Thank you all

[Jaybee]

Thanks to you all--you've given me lots to think about.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jaybee

[kbutton]

I have some reservations about taking one because I guess it can raise blood sugar, BUT, I am prediabetic and not yet medicated for it. The equation would change if I cross over into frank diabetes. Then it's really beneficial, and the blood sugar meds should be able to help keep any effects in check. I know DH's doctor (DH is not diabetic) likes to keep numbers quite low, and if people have a sudden uptick in their numbers without a negative change in diet/exercise, he just assumes it's a predisposition and recommends meds. 

It's also cheap, usually. I think some pharmacies have it for no money or very little money even without insurance (Meijer).

One side of my family would love to be able to get their cholesterol to a not eye-popping number even with meds (and starting very young), and the other side is like, "What is cholesterol?" I have had beautiful cholesterol until recently, and I have no idea what's up--I expected to follow one side or another, not split the difference. I am fat, but my risk factors are actually still really low, so my doctor is fine with me waiting and seeing if it will improve. I have made modest changes, but I am not willing to make huge ones since I already eat well and have a lot of food intolerances. 

So, basically, if I were in your shoes, I would do it. The rise in blood sugar is the only thing (other than maybe pride and a sense of bewilderment that mine changed so drastically for no reason) that keeps from taking it now. And my doctor doesn't think that potentially tipping me from pre-diabetic to diabetic is a good move in my current situation (but reserves the right to change his recommendation if the calculation changes, or I become fully diabetic).

[Ali in OR]

My cholesterol runs high. My doctor asked me a bunch of questions that turned out to be a screening that still put my risk of a cardiac event in the next 10 years pretty low--maybe 1-2%? He said they don't do statins until your risk is over 10%. But I don't have weight issues, diabetes, or high blood pressure. Your cholesterol looks great to me, so maybe your other factors make your screening risk higher? What do statins do for you if cholesterol is already under 200?

[ktgrok]

There is a book about how they are NOT shown to be helpful to women, and have some serious side effects. I haven't read it, but it was written by a cardiologist (link below). After listening to an interview with a cardiologist from I want to say John's Hopkins on this topic I'd be VERY hesitant as well. Things like brain fog, memory issues, muscle weakness, etc can be very debilitating for very little benefit especially in women. 

https://amzn.to/2XPMdnD

[Bambam]

I've been on a statin for high cholesterol for years. It runs in the family and diet changes did nothing for me. The statin helps correct it, and I've had no side effects.  My cholesterol was higher than yours in the beginning. 

Just interesting side note, one sibling lost a lot of weight (basically not eating) and started exercising a great deal, and their cholesterol went down with those efforts. Their doctor asked them in the beginning of COVID to keep taking it as at that time there was some belief it might help? I never investigated that to see if it were true. 

[Jaybee]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:59 PM, Ali in OR said:

My cholesterol runs high. My doctor asked me a bunch of questions that turned out to be a screening that still put my risk of a cardiac event in the next 10 years pretty low--maybe 1-2%? He said they don't do statins until your risk is over 10%. But I don't have weight issues, diabetes, or high blood pressure. Your cholesterol looks great to me, so maybe your other factors make your screening risk higher? What do statins do for you if cholesterol is already under 200?

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jaybee

[kbutton]

21 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

ETA: One of my concerns is the possibility that it just increases the possibility of making it even harder to lose weight

Do you know if that is independent of blood sugar? That’s not great news. 

[Jaybee]

4 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Do you know if that is independent of blood sugar? That’s not great news. 

I'm not sure what you mean? ETA: I don't know if it increases the difficulty, but if it increases blood sugar, I would think it does make it more difficult to lose weight.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Jaybee

[Jaybee]

Okay, interestingly, a quick search looks like the ADA recommends statins for anybody with diabetes. 

[MooCow]

I take it ...my parents had all kinds of problems, diabetes, massive heart attack, High cholesterol, glaucoma..the list goes on. 

Untreated high blood pressure is the reason my mom's kidneys went bad...if she had just taken a cholesterol rx, she would've been "ok" when first prescribed the Dr tells me. 

It has not interfered with weight loss for me, I watch my diet and walk/jog at least every other day. It took awhile to find one that didn't give me crappy side effects, i.e. the horrible cough 

Please don't quote

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you take a statin I've been told to also take CoQ10 (though a quick google shows some disagreement on that but I had always been told to take both). 

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Jaybee said:

I'm not sure what you mean? ETA: I don't know if it increases the difficulty, but if it increases blood sugar, I would think it does make it more difficult to lose weight.

Yes, my experience has been that higher blood sugar leads to always being hungry. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, MooCow said:

I take it ...my parents had all kinds of problems, diabetes, massive heart attack, High cholesterol, glaucoma..the list goes on. 

Untreated high blood pressure is the reason my mom's kidneys went bad...if she had just taken a cholesterol rx, she would've been "ok" when first prescribed the Dr tells me. 

It has not interfered with weight loss for me, I watch my diet and walk/jog at least every other day. It took awhile to find one that didn't give me crappy side effects, i.e. the horrible cough 

Please don't quote

 

Statins are for cholesterol, not blood pressure, so not sure what this means?

[ktgrok]

https://cwhn.ca/en/node/39417#:~:text=Analysis by researchers at the,in women without heart disease.

Analysis by researchers at the Therapeutics Initiative at the University of British Columbia, which looked at a total of 10,990 women, also found no evidence that statin therapy reduced coronary events in women without heart disease.

A different review, looking at three trials where women with pre-existing heart disease are represented found that for women, cardiac events were reduced by only 0.8% per year for a five-year period and there was no decline in overall death rates.

[bibiche]

14 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

https://cwhn.ca/en/node/39417#:~:text=Analysis by researchers at the,in women without heart disease.

Analysis by researchers at the Therapeutics Initiative at the University of British Columbia, which looked at a total of 10,990 women, also found no evidence that statin therapy reduced coronary events in women without heart disease.

A different review, looking at three trials where women with pre-existing heart disease are represented found that for women, cardiac events were reduced by only 0.8% per year for a five-year period and there was no decline in overall death rates.

The link is from 2008.

[Laura Corin]

FWIW I was able to reduce my cholesterol through diet and lifestyle.  I'm not anti drug, but I recognised that the changes were also good for gut health,  mental wellbeing and weight stabilisation.  Let me know if you want details. 

[kbutton]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2269-x

Abstract only and recommends a clinical trial:

Quote

Microbiome community typing analyses have recently identified the Bacteroides2 (Bact2) enterotype, an intestinal microbiota configuration that is associated with systemic inflammation and has a high prevalence in loose stools in humans1,2. Bact2 is characterized by a high proportion of Bacteroides, a low proportion of Faecalibacterium and low microbial cell densities1,2, and its prevalence varies from 13% in a general population cohort to as high as 78% in patients with inflammatory bowel disease2. Reported changes in stool consistency3 and inflammation status4 during the progression towards obesity and metabolic comorbidities led us to propose that these developments might similarly correlate with an increased prevalence of the potentially dysbiotic Bact2 enterotype. Here, by exploring obesity-associated microbiota alterations in the quantitative faecal metagenomes of the cross-sectional MetaCardis Body Mass Index Spectrum cohort (n = 888), we identify statin therapy as a key covariate of microbiome diversification. By focusing on a subcohort of participants that are not medicated with statins, we find that the prevalence of Bact2 correlates with body mass index, increasing from 3.90% in lean or overweight participants to 17.73% in obese participants. Systemic inflammation levels in Bact2-enterotyped individuals are higher than predicted on the basis of their obesity status, indicative of Bact2 as a dysbiotic microbiome constellation. We also observe that obesity-associated microbiota dysbiosis is negatively associated with statin treatment, resulting in a lower Bact2 prevalence of 5.88% in statin-medicated obese participants. This finding is validated in both the accompanying MetaCardis cardiovascular disease dataset (n = 282) and the independent Flemish Gut Flora Project population cohort (n = 2,345). The potential benefits of statins in this context will require further evaluation in a prospective clinical trial to ascertain whether the effect is reproducible in a randomized population and before considering their application as microbiota-modulating therapeutics.

This thread has me googling, and I see things I've heard or read in the past confirmed and countered. 

[Jaybee]

On 10/27/2021 at 12:55 PM, Laura Corin said:

FWIW I was able to reduce my cholesterol through diet and lifestyle.  I'm not anti drug, but I recognised that the changes were also good for gut health,  mental wellbeing and weight stabilisation.  Let me know if you want details. 

Sure, send them on! 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jaybee

[kbutton]

47 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

FWIW I was able to reduce my cholesterol through diet and lifestyle. 

How long did it take to start seeing a difference? 

I've had such an odd experience to compare my cholesterol changes to "good behavior" that I am curious what is a typical timeline for improvement when you make changes.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I am surprised that your doctor is recommending this when your numbers are so good.

[ktgrok]

56 minutes ago, bibiche said:

The link is from 2008.

True. I need to google more. I found this from 2019 https://lisalarkinmd.com/women-and-statins-more-research-needed/, 

A recent review of medical literature found that statins do not significantly reduce coronary heart disease in women with no history of cardiovascular disease. Generally, statins might not be as effective in preventing heart disease in women as in men because women may develop heart disease differently, with cholesterol less of a factor.

[bibiche]

4 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I am surprised that your doctor is recommending this when your numbers are so good.

https://www.medscape.com/answers/117853-6598/what-are-the-ada-guidelines-on-the-use-of-statins-in-patients-with-type-2-diabetes-mellitus-dm

[ktgrok]

I should add my caution regarding statins in a case like yours is they DO have side effects, and they are a cholesterol lowering drug, but you don't have high cholesterol. You have a good number, and good ratio. What you do have is diabetes. Seems that focusing more on correcting that issue, rather than cholesterol, makes a ton more sense. 

Do you see an endocrinologist? Would getting more aggressive on your diabetes as a first step make more sense to you, and would your doctor be on board with that?

Also, how is your blood pressure?

I'd look at weight and blood sugar/insulin control well before a statin, given you don't even have a cholesterol problem! Up the exercise and/or N.E.A.T. (non exercise activity, basically), start checking your blood sugar after meals and keep a log so you can find out what foods mess with your blood sugar and which ones do not. It can be weirdly individual! See an obesity specialist or endocrinologist, etc. Things like diet and exercise will not only help diabetes and heart health but make you FEEL better. A statin can't do that. NOW, if you had sky high cholesterol, intractable diabetes, etc, my thoughts would be different. But you sound like a good candidate for lifestyle change. And having seen the brain fog, muscle weakness, and fatigue that statins can cause, they would not be my first option, when you haven't exhausted other options. 

[MooCow]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Statins are for cholesterol, not blood pressure, so not sure what this means?

I added more information than was necessary. I'm missing my mom lately is all, and I'm a little p.o. that she didn't take care of herself. 😔 Eta: sorry my info was wrong. It was right in my head.

Edited October 27, 2021 by MooCow

[Jaybee]

On 10/27/2021 at 1:59 PM, ktgrok said:

I should add my caution regarding statins in a case like yours is they DO have side effects, and they are a cholesterol lowering drug, but you don't have high cholesterol. You have a good number, and good ratio. What you do have is diabetes. Seems that focusing more on correcting that issue, rather than cholesterol, makes a ton more sense. 

Do you see an endocrinologist? Would getting more aggressive on your diabetes as a first step make more sense to you, and would your doctor be on board with that?

Also, how is your blood pressure?

I'd look at weight and blood sugar/insulin control well before a statin, given you don't even have a cholesterol problem! Up the exercise and/or N.E.A.T. (non exercise activity, basically), start checking your blood sugar after meals and keep a log so you can find out what foods mess with your blood sugar and which ones do not. It can be weirdly individual! See an obesity specialist or endocrinologist, etc. Things like diet and exercise will not only help diabetes and heart health but make you FEEL better. A statin can't do that. NOW, if you had sky high cholesterol, intractable diabetes, etc, my thoughts would be different. But you sound like a good candidate for lifestyle change. And having seen the brain fog, muscle weakness, and fatigue that statins can cause, they would not be my first option, when you haven't exhausted other options. 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jaybee

[Mona]

Dr. Berg’s videos are informative, helpful, and easy to watch since they are all only a few minutes long. Here are two on statins. HTH

What you need to know:  https://youtu.be/ynpqxnxtLi8

What you need to know if you are already on a statin?  https://youtu.be/Db9rkEzKeJE

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, bibiche said:

https://www.medscape.com/answers/117853-6598/what-are-the-ada-guidelines-on-the-use-of-statins-in-patients-with-type-2-diabetes-mellitus-dm

But with an A1C of 5.7, she doesn’t have any diabetic symptoms at this point.

[bibiche]

4 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

But with an A1C of 5.7, she doesn’t have any diabetic symptoms at this point.

She said she is diabetic. She takes metformin. The ADA recommends statins to nearly all diabetics. 

[Jaybee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_qQ7-Rkbak

Here's an opposite opinion to the one above. (Berg)

Edited October 27, 2021 by Jaybee

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, MooCow said:

I added more information than was necessary. I'm missing my mom lately is all, and I'm a little p.o. that she didn't take care of herself. 😔 Eta: sorry my info was wrong. It was right in my head.

I'm sorry. hugs. 

1 hour ago, Jaybee said:

I have seen an endocrinologist in the past, but don't have one where we currently live. BP the last two times has been 124/66 and 124/82. I have also done tracking of diet and blood sugar but not lately. I generally know what I need to do, but I also have to eat so little, it's hard to make it happen.

ETA: I have lost about 8 lbs. this year, but as you see, that's very slow.

I'd focus on gaining muscle mass and exercise as much as weight loss. I find that exercise daily helps my insulin/blood sugar more than anything else. 

[Mona]

20 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_qQ7-Rkbak

Here's an opposite opinion to the one above. (Berg)

I watched it. I looked him up. He said some interesting things.

He says statins work if you diet and exercise, but if you don’t, they won’t. You can overeat your statin.

He says people who KNOW they are on statins have more muscle pain than people who don’t know they are on it. However, He has personal experience of being on a statin and waking up so stiff that he thought he had rheumatoid arthritis. He stopped taking it and felt better. He says that the only people who get diabetes on a statin were going to get diabetes anyway. His comments wouldn’t convince ME that taking a statin is beneficial. I still think the risk outweighs the benefits. Disclaimer: I don’t think that high cholesterol means that you are going to have a heart attack either like Dr. Berg explained. It depends on other clinical factors. 

Also, my husband is a surgeon. Prior to medical school, he was a pharmacist. He always speaks negatively about statins. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Like most meds there are ranges in dosage for statins. I am on the lowest possible dosage for statins and take a higher dosage than normal for Coq10 (400 mg). I personally would discuss it with a doctor who knows your entire medical history and picture. Pros and cons. 

[Pawz4me]

I wouldn't hesitate to take a statin if my cholesterol numbers indicated the need for one. I would insist on starting on the lowest possible dose.

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, Jaybee said:

Sure, send them on! I have done a lot over the years to tweak my diet, but still need to make more changes. I'm not anti drug either. I've had my vax plus booster, plus lots of vaccines that most people don't get (due to increased risks of conditions per living overseas). I'm thankful for my thyroid med and metformin has seemed to be helpful for me. So I am wondering if I am reacting to this in the same kind of way that many people are reacting to the covid vaccines (those without real medical reasons to not get them), or if there is some gut level reason that really does make sense. I am exercising regularly (work out on my rower 4-5x/wk for 5K plus stretches).

I shifted even more whole grain whole food. I rarely eat any packaged goods, including baked goods,  or prepared meals. We save up to eat out rarely - very good food. These recipes are roughly how I eat

https://thedoctorskitchen.com/recipes

In addition I increased my exercise.  Moved to oat milk - I drink a lot of tea, so a lot of oat milk.

I didn't get tested again for around six months to give the change time to settle in. 

[Jaybee]

3 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I shifted even more whole grain whole food. I rarely eat any packaged goods, including baked goods,  or prepared meals. We save up to eat out rarely - very good food. These recipes are roughly how I eat

https://thedoctorskitchen.com/recipes

In addition I increased my exercise.  Moved to oat milk - I drink a lot of tea, so a lot of oat milk.

I didn't get tested again for around six months to give the change time to settle in. 

I don't have time right now to look closely, but the recipe pictures are making me drool! They look delicious. I look forward to browsing through and finding some new things. I'm a bit bored with our old faves and need to search out some new recipes, so thanks so much! I don't drink much milk. I prefer my tea and coffee black. After the diet drink thread a couple of weeks ago, I have dropped artificial sweeteners, including stevia. I don't like sweet drinks in general (except for diet colas, which I love, but I'm doing fine without them), other than the occasional lightly sweetened iced tea. Mostly I drink water, water with lemon, plain black tea, plain green tea, or black coffee.

[TravelingChris]

I don't have any cholesterol issue.  I have much more good cholesterol than normal and lower bad than normal too.  But there is almost chance I would take statins.  Because of the whole muscle problem to start out with and also, I do not have any heart issue.  I have labile blood pressure but that is due to my dysautonomia and while I do take bp meds, I will not take statins.

 

[melmichigan]

The newer ADA goals include statins based on risk factors, not on levels. https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2017/05/22/11/00/new-2017-american-diabetes-statement-on-standards-of-medical-care-in-diabetes  My doctor and I discussed it back when it first came out and before he retired.  We opted to wait because my numbers are super low.  At the same time I did a trial of Lisinipril, per the guidelines.  I couldn't tolerate it but was eventually put on Losartan by cardiology specifically for the kidney protection.  We haven't revisited statins with my new PCP or cardiology.

My DH has been on statins for a long time with a history of familial hyperlipidemia. His triglycerides were high from the time he hit his 30's.

Edited October 27, 2021 by melmichigan

[popmom]

Thanks for starting this thread. I just got results back on my blood work. For the first time in my life I have high cholesterol, low vitamin D, and my a1c was 5.7 (prediabetes). 
 

I am going nuts reading all the contradictory opinions out there about how to handle all of this. 
 

My OB/GYN did the blood work, and he told me to see my PCP. Ummm. I don’t have a PCP. Oops. Guess I’ll be finding one now!

[Laura Corin]

Before I  decided to try a lifestyle change, I thought a lot about definitions of risk. As I  understand it - corrections welcome - the situation is as follows - high cholesterol is a marker of a risk but not a certainty of illness. Out of all the women - W - who have high cholesterol,  X percent will get heart disease if untreated. If treated with statins, Y percent of X percent of W will avoid the heart disease they would otherwise have got.

So on a population level, Statins made sense.  On an individual level, it's generalised preventative care, rather than treatment. And it's worth thinking about what the risk reduction actually means to the individual. I  decided to try other forms of preventative care first.

I may well have taken Statins in the end if my data hadn't improved.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Laura Corin

[EKS]

My father has taken several statins.  All of them caused severe memory issues (which the doctor denied was linked to the medication and which resolved when he went off them each time) and at least one caused some sort of muscle problem.  He refuses to take them now. 

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, popmom said:

Thanks for starting this thread. I just got results back on my blood work. For the first time in my life I have high cholesterol, low vitamin D, and my a1c was 5.7 (prediabetes). 
 

I am going nuts reading all the contradictory opinions out there about how to handle all of this. 
 

My OB/GYN did the blood work, and he told me to see my PCP. Ummm. I don’t have a PCP. Oops. Guess I’ll be finding one now!

Low D is correlated with high cholesterol if I remember correctly. I'd recheck when you get the D back up. 

[TravelingChris]

16 hours ago, melmichigan said:

The newer ADA goals include statins based on risk factors, not on levels. https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2017/05/22/11/00/new-2017-american-diabetes-statement-on-standards-of-medical-care-in-diabetes  My doctor and I discussed it back when it first came out and before he retired.  We opted to wait because my numbers are super low.  At the same time I did a trial of Lisinipril, per the guidelines.  I couldn't tolerate it but was eventually put on Losartan by cardiology specifically for the kidney protection.  We haven't revisited statins with my new PCP or cardiology.

My DH has been on statins for a long time with a history of familial hyperlipidemia. His triglycerides were high from the time he hit his 30's.

WHat issue did you have with lisinipril?  I am on that but am also on so many other daily drugs and have strange problems that may be related to drugs I take or to my underlying most all autoimmune conditions.

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

My father has taken several statins.  All of them caused severe memory issues (which the doctor denied was linked to the medication and which resolved when he went off them each time) and at least one caused some sort of muscle problem.  He refuses to take them now. 

These are the issues of why I will never take them.  Plus, my triglycerides are always on the quite low side and my good cholesterol is always high and my bad is always normal or lower.

[Myra]

20 hours ago, bibiche said:

She said she is diabetic. She takes metformin. The ADA recommends statins to nearly all diabetics. 

Why does the ADA recommend statins for diabetics?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, Myra said:

Why does the ADA recommend statins for diabetics?

because diabetics have an increased risk of heart disease (twice as likely to have heart disease as non-diabetics). 

[Pawz4me]

55 minutes ago, Myra said:

Why does the ADA recommend statins for diabetics?

 

53 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

because diabetics have an increased risk of heart disease (twice as likely to have heart disease as non-diabetics). 

I have RA. People with RA have, according to some studies, a 50 percent greater risk of developing cardiovascular disease than the general public and are twice as likely to have a heart attack than people w/o RA. That's why I said earlier that if my cholesterol numbers ever indicate the need that I wouldn't hesitate to try a low dose of a statin.  

Edited October 28, 2021 by Pawz4me

[melmichigan]

3 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

WHat issue did you have with lisinipril?  I am on that but am also on so many other daily drugs and have strange problems that may be related to drugs I take or to my underlying most all autoimmune conditions.

I just couldn't tolerate it.  The lowest dose bottomed out my BP.  I take the lowest dose of Losartan now without issue.  Lisinipril can cause dry cough in a lot of people. 

28 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 

I have RA. People with RA have, according to some studies, a 50 percent greater risk of developing cardiovascular disease than the general public and are twice as likely to have a heart attack than people w/o RA. That's why I said earlier that if my cholesterol numbers ever indicate the need that I wouldn't hesitate to try a low dose of a statin.  

That is where we are with my husband.  His numbers are good on the lowest dose of Crestor and he doesn't have any side effects.  If he is able to get his weight down a little more he may be able to go back to every other day.

[Jean in Newcastle]

On 10/27/2021 at 2:20 PM, Laura Corin said:

I shifted even more whole grain whole food. I rarely eat any packaged goods, including baked goods,  or prepared meals. We save up to eat out rarely - very good food. These recipes are roughly how I eat

https://thedoctorskitchen.com/recipes

In addition I increased my exercise.  Moved to oat milk - I drink a lot of tea, so a lot of oat milk.

I didn't get tested again for around six months to give the change time to settle in. 

Thanks for that link.  I made the butternut curry recipe tonight for dinner.  It's very much in line with how we eat all the time but it's nice to have some different recipes. 

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Thanks for that link.  I made the butternut curry recipe tonight for dinner.  It's very much in line with how we eat all the time but it's nice to have some different recipes. 

What did you think, Jean? I still haven't gotten on there to really look at the recipes, but the pictures looked delicious!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, Jaybee said:

What did you think, Jean? I still haven't gotten on there to really look at the recipes, but the pictures looked delicious!

Mmmm.  Yummy.