Spryte Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 I know we have a thread somewhere, but can’t find it. I just had mine. The first two shots — didn’t even feel them. This one — holy cannoli. Worst shot I’ve ever had. It’s been 30 minutes and the pain is still pretty intense. I watched the pharmacist do DH’s shot afterwards. He went straight in, as far as the needle would go, then injected. Weird angle because we were standing. Pain radiating up my neck, and just a constant sharp pain for now. Any tips on after care? I can’t take NSAIDS, but can take one tylenol once in a while. Ugh. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildflowerMom Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Which one did you get? My parents got theirs yesterday, Pfizer. My mom is wiped out, in pain. My dad's wasn't as bad. They've been taking Tylenol but say it doesn't last long enough. 🤷🏻♀️ I don't know what the alternative is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, Spryte said: I know we have a thread somewhere, but can’t find it. I just had mine. The first two shots — didn’t even feel them. This one — holy cannoli. Worst shot I’ve ever had. It’s been 30 minutes and the pain is still pretty intense. I watched the pharmacist do DH’s shot afterwards. He went straight in, as far as the needle would go, then injected. Weird angle because we were standing. Pain radiating up my neck, and just a constant sharp pain for now. Any tips on after care? I can’t take NSAIDS, but can take one tylenol once in a while. Ugh. It sounds like they literally hit a nerve. Try ice. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Mine was also more painful going in that my others. Not sure why. And I did have a painful lump for about 5 days, which I didn't with the others. No other side effects. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 Just now, Katy said: It sounds like they literally hit a nerve. Try ice. Ah, yes, they probably did. I’m icing it and feel like there’s a permanent wince on my face. Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitestavern Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 DH takes Curamin, a natural pain reliever. You can find it at any health food store.It really works for him. Hope you're feeling better soon. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 55 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said: Which one did you get? My parents got theirs yesterday, Pfizer. My mom is wiped out, in pain. My dad's wasn't as bad. They've been taking Tylenol but say it doesn't last long enough. 🤷🏻♀️ I don't know what the alternative is. Could they alternate Tylenol and ibuprofen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, whitestavern said: DH takes Curamin, a natural pain reliever. You can find it at any health food store.It really works for him. Hope you're feeling better soon. I’ll look it up. NSAIDs give me elevated liver enzymes so none of those for me! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, WildflowerMom said: Which one did you get? My parents got theirs yesterday, Pfizer. My mom is wiped out, in pain. My dad's wasn't as bad. They've been taking Tylenol but say it doesn't last long enough. 🤷🏻♀️ I don't know what the alternative is. Pfizer here, too. Where is your mom’s pain? Arm? Everywhere? I hope they both feel better soon! Glad they got it. I have a bad day or two just from flu shots, and I think my first two Covid shots gave me a rough 3-4 days. But those I barely felt go in. This felt like a poorly given shot, and now I’m feeling a bit achey and crummy on top of it. Blech! Ice helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Others complained of nerve symptoms from injections along the way in these threads. My first shots were much worse than my booster. I wonder if some of these folks are better at placing injections than others. I iced a lot for one of mine . Hope you feel better soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Just had someone leave work sick after getting her Pfizer booster yesterday. Swollen lymph glands, chills, high fever, body aches bad enough she was crying. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Sounds like they didn't know how to give shots. I barely even felt mine, and only had a tiny bit of arm soreness this time. No headaches or fatigue like before. Basically, nothing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 I had my third Pfizer a week ago, almost eight months from my second, and my reaction was the least of the three. A sore arm for about a day and a medium headache and some tiredness the next day. For the second, starting about six hours afterwards I slept for almost 18 hours and had a bad headache. I also had a bit of a fever with the first two and a sore arm both times. So my order of reaction from worst to least was second, first, third. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 My parents had theirs (Pfizer) about a week ago. They said they didn't really have any side effects. However, my mom said the shot hurt a lot and bled more than usual. I am getting my third Pfizer shot (booster?) at the end of the month and am a bit nervous about it. I was down for around a week last shot, plus I have had ongoing tinnitus since the first shot and I am hoping it doesn't get worse. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth86 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 My dad got 3rd dose of Moderna. No reaction at all to shots 1 and 2, but after shot 3, he was sick all the next day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 My third was way easier than my 2nd. I had some mild achiness for about 48 hours but that could have been a mild RA flare as I had taken a two week break from my meds. I felt no different than any other day other than I had swollen lymph nodes in my armpits for several days afterwards. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Watching this thread closely. I'm due to get my 3rd shot in a week. I'm not sure scheduling it before work was such a great idea or when I have to work the next day, but that was the only day they offer it at work at my location until November. My 1st shot put me out of commission for a couple days (had to leave clinicals.) I had very few symptoms with my 2nd shot. Here's hoping this one won't be a doozy. And my boss may have to go out of town unexpectedly so they will need all hands on deck that week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Although I have serious (as in ultimately terminal ..... but life is terminal) heath issue, I had no problems with any of my three Pfizer vaccines. While I did have slight tenderness for a day or so at injection site, I did not consider this a side effect but rather an expected effect. I had my booster within a couple days of approval for the immuno-compromised. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 DH and I had our third doses (we're both immune compromised) in August. The actual injection was no different than the others. DH had only a very slightly sore arm, same as the first two. I had a slightly more sore arm than with either of the first two doses, plus I felt like the lymph node in my armpit on the injection side was swollen for about 12 hours the day after. All in all the third dose was like the first for us--very minimal side effects. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSera Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Jaybee said: Sounds like they didn't know how to give shots. Sounds this way to me as well. That doesn't sound like a reaction to the contents of the shot but to the mechanism of delivery. I'm really sorry to hear. I hope the pain is short lived. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaelAldrich Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 The DH and I got the Pfizer booster last week. Our first two shots were uncomplicated aside from an itchy covid arm lump I got the second vaccine. This time we both were tired, slightly feverish, and had sore arms for a day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 My parents got theirs last week. My mom had no side effects whatsoever. (She also had no reactions to the first two.). My dad was a little tired and achy the day after. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longtime Lurker Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 My booster (Pfizer) side effects were milder than after the second shot. Some muscle aches and a swollen axillary lymph node. Very mild headache (not the horrible splitting headache I had after shot #2). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSera Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 My dad had no side effects at all from his booster and my mom had similar to her second--achey , headache, and a bit feverish. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Had my third Pfizer Saturday morning and it was very like my second. No pain at all at the time of the shot--felt fine all day. Chills at about 8:30pm and gradually worsening arm pain that hurt all night and the next 36 hours maybe. Fever of 99-100 and lots of napping all day Sunday. Tired and a little shaky Monday morning, but was able to go to work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 My arm discomfort wasn't bad.I felt only half as bad as my second shot and didn't sleep well, swollen lymph node, mild nausea, tired, head felt funny but no bad headache for a good two days. It still beats Covid. I will take boosters as recommended . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildflowerMom Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 So this is probably a stupid question, but why are covid shots more painful (for a lot of us) than other shots, including flu? Now last year, my flu shot did make me feel a little wonky for a bit, the first time it’s ever done that, so maybe it’s an AI response? But the second covid vax was just awful for about 24 hours (way better than a lot of people, but still the pain was real). I am worried about the booster but I’m still glad to get it in December. Just wondering about the “whys” behind the pain… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said: So this is probably a stupid question, but why are covid shots more painful (for a lot of us) than other shots, including flu? Now last year, my flu shot did make me feel a little wonky for a bit, the first time it’s ever done that, so maybe it’s an AI response? But the second covid vax was just awful for about 24 hours (way better than a lot of people, but still the pain was real). I am worried about the booster but I’m still glad to get it in December. Just wondering about the “whys” behind the pain… I don’t know, but hope it’s our immune systems responding as they should. Flu shots have always made me sick for a few days, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 It does sound like it was just a poorly placed injection. My dh will have his Pfizer booster on Saturday. I hope it goes well! He was pretty sick from the second. (But worth it, either way!) I don't think Moderna is even being offered yet as a booster in our state. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 29 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said: So this is probably a stupid question, but why are covid shots more painful (for a lot of us) than other shots, including flu? Well, for me, they weren't. 🤷♀️And for my third one, I had the flu shot a couple of minutes before, and it hurt worse (though I usually don't feel it much). I hardly felt the covid at all, whereas the flu I felt that general achy feeling you do sometimes when getting an injection as the medicine goes in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Mine was painful going in, but that's cause I got it at a pharmacy where the pharmacist was doing something else and had to take time away and didn't do it carefully. I'd guess that something similar happened to a few people? Before, there were serious vaccine clinics where people were giving shots all day and got good at it. Right now, it's much more random who you get. As for side effects, it was easier than my 2nd shot by a bunch but harder than my first shot. I was achy the next two days and got an extremely mild headache for longer than that... so mild I can't even tell you how long it lasted. I don't I'd have even noticed the headache except that I got the less mild version last time, and it was definitely reminiscent of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 How are you doing, @Spryte? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 8 hours ago, WildflowerMom said: So this is probably a stupid question, but why are covid shots more painful (for a lot of us) than other shots, including flu? Now last year, my flu shot did make me feel a little wonky for a bit, the first time it’s ever done that, so maybe it’s an AI response? But the second covid vax was just awful for about 24 hours (way better than a lot of people, but still the pain was real). I am worried about the booster but I’m still glad to get it in December. Just wondering about the “whys” behind the pain… I'm not sure whether you're meaning pain from the injections or painful side effects afterwards. But FWIW -- I had both a flu and a pneumonia shot Monday, and both of those injections were more painful than any of the three Covid doses I've had. I've never had the pneumonia vaccine before, so I don't know if that one is usually a little more hurty or not. I've had tons of flu vaccines and don't remember anything noteworthy, so I was surprised this one was hurty going in. My arms were more sore from those than from any of the Covid vaccines. My shingles injections didn't hurt going in, but my arm was more sore, red and swollen than for any vaccine other than tetanus. (FWIW, I inject a weekly RA medication that's well known for being painful. So I'm used to injection pain and am not particularly bothered by it. And neither the pneumonia nor the flu on Monday were anywhere in the same league as that. But the flu was definitely more than I expected based on past experience.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, Pawz4me said: I'm not sure whether you're meaning pain from the injections or painful side effects afterwards. But FWIW -- I had both a flu and a pneumonia shot Monday, and both of those injections were more painful than any of the three Covid doses I've had. I've never had the pneumonia vaccine before, so I don't know if that one is usually a little more hurty or not. I've had tons of flu vaccines and don't remember anything noteworthy, so I was surprised this one was hurty going in. My arms were more sore from those than from any of the Covid vaccines. My shingles injections didn't hurt going in, but my arm was more sore, red and swollen than for any vaccine other than tetanus. (FWIW, I inject a weekly RA medication that's well known for being painful. So I'm used to injection pain and am not particularly bothered by it. And neither the pneumonia nor the flu on Monday were anywhere in the same league as that. But the flu was definitely more than I expected based on past experience.) I had a pneumonia vaccine - Prevenar 13 - last year and I ended up sitting on the floor of the pharmacy for about half an hour feeling dreadful. I'm glad I had it, but I wasn't expecting that. I haven't had my Covid booster yet. Expecting it six months after my second jab, so late November. Getting my flu jab on Monday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 It’s not that it’s “poorly placed.” That implies some people are more skilled at guessing where the nerves run through your arm. It’s just bad luck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 13 hours ago, KSera said: Sounds this way to me as well. That doesn't sound like a reaction to the contents of the shot but to the mechanism of delivery. I'm really sorry to hear. I hope the pain is short lived. I'm thinking same with mine. It hurt going in, which my first two didn't at all. And had pain within minutes in that arm, again didnt happen with the first two. I'm wondering if shot was at a different temperature, or needle size was different, or placement, or what. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, ktgrok said: I'm thinking same with mine. It hurt going in, which my first two didn't at all. And had pain within minutes in that arm, again didnt happen with the first two. I'm wondering if shot was at a different temperature, or needle size was different, or placement, or what. For me, it seemed to be level of care of the person giving the shot. So placement, I guess? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said: For me, it seemed to be level of care of the person giving the shot. So placement, I guess? good point. And in fact, I got this one at the pharmacy and I feel like pharmacy shots hurt more than ones given by someone who does shots all day long every day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, ktgrok said: good point. And in fact, I got this one at the pharmacy and I feel like pharmacy shots hurt more than ones given by someone who does shots all day long every day. I got pharmacy shots before, but they had a whole clinic set up, and people were CAREFUL. This time, I got a pharmacy shot, and some busy pharmacist had to run out and do it real quick before getting back to his real business. So he wasn't all that careful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 My first two didn’t hurt at all, in fact I didn’t even really feel them. They were at a mass clinic. I had side effects after, but no pain with the actual shot. This one was a pharmacy shot, it was completely packed in there, and he was probably in a hurry. Also, it looked to me like he wasn’t comfortable giving shots. My arm hurts this morning, but not as bad as last night. I am having aching pains everywhere, and feel pretty miserable. Kind of like the body pains one has with flu. I will take my allotted half Tylenol dose when I can’t stand it anymore. DH feels mostly fine but says his arm hurts like crazy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I haven't had a booster, but I did not feel anything when I got my COVID vaccine. I did have side effects starting about eight hours later (high fever, chills, etc.), but I had no pain or soreness at the injection site. I had the shot at a vaccine clinic with student nurses. The student who gave me mine was extremely nervous because I had reported a severe reaction to an IV medicine before and they had the director of the clinic standing over her observing to watch for any sign of allergic reaction. I had the flu vaccine on Wednesday, also at a student nurse clinic. I did not have any pain at the time of the shot but by that evening my arm was very sore and I had trouble sleeping; I had a headache and felt miserable all day yesterday, which I don't know if I should attribute to the vaccine itself or the lack of sleep (due to the vaccine). The student nurses that I have had are definitely not very experienced; perhaps they are being more intentional and careful, but I have found that I have less pain when I have an injection with them than with the nurses at my doctor's office. I have heard it suggested that people are more tense about the COVID vaccine and don't relax their arm as much as when getting some other vaccines, causing more soreness at the injection site. I have also heard that it may be the termperature that the vaccine is at the time of injection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I got my booster last week. It wasn’t any more painful than a flu shot going in. My arm was pretty sore for a few days after, but it wasn’t as sore as with a tetanus booster. I had a slight headache the next day, but that isn’t really a side effect because I had the same headache before I got the booster. I was extra sleepy the next day as well, but that might are might not be a side effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Minor muscle aches and fatigue, and I got the flu shot at the same time. Much easier than the first two Pfizers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Katy said: It’s not that it’s “poorly placed.” That implies some people are more skilled at guessing where the nerves run through your arm. It’s just bad luck. Agreed. Outside of skill, everyone's anatomy is a little different with nerves and tiny blood vessels. I got tons of allergy shots for years, and the same nurses did them over and over, but once in a while, they'd hit a nerve or a tiny blood vessel--ouch! They did shots day in, day out, and allergy shots aren't even deep ones, so it wasn't that they didn't know where to give them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 41 minutes ago, kbutton said: Agreed. Outside of skill, everyone's anatomy is a little different with nerves and tiny blood vessels. I got tons of allergy shots for years, and the same nurses did them over and over, but once in a while, they'd hit a nerve or a tiny blood vessel--ouch! They did shots day in, day out, and allergy shots aren't even deep ones, so it wasn't that they didn't know where to give them. That makes sense. I think mine did hit something, because honestly the first two were the least painful shots I have EVER had. It's such a small dose, small needle, etc. But this one was an OUCH, then I got may bandaid and walked to the front of the store and it started aching before I made it to the front doors. Which also didn't happen the first two times. I ended up with a big hard hot swelling there..maybe hit a blood vessel that leaked into the muscle, making a hematoma or something. that would make sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSera Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Bootsie said: I have also heard that it may be the termperature that the vaccine is at the time of injection. Yes to this. When we had one of our drive up doses given, we were talking to the guy giving it about the temperature requirements of the shots and how long they can stay out of the freezer, because it was a hot day. On a day like that, they were taking the shots directly out of the freezer and warming them up just in their hand between the freezer and the car before administering them. I could certainly see with shots coming out of the deep freezer, the temperature could make a real difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildflowerMom Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 6 hours ago, Pawz4me said: I'm not sure whether you're meaning pain from the injections or painful side effects afterwards. But FWIW -- I had both a flu and a pneumonia shot Monday, and both of those injections were more painful than any of the three Covid doses I've had. I've never had the pneumonia vaccine before, so I don't know if that one is usually a little more hurty or not. I've had tons of flu vaccines and don't remember anything noteworthy, so I was surprised this one was hurty going in. My arms were more sore from those than from any of the Covid vaccines. My shingles injections didn't hurt going in, but my arm was more sore, red and swollen than for any vaccine other than tetanus. (FWIW, I inject a weekly RA medication that's well known for being painful. So I'm used to injection pain and am not particularly bothered by it. And neither the pneumonia nor the flu on Monday were anywhere in the same league as that. But the flu was definitely more than I expected based on past experience.) I mean the side effects that sometimes last for days. I've never had that with any other vax. I have had pain when they inject you and localized pain (I'm looking at you, tetanus), but the body aches that linger are not something I'm familiar with. Although, now that I think about it, that's what children have many times, so I guess it's like that, since our bodies are not used to this particular illness, just like as kids we're not used to that particular illness either. We don't have years of building up an immune response like we do with the flu shot, since this virus is new. 🤷🏻♀️ Idk, just spit-balling. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Third shot was easy. Like the first in my case. Tender arm. That's it. Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Bootsie said: I have also heard that it may be the termperature that the vaccine is at the time of injection. 48 minutes ago, KSera said: Yes to this. When we had one of our drive up doses given, we were talking to the guy giving it about the temperature requirements of the shots and how long they can stay out of the freezer, because it was a hot day. On a day like that, they were taking the shots directly out of the freezer and warming them up just in their hand between the freezer and the car before administering them. I could certainly see with shots coming out of the deep freezer, the temperature could make a real difference. Re temperature of the vaccine -- The RA medication I'm on has to be refrigerated, but is supposed to be removed from the refrigerator at least 30 minutes before injecting. Most patients recommend leaving it out at room temp for at least a few hours before injecting. It's an ouchie injection either way--the medication itself stings and burns--but the colder it is the worse it is. So I can definitely believe temperature could come into play with the Covid vaccines. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 I'm wondering now if I should get the booster in my opposite arm. Do muscles need time to recover from the "trauma" of a vaccine? You would think 8 months would be enough but I really don't know how it all works. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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