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Hooks and aid- how does it work?


mermaidkitchen
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I’m pretty sure my kid with a weighted gpa of 3.9 could get into a reasonable school but what determines merit aid? I’m seeing most colleges will cost $30-$60k but there’s no way I can pay that. I’ve done the net cost calculator cut it seems there is additional merit aid that could come. How do I know or have a reasonable guess of how much merit aid?

Also, would starting a competing program for our town be a compelling enough hook to get into a SLAC?

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By SLAC do you mean a selective liberal arts college? I’m guessing you know that the majority of the top ones offer no merit aid, only financial aid. Grinnell in IA is one exception, there might be others.

Merit aid is often based on a combination of GPA and test scores, some school will even provide details on exact qualifications for certain merit aid. They might also take things like ECs, interviews, hooks, etc. into consideration.

As long as your child has a financial safety that they would happily attend, it doesn’t hurt to apply to some others and just wait and see what the financial/merit aid award is.

Does your child have a list of schools of interest? Some on here might have experience with their merit aid.

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From your posts in your previous thread, because of having taken the GED and then afterwards having taken courses at the community college, there is a good chance your son is NOT eligible for freshman scholarships, which is the majority of merit aid offered by colleges.

Before worrying about how much merit aid your son might get, it is critical to understand what your son's "status" will be -- freshman or transfer student. That will help you understand how much (or how little) merit aid he may be able to receive.

Freshman scholarships are larger awards, usually renewable (good for 4 years, as long as the student maintains the requirements), and there are more freshman scholarships awarded. Transfer scholarships are usually for much smaller amounts, are usually 1-time awards (not renewable), and there are usually far fewer transfer scholarships awarded. So very competitive to get that smaller amount of money, even if the student does have a high GPA.

Contact the universities that your son is interested in applying to and find out what his status is because of the GED and the community college courses taken after getting his GED. If the universities will be considering him a transfer student, then your merit aid is going to be far less -- limited to transfer scholarships and federal financial aid from Pell Grants and student loans.

Second, it is also critical to apply to FAFSA to see how much financial aid your son will be eligible for -- federal financial aid is FREE money in the form of a Pell Grant, and money you have to pay back in the form of a student loan and/or a parent plus loan.


Usually, a financial safety with a budget of $20,000/year might look something like:

1. a local university (in your city), and the student lives at home with the parent and commutes to school (so, no dorm & meal plan fees)

2. start at a much less expensive local community college (in your city), and the student lives at home, works part time to help earn towards future tuition, and takes the required general ed. courses that will transfer for the future 4-year degree

3. an out-of-state work-for-tuition school, such as Berea College (the student lives and works year-round at the college and works 15 hours/week on campus to pay for tuition)

4. an all-online degree program while living at home, so you are only paying for the tuition, no room & board or other expenses

Edited by Lori D.
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In addition, it would help if you could provide details about what job/career your son wants, or what degree program your son is looking for. If it is something general, you will have more options of schools to fit your stated budget. If it a very unique degree program that is offered only at a few schools, then that is going to be a lot harder to fit into your budget.

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2 minutes ago, mermaidkitchen said:

Well that’s sad. Not much of a “college” experience. And he’s worked so hard.

You have not really provided enough details for people to be able to help you. There are likely options, but without information to really understand your situation, it is really hard to provide advice or direction that might lead you to some money sources.

Edited by Lori D.
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4 minutes ago, mermaidkitchen said:

Delaware, landscape architecture or environmental design. A BA

University of Delaware
- landscape architecture
- cost = $31,562/year -- BUT, if living at home, subtract $13,800/year room & board =  $17,762
- potentially take online courses for the first 1-2 years to cut out room & board, if not living close enough to commute
- meanwhile, student works part time throughout college at a company with a tuition reimbursement program to help further reduce costs (most require that you have worked with the company for 9-12 months before this benefit kicks in)
- consider coming in as a transfer student -- here is the process -- after knocking out general ed. courses at the community college this year (esp. since there won't be federal financial aid OR university merit aid handed out until the fall 2022)
- to make sure you take credits that DO transfer, see here

University Valley University
- landscape architecture BS -- not a BA
- environmental design BS -- not a BA
- cost *might potentially drop as low as $26,000/year --> $47,000/year as a commuter student (live at home) less the $21,000/year scholarship for the 3.5+ GPA; he could probably get a Federal Student Loan to cover the remaining $6,000-6,500/year
- overall cost could potentially be lowered if transfer credits are accepted from a community college, which could shave off 1-2 years; also, the potential of working throughout college at a company with a tuition reimbursement program


Degree-specific scholarships
- Scholarships.com website -- list of landscape architecture scholarships
Landscape Architecture Foundation -- annual scholarship awards info
- List of ASLA (American Society of Landscape Architect) Scholarships -- many are to specific schools; many are for students in their last 2 years of study, so your student WOULD be eligible later in his studies to apply for those


Tuition Reciprocity Program
Some states that are near one another cut a tuition break to students coming from a next-door state. So if either the Environmental Design degree or the Landscape Architect degree is not available through a Delaware university, your student may be eligible for the Regional Student Program through the Northeast Board of Higher Education Tuition Reciprocity program, which cuts Delaware residents a $7000/year tuition break when attending a university in Connecticut, Maine, Massachusettes, New Hampshire, or Vermont, IF the student meets these qualifying requirements:

- a full-time student in the Regional Student Program
- must enroll in a major that is only approved by and offered in the RSP
- must be a major that is not available to the student at the public universities and colleges in their own home-state
- degree is NOT in high-demand (and therefore, not offered under the Regional Student Program)
- if the student starts off with an approved RSP major and then changes to a major that is not RSP-approved, then the student is charged the full out-of-state tuition rate from then on

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6 hours ago, mermaidkitchen said:

Delaware, landscape architecture or environmental design. A BA

Have you looked at Warren Wilson?  It is a "work college" so part of tuition for every student is doing a crew - forestry, agriculture, library support, tech, etc.  They offer merit aid, and would be a place that would take his college credits to reduce the number of years he has to pay for but has a close-knit on-campus community so he could have the college experience.

A young friend who majored in creative writing and dance did a forestry crew during her four years there and is now a very well paid arborist.  They let students design interdisciplinary degrees which could work well for your son, and they are very welcoming to homeschoolers and non-traditional students.  Near Asheville, NC.  They have a January entry option, the deadline is November 15.  I helped one of my bonus kids apply there and enjoyed getting to know the school a bit.  https://www.warren-wilson.edu/  They also have D3 athletics and a Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

Edited by Eos
added winter application deadline
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@mermaidkitchen   I suggest that you and your DS, immediately, sign up for accounts on the FAFSA web site (Parent account and student account) and each of you complete your part of the application for FAFSA.

To begin with you can specify a minimum of one school. Later you can add to the list of schools they send the information to.  There is more $ available now, because the new FAFSA form becomes available on October 1 of each year.

I read, approximately 4 or 5 years ago, that approximately 50% (?) of the students who do not submit the FAFSA application, because they assume they are not eligible for Financial Aid, were in fact eligible for Financial Aid.  

If a student receives Financial Aid from the U.S. Government (Pell Grant, etc.) then I believe that will increase the possibility the school may also have Financial Aid available for them.

PLEASE NOTE: (a) There are always FAFSA forms for 2 different school years on their web site. Be sure that you submit the form for the proper school year and (b) This is the URL for the FAFSA web site:   https://studentaid.gov/h/apply-for-aid/fafsa   (c) A Grant is a gift to the student. A Loan must be repaid...

Good luck to your DS!

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21 minutes ago, Lanny said:

@mermaidkitchen   I suggest that you and your DS, immediately, sign up for accounts on the FAFSA web site (Parent account and student account) and each of you complete your part of the application for FAFSA.

To begin with you can specify a minimum of one school. Later you can add to the list of schools they send the information to.  There is more $ available now, because the new FAFSA form becomes available on October 1 of each year.

I read, approximately 4 or 5 years ago, that approximately 50% (?) of the students who do not submit the FAFSA application, because they assume they are not eligible for Financial Aid, were in fact eligible for Financial Aid.  

If a student receives Financial Aid from the U.S. Government (Pell Grant, etc.) then I believe that will increase the possibility the school may also have Financial Aid available for them.

PLEASE NOTE: (a) There are always FAFSA forms for 2 different school years on their web site. Be sure that you submit the form for the proper school year and (b) This is the URL for the FAFSA web site:   https://studentaid.gov/h/apply-for-aid/fafsa   (c) A Grant is a gift to the student. A Loan must be repaid...

Good luck to your DS!

We’ve already completed the fafsa. Our EFC is $3000 but I can’t find schools whose net price calculator is less than $30000

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22 minutes ago, mermaidkitchen said:

We’ve already completed the fafsa. Our EFC is $3000 but I can’t find schools whose net price calculator is less than $30000

I wonder if you are doing something wrong then. Our EFC is much higher and when all was said and done almost all the schools came in around that or lower. Some schools post their merit aid levels matched to grades and SATs. However, Lori is correct, transfer scholarships are different. Sometimes you find the amounts on the financial aid page under a scholarship tab. My dd got some extra scholarships that weren’t listed. Some schools have competitive ones where you I interview and write extra essays. This info is on the financial aid pages usually. 
 

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My teen attends a competitive  LAC, part of the CTCL consortium, and was accepted to several others. My teen’s “Hook” was Herpetology research and teaching classes, including multiple conference talks, culminating in the World Congress of Herpetology.
 

There was an involved essay and interview process and a big part seemed to be that you were a person they could feel would fit as part of their class. Having a hook made it easier to write essays and talk, but honestly, I don’t know that it makes that big of a difference except in that regard.
 

What I noticed was that the financial aid package they offered was almost exactly what my kid would have gotten from a state flagship after automatic merit. So while they provide much more limited merit aid, it definitely seems that they keep in mind what your kid is eligible for elsewhere. We would definitely have gotten more money at a lower tier state U, but for the most part, there were two levels of packages-the “overmatched school” ones and the “Solid match” ones. Public/Private and in/out of state didn’t seem to make a lot of difference. 

While my kid had a lot of college credits, that isn’t a hook so much as expected. Basically everyone comes in with a lot of higher level coursework, whether it’s college classes, IB, AP, etc. Having said that, I got the impression that it was less about having one compelling “hook” as about being the kind of polymath who would thrive at a school where a high level liberal arts core is expected. 

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2 hours ago, mermaidkitchen said:

We’ve already completed the fafsa. Our EFC is $3000 but I can’t find schools whose net price calculator is less than $30000

The EFC is mostly going to make a big difference at schools that meet demonstrated need. Merit aid is rarely if ever going to bring the cost of a $70,000/year school down to $20,000, but a school that meets need will close that gap (according to their own formula. They won't just take your FAFSA EFC; they'll take things like home equity into account). You can find a list of schools that meet demonstrated need online and try some of those NPCs. The trick with those, of course, is that they're generally the hardest schools to get into. There are also quite a few schools that come pretty close to meeting need that are generally somewhat less selective. Those are a bit harder to find without just playing around with NPCs; a few that come to mind from my own kid's college search are St. Olaf, Hendrix, Knox, and Lawrence University. I have no idea how the GED plays into it, though,  or whether private colleges might have more flexibility to call your kid a freshman and not a transfer? 

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kokotg wrote:  " but a school that meets need will close that gap (according to their own formula. They won't just take your FAFSA EFC; they'll take things like home equity into account). You can find a list of schools that meet demonstrated need online and try some of those NPCs. The trick with those, of course, is that they're generally the hardest schools to get into"

I don't know if either of these schools have the Major, but I believe these 2 Public universities can/will/do "meet" full Financial Need.  That also entails Loans...

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and University of Virginia

And yes, schools that can do that will probably require the "CSS Profile" in addition to the FAFSA. Fortunately, you only need to do the "CSS Profile" once!

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2 hours ago, mermaidkitchen said:

... Does anyone have suggestions for colleges that are a bit larger that might meet close to need?

In case there are any confusions about what "need" actually IS, and how "need is met"... Colleges define financial Need a bit differently than families do. And they usually "Meet Need" differently than what families think they will. Here's a quick summary:

COA — EFC = Financial Need

Cost of Attendance
(total cost of attending the school, usually calculated on a per year basis)
+ tuition & fees 
+ room & board *   
+ books & supplies *
+ transportation *  
+ miscellaneous expenses *   
= COA total per year 

* = NOT typically covered by scholarships; may be partially covered by grants, work-study, loans, etc.

EFC
Estimated Family Contribution) portion of the Financial Aid equation
- NOT based on how much you have saved, or what YOU think you can afford
- gov't and colleges expect that you HAVE been saving, and that you will use current income and assets (including retirement $$) for college, and that parents will take out private loans to cover any shortfall in the ability to meet this EFC

Financial Need
(difference remaining between the Cost of Attending and the Estimated Family Contribution)
- colleges use the EFC amount and subtract it from their COA to come up with your Financial Need amount
- colleges meet 60-100% of this Need amount through offering a financial aid package
- the financial aid package will be an offer of a combination of:
+ loans
+ work-study
+ grants
+ scholarships
+ "self help" (term colleges use to mean "money the student will some how come up with on their own")


Any portion of financial need NOT met by the financial aid package must be covered by the family, usually in the form additional loans, but possibly by additional parent income/assets, help from relatives, or additional student income/assets. This is IN ADDITION to the EFC amount that colleges expect families to pay.

Sources of $$ in the Financial Aid Package to meet Financial Need
Once you apply to a college and are accepted, the college will offer a financial aid package to cover some or all of this amount of NEED. This aid comes in the form of:

- federal LOANS (federal student loans, offered to everyone; $5,500-$7,500/year for a maximum loan total of $31,000)
- federal WORK STUDY (federal $$ your student WORKS to EARN; offered if your EFC number is low enough; average award = $1850/year) 
- federal/state GRANTS (free federal $$; offered if your EFC number is low enough; avg. = $4000/year; max. = 6350/year)
- scholarships (free $$ from the college; usually just for tuition; awarded on academics (merit-based) and/or Financial Need (need-based))


All that to say -- as posters mentioned above, colleges that more fully "meet need" WILL be offering loans as part of how they "meet need". Note: you are not obligated to accept loans, and you can still receive the "free money" part of the financial aid package. (However, you would now need to cover the part of the financial aid package that was offered as loans, if you decline the loans portion of how the college "meets need".)

And again, the GED and having taken community college classes after taking the GED may put your DS in the "transfer student" category, and make him ineligible for scholarships that would normally be a part of the financial aid package.

You will have to put in a lot of research and contact each individual school to discuss how they will handle the GED/CC classes and student status, and how that will affect how they can "meet financial need".

Edited by Lori D.
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And one last thought -- sort of a side topic -- but 2 other things to consider as you research and consider the long-range college/career plans:

1. Realistically, what does it take to get a job in the landscape architecture / environmental design field? Will a BA be enough, or do firms who are hiring expect a Master's degree? It looks like this is a "flat" field -- no growth, just new graduates replacing retiring workers, so that may make getting a job more competitive.

From the US Bureau of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook, info about the career of Landscape Architect:
- requires a Bachelor or a Master's degree
- use an accredited program approved by the Landscape Architectural Accreditation Board
- after earning the degree, must by licensed by passing the Landscape Architect Registration Examination

Since family finances are a critical component in this process, it's important to understand up front what the long-range financial needs are going to be in order to end up actually eligible for the job he wants -- and if family finances can cover that or not.


2. If you just can't get the finances to work out at this time, perhaps a long-range tactic might work:

- after you graduate DS from your homeschool, DS moves to the state that has the accredited degree program he wants
- DS works entry level in his field of interest, getting experience, making contacts, and getting state residency
- when DS turns 24yo, parent financial information is no longer needed on the FAFSA, and DS applies for school & financial aid
- at that point, you could contribute that $20,000/year by directly paying for any expenses DS can't cover 


BEST of luck! Warm regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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2 hours ago, mermaidkitchen said:

That’s a good list. Does anyone have suggestions for colleges that are a bit larger that might meet close to need?

I know someone who did Landscape Architecture at Cornell University. The Ivies generally meet full need, but of course their acceptance rates are low. She was helped by having a community college degree, coming from a very low income family, and overcoming some pretty significant obstacles to success.

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6 hours ago, mermaidkitchen said:

We’ve already completed the fafsa. Our EFC is $3000 but I can’t find schools whose net price calculator is less than $30000

Re Warren Wilson, supposedly their average annual cost to students/parents is $24K.

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On 10/23/2021 at 8:15 PM, mermaidkitchen said:

I can’t figure out how to identify a financial safety. I can afford ~$20000 a year but they a seem to cost way more than that. I don’t know how to figure this out.

Sometimes the financial safety is two years of community college to save on costs, then two years at a four-year school.

Otherwise, the best you can do is keep running those financial aid calculators: Make sure you're looking at different types of schools (large/medium/small state U, private U's of different sizes and types, whether they are a close-match or easy to get in, etc).

Out of state public universities don't tend to be great for need-based aid for out of state students, but some have good merit aid for high grades/scores.  Here's an example of a school with a scholarship chart https://admissions.wvu.edu/cost-and-aid/scholarship-chart 

Schools that truly meet full need are mostly those that are reach schools for everyone. Run the Net Price Calculator at a prestigious, wealthy school like Harvard or Yale -- that is probably the best you're going to do for a need-based financial aid package anywhere. You can consider that to be "the best need-based price I'm likely to ever get" -- even if your kid isn't a candidate to be admitted to that school.

 

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On 10/23/2021 at 11:33 PM, mermaidkitchen said:

Delaware, landscape architecture or environmental design. A BA

I believe that a student living in Delaware may have a "plus" when they are considering Admission. They look for diversity in the students they are admitting and probably not a lot of students from Delaware are applying to them.  

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I see that West Virginia University has his desired program--a quick scan of their site looks as though an out-of-state student would pay about $36000 before scholarships. They have some charts of automatic scholarships for various grade points and SAT scores, so you could see where you might wind up after that. https://admissions.wvu.edu/cost-and-aid

South Dakota State also has landscape architecture. Out of state students pay around $26000 before scholarships or financial aid.. https://www.sdstate.edu/office-financial-aid/undergraduate-cost-attendance

There are a couple of ideas, anyway, for different parts of the country. Undoubtedly there are other good schools that are comparative bargains--it might just take some poking around.

I hope you find just the right place for him, and that he has a fantastic experience! Good luck!

Editing to add link to map of states with undergrad landscape architecture programs: https://www.asla.org/schools.aspx

Edited by Emerald Stoker
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Your looking at two years Community college getting phi theta kappa and then a phi theta kappa scholarship to a commutable university. That way he has access to the 7,500 loan the last two year.

Honesty it maybe a conversation that we had with our son going

" Look I know you've worked real hard and I'm so proud of you. I know you have your heart set on this but we can only pay for you to have an Associates of science degree (or trade) from x school. Here are a few majors I think you'll like. This doesn't have to be a forever career it's just so you can work and save up for what you really want. I'm so sorry and it's not fair but it's what we can afford." Then give him a little while. Then have him look at majors and apply.

 

My son found a highly lucrative career that he enjoys but is not his passion. He was able to get a scholarship to finish his BS but it was mostly online and he had to live at home. He's planing on continuing with his art, programing skills, and networking in hopes to one day get a master's in the field that he originally wanted (game dev.) He's almost finished with information science degree.

I'm sorry you may have to have this conversation with your son. It sucks but if he can save 1/3 of his income and stash that away for classes. He can live off campus in student dorms and take classes as he can pay. Look into your budget and see what possible to save. Maybe do a matching agreement up to the amount you can reasonably put in. For us it's $25 for every $100 he puts in.

 

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On 10/23/2021 at 11:15 PM, mermaidkitchen said:

I can’t figure out how to identify a financial safety. I can afford ~$20000 a year but they a seem to cost way more than that. I don’t know how to figure this out.

 

On 10/24/2021 at 8:09 AM, mermaidkitchen said:

We’ve already completed the fafsa. Our EFC is $3000 but I can’t find schools whose net price calculator is less than $30000

I think there is a typo in here. I’m going to assume your EFC is 30k and you can afford 20k.

Selective liberal arts colleges that meet need are mainly financial safeties for students with a low EFC. So, they make work for your son if your EFC is the 3k and not if it is 30K, which is more than you can afford.

The good news for you is that you don’t need or want a selective liberal arts school for a bachelors degree in landscape architecture. (I have a relative who was a longtime landscape architect who went to a state school and feels strongly about this.

https://www.asla.org/schools.aspx This shows the accredited landscape architecture programs. In a quick look, almost all the schools I saw were state schools. The few that were or could have been private schools were mainly accredited only for master’s degrees. (It was a quick look and you/your son should look closer to look for places he may want to apply.)

When looking for that list, I found this ranking of landscape architecture program by Design Inselligence. The top ranked bachelor programs were almost all state schools, the masters programs had a mix.

Undergraduate 

School Name2018-192019-20

Pennsylvania State University31

Louisiana State University12

Cornell University23

University of Georgia44

Ohio State University55

California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo66

Purdue University77

Ball State University128

Michigan State University109

Iowa State University810

Texas A&M University911

California State Polytechnic University, Pomona1112

Virginia Tech1413

Clemson University1814

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign1315

University of Oregon1716

University of California, Davis1417

University of Wisconsin, Madison1918

University of Washington1619

Arizona State University2120

State University of New York, Syracuse2421

Colorado State University2622

University of Massachusetts, Amherst2323

University of Kentucky2024

Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey2525

 

In a weird coincidence, one of my high schoolers received a flyer from LSU yesterday about out of state scholarships, so that might be an option. I can find the flyer if you are interested.

 

Since you mentioned hooks, I saw a HBCU on the list of schools with landscape architecture. Assuming your son is not Black, he would have a hook there. https://www.ncat.edu/academics/majors-minors-and-programs/index.php

 

The most obvious answer to affording college for your son may be attending school in-state, either for 2 or 4 years. 

Delaware has a landscape architecture program, so it may be your best financial option. (Another plus is They may be more accustomed to homeschool students with GEDs than other schools.)

It looks like annual cost of attendance at Delaware is 31,000. However, it says it offers free tuition for students with household income under 75,000. Have you run their net price calculator?

For Delaware residents with family incomes of less than $75,000,* we aim to cover your tuition costs at UD—with grants and scholarships, money that does not need to be paid back.  

Families with incomes greater than $75,000 or who have assets over $50,000 may also benefit from UD's First State Promise by receiving grant funding as part of their financial aid award.

Our First State Promise is for University of Delaware undergraduate students who will attend the Newark campus full time. 

*Household size as well as family assets in excess of $50,000 may affect eligibility for need-based grants. A family’s primary residence is not considered when evaluating a family’s assets. Students living at home may be eligible for need-based aid less than tuition due to lower cost of attendance.

….

For my strange suggestion of the day, i would recommend your son get a job working at Home Depot, because they offer “immediate “ tuition reimbursement for part-time employees. They also have a plant department, which will allow your son work with something he is interested in. My relative owns a nursery in addition to designing.

Eligibility to Apply for Tuition Reimbursement
Salaried, full-time hourly and part-time hourly associates are eligible to apply for tuition reimbursement after hire date. 

https://secure.livethehealthyorangelife.com/tuition_reimbursement

Good luck to your son. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

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If Landscape Architecture is under Agriculture, and your son is interested in an HBCU, the 1890 scholarship may apply. This is a truly awesome program through USDA which pays everything(including a laptop and books) and provides paid internships to qualifying agriculture students at land grant HBCUs. Many of these are schools where agriculture was both one of the first and one of their top majors and are incredible programs.  NC A&T is on the list. 

Edited by Dmmetler
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6 hours ago, NewnameC said:

 

For my strange suggestion of the day, i would recommend your son get a job working at Home Depot, because they offer “immediate “ tuition reimbursement for part-time employees. They also have a plant department, which will allow your son work with something he is interested in. My relative owns a nursery in addition to designing.

Eligibility to Apply for Tuition Reimbursement
Salaried, full-time hourly and part-time hourly associates are eligible to apply for tuition reimbursement after hire date. 

https://secure.livethehealthyorangelife.com/tuition_reimbursement

Good luck to your son. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s a good suggestion. A landscape architect that I know also owns a nursery. He started a yard care business while in high school and continued running it while getting his college degree and living at home. Now he has a very large and successful business with yard care, design and landscaping, and a nursery. Not to mention that he owns the large parcel of land where his business is located and its value has skyrocketed.

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