Adult ADHD without meds?

[Ann.without.an.e]

What do you do? Has anything helped other than medication and what have you tried that has been a bust?  Would love for you to share your experiences and what has/hasn't worked for you or someone close to you!

I think I've dealt with it my whole life but the last year or so it has been far worse and I'm not functioning well. I need something but really don't want to resort to prescription meds unless I have to.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Ann.without.an.e

[PeterPan]

Well most people I know self medicate with caffeine or Mountain Dew, usually while also saying it's a sin to take ADHD meds, snort.

In theory l-tyrosine is a precursor and there are some studies that attempt to dose it and get effects similar to vyvanse. You'll see occasional studies on this or that, but most don't seem to get very far.

I guess I don't care about my ADHD, but my name is Peter Pan remember.

Edited October 27, 2021 by PeterPan

[Terabith]

My husband has ADHD that he manages with precise amounts of coffee.  And in pre-covid times, lots of heavy physical exercise. But honestly, I have a couple friends who have ADHD and anxiety and never treated the ADHD because they thought the anxiety was the real issue, but when they tried ADHD meds, the anxiety dissipated almost entirely.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Well most people I know self medicate with caffeine or Mountain Dew, usually while also saying it's a sin to take ADHD meds, snort.

In theory l-tyrosine is a precursor and there are some studies that attempt to dose it and get effects similar to vyvanse. You'll see occasional studies on this or that, but most don't seem to get very far.

I guess I don't care about my ADHD, but my name is Peter Pan remember.

I don't think it is a sin to take them. They advance aging (not exactly a side effect I desire) and have a plethora of other negative side effects I just wouldn't prefer to deal with. I know it isn't wrong to take them, I just prefer not to 🙂 

Are you pretty productive in spite of your ADHD? That's great 🙂 

[marbel]

Most people I know rely on coffee or other forms of caffeine. It's not a matter of being against prescription meds per se (I know absolutely no one who considers it a sin, even among conservative Christians) but rather cost and accessibility.  Caffeine has it's own side effects too, of course. I know someone who cannot get to sleep without a cup of coffee right before bed. They say it helps their racing brain to settle down.

[PeterPan]

20 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

They advance aging (not exactly a side effect I desire) and have a plethora of other negative side effects I just wouldn't prefer to deal with.

I've never heard anyone say they cause aging. Interesting. They also lower your risk of car accidents, which prevents death. 😉 The meds are mostly methyl donors, so they can aggravate irritability. They're $$ depending on your insurance. What you might do, in all seriousness, is ask your doc to *try* them. That will let you feel what it's like so you can decide and benchmark how well your other alternatives are working. I did that with an anxiety med. Tried it, didn't like the side effects, but realized I could feel a LOT better than I was and that I needed to do more. I've had adult friends try meds and go off, and I think it was this way for them too, sort of educational.

20 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Are you pretty productive in spite of your ADHD?

Oh mercy, I'm very tired right now from pneumonia and have done 100 sessions of HBOT over the last 9 months to treat head injuries. I'm probably not the right person to ask about productivity, lol. On the other hand, is my propensity to injury connected to impulsivity? Hahaha, probably. I'm pretty much on an if it takes a helmet don't do it order these days, lol.

No, reality is that if you don't bump the chemistry side, you're looking at cognitive strategies. We've had book lists, and your library will have a lot of those books. Go to amazon too and search "adult adhd" "adhd organizing" etc. and see what pops up. Pretty much I've just tried to get those books from the library and up my game. Like my desk used to always be a horror show, and I read a tip in That Crumpled Paper was My Homework about NO LOOSE PAPER. Now remember, I write EVERYTHING. So now I buy a mountain of spiral notebooks when they're on sale for back to school and I use them. Everythign I write and research, unless it's tossable like a note for groceries or something, goes in those notebooks. I fill and file. I ought to toss, but I haven't the heart, lol. Now it's true, right now on my desk I have *4* of those because I haven't filed them. Refer back to pneumonia and head injury, lol.

So it's stuff like that. You just read the books and go through your life a bit at a time and up your game. More alarms, more timers, more use of my phone to keep me organized, more apps that sync across devices (Things, Calendars5, Microsoft To Do, and Bear), etc. I put things on auto that I can and I'm very honest about where I need structures/outsourcing to keep me on track. Like if my dh died, I would *pay* someone to handle my finances and not even try. Maybe that's not you, but I'm Peter Pan lol. 

I do mindfulness/body scanning every day, and a brief 5 minute session of mindfulness can bump your EF 30%. I also keep a pulse oximeter beside my bed (mainly because I have asthma and keep tabs on my levels), and I use that to try to *feel* my heart. This too is an act of mindfulness, not complicated, and again it's bumping EF. The more I do things like this, the more centered and focused I am. When I don't have pneumonia, I go to the gym, use the steam room, lift weights, etc., which also helps me feel more collected. Meeting my extrovert social needs also keeps me more energized and collected. 

So there are evidence based practices like that (mindfulness, exercise, etc.) and then your cognitive strategies and accommodations. I took sudafed (ostensibly for allergies) all through college and grad school, and they said sudafed can be a hack way to do meds, dunno. That may be why I got through. I think if you're having trouble being productive *in spite of using cognitive strategies* I would also consider whether *other* things are involved, like anxiety (which again has genetics, ways to treat beside meds), low vitamin D, whatever. For me, my productivity is because of how I function with ALL those things. I've worked on ALL those things and together they make me more productive. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by PeterPan

[Matryoshka]

19 minutes ago, marbel said:

Most people I know rely on coffee or other forms of caffeine. It's not a matter of being against prescription meds per se (I know absolutely no one who considers it a sin, even among conservative Christians) but rather cost and accessibility.  Caffeine has it's own side effects too, of course. I know someone who cannot get to sleep without a cup of coffee right before bed. They say it helps their racing brain to settle down.

Sucks to be me, as caffeine has no effect on me whatsoever (doesn't keep me awake, doesn't focus me or settle me down.  Coffee is a nice hot drink, is all.).  I have thought off and on about getting meds, then wondered if caffeine does nothing, would they?  I hate to take meds- I barely take tylenol.  Most of my life I've managed to cope, and have had a variety of coping mechanisms.  It was worst when the kids were in middle/high school and I was juggling just too many things and the coping mechanisms didn't always keep up.  Now they're grown and things have settled, I can't gather the energy to bother.  

Edited October 27, 2021 by Matryoshka

[PeterPan]

Actually, the worst part for me is what the psych politely described as "your energy level is offputting." Rough! Literally, I go somewhere and I might be the MOST in the room, the most loud, the most enthused, the most whatever. And that's a self awareness thing to tone it down, ramp it down. But to me, that's fun, that's normal, and it's not like I want to be someone else. Sometimes people like that and in some situations it's like WOW. Catch22, can't win, sigh. 

I think you can sort through yourself honestly like that, what your biggest issues are and what you are looking to improve. You could look at the l-tyrosine, because it's has studies to back it up. It's crazy cheap too.

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

5 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I've never heard anyone say they cause aging. Interesting. They also lower your risk of car accidents, which prevents death. 😉 The meds are mostly methyl donors, so they can aggravate irritability. They're $$ depending on your insurance. What you might do, in all seriousness, is ask your doc to *try* them. That will let you feel what it's like so you can decide and benchmark how well your other alternatives are working. I did that with an anxiety med. Tried it, didn't like the side effects, but realized I could feel a LOT better than I was and that I needed to do more. I've had adult friends try meds and go off, and I think it was this way for them too, sort of educational.

Oh mercy, I'm very tired right now from pneumonia and have done 100 sessions of HBOT over the last 9 months to treat head injuries. I'm probably not the right person to ask about productivity, lol. On the other hand, is my propensity to injury connected to impulsivity? Hahaha, probably. I'm pretty much on an if it takes a helmet don't do it order these days, lol.

No, reality is that if you don't bump the chemistry side, you're looking at cognitive strategies. We've had book lists, and your library will have a lot of those books. Go to amazon too and search "adult adhd" "adhd organizing" etc. and see what pops up. Pretty much I've just tried to get those books from the library and up my game. Like my desk used to always be a horror show, and I read a tip in That Crumpled Paper was My Homework about NO LOOSE PAPER. Now remember, I write EVERYTHING. So now I buy a mountain of spiral notebooks when they're on sale for back to school and I use them. Everythign I write and research, unless it's tossable like a note for groceries or something, goes in those notebooks. I fill and file. I ought to toss, but I haven't the heart, lol. Now it's true, right now on my desk I have *4* of those because I haven't filed them. Refer back to pneumonia and head injury, lol.

So it's stuff like that. You just read the books and go through your life a bit at a time and up your game. More alarms, more timers, more use of my phone to keep me organized, more apps that sync across devices (Things, Calendars5, Microsoft To Do, and Bear), etc. I put things on auto that I can and I'm very honest about where I need structures/outsourcing to keep me on track. Like if my dh died, I would *pay* someone to handle my finances and not even try. Maybe that's not you, but I'm Peter Pan lol. 

I do mindfulness/body scanning every day, and a brief 5 minute session of mindfulness can bump your EF 30%. I also keep a pulse oximeter beside my bed (mainly because I have asthma and keep tabs on my levels), and I use that to try to *feel* my heart. This too is an act of mindfulness, not complicated, and again it's bumping EF. The more I do things like this, the more centered and focused I am. When I don't have pneumonia, I go to the gym, use the steam room, lift weights, etc., which also helps me feel more collected. Meeting my extrovert social needs also keeps me more energized and collected. 

So there are evidence based practices like that (mindfulness, exercise, etc.) and then your cognitive strategies and accommodations. I took sudafed (ostensibly for allergies) all through college and grad school, and they said sudafed can be a hack way to do meds, dunno. That may be why I got through. I think if you're having trouble being productive *in spite of using cognitive strategies* I would also consider whether *other* things are involved, like anxiety (which again has genetics, ways to treat beside meds), low vitamin D, whatever. For me, my productivity is because of how I function with ALL those things. I've worked on ALL those things and together they make me more productive. 

 

This is all really really good info and very helpful. I am sorry about your head injuries. 

Is there a resource or two (book, etc) that stands out to you as a must read?  I have a difficult time focusing enough to read (or watch a movie or tv, etc). So if I can only read 1 or 2 - what would you suggest 😊

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

caffeine has no effect on me whatsoever

Maybe you have adrenal fatigue? 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Just now, PeterPan said:

Actually, the worst part for me is what the psych politely described as "your energy level is offputting." Rough! Literally, I go somewhere and I might be the MOST in the room, the most loud, the most enthused, the most whatever. And that's a self awareness thing to tone it down, ramp it down. But to me, that's fun, that's normal, and it's not like I want to be someone else. Sometimes people like that and in some situations it's like WOW. Catch22, can't win, sigh. 

I think you can sort through yourself honestly like that, what your biggest issues are and what you are looking to improve. You could look at the l-tyrosine, because it's has studies to back it up. It's crazy cheap too.

 

I'm not the most anything. I'm very quiet. Tired all the time. 

You sound fun 🙂 

[PeterPan]

Just now, Ann.without.an.e said:

Is there a resource or two (book, etc) that stands out to you as a must read?  I have a difficult time focusing enough to read (or watch a movie or tv, etc). So if I can only read 1 or 2 - what would you suggest

Oh shoot, you don't wanna know how I read, lol. I used to describe it as a rabbit on speed. 🤣  I read the front, the back, and skim the middle. By that point enough usually makes sense that I'm bored and don't bother. I've read like 2 or 3 books "properly" in the past 10 years. All the rest I read like that. One I was trying to learn about was on a speech therapy method and I *thought* I understood it. Well apparently I took that SLPs evidence TOTALLY INVERSE of how she meant it, and only after recommending the book and method a whole bunch of times did I find out that the book/SLP was saying to do the OPPOSITE of what I was doing! LOL

Now on that, actually I was right and that SLP was, well let's just say I disagree with how she interprets her evidence. She's seeing what she's seeing, but she's cracked in how she's saying to treat it. And my results were good and I'm right. 

But yeah, my habits are not conducive to thorough reading. My mother hated the way my brain works, lol. Oh well.

Books. Um. Anything by Hallowell and anything that catches your eye from amazon. What is bugging you most? When I wanted to solve my desk, that's what I worked on. So I narrowed it down to "ADHD + organization" and ADHD+ house, ADHD+cleaning, that kind of thing. Oh foo, I'm trying to look on amazon and you're right the stuff I read is not showing up!

https://www.amazon.com/That-Crumpled-Paper-Last-Week/dp/0399535594/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33IIOGL8GNRT2&dchild=1&keywords=that+crumpled+paper+was&qid=1635365473&sprefix=that+crumpled+paper+was%2Caps%2C74&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Executive-Function-Difficulties-Adults-Productive/dp/1683730984/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=adhd+housekeeping&qid=1635365517&sprefix=adhd+house%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-8&asin=1683730984&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1  Here, I have not read this book but it's *new*, reflects a lot of the new research, and hits a lot of the basics I was suggesting to you (mindfulness, exercise, cognitive strategies).

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Tired all the time.

Why are you tired?

Like I get being tired, adrenal fatigue, etc., btdt. But are you tired because you're disorganized and haven't been taking care of yourself? 

6 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I'm very quiet.

Aw shucks, lucky. See that's what people like and it makes you look smart and competent and all that. 

I think you just have to embrace who you are and not try to be someone else. Or maybe find middle ground and explore what it's like to be things that are more fringe for you (introvert trying to be outgoing, loud person reigning it in, etc.). But if you're making yourself *unhealthy* because you're not taking care of yourself or acknowledging yourself or not giving yourself what you need to be your best, that's not cool.

How does your ADHD most show up? What are you most wanting to improve?

[PeterPan]

To me psych evals are the starting point, not the ending point. You start this journey where you learn about yourself. You get a bit nutty as you fall in a rabbit hole of oh everything is the diagnosis. Then you come out the other side and you see yourself as multifaceted and capable. You will get to where you feel more empowered and confident. It just takes some time to sort through that, to realize what you're seeing, to change the things you can change and accept the things you can't. 

Like me, I can (with difficulty, haha) reign it in for a while and be more quiet. Or I can go be who I really am and go CRUISE. 🤣

[klmama]

Ann, are you perhaps dealing with depression or sleep issues?  Low ferritin can affect sleep, and poor sleep can cause depression. Sleep apnea can be a problem. Low thyoid can affect focus and energy and mood, too.  Adrenal fatigue was mentioned above.  You might ask your doctor for a workup. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by klmama

[PeterPan]

14 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I have a difficult time focusing enough to read (or watch a movie or tv, etc).

Have you ever had your eyes checked by a developmental optometrist? Do you have any issues understanding speech when there is background noise? 

There are other things besides ADHD that could be causing what you're describing, and they're treatable. Many people with ADHD turn out to have some retained reflexes, etc. Not everyone, but some. And those retained reflexes can both make your body uncomfortable *and* glitch the developmental processes for vision, auditory processing, midline, vestibular, etc. 

If you want, you can google tests for retained reflexes and look at them on youtube and see if you have any. It's fascinating stuff. 

Btw, have you tried watching youtube at 2X or turning up the speed on audiobooks? Now I'm super horrible with audiobooks, but I do all my youtube on at least 1.5X now, and often 1.75 or even 2X. Way, way better. 

[PeterPan]

4 minutes ago, klmama said:

You might ask your doctor for a workup. 

Amen.

When I started taking care of myself, I ended up with thyroid meds, some treatable causes for my anxiety (b6, etc.), asthma I wasn't dealing with, etc. It's WAY easier to think, focus, feel well, and use cognitive strategies when you FEEL WELL. 

And, fwiw the time in my life I couldn't really was when I was really sick with MCS/CFS. I was a hot mess. It's not wise to assume the cause is ADHD if you're not feeling well overall.

Edited October 27, 2021 by PeterPan

[Matryoshka]

39 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Maybe you have adrenal fatigue? 

I don't think so. I've got lots of energy,  and it's not a new thing. I missed caffeine working the most in college, 'cause I couldn't use it to stay up late and study.  My theory is I'm missing some caffeine receptor at the molecular level, lol. There are others in my family who are the same, so likely genetic somehow.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, Matryoshka said:

caffeine receptor

Oh THAT'S an interesting idea. Most genetics reports will kick out for caffeine metabolism. Hmm. If more people in your family are like this, that does sound intriguingly genetic. There are genes they track for response to stimulant meds too, so it's a known thing. It shows up if you run 23andme raw data through promethease.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

This is all really really good info and very helpful. I am sorry about your head injuries. 

Is there a resource or two (book, etc) that stands out to you as a must read?  I have a difficult time focusing enough to read (or watch a movie or tv, etc). So if I can only read 1 or 2 - what would you suggest 😊

What happens when you put it on audiobook at 2x speed?

Dh cannot read a book and finish it.  He can't even sit through a normal podcast. When he cranks the speed, though, he discovered that he really likes audiobooks.

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

What happens when you put it on audiobook at 2x speed?

Dh cannot read a book and finish it.  He can't even sit through a normal podcast. When he cranks the speed, though, he discovered that he really likes audiobooks.

I find I can concentrate on audiobooks if I'm doing something else mindless... driving, tidying, playing solitaire on my phone. 

Youtube videos I always crank to 1.75 speed...

[TravelingChris]

5 hours ago, Terabith said:

My husband has ADHD that he manages with precise amounts of coffee.  And in pre-covid times, lots of heavy physical exercise. But honestly, I have a couple friends who have ADHD and anxiety and never treated the ADHD because they thought the anxiety was the real issue, but when they tried ADHD meds, the anxiety dissipated almost entirely.  

My anxiety issues are almost always related to my problems due to both ADHD and executive function issues.  I basically panic over losing things, forgetting things, etc.

I am on a pretty low dose of Adderall and it helps but only works for 2- 4 hour periods basically and I am much more likely to panic outside of that time.

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Actually, the worst part for me is what the psych politely described as "your energy level is offputting." Rough! Literally, I go somewhere and I might be the MOST in the room, the most loud, the most enthused, the most whatever. And that's a self awareness thing to tone it down, ramp it down. But to me, that's fun, that's normal, and it's not like I want to be someone else. Sometimes people like that and in some situations it's like WOW. Catch22, can't win, sigh. 

I think you can sort through yourself honestly like that, what your biggest issues are and what you are looking to improve. You could look at the l-tyrosine, because it's has studies to back it up. It's crazy cheap too.

 

We would get along great/  This is me before my chronic illnesses really made me slow down to some degree. But yes, I am loud, enthused, etc.  I was supposed to see my spinal surgeon\s PA this morning before my surgery in several weeks.  He had asked me to come in and he would answer my questions. Well lo and behold, the surgeon came in.  I really like him--he is meX3 or 4.   He now works only 70 hours a week- he used to work 120.  He has so many degrees too.  I don't have that many degrees but besides my actual education, I have attained and keep attaining so much learning that people think I have degrees I do not have.

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I'm not the most anything. I'm very quiet. Tired all the time. 

You sound fun 🙂 

Then you may have ADHD without the hyperness. That is also common.  In fact, in women, usually more common.  Both my oldest and I have ADHD with the hyper.  Oh and one affect that people often don't know about ADHD, is hyperfocusing.  That is how I got through higher education/ 

[PeterPan]

16 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Then you may have ADHD without the hyperness.

Or she has depression, because difficulty with reading, attention, etc. is a symptom. 

She really needs to talk it through with her doctor, rather than assuming. Or bite the bullet and see a psychologist. There are psychs who do *only* ADHD and a full for that, with a written report, is typically under $1k. Since she doesn't need a report (like for college or work accommodations), she could just do 1-2 hours with the psych and probably sort it out. Real cost at that point, sub $300, possibly covered by insurance depending on what they diagnose.

Edited October 28, 2021 by PeterPan

[Ann.without.an.e]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

What happens when you put it on audiobook at 2x speed?

Dh cannot read a book and finish it.  He can't even sit through a normal podcast. When he cranks the speed, though, he discovered that he really likes audiobooks.

I've never tried this but since I have a difficult time processing when things are read to me, I imagine that any sort of audiobook wouldn't be ideal?

I'm extremely analytical on one hand, can find patterns in languages I don't even speak or know, I can put together ideas and thoughts easily but I struggle with auditory information (my kids know not to read out loud to me, I cannot process it - just hand it to me, let me read it myself) and I also have aphantasia (can't really see pictures in my mind/lack a mind's eye). It is funny, there is a word and everything for it but years and years ago I mentioned this on here and y'all thought I was cra-zy, told me that wasn't possible, that it couldn't be 🤣. There is even a name for it now, it is a thing 🙃

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Then you may have ADHD without the hyperness. That is also common.  In fact, in women, usually more common.  Both my oldest and I have ADHD with the hyper.  Oh and one affect that people often don't know about ADHD, is hyperfocusing.  That is how I got through higher education/ 

Oh yes, never been loud or hyper. In the past I would've said ADD without the H but that's not a thing anymore. Yes, I hyper focus. Not as much as I used to. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Or she has depression, because difficulty with reading, attention, etc. is a symptom. 

She really needs to talk it through with her doctor, rather than assuming. Or bite the bullet and see a psychologist. There are psychs who do *only* ADHD and a full for that, with a written report, is typically under $1k. Since she doesn't need a report (like for college or work accommodations), she could just do 1-2 hours with the psych and probably sort it out. Real cost at that point, sub $300, possibly covered by insurance depending on what they diagnose.

Yes, it could be any of those things but I'm not seeing a specialist. It isn't worth it 🤣

[Ausmumof3]

are you on Vit B?  I’m probably something (definitely no H though) and I find when I stop with the vitamin B brain fog kicks in more and I have much less mental focus on the necessities.

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I also have aphantasia (can't really see pictures in my mind/lack a mind's eye).

I asked earlier if you've been checked by a developmental optometrist. The lack of visualization is part of developmental vision, and it can possibly be corrected. The same issues that led to the visual processing problems could also be causing your reading issues. You'd go through COVD to find a developmental optometrist and you'd simply have them do your next regular annual exam, no extra cost. And when they do that, ask them to *screen* you for developmental vision issues (convergence, etc.).

Fwiw, I don't visualize normally either. I sort of *feel* what I'm visualizing, so I have spatial strengths without actually seeing it and get a different input than visual when I attempt to visualize. I did have some some slight developmental vision issues (peripheral vision, weak convergence, etc.). I suspect my weird visualization is similar or connected to synesthesia.

 

[Carrie12345]

My keys to life without meds: routines and lists.

Those were also my keys WITH meds, lol, but I hated the side effects and quit hunting for the right one/dose. Also, I have to limit myself to 1 coffee now because more triggers my anxiety. That’s been a big blow.

Are my tools 100% effective? No. But, in the past 10 years, I’ve dropped way fewer important balls than I had in the previous 34 years and, generally speaking, have felt much better about myself and my capabilities.

I do also up the speed for audiobooks, read with background noise, busy my hands while watching tv, clean while supervising school work, multitask during phone calls, talk to myself or blast music while driving... My brain needs extra stimulation for me to direct it. That drove everyone crazy when I was a kid. I was constantly told to stop and just focus. I didn’t really have the vocabulary to explain that’s exactly what I was doing.

Also, I have to have the “right” background noise. Like, if it’s music, it needs to be something already ingrained in my brain, but not too nostalgic. Otherwise, that’s where my mind will go. Kids being loud is fine, but if their volume is going up and down? I’m toast.

I group just about everything. If i have an errand to run, I’d better do all the errands I can, and clear them from my brain/list. That becomes the priority for the day. Bill paying day, catch up on ALL financial matters. Calls to make, do them all in one morning. (Often combined with emails.) Floors to clean, all floors get done. Anything that falls into “miscellaneous “ runs the risk of being lost forever.

[NewnameC]

11 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I've never tried this but since I have a difficult time processing when things are read to me, I imagine that any sort of audiobook wouldn't be ideal?

Edited October 28, 2021 by NewnameC
Wanted to add what I tried to say

[NewnameC]

When I listen to audiobooks, I listen faster or otherwise my mind can wander onto what will happen next or onto random things.

 

[73349]

My #1 tool is a free app called Habitica. What I need to do next is always right there.

Some people love the youtube channel How to ADHD for further advice.

I always watch videos or listen to podcasts at 1.25x to 1.5x speed, too. Can't stand audiobooks, though. I have a limited tolerance for side effects from caffeine beyond 2 cups of coffee/tea.

 

Basically you want your environment to prompt your focus to return to the right tasks. And front-load everything you can. It works better for me to meal plan for a whole month and set a reminder to do the next month than to figure out what we can make for dinner every day, for example.

Edited February 15, 2022 by 73349

[TCB]

Does anyone have tips if the problem isn't so much remembering to do things, but feeling like your mind is hyperactive, and therefore finding it hard to focus on studying? This isn't me but my dd, so I may not be describing it accurately. She is very reliable about remembering things etc, but feels uncomfortable often because of her mind. She makes really great grades, and does life very well really, so I don't know what to advise her. She doesn't drink coffee or much other caffeine, so hasn't really tried that. I'm sure it sounds like she has no real problems lol but she does feel really uncomfortable in her head. My dh on the other hand does have a ton of issues with doing life because of his ADHD, tried one medicine, that didn't seem to make any difference, and he doesn't feel like he has found much to help at all.

[Carrie12345]

2 minutes ago, TCB said:

Does anyone have tips if the problem isn't so much remembering to do things, but feeling like your mind is hyperactive, and therefore finding it hard to focus on studying? This isn't me but my dd, so I may not be describing it accurately. She is very reliable about remembering things etc, but feels uncomfortable often because of her mind. She makes really great grades, and does life very well really, so I don't know what to advise her. She doesn't drink coffee or much other caffeine, so hasn't really tried that. I'm sure it sounds like she has no real problems lol but she does feel really uncomfortable in her head. My dh on the other hand does have a ton of issues with doing life because of his ADHD, tried one medicine, that didn't seem to make any difference, and he doesn't feel like he has found much to help at all.

If her grades are good, I wouldn’t worry too-too much. Personally, I take handwritten notes while reading. No first scan or post scan for me.  Just fairly detailed notes every few sentences or paragraphs, in whatever format my brain is feeling for the moment and content. And then I RE-read my notes, not the text in someone else’s superfluous words. 

[Terabith]

Yeah, my husband has found that one of the key things is when someone asks him to do something, especially work related, that he needs to do it RIGHT THEN, so he doesn't forget.  To be honest, I provide most of the household executive functioning, but I also put reminders for everything on the calendar so that if I get sick or if something pops up, he has some hope of remembering to give the cat flea medicine or to call and renew the car tags.  

 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

Does anyone have tips if the problem isn't so much remembering to do things, but feeling like your mind is hyperactive, and therefore finding it hard to focus on studying? This isn't me but my dd, so I may not be describing it accurately. She is very reliable about remembering things etc, but feels uncomfortable often because of her mind. She makes really great grades, and does life very well really, so I don't know what to advise her. She doesn't drink coffee or much other caffeine, so hasn't really tried that. I'm sure it sounds like she has no real problems lol but she does feel really uncomfortable in her head. My dh on the other hand does have a ton of issues with doing life because of his ADHD, tried one medicine, that didn't seem to make any difference, and he doesn't feel like he has found much to help at all.

My 2 adhd kids and I had this discussion last night.  Ds says that he needs to listen to repetitive background music with noise canceling headphones on. It soothes his mind and it blocks out distracting noises like the washing machine hitting a spin cycle or the HVAC kicking on. Dd says that she has to fidget with her hands (she has one of those marble fidgets are her preferred fidget) so that her body is in a bit of motion in order to focus.  

One of my other kids prefers to study laying on his stomach. He needs to feel stable to relax enough to study. (And, yes, we've done OT for that sensory component, but there's more going on there we can't fix.) He also studies by 15 minute timers and needs to get up and move to reset his brain or he wanders mentally.

[goldberry]

Husband is 60 and has developed careful cognitive strategies.  Lists, but also doing things immediately, even if it is inconvenient, because when he remembers it he needs to ACT on it.  Sometimes this makes me crazy, but I understand why he's doing it.  He has never been medicated, but struggled so hard as a kid in school, and developed very poor self esteem.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

uncomfortable in her head.

Mindfulness. Consider a trial of meds to see how they feel. They have a very short half life and are not something she *has* to take every day, unlike say an SSRI. So she could try the meds but only use a short acting one to give her 4 hours for school work or take it XR but only on school days. She'd have options like that. How is driving going for her? The data on driving with ADHD can be pretty bad without meds. 

Caffeine does not stimulate as many parts of the brain as stimulant meds, so it's really worth a trial to see what she prefers.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

tried one medicine, that didn't seem to make any difference, and he doesn't feel like he has found much to help at all.

Fwiw, we've had people here say that generic vs. branded made a difference with some of the meds. He may need to try more. We've also had people here who's scores got *worse* on meds. I think maybe that person was using non-stim, which are very different. And meds are not a substitute for cognitive strategies. There are psychs (look in big cities) who specialize in ADHD and adult ADHD. They'll do cognitive behavioral therapy and help with strategies. 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

12 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I asked earlier if you've been checked by a developmental optometrist. The lack of visualization is part of developmental vision, and it can possibly be corrected. The same issues that led to the visual processing problems could also be causing your reading issues. You'd go through COVD to find a developmental optometrist and you'd simply have them do your next regular annual exam, no extra cost. And when they do that, ask them to *screen* you for developmental vision issues (convergence, etc.).

Fwiw, I don't visualize normally either. I sort of *feel* what I'm visualizing, so I have spatial strengths without actually seeing it and get a different input than visual when I attempt to visualize. I did have some some slight developmental vision issues (peripheral vision, weak convergence, etc.). I suspect my weird visualization is similar or connected to synesthesia.

 

I don't really know what you mean?  I have always had great vision, if that's what you mean. It isn't a vision issue

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

12 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

are you on Vit B?  I’m probably something (definitely no H though) and I find when I stop with the vitamin B brain fog kicks in more and I have much less mental focus on the necessities.

no, I should try it

[73349]

2 hours ago, TCB said:

Does anyone have tips if the problem isn't so much remembering to do things, but feeling like your mind is hyperactive, and therefore finding it hard to focus on studying?

I use Vivaldi's The Four Seasons on repeat via headphones. Music has to be non-verbal for me to not be pulled away from reading/studying.

She may also need to do something like get a to do list written out on paper before starting so her mind doesn't keep coming back to remembering it, and having like sticky notes or a bullet journal at hand to write down anything that she will want to come back to later. She might also consider whether this is coming from anxiety (especially if the interrupting thoughts are about anxiety-provoking things rather than merely interesting things, like whether she really has enough time left to study all these chapters versus oh hey I want to make sure to buy apples this week).

[prairiewindmomma]

32 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I don't really know what you mean?  I have always had great vision, if that's what you mean. It isn't a vision issue

 

Let me try to tackle this one in layman's terms.

Acuity is the accuracy with which your eyes can see things.  We talk about acuity in terms of things like 20/20 vision or 20/450 or whatever.

Eye teaming, binocular vision, convergence issues, etc. are all terms which describe different aspects of how eyes work together to form an image. As an example, my son sees 20/20 in one eye and 20/30 in his other eye, but for a long long time only his left eye was processing images and sending it to the brain. His right eye vision was being blocked by his brain. He wasn't aware that he didn't have binocular vision because it felt normal to him.  He just looked like a really clumsy kid, and he got the occasional headaches and sometimes his eyes would tear and get tired when he tried to read.

Ok, then we have the neuro-opthalmic aspect of things. Your eyes are controlled by a variety of things, and you have cranial nerves involved in that process--notably 2, 3, 4, and 6. 2 sits at the back of the eye and transfers images from the eye to the brain for processing.  Your brain processes images in a few different areas.  You can have glitches along those pathways as well.  For example, with my daughter's brain tumor, her eyes were perfectly healthy, but the cancer destroyed her cranial nerves ability to transmit images and she was left blind. 

Peter Pan brought this up because aphantasia is connected to functional brain differences that also line up with areas that are traditionally under activated with adhd.  (For those curious about aphantasia, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-the-minds-eye-is-blind1/ ) 

[Zinnia2]

I drink coffee in the morning (2 cups, always) and another cup at 3pm.  I really feel it if I skip.  

I rely heavily on routines.  Like my middle name could be FlyLady, but I have routines for every.thing.

[BlsdMama]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:43 PM, marbel said:

Most people I know rely on coffee or other forms of caffeine. It's not a matter of being against prescription meds per se (I know absolutely no one who considers it a sin, even among conservative Christians) but rather cost and accessibility.  Caffeine has it's own side effects too, of course. I know someone who cannot get to sleep without a cup of coffee right before bed. They say it helps their racing brain to settle down.

I gave up coffee for three months. 25 years of parenting 11 kids and it was the I found myself crazy overwhelmed by noise and light.

In desperation, I decided to space my water soluble vitamins and coffee differently, but go back to coffee. I need to functionally parent.

[BlsdMama]

11 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I do also up the speed for audiobooks, read with background noise, busy my hands while watching tv, clean while supervising school work, multitask during phone calls, talk to myself or blast music while driving... My brain needs extra stimulation for me to direct it. That drove everyone crazy when I was a kid. I was constantly told to stop and just focus. I didn’t really have the vocabulary to explain that’s exactly what I was doing.

I group just about everything. If i have an errand to run, I’d better do all the errands I can, and clear them from my brain/list. That becomes the priority for the day. Bill paying day, catch up on ALL financial matters. Calls to make, do them all in one morning. (Often combined with emails.) Floors to clean, all floors get done. Anything that falls into “miscellaneous “ runs the risk of being lost forever.

I group! I had no idea it was a solution! My key to life is my DH.

[TCB]

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

If her grades are good, I wouldn’t worry too-too much. Personally, I take handwritten notes while reading. No first scan or post scan for me.  Just fairly detailed notes every few sentences or paragraphs, in whatever format my brain is feeling for the moment and content. And then I RE-read my notes, not the text in someone else’s superfluous words. 

She does do very well but I sometimes wonder at the effort she needs to put in because of these issues. She has been mentioning it a lot more recently so I don’t know if it is getting worse, don’t know if that’s possible, or if maybe it is being exacerbated by stress. I’ll pass on that tip to her. Thanks!

[TCB]

3 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My 2 adhd kids and I had this discussion last night.  Ds says that he needs to listen to repetitive background music with noise canceling headphones on. It soothes his mind and it blocks out distracting noises like the washing machine hitting a spin cycle or the HVAC kicking on. Dd says that she has to fidget with her hands (she has one of those marble fidgets are her preferred fidget) so that her body is in a bit of motion in order to focus.  

One of my other kids prefers to study laying on his stomach. He needs to feel stable to relax enough to study. (And, yes, we've done OT for that sensory component, but there's more going on there we can't fix.) He also studies by 15 minute timers and needs to get up and move to reset his brain or he wanders mentally.

I asked her about playing music but she said usually that increased her distraction, especially if any words, but she’s going to try white noise instead.