. For instance, dd used to get extra foster dollars as a special needs child, due to a dairy allergy. It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was a way for the worker to give us extra funds to offset other expenses. She wasn't diagnosed as special needs yet, but it was obvious from her issues at that time. 

 

Even if you are certain that bulk of his issues are due to trauma, any diagnosis they give him can help him get supports. Sometimes, supports are the same as other diagnosis, so it doesn't matter what is on paper. So trauma resources may be similar to autism resources. Yes, it is ideal to get exactly what a child needs, but sometimes we need to just accept 'close enough'. (((((hugs))))) it shouldn't be this hard. 

 

 

[DawnM]

13 hours ago, Tap said:

Have you reached out to this organization to verify that you don't qualify for day care assistance? 

As foster parents, income doesn't usually matter, because a foster child is in a different category. I know it gets complicated when there is an interstate compact, so this agency may not be able to help you. If you have an interstate compact, you may reach out to that worker to see if you can get some assistance that you are not aware of.  Even if they can't pay for daycare, sometimes they can pay extra foster dollars for unique situations to help bridge the gap. For instance, dd used to get extra foster dollars as a special needs child, due to a dairy allergy. It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was a way for the worker to give us extra funds to offset other expenses. She wasn't diagnosed as special needs yet, but it was obvious from her issues at that time. 

 

Even if you are certain that bulk of his issues are due to trauma, any diagnosis they give him can help him get supports. Sometimes, supports are the same as other diagnosis, so it doesn't matter what is on paper. So trauma resources may be similar to autism resources. Yes, it is ideal to get exactly what a child needs, but sometimes we need to just accept 'close enough'. (((((hugs))))) it shouldn't be this hard. 

 

 

Yes, we dont' qualify because he is a foster child from out of state.   We would need voucher from NC and since he is a ward of the state of Nevada, we aren't given the child care subsidy.   

We are getting some $$ from Nevada and will continue to receive it after he is adopted.   He qualifies for the adoption subsidy due to his emotional delays.

 

[DawnM]

I may have found a place.  

A church near us says they will have an opening in December.   One caveat, he has to be potty trained first!   He really wants to go back to a preschool, so maybe this will help him get motivated.

[TheReader]

11 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I may have found a place.  

A church near us says they will have an opening in December.   One caveat, he has to be potty trained first!   He really wants to go back to a preschool, so maybe this will help him get motivated.

Oh, I hope so! Praying for this to work out, on both fronts.