Kristen Lowery looks just like my ex-best friend

[rainbird2]

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-coronavirus-vaccine-antivax-mother-death-20210923-joivkjffgfbq5gqxi7d7cyaxne-story.html

I'm having a hard time with this woman's death because she looks just like my ex-best friend, right down to the "Unmasked, Unvaxxed, Unafraid...Together We Win" border on her Facebook page.  We went our separate ways because of clear ideological differences exposed by our different responses to Covid.  I miss my friend.  I cried this morning thinking about her.  There's no communication between us right now, and there really isn't anything I can do about it.

I keep telling myself that most people will be fine, that the chances of my old friend surviving Covid are good.  But what if she isn't one of the lucky ones?  What if she ends up like Kristen Lowery?  This woman left behind four children, all homeschooled.  My friend would leave behind her homeschooled kids, too. 

I just want to shake her and say stop this nonsense, but I know she won't listen.  She's one of the people saying, "Kristen Lowery died fighting for her freedom of choice."  I am truly baffled.

Can someone help me make peace with God's will?  I feel like my friend already died since we are no longer speaking, but she hasn't.  When I see this Kristen woman's picture or see an article about her, I just think to myself, that's my ex-BF...or possibly could be.  How do I make peace?  Is anyone else experiencing this right now? 

This hurts.

 

 

 

[freesia]

I’m sorry rainbird. That is very hard. 
 

I haven’t lost friends over COVID mostly bc I’m playing don’t check Facebook you’d rather not know. I mean I know  a friend who isn’t vaccinating but she hasn’t done any vaccines and I decided not to look at her Facebook bc I didn’t want to know if she is obnoxious online or spreading lies. But she’s also not my BFF

I did,however, lose a BF over the actions of her son toward my children—bullying, manipulation, etc ( I really don’t want to go into everything online—I believe he’s a narcissist.). There was no way to go on with the friendship. I still miss our friendship five years later. It hurt for a long time. 
I made peace by writing a letter I never sent. I prayed about it. I grieved as with a death. Eventually we could talk like acquaintances—my younger ds and her younger ds did become friends and participated in a couple of activities together which was challenging but I did it.

Anyway, I’m not sure any of this is helpful—but you are not alone. 

[Katy]

This isn’t about God’s will.  This is about free will and pride. Some of the people I know who were like this had a close brush and wished they’d bern vaccinated.  Others are still pretending a vaccine is the mark of the beast.  I’m so sorry you’re going through this. 

[KSera]

I'm so sorry, that must be so difficult. These stories are so, so tragic. What got me in this one is the statement that she "always, ALWAYS put her children first" but clearly in this case these wacky beliefs somehow became more important to her than her children, and she died for them. I'm sure she didn't intend it to become way, but the brainwashing on this subject seems insidious, and in the end, that's the way she chose 😢. I don't know if people ever think it through to that point--that to choose to take a stand by not getting vaccinated against Covid is to decide you are willing to die for that belief.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that God usually allows the laws of nature to function without interruption. It’s only when He intervenes that it’s called a miracle. So I think that God allows contagious viruses to act like contagious viruses. And part of that indeed means that the majority of those people who get this particular virus are fine. But some get very ill and some die. I do believe that those who are saved at the time of death do go to heaven. And God certainly allowed it. But did He allow it as a consequence of their actions?  I think that is a strong possibility. It’s part of “do not put God to the test” in my opinion. 

[WildflowerMom]

Why not send her a card and tell her you're thinking of her?  
 

I don't know who this woman is, so I don't have much of an opinion on her specifically.    I don't understand why people have to brag about not being vaxxed as if that somehow proves they're more faithful than the rest of us or something?    And then these people get super sick and I wonder if they're having regrets.    Idk.  I just think back to the generations before us who were so grateful to get vaccines and it's a must for me, ykwim?  

[whitestavern]

I can't imagine losing a friend over differences such as this 😞 I have many friends that don't align with my political view, parenting style, religion, interests, etc. but they are all near and dear to me. Unless they were doing something illegal or truly reprehensible, I can't understand why you chose to end the friendship. If you miss her, reach out!

[Carol in Cal.]

I favor vaxing but I wouldn’t break a friendship over it.  

Maybe you feel the same way deep down, and want to regain this relationship?  If so, would you feel comfortable reaching out and suggesting a reset, with the agreement not to discuss the issue of contention?  It sounds like that’s really your inclination.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, whitestavern said:

I can't understand why you chose to end the friendship.

I didn’t see anything that indicated it was OP’s choice to end the friendship. Perhaps it was, but I don’t see anything that made me assume that. She said “there isn’t anything I can do about that” which suggested to me this wasn’t all her choice. 

[rainbird2]

I didn't end our friendship.  We were still chatting via text and phone, but I was avoiding getting together with her.  I just told her that I was busy with stuff, and let's get together at another time.  I felt like I couldn't tell her why because I knew she would be mad. 

We were doing a very nice job avoiding any conversations about Covid and the vaccine for a while.  We talked about anything but the vaccine. Then she sent me a story about how the Covid deaths are actually flu and totally inflated.  I responded with how that is not true, and that I am really worried about her getting the virus because she is high risk.  I pleaded with her to get a shot so we could have many more years together.  She responded with more conspiracy talk, and how she knows I'm avoiding meeting with her in person.  I told her why I was avoiding getting together with her.  I told her that I wanted to wait to get together until after Delta numbers drop or the kids can get vaccinated.  I am concerned about my little ones (under 12) who have asthma getting the virus. She also knows that my older kids have extracurricular activities that require them to be vaccinated, and that we attend vaccinated only events in the city.  I think she is offended that I am out and about but only with the vaccinated.  When I finally told her why, she said to me, "Let's resume our friendship again when Covid ends."  (Her way of saying she doesn't want to talk with me again.) Should I feel guilty about attending vaccinated only events?  I did not ever, ever bring up these events in our phone calls or texts until we had our text blow up.  Now we aren't speaking at all.

I feel like I need to accept this and grieve the loss of a friend.  Not sure what else to do...

[Starr]

I have a friendship that has taken a covid break. It's disappointing but there isn't a way to make it work. Our politics have always been different without any problems but now our being vaccinated is a problem to them.

[rainbird2]

3 minutes ago, Starr said:

I have a friendship that has taken a covid break. It's disappointing but there isn't a way to make it work. Our politics have always been different without any problems but now our being vaccinated is a problem to them.

I'm sorry Starr.  I hate to hear that anyone else is going through this.  I just don't know how our friendship will continue after a covid break.  It's like we are in two different worlds now...I didn't want it to come to this. 

[Starr]

I'm sorry for you and everyone going through this. It is so sad but like you said there isn't anything that can be done about it. Our friends have burned bridges with other mutual friends as well.

[Tanaqui]

You can't rush grief. That's what you're feeling, and that's what you're trying to do. Everybody would like to have a way to get past grief fast fast fast - but it doesn't work. You have to let it take as long as it takes* and just go through the entire process of grieving.

It sucks. It really does. It sucks that you lost a friend, and it sucks that this loss might be permanent, and it sucks that you can't change her mind, and it sucks that when you lost her she had ceased to be the person you once thought you knew. Everything about this is just so awful.

And it's okay that you're angry about that, and sad about that, and not willing to accept that! You have a right to be angry at the con artists and the conspiracy theorists that preyed on your friend and so many other people! You have a right to be sad at this utterly unnecessary lost, and scared for her even if she's not scared for herself! It's okay to feel those things - and trying to move past feeling these things is not going to help. You have to feel bad, and accept that your bad feelings are valid in order to be able to move forward.

* If it takes a *very* long time, or is seriously affecting your ability to live your life, then you may need help from a professional licensed therapist. You will have to be the judge of this for yourself.

[Lawyer&Mom]

4 hours ago, whitestavern said:

I can't imagine losing a friend over differences such as this 😞 I have many friends that don't align with my political view, parenting style, religion, interests, etc. but they are all near and dear to me. Unless they were doing something illegal or truly reprehensible, I can't understand why you chose to end the friendship. If you miss her, reach out!

I broke a friendship over vaccination.  Pre-COVID.  Close friends brought their kids over to meet my newborn without disclosing that they don’t vaccinate their kids.  I found out later when all their kids got chickenpox.  My grandpa lost two older brothers to polio.  Failure to vaccinate is a deal-breaker for me.  They took the benefits from my kids being vaccinated without taking their portion of the risks.  Nope.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to take my position, just letting you know that some people would break friendships over this issue.

 

[City Mouse]

I don’t know about God’s will, but living with the aftermath of a friend’s decisions is hard. Your fear for her is valid. I can’t givea y details yet, but my DH lost a friend to covid this weekend. The man was not a vocal anti-vaccination, but he wasn’t vaccinated and thought he had Covid back at the very beginning. The pain other people are feeling as a result of that person’s choices are huge.

[rainbird2]

23 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

You can't rush grief. That's what you're feeling, and that's what you're trying to do. Everybody would like to have a way to get past grief fast fast fast - but it doesn't work. You have to let it take as long as it takes* and just go through the entire process of grieving.

It sucks. It really does. It sucks that you lost a friend, and it sucks that this loss might be permanent, and it sucks that you can't change her mind, and it sucks that when you lost her she had ceased to be the person you once thought you knew. Everything about this is just so awful.

And it's okay that you're angry about that, and sad about that, and not willing to accept that! You have a right to be angry at the con artists and the conspiracy theorists that preyed on your friend and so many other people! You have a right to be sad at this utterly unnecessary lost, and scared for her even if she's not scared for herself! It's okay to feel those things - and trying to move past feeling these things is not going to help. You have to feel bad, and accept that your bad feelings are valid in order to be able to move forward.

* If it takes a *very* long time, or is seriously affecting your ability to live your life, then you may need help from a professional licensed therapist. You will have to be the judge of this for yourself.

 

Thank you for this.  I needed to hear it.  I reached out to a counselor because this has been so hard on me.  Thanks again.

[rainbird2]

13 hours ago, City Mouse said:

I don’t know about God’s will, but living with the aftermath of a friend’s decisions is hard. Your fear for her is valid. I can’t givea y details yet, but my DH lost a friend to covid this weekend. The man was not a vocal anti-vaccination, but he wasn’t vaccinated and thought he had Covid back at the very beginning. The pain other people are feeling as a result of that person’s choices are huge.

City Mouse,  I'm so sorry to hear this.  Can you tell me, how is your DH handling it?  I just don't want to be in this situation...I don't want anyone to be in this situation. 

[City Mouse]

9 hours ago, rainbird2 said:

City Mouse,  I'm so sorry to hear this.  Can you tell me, how is your DH handling it?  I just don't want to be in this situation...I don't want anyone to be in this situation. 

Right now, there is so much to do that I think he is avoiding dealing with it. We talk about it a little, and I know the a couple of friends that he talks to. But this did help me make the decision to go get the booster shot yesterday.

[Not_a_Number]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:41 AM, City Mouse said:

I don’t know about God’s will, but living with the aftermath of a friend’s decisions is hard. Your fear for her is valid. I can’t givea y details yet, but my DH lost a friend to covid this weekend. The man was not a vocal anti-vaccination, but he wasn’t vaccinated and thought he had Covid back at the very beginning. The pain other people are feeling as a result of that person’s choices are huge.

That's really hard 😞 . I'm so sorry to hear that. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I'm really sorry about the loss of a friendship. It is really difficult and covid is tearing apart many people. My dad is super anti-vax (into all the conspiracy theories) and my bother is super pro-vax and it has destroyed their relationship. I often feel stuck in the middle.

Some choose not to vax and it isn't for conspiracy reasons or that we're anti-vax. DH got the vaccine but specifically asked me to please not get it. I have auto immune issues (there's a warning label for the vax and that) but I also have a severe bovine protein allergy (another warning label for the vax). So two of the warning labels for getting the vaccine apply to me. DD also has both of these and chose last year to get the vaccine because she was on a college campus and she reacted terribly to the vaccine and had to be held at the hospital for observation for quite a while. It took her months to get even close to better and we still aren't quite sure the long term costs for her. I know I will receive criticism, but I just want to be a voice to say that maybe it isn't safe for everyone?  Maybe I choose not to get it and it isn't because I think it is a bad idea for everyone. I feel like it needs to be a personal choice for those who would react terribly or have long term problems such as dd and me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I'm really sorry about the loss of a friendship. It is really difficult and covid is tearing apart many people. My dad is super anti-vax (into all the conspiracy theories) and my bother is super pro-vax and it has destroyed their relationship. I often feel stuck in the middle.

Some choose not to vax and it isn't for conspiracy reasons or that we're anti-vax. DH got the vaccine but specifically asked me to please not get it. I have auto immune issues (there's a warning label for the vax and that) but I also have a severe bovine protein allergy (another warning label for the vax). So two of the warning labels for getting the vaccine apply to me. DD also has both of these and chose last year to get the vaccine because she was on a college campus and she reacted terribly to the vaccine and had to be held at the hospital for observation for quite a while. It took her months to get even close to better and we still aren't quite sure the long term costs for her. I know I will receive criticism, but I just want to be a voice to say that maybe it isn't safe for everyone?  Maybe I choose not to get it and it isn't because I think it is a bad idea for everyone. I feel like it needs to be a personal choice for those who would react terribly or have long term problems such as dd and me.

As far as I know- everyone has been sympathetic towards people who can’t get the vaccine for medical reasons. People with medical reasons are part of the reason we want everyone else to get vaccinated!  

[Ann.without.an.e]

nvm I have sincere questions but don't want to hi-jack this thread 😅

Edited September 29, 2021 by Ann.without.an.e

[KSera]

20 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

And I'm thankful for that, sincerely. I guess my honest question is this -  if it becomes "required" and we don't have personal choice, who gets to approve that it is medically unwise for me?  I truly believe it is unwise for me and so does DH. But who gets to make that decision on my behalf and what hoops would I have to go through to prove it?  Could I be in a position of truly feeling it is medically unwise but not meeting such a narrow window of requirement (whatever that may be?) that I'm forced to anyway. I mean these question sincerely and not snarky. These are honest questions that roll around in my brain.

These are the hard cases. Fortunately, they are rare, but you’re right there needs to be a way to handle them. The vast majority of people who are hesitant don’t actually have anything that would contraindicate the shot for them. (as an aside, which shot has the bovine warning? When I have looked at the medical exemptions for the mRNA vaccines, there are only a couple contraindications, and PEG is the only allergen warning I’ve seen.)

I think the hope is that people will discuss and make these decisions with their doctors. A lot of unvaccinated people who have succumbed to the disease decided the shot was dangerous based on things like Facebook posts and YouTube videos. Had they checked with their doctors, they could’ve gotten accurate information could’ve been vaccinated and still alive.

for people who the shot is contraindicated for, I don’t think there’s any suggestion that they be forced to get it. They would receive a medical exemption. During the active part of a pandemic, a medical exemption could have certain situations which did mean the unvaccinated exempt person would need to be temporarily excluded. As is the case of kids not vaccinated for measles when there is a measles outbreak, as one example. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by KSera
Typo

[Jean in Newcastle]

In my state, even vaccine mandates (which only apply to certain jobs) have always provided for an actual medical exemption.  The problem comes when people who really aren't medically exempt try to get a medical exemption.  Ethical doctors will say "no".  This doesn't mean that they are bad doctors.  On the contrary, they are good doctors who only apply the medical exempt criteria to very specific situations. 

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ethical doctors will say "no".

Right. Can you imagine the ethical and professional repercussions if a doctor gives someone a medical exemption that they shouldn’t have had, and then that person contracts and dies from the vaccine preventable disease?