Interesting article about working conditions in the film industry

[bookbard]

I did hear vaguely about industrial action this week in the USA around working conditions in the film industry. Here's an article about it from the Australian perspective. I found one quote particularly interesting: that choosing the industry often meant women forgoing having children, because they could not keep working in the field and take the time off. As usual, women paying the price.

 ‘It’s only a matter of time’: Australian film industry crew say long days are dangerous and potentially deadly | Culture | The Guardian

[Spy Car]

Working in television/film in Hollywood has traditionally been a notoriously difficult path in terms of work hours.

I spent my career in this field (as did my father) and I never had "regular" hours.

For nearly a decade I worked on a show where my work "week" was 12 days on and two days off and that so-called "weekend" was very often sacrificed and the "days" were 10 hours minimum and often turned into multiple all-nighters when taping deadlines approached.

Working like that is brutal despite the rewards of interesting work and good pay.

I do think women and those who are raising children suffer considerably in terms of job competitiveness, as there has always been a "the-show-must-go-on" mentality that makes it nigh on impossible to have a family without a partner who is either not working in the business or is a stay at home parent who can pull up the slack.

I do hope the IATSE agreement provides a little more workplace sanity, but long hours are the nature of the business.

Bill

 

[WildflowerMom]

The film industry has long been a place of horrors for women (and children, frankly).     It is disgusting.
(I mean far beyond just working hours…) 

Edited October 20, 2021 by WildflowerMom

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Working in television/film in Hollywood has traditionally been a notoriously difficult path in terms of work hours.

I spent my career in this field (as did my father) and I never had "regular" hours.

For nearly a decade I worked on a show where my work "week" was 12 days on and two days off and that so-called "weekend" was very often sacrificed and the "days" were 10 hours minimum and often turned into multiple all-nighters when taping deadlines approached.

Working like that is brutal despite the rewards of interesting work and good pay.

I do think women and those who are raising children suffer considerably in terms of job competitiveness, as there has always been a "the-show-must-go-on" mentality that makes it nigh on impossible to have a family without a partner who is either not working in the business or is a stay at home parent who can pull up the slack.

I do hope the IATSE agreement provides a little more workplace sanity, but long hours are the nature of the business.

Bill

 

But, it COULD change if there was the will. I mean, maybe actors couldn't make millions per episode or whatever ridiculousness that some do, etc etc...but there is no NEED as a society for us to have inhumane working hours anywhere, ESPECIALLY in entertainment of all things. It's sad. (and I know it isn't just this industry - but it's particulary ridiculous in entertainment. It's not like a someone is going to die if fewer episodes get made or whatever)

[Spy Car]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

But, it COULD change if there was the will. I mean, maybe actors couldn't make millions per episode or whatever ridiculousness that some do, etc etc...but there is no NEED as a society for us to have inhumane working hours anywhere, ESPECIALLY in entertainment of all things. It's sad. (and I know it isn't just this industry - but it's particulary ridiculous in entertainment. It's not like a someone is going to die if fewer episodes get made or whatever)

I hope things get better, but it isn't that easy to get films and television shows completed working banker's hours.

Bill

 

[Carrie12345]

59 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I hope things get better, but it isn't that easy to get films and television shows completed working banker's hours.

Bill

 

There will always be special circumstances to handle, but regularly-sane expectations can balance that out, to some degree.

I have a spouse who’s had to travel for up to 8 weeks working 16 (or more) hours a day, 7 days a week, because that’s how areas recover from natural disasters. That’s not supposed to mean working 16/7 outside of those irregular events.

[Spy Car]

11 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

There will always be special circumstances to handle, but regularly-sane expectations can balance that out, to some degree.

I have a spouse who’s had to travel for up to 8 weeks working 16 (or more) hours a day, 7 days a week, because that’s how areas recover from natural disasters. That’s not supposed to mean working 16/7 outside of those irregular events.

Working on a film is rather like working on a natural disaster. Nature of the business.

People make a lot of money (lots of OT) and don't necessarily know when the next gig will happen. So they work very hard and bank their money. Many choose to take time off between gigs voluntarily and others have no choice. 

It isn't easy to change the nature of film production work. It will never be a 40 hour week industry.

Bill

 

[Carol in Cal.]

It's always cheaper to get people to work long hours, in every field.  And field by field the operating assumptions around whether that is acceptable have changed.  Maybe this one will be next.  It doesn't seem that it would be much harder than the rest--maybe more expensive, but not fundamentally more difficult.

[ktgrok]

17 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Working on a film is rather like working on a natural disaster. Nature of the business.

People make a lot of money (lots of OT) and don't necessarily know when the next gig will happen. So they work very hard and bank their money. Many choose to take time off between gigs voluntarily and others have no choice. 

It isn't easy to change the nature of film production work. It will never be a 40 hour week industry.

Bill

 

But again, it doesn't HAVE to be that way. It just is. Just like doctors shouldn't HAVE to do residencies that are such long shifts...that's how it is done, but it doesn't have to be that way. 

[Spy Car]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

But again, it doesn't HAVE to be that way. It just is. Just like doctors shouldn't HAVE to do residencies that are such long shifts...that's how it is done, but it doesn't have to be that way. 

There are aspects of television and film production that lead to inherently long hours. I grew up in an industry home and worked in the business for my entire career. This was my life.

It is easy to say "it doesn't need to be that way," but it just ain't so.

Bill

Edited October 21, 2021 by Susan Wise Bauer
Eliminated gratuitous personal insult.

[Spy Car]

23 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

It's always cheaper to get people to work long hours, in every field.  And field by field the operating assumptions around whether that is acceptable have changed.  Maybe this one will be next.  It doesn't seem that it would be much harder than the rest--maybe more expensive, but not fundamentally more difficult.

You can't just necessarily sub out one person for another. In a few cases, maybe, but in the main, no.

And many of the people in jobs where you might be able to swap people, there are strong unions to protect the livelihoods of those workers who count on the overtime pay.

It is a complicated situation.  

Bill

[Melissa Louise]

11 hours ago, bookbard said:

I did hear vaguely about industrial action this week in the USA around working conditions in the film industry. Here's an article about it from the Australian perspective. I found one quote particularly interesting: that choosing the industry often meant women forgoing having children, because they could not keep working in the field and take the time off. As usual, women paying the price.

 ‘It’s only a matter of time’: Australian film industry crew say long days are dangerous and potentially deadly | Culture | The Guardian

Marry that to the open secrets around big name male actors getting away with sexual abuse/assault of female actors...what an industry! 

Knowing how many coverups take place has really changed my ability to enjoy film, theatre etc. 

 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

I realize that you think you have an expert opinion on everything (even when you really know nothing about it) but there are aspects of television and film production that lead to inherently long hours. I grew up in an industry home and worked in the business for my entire career. This was my life.

It is easy to say "it doesn't need to be that way," but it just ain't so.

Bill

I'm not at all sure why you are attacking me personally over this, and it isn't the first time either. But rest assured, I do not think I'm an expert on the film industry.

What I am saying is that people's health is being sacrificed for entertainment in many cases, and we as a society need to rethink the ethics of that. The television/film industry is one place this happens, and there are many others, and we as consumers probably should be more aware of the working conditions that create our entertainment. 

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

I'm not at all sure why you are attacking me personally over this, and it isn't the first time either. But rest assured, I do not think I'm an expert on the film industry.

What I am saying is that people's health is being sacrificed for entertainment in many cases, and we as a society need to rethink the ethics of that. The television/film industry is one place this happens, and there are many others, and we as consumers probably should be more aware of the working conditions that create our entertainment. 

No Katie, it is you. You constantly correct me about things that I know firsthand. That gets old.

Many people are attracted to the film industry precisely because they like the long hours (and the over-time that comes with it) and the tendency to to have intense work periods and then to have a hiatus. It tends to be a cyclical business and those entering the industry know that. A terrible industry for someone to chose who want a regular job with regular hours.

Creatives on sets are not replaceable and crew members who theoretically might be swapped out (say a Teamster driver) tend to resist, as that would cut their pay considerably. It is a complicated situation.

Film and television production isn't the sort of work that one can necessarily limit to 8 or 10 hours and/or 5 days a week. Such hours are rare due to the inherent nature of the business.

There do need to be limits and I support IATSE for pushing producers for concessions.

Bill

 

 

 

 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

But again, it doesn't HAVE to be that way. It just is. Just like doctors shouldn't HAVE to do residencies that are such long shifts...that's how it is done, but it doesn't have to be that way. 

Actually they limited hours for residency shifts several years ago.  Of course when they get in the “real” world no such limits exist.  I wish there had been.  

[ktgrok]

43 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

No Katie, it is you. You constantly correct me about things that I know firsthand. That gets old.

Many people are attracted to the film industry precisely because they like the long hours (and the over-time that comes with it) and the tendency to to have intense work periods and then to have a hiatus. It tends to be a cyclical business and those entering the industry know that. A terrible industry for someone to chose who want a regular job with regular hours.

Creatives on sets are not replaceable and crew members who theoretically might be swapped out (say a Teamster driver) tend to resist, as that would cut their pay considerably. It is a complicated situation.

Film and television production isn't the sort of work that one can necessarily limit to 8 or 10 hours and/or 5 days a week. Such hours are rare due to the inherent nature of the business.

There do need to be limits and I support IATSE for pushing producers for concessions.

Bill

 

 

 

 

Disagreeing with you, or even expressing an opinion different than yours, is not correcting you. 

I can state that I feel that my entertainment shouldn't come at a price of the well being of those working in the industry, and it not be a personal attack or correction. I get that you have personal experience, but  it seems that 60,000 plus people who also have experience, and are currently in the industry, agree that things need to change. 

There are people doing it differently, especially in other parts of the world. Americans are smart, and we could figure out a better way if there was enough will for it. It might mean stars get paid less, or producers do, or there are fewer episodes per season, etc etc. I don't know, and fully admit I don't. But that doesn't mean that there aren't many in the industry who also think things should be more humane, and some of them do have ideas on how to do it. 

This is a discussion board, and we can discuss various thoughts and ideas without it getting ugly. Me disagreeing doesn't require you to personally attack me. I certainly don't mean my ideas to be an attack against you. 

Anyway, one article out of many I saw https://optimizeyourself.me/dear-hollywood-its-time-for-an-intervention-about-hours-we-work/

Edited October 20, 2021 by ktgrok