Nart Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 My 9th grade son does fine in math but he isn’t interested it in it. He was homeschooled in 7th and did Foerster algebra. He then went attended a small private school and repeated algebra since that was the only math option. His public high school does integrated math so they were going to place him in Math 1H so it would be the third year of repeating algebra concepts. So he took geometry from Silicon high over summer (not rigorous at all and I think he just figured out how to look up answers so I don’t think he really learned much at all). I convinced the school to let him take intermediate algebra at our local community college and they said that is fine but he will then need to do the math sequence there. So this semester after forester math, college intermediate algebra has been really easy for him. The first half has been a review he says. So next semester the options are: 1) take trigonometry at the college - we are in CA and this class doesn’t count as a UC honors class so strategically it is better if he takes it now as a 9th grader. Not sure if it is better to take after college algebra. 2) college algebra - it does count as honors so perhaps it would be better to take next year as a 10th grader. 3) don’t take a college class and instead review geometry through studying math sections of ACT. And spend extra time doing ACT or SAT prep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmarm Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Are you sure that the college will allow him to go from Intermediate Algebra to Trigonometry? Most of the colleges that I've worked at or have knowledge of put "College Algebra" as the math course that everything else depends on. Once you've passed College Algebra you can choose which math course you're going to take next. For non-STEM majors, colleges allow Intermediate Algebra -> Liberal Arts Math or Statistics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, mathmarm said: Are you sure that the college will allow him to go from Intermediate Algebra to Trigonometry? Most of the colleges that I've worked at or have knowledge of put "College Algebra" as the math course that everything else depends on. Once you've passed College Algebra you can choose which math course you're going to take next. For non-STEM majors, colleges allow Intermediate Algebra -> Liberal Arts Math or Statistics. Yes. The only prerequisite for trig is intermediate algebra at this community college. The hardest thing was getting him into intermediate algebra and proving he had taken algebra. That involved multiple emails. He is in 9th grade so he has to keep taking math classes through senior year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmarm Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Nart said: Yes. The only prerequisite for trig is intermediate algebra at this community college. The hardest thing was getting him into intermediate algebra and proving he had taken algebra. That involved multiple emails. He is in 9th grade so he has to keep taking math classes through senior year. Then my instinctive response (no extra research or anything) is to do College Algebra --> Trig, because Trig goes down easier if you are really fluent with Algebraic manipulations and can focus on the trig without getting tangled in algebraic missteps. Proving trig identities just requires flexibility and ease with algebraic manipulation and substitutions. Also, graphing by hand should be firmly in place by the time that you get to trig, in my opinion. In college algebra, you graph a lot of different functions and transform them. College Algebra typically teaches a good deal of graphing and transforming graphs--a skill that's also done in Trig, but trig notation looks a bit scarier. Taking college algebra first will allow your student a little more time to bone up his algebra and to apply his foundation in more extensive ways. Trig is new content and concepts that rely on fluent algebra to follow along. Edited October 17, 2021 by mathmarm Grammar and coherency were left out in my first submission! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, mathmarm said: Then my instinctive response (no extra research or anything) is to do College Algebra --> Trig. because Trig goes down easier if you are really fluent with Algebraic manipulations and can focus on the trig without getting tangled in algebra. Also, graphing by hand should be firmly in place by the time that you get to trig, in my opinion. You graph a lot of different functions and transform them. College Algebra typically includes a good deal of graphing and transforming graphs--a skill that's also done in Trig, but trig notation looks a bit scarier. If you're adept at graphing a wider assortment of functions by hand, then graphing in Trig is just more of the same but with a few extensions and restrictions. Proving trig identities just requires flexibility and ease with algebraic manipulation and substitutions. Taking college algebra first will allow your student a little more time to bone up his algebra and to apply his foundation in more extensive ways. Trig is new content and concepts that rely on fluent algebra to follow along. Thank you, this is helpful. I don’t think there is anymore graphing by hand though. All work is submitted online as are tests. You graph on an online system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmarm Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just now, Nart said: Thank you, this is helpful. I don’t think there is anymore graphing by hand though. All work is submitted online as are tests. You graph on an online system. Hopefully, your student is still doing their work with pencil and paper, but putting in his final results on the computer. If not, then I strongly urge you to start him on the practice next class period. It's very good for short term retention and long term mastery in math to write down and manipulate equations with pen and paper. I won't harp about it, but please make sure that he's systematically writing down and solving problems and graphing problems by hand and not just drag-and-dropping points onto a coordinate plane on the screen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 27 minutes ago, Nart said: He is in 9th grade so he has to keep taking math classes through senior year. What does the community college math progression chart says? My DS16 isn’t taking any math class for credit as a senior but we are homeschooling. Example of a progression chart from one of my local community college https://www.westvalley.edu/academics/mathematics/_files/pdf/math-progression-chart.pdf Also, Calpoly does consider 9th grade results for their GPA computation. The rest of the state universities calculate using 10th and 11th grades. DS16 had filled up both apps and the CSU app shows their calculated GPA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, mathmarm said: Hopefully, your student is still doing their work with pencil and paper, but putting in his final results on the computer. If not, then I strongly urge you to start him on the practice next class period. It's very good for short term retention and long term mastery in math to write down and manipulate equations with pen and paper. I won't harp about it, but please make sure that he's systematically writing down and solving problems and graphing problems by hand and not just drag-and-dropping points onto a coordinate plane on the screen. He does calculations with dry erase pens on a blank white board that is around 10 x14 and he has another white board that is for graphing that has grid lines. He prefers that but the downside is nothing is saved. He then puts the answer into a mathlab computer program that automatically grades homework and tests. I don’t think he bothers most time using the grid and instead put it into the computer. I am am only occasionally there to watch but when I am he isn’t having any difficulties so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, Arcadia said: What does the community college math progression chart says? My DS16 isn’t taking any math class for credit as a senior but we are homeschooling. Example of a progression chart from one of my local community college https://www.westvalley.edu/academics/mathematics/_files/pdf/math-progression-chart.pdf Also, Calpoly does consider 9th grade results for their GPA computation. The rest of the state universities calculate using 10th and 11th grades. DS16 had filled up both apps and the CSU app shows their calculated GPA. Thanks for the info on cal poly slo. I didn’t realize they included 9th grade in gpa calculation. I think they are the only uc or cal state who does. There are several math progression charts for his CC but since he isn’t sure what he will major in, the path doesn’t line up directly for a high school student. I would like him to eventually take stats and calculus just to be more prepared and to keep go options open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Nart said: There are several math progression charts for his CC but since he isn’t sure what he will major in, the path doesn’t line up directly for a high school student. I would like him to eventually take stats and calculus just to be more prepared and to keep go options open. I would pick the STEM option. That would give the most choices to fall back on. My kids did AP statistics in a summer intensive class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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