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Prayer for my Grandma: Update 2


sangtarah
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Update 10/12: Hospital is sending grandma home tomorrow. Her rehab facility stay was a nightmare, and she refused to go from the hospital to another one, which is standard protocol. So they are kicking her out, and she has to come home. She is still being treated for C-diff. She also has a unknown urinary problem and will have a catheter. So we will try to have a home health nurse. It’ll be stressful and chaotic. 
 

Update 10/9: grandma is back in the hospital, transferred from the rehab facility. She got C-diff from the rehab facility. My mom got her transferred back to the hospital yesterday. They told mom & dad the diagnosis today. She is in bad shape and we could use more prayer!

Could mom have picked up C-diff from grandma yesterday, while she was sitting with her in the hospital? Should we all be concerned?!? How do we navigate this? We are basically one big extended family unit now. 
 

 

 

A dog ran into her knee on Sun and gave her a ‘barely there’ hairline fracture. She’s in her 90s. She couldn’t walk, so the hospital kept her for 2 days and transferred her to a rehab. Mom isn’t allowed inside except by appointment. Very little information is coming from rehab. Appointments are 30 minutes. Grandma called Mom in the middle of last night, saying she couldn’t breathe. Nurses called mom 2 hours later and said she has fluid on her lungs. Grandma has congestive heart failure, diagnosed earlier this year. Mom hasn’t heard from any doctors. Grandma is very scared and wants to come home. But she can’t move by herself, so there isn’t a way to safely have her at the house. 
I’m scared I’m going to lose her and we are moving there next week. Please pray that she turns around and gets cared for well, and can come home soon. My kids are scared and upset too. 

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Thank you all! Mom was able to see her today, and said besides the pneumonia and gout, grandma is looking better. Not as scared anymore, but still wants to get out of there. They had her up and she walked a couple steps today. 
Please keep thinking of her! 
Because of visiting restrictions, mom won’t be able to see her again until Tuesday. 🙁

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  • sangtarah changed the title to Prayer for my Grandma: Update

Update 10/9: grandma is back in the hospital, transferred from the rehab facility. She got C-diff from the rehab facility. My mom got her transferred back to the hospital yesterday. They told mom & dad the diagnosis today. She is in bad shape and we could use more prayer!

Could mom have picked up C-diff from grandma yesterday, while she was sitting with her in the hospital? Should we all be concerned?!? How do we navigate this? We are basically one big extended family unit now. 

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7 minutes ago, sangtarah said:

Update 10/9: grandma is back in the hospital, transferred from the rehab facility. She got C-diff from the rehab facility. My mom got her transferred back to the hospital yesterday. They told mom & dad the diagnosis today. She is in bad shape and we could use more prayer!

Could mom have picked up C-diff from grandma yesterday, while she was sitting with her in the hospital? Should we all be concerned?!? How do we navigate this? We are basically one big extended family unit now. 

Did she help clean grandma up when she used the potty.   Otherwise, it's very unlikely.    
I'm so sorry.  Many prayers...   

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5 minutes ago, sangtarah said:

Update 10/9: grandma is back in the hospital, transferred from the rehab facility. She got C-diff from the rehab facility. My mom got her transferred back to the hospital yesterday. They told mom & dad the diagnosis today. She is in bad shape and we could use more prayer!

Could mom have picked up C-diff from grandma yesterday, while she was sitting with her in the hospital? Should we all be concerned?!? How do we navigate this? We are basically one big extended family unit now. 

Did your mother use the same restroom as your grandma?  Touch contaminated surfaces and then eat without adequately washed hands?  If not, she probably is fine. 
 

Grandma probably got it from being on antibiotics that killed off her good gut flora. 

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7 hours ago, sangtarah said:

Update 10/9: grandma is back in the hospital, transferred from the rehab facility. She got C-diff from the rehab facility. My mom got her transferred back to the hospital yesterday. They told mom & dad the diagnosis today. She is in bad shape and we could use more prayer!

Could mom have picked up C-diff from grandma yesterday, while she was sitting with her in the hospital? Should we all be concerned?!? How do we navigate this? We are basically one big extended family unit now. 

I'm so sorry she has C Diff. Unless your mom has a weak immune system or is on antibiotics herself right now, chances are low she would have picked it up. Especially if she has good hand hygiene. It will definitely be in her bathroom. The bathroom must be cleaned with bleach based cleaner, not just some kind of "disinfectant". And everyone's hands need to be washed with soap and water. Hand sanitizer does not kill C Diff. That's one of the reasons it spreads so much in health care environments--HCW sometimes only use sanitizer between rooms, which they shouldn't do (PSA for anyone with a loved one in hospital: insist on handwashing by staff and bring bleach wipes to wipe down bed rails and other high touch surfaces).

7 hours ago, sangtarah said:

Would Florastor help her? Should I send some to the hospital, or would they provide that?

Florastor for sure. They may or may not provide it, but the hospital is unlikely to allow you to give it to her unless they okay it. I would insist on it being added, though, in high doses (my doctor had me on 6 a day). Everyone else at home can take it to help keep their gut healthy and resistant to it.

I hope your grandma will make a quick turn around from it! I think there's a new medication for it that works better than vancomycin, but I haven't stayed up on it enough to remember what it's called. Flagyl doesn't tend to work very well. Fecal transplant is the gold standard (and is not a big deal to have done), but most places require failing a bunch of other stuff before they will do that

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1 hour ago, sangtarah said:

Update 10/9: grandma is back in the hospital, transferred from the rehab facility. She got C-diff from the rehab facility. My mom got her transferred back to the hospital yesterday. They told mom & dad the diagnosis today. She is in bad shape and we could use more prayer!

Could mom have picked up C-diff from grandma yesterday, while she was sitting with her in the hospital? Should we all be concerned?!? How do we navigate this? We are basically one big extended family unit now. 

Definitely insist on the Florastor--it has been proven to help with C Diff. Daily, multiple pills for as long as she takes antibiotics and a minimum of 1-3 months after as well. The research is easy to find on the internet. When I was sick (ICU, sepsis, the works), a friend who is a "normal" doctor recommended it.

I would also recommend another probiotic as well simply because the drugs they give to kill c diff are brutal. Do not take Florastor at the same time--take it at a different time than the other probiotic.

If they try to kill it off with Flagyll (metronidazole), INSIST on adding in either Vancomycin or Fidaxomycin. Flagyll is rarely effective over the long term; I think they should just stop bothering with it first (waste of time) and go immediately to the other two, or use Flagyll in combination with one of the other two. When I was sick, I took both Flagyll and Vancomycin while in the hospital. They switched me to Flagyll only and my condition promptly worsened, so then we switched to Vancomycin. This pattern is documented and easy to find on the internet--Flagyll is often given first because it's the cheapest by far, but it rarely truly kills it off and the patient continues to suffer resurgences of the infection. Vancomycin and Fidaxomycin are expensive, but Vancomycin is cheaper if a compounding pharmacy gives a liquid form, but the liquid is brutal on tooth enamel. When I took it, I used a syringe to shoot it directly at the back of my mouth/throat, and I swallowed/rinsed immediately with water.

Also they should prescribe in a pulsed regimen. That means taking it daily for several weeks, and then weaning down to every other day, then every two days, and so on. The reason is that c diff is good at hiding and protecting itself--the breaks in the regimen are to allow for the c diff spores to "emerge" when it thinks the coast is clear. (Obviously that's a highly simplified layman's explanation--it's easy to find a more scientific summary online.) I took Vancomycin for a solid six months in this fashion.

Also it's essential that your grandmother continue eating, even if just jello and broth and rice. The digestive system must continue working or the likelihood of parts dying off is much higher. That would mean intestinal resectioning or possibly an ostomy bag. I don't say this to scare you, but just to help you know how best to help her avoid those outcomes.

I hope this helps--feel free to ask more specific questions--I hope my experience can help.

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Also regarding your mom:

C diff is very contagious, but she is unlikely to catch it if she practiced good handwashing. If she used grandma's bathroom, that's more of a concern but she could still avoid it. If she's worried, she can take Florastor for prevention.

Along those lines, when Grandma comes home she will almost certainly still carry c diff spores for a while. That means cleaning the bathroom with bleach and washing hands properly and using gloves to help her with hygiene.

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The hospital may or may not allow the Florastor. You will need to ask first. She will likely be given oral Vancomycin to treat the C-diff. and yes, it is very contagious. Thorough handwashing is a must and clorox wipes are good to have on hand to clean the bathroom. 

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  • sangtarah changed the title to Prayer for my Grandma: Update 2

Update 10/12: Hospital is sending grandma home tomorrow. Her rehab facility stay was a nightmare, and she refused to go from the hospital to another one, which is standard protocol. So they are kicking her out, and she has to come home. She is still being treated for C-diff. She also has a unknown urinary problem and will have a catheter. So we will try to have a home health nurse. It’ll be stressful and chaotic. 

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Oh, I'm so sorry.  That is definitely stressful and chaotic.  😞  

We had something similar happen in July with MIL.  It was absolutely awful until things got settled.  It all worked out in the end, but it was a horrible stressful process.  

 

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Oh gosh, I'm so sorry! How stressful! Is she on the florastor? At least at home, you can make sure she gets that, plus another good colonizing probiotic. Why they don't jump to fecal transplants quicker in frail people with C Diff is beyond me. They work so well, and elderly people get so much sicker so much faster that it seems worth it to give them the gold standard without making them fail multiple other trials first.

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34 minutes ago, KSera said:

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry! How stressful! Is she on the florastor? At least at home, you can make sure she gets that, plus another good colonizing probiotic. Why they don't jump to fecal transplants quicker in frail people with C Diff is beyond me. They work so well, and elderly people get so much sicker so much faster that it seems worth it to give them the gold standard without making them fail multiple other trials first.

Yes, ITA.

I will add that it is essential that there be constant vigilance on sanitation while in treatment. Gloves, daily wipe down of the bathroom, etc. That goes quadruple if there is incontinence--all affected wipes or tissue or pads must be in a dedicated, closed pail and taken out promptly. Don't leave that stuff in the house both because of the spores but also because it smells hideous. 

And Florastor. While in active treatment, do at least four pills per day. Alternate at other times with a good probiotic such as Align. It's also a good idea to incorporate yogurt and sauerkraut. It really makes such a difference. ALSO bone broth and collagen supplementation.

Many have real digestive sensitivity after c diff--it might be a good idea to avoid gluten and dairy for a while. Stick with easy-to-digest food.

When I was in recovery, I craved egg drop soup. Dh made bone broth from scratch, which we kept on hand. We added green onion, a splash of soy, and then twirled in the beaten egg. Easy to leave out the soy if preferred. 

We also kept on hand jello made from Knorr unflavored gelatin and juice. Soooo much better than jello boxes.

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44 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

Yes, ITA.

I will add that it is essential that there be constant vigilance on sanitation while in treatment. Gloves, daily wipe down of the bathroom, etc. That goes quadruple if there is incontinence--all affected wipes or tissue or pads must be in a dedicated, closed pail and taken out promptly. Don't leave that stuff in the house both because of the spores but also because it smells hideous. 

 

This is what I was going to mention. 

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