To Foreign Language or Not To Foreign Language

[BusyMom5]

Advice welcome!  So, kiddo is 11th grade,  has APD,  and we decided in 8th grade to not do a FL.  At that time, I knew it wasn't something she would be able to do.  She possibly could do ASL, but we don't have classes available,  I don't know it, and not sure how I would implement it, but it was always my fall-back plan.  We checked into local colleges, and several do not require a FL, instead they say "academic elective" which can be a computer class or another core class- so that's been our plan.  So now she's starting to look into degree programs.  Not having a FL does mark some off--- or does it?  We need to go visit, since its hard to know exactly where she will want to go, but I hate that we just wrote off several places!  Options as I see them:

1.  Apply anyway, say nothing, Covid has made admissions a mess anyway. 

2.  Apply, have her write a letter to attach addressing why there is no FL- either one, no good options available (our public school just has Rosetta Stone, online, no teacher) and would rather work on other skills (list skills) - or say she has APD and decided against a FL and instead learned  (fill in with other skills)   

3.  Start ASL, and get 2 credits in before she graduates. (Suggestions?)

4.  Keep those schools off the list, focus on the ones that don't require it.

* an actual language is not an option, she would really struggle and its not her thing.  ASL is the only one she would value and it looks to be accepted as a FL 

** She has used CTC Word Roots books 1, 2, and 3, if there was a way to cobble those together to make a credit?  I still have the books, I just put it in with English.   I could possibly do a very basic Latin course?  

Edited October 7, 2021 by BusyMom5

[MamaSprout]

DuoLingo Latin? It's a short course, she's already had some word roots, and it's kind of gamified?

What kind of career does she have in mind? Are you marking schools off the list that might require FL as a college subject, making them poor fit anyhow?

Either way, I would not try explain why it's not there.

Edited October 7, 2021 by MamaSprout

[Lori D.]

35 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Advice welcome!  So, kiddo is 11th grade,  has APD,  and we decided in 8th grade to not do a FL... We checked into local colleges, and several do not require a FL, instead they say "academic elective" which can be a computer class or another core class- so that's been our plan.  So now she's starting to look into degree programs.  Not having a FL does mark some off--- or does it?  We need to go visit, since its hard to know exactly where she will want to go...

First, what are her specific future job and college goals? Is a 4-year college degree realistically do-able with the APD? And would a Bachelor degree even be NEEDED for what she wants to do (if she has a strong, specific occupational interest)?  

I would *highly* recommend some career exploration right now to broaden her options. I'd look at the degree programs at the schools that do not require a foreign language, but I would also heavily look at non-4-year college occupations (which would require NO  Foreign Language) -- like 2-year AAS (Associate degree-to-work) programs in well-paying fields such as: Occupational Therapy Tech, Dental Hygienist, Radiology Tech, Nuclear Medicine Tech, Diagnostic Sonographer, etc. Two years, as opposed to four, usually at a school that costs far less than a 4-year university (so less debt, and still eligible for Pell Grants, depending on her FAFSA EFC#), and stepping straight into a job faster that pays a decent wage (all of those I just listed average $45,000/year+) and has benefits. All of which can lead to being able to work much quicker towards other possible goals such as marriage, children, home-owning...
 

42 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

...Options as I see them:
1.  Apply anyway, say nothing, Covid has made admissions a mess anyway. 
2.  Apply, have her write a letter to attach addressing why there is no FL...
3.  Start ASL, and get 2 credits in before she graduates. (Suggestions?)...

Of your options, I would personally vote for #4 first, as long as one of the schools that doesn't require a foreign language DOES offer the degree program she is interested in.

After that, sure, any of #1, #2, #3, whatever seems to fit best for the post-high school education option that will get her the education/training needed for the job she wants.

42 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

... 3.  Start ASL, and get 2 credits in before she graduates. (Suggestions?)...

DS#2 with mild LDs in LA -- no way a second language was going to fly for him. He ended up doing 2 semesters of ASL in 12th grade as DE (dual enrollment). Each semester of college credit counted as 1 year of high school credit, so 2 credits of foreign language in his last year of high school.

[As a side note: you can see from my signature, DS#2 has gone the non-4-year-degree AND non-2-year degree route and is doing well making his way in a field of high interest to him. So, a degree, and esp. a 4-year degree, is not always necessary for every student.]

I have heard good things about Life Print (free online), and I'd suggest getting a tutor. Or do an online class to have actual human interaction, instruction, and communication. There are some VERY different grammatical elements to ASL that would be tough to navigate trying to self-teach.

Even better if you can do 2 semesters of college-level DE courses, because that would also knock out any potential future 4-year degree foreign language requirement as part of gen. ed. requirements.  

35 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

... ** She has used CTC Word Roots books 1, 2, and 3, if there was a way to cobble those together to make a credit?  I still have the books, I just put it in with English.   I could possibly do a very basic Latin course? ...

Nope. Sorry, that does not fly as a Latin course, IMO.
 

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

If going down the path of option 2), I would lean towards writing about why the alternative option was chosen (whatever that may be), rather than emphasising why foreign languages were not. Admissions people like to see why things were done more than why things were not done. Bonus: you can talk about why the alternative was chosen even in foreign-language-optional school applications (making it compatible with 4)).

Edited October 8, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia

[Junie]

We have done ASL in our homeschool using Bill Vicars' lessons on youtube.  He is a deaf ASL professor who has 4 semesters of classes free online.  It is an excellent course and he is a phenomenal teacher.  I'm currently working through his courses with my fourth child. :)  

There are videos on youtube and quizzes on his personal website.  The quizzes are multiple choice, about 25 questions per quiz.  

Most of the videos are divided into four sections (A, B, C, D) and are about 45 minutes total.  We do them Monday through Thursday (one section per day), and then dd15 takes the quiz on Friday.  Each semester is about 15 weeks and I count each semester as 1 high school credit.

If you don't know any ASL, practice the alphabet until you know it well.  

Here is the ASL 1 Playlist.

And the ASL 2 Playlist.

And here are the quizzes.

[Treewriter]

Here's my advice if you do want to try for ASL:

I would second the recommendations for Bill Vicars courses if you want self paced videos. It's also the only free resource I found truly valuable. 

If you wanted Duolingo style lessons, Lingvano is a cool ASL program modeled after that: https://www.lingvano.com/asl/. However, I would only recommend it if you are starting from scratch. It falls for all the pitfalls of Duolingo, unfortunately, but it is good at keeping interest and making sure you can understand signing well. 

Another subscription based ASL service with videos and exercises is https://www.asldeafined.com/, and you can choose the skills you want to work on there, but I would recommend Bill Vicar's videos over this in most cases

If you want 1 on 1 online lessons,  I'd be happy to  recommend some italki teachers if you message me.

[alisoncooks]

We’re in a state that requires foreign language so that has influenced my choices. My kiddo with language LDs has really enjoyed Bill Vicars (above). We tried Spanish for a couple years (duolingo as one of our resources) and it didn’t stick. At all, lol. She says that she’s learning so much better with ASL university. 

[mstah0710]

I honestly do not know of any program that lists a FL as an entrance requirement. Just look at a bunch of different universities/colleges etc... for programs she's interested in and see what they require. But I really don't think she'll need it. 

[Lilaclady]

Some colleges like those under the university system of Georgia will accept computer language courses as foreign Lang class. 

[Plagefille]

10 hours ago, mstah0710 said:

I honestly do not know of any program that lists a FL as an entrance requirement. Just look at a bunch of different universities/colleges etc... for programs she's interested in and see what they require. But I really don't think she'll need it. 

Yeah, in my state there are multiple colleges that don't care and don't want to even see a homeschool transcript. So not having a foreign language would not make difference.

[BusyMom5]

Thank you,I'm going to check out the ASL course and see if she thinks it would work. 

2 years ago I was sure college would never work, but she's had aural rehabilitation therapy,  and she would qualify for an FM system.  That said, with digital classes and lectures recorded for larger classes,  I think she will be able to go if she wants to!   Once she gets to hands-on courses, I think it will go much better.  

We have both been looking at other options, and she seems to be picking things that require a 4 year degree.  I thought a tech school would be a better fit,but so far she hasn't liked any program.   We need to start visiting soon.

A few years ago I felt like writing the 4 years that require FL off the list was the right choice, but now one of those may have the strongest program for her interests- ugh!  

I also came up with another fall back plan- CC, then transfer.   If she does this, no one cares about HS transcript or ACT score, etc.  It could possibly put her behind a semester or something?  But its a good plan!  

 

[Rosie_0801]

17 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

2 years ago I was sure college would never work,

Why not? Because of hearing issues?

[BusyMom5]

36 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Why not? Because of hearing issues?

Yes, before diagnosis or treatment.   Shes come Soooooo far, its like a different kid.

[Rosie_0801]

18 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Yes, before diagnosis or treatment.   Shes come Soooooo far, its like a different kid.

If it's any help, I've known profoundly Deaf people with PhDs in Auslan, lingustics and zoology, and a Deaf lawyer.

[Farrar]

Just putting in another vote for starting ASL.

We have a wonderful tutor on iTalki that I'm happy to share the name of on pm if anyone wants it.

Many universities list 2 years of FL on their recommended or required coursework. You have to remember that it's also about who a student is up against when they apply. If most of the candidates at a school will have 2+ years of FL, then not having it is a drawback, even if it's not a requirement or not a hard requirement.

Just to add though... students do get waivers for FL. And a student with a good story - and it sounds like she has one - and with an increasing level of work - are good applicants from a college perspective. So she has that working for her.

[Lori D.]

14 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

... I also came up with another fall back plan- CC, then transfer.   If she does this, no one cares about HS transcript or ACT score, etc.  It could possibly put her behind a semester or something?  But its a good plan!  

Yes, good plan! 😄 That option of 2 years at CC + 2 years at university worked extremely here.

But the real key is having a CC that is solid in quality and instruction, AND has an articulation agreement with the university that the student wants to transfer to, so that the credits apply towards the degree program. Then DD just has to make sure that she takes the classes on that transfer list. 😉

You might even have her "dip a toe in the water" in 12th grade -- or even in the spring of 11th grade, if she feels up for trying it. That gives her advance time to learn how to navigate the website for doing everything from registering for classes, to finding the syllabus, to turning in work and participating in required discussion. Also, she can check out the free on-campus tutoring service, and can get any special services figured out in advance. And, if she finds she's struggling, she can always withdraw (before the deadline) and just have a "W" on the transcript, which is really no big deal --not like a D or F, which drag down the permanent college transcript GPA.

And of course, if she does DE with courses that would transfer for a 4-year degree, that would actually put her ahead of schedule, so she would have the time to have options -- like, work part time and take a lighter load while at the CC (if she knocked out 2-3 classes in advance through DE). Or, take a heavier load at the CC and transfer mid-year to the university. Or, take a gap semester and do an internship or volunteer in her field of interest.

One downside of the CC to university route is the potential loss of freshman scholarships at the university. The most scholarships, and the highest amount of awards, are given to in-coming freshmen at the university. And those are usually renewal scholarships (as long as the student keeps up the required GPA and # of credits, the student earns the scholarship for all 4 years). There are some transfer scholarships, but they are usually 1-time awards, and for smaller amounts -- usually between $1000-$2500. If the student is likely to land a big scholarship at the university, that would make it much less attractive to do the CC first and lose out on that scholarship. On the other hand, if the student is not likely to land much (if any) scholarship money, then the CC is likely to have more advantages. So you do have to calculate all of the financials as part of your decision-making process.

Another possible downside is coming in halfway through the degree program, and being the "new kid" to the campus and in the program classes. DS#1 is quite introverted, and, while I thought that might make it hard for him, it was no issue at all for him. He transferred in as a junior, and was older/more mature than this freshman dorm mates, and he had no problems navigating campus or figuring out things or making friends.

One last thought: I'd also go ahead and have her take the ACT or SAT to have a score in her back pocket. DS#1 landed a modest scholarship his first year at the CC due to having a decent, but not high, test score.

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.