Anyone else — math disappointments

[EmilyGF]

DS16 has *finally* made friends this year. He met a fellow birder in PE and found some kids who like board games in CS. He gets to debate topics like "what influences your political views the most?" in AP Gov. He's doing cross-country and has been incredibly challenged. His Spanish class is immersion-style with a teacher from Spain.

There are plenty of things that drive me nuts. But it is worth it to list the things that don't!

[Roadrunner]

6 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

DS16 has *finally* made friends this year. He met a fellow birder in PE and found some kids who like board games in CS. He gets to debate topics like "what influences your political views the most?" in AP Gov. He's doing cross-country and has been incredibly challenged. His Spanish class is immersion-style with a teacher from Spain.

There are plenty of things that drive me nuts. But it is worth it to list the things that don't!

May I ask how much homework he does daily? Or what time is he done?

 

[EmilyGF]

8 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

May I ask how much homework he does daily? Or what time is he done?

 

He's really efficient. He doesn't do much homework per day this year (and when he was asked to write about what he learned to value in school for a recent project, he wrote, "Hard work, diligence, and efficiency.") Maybe 1-2 hours per night max, usually closer to 1? I don't think this is typical at his school, though; most kids complain about having loads of homework they do all the time.

He did have a hard time with the US History AP reading load last year. He says his classes are a lot easier this year (US Gov AP, English 3, Biology, Multi-Var Calc, AP Spanish, Comp Sci A AP, PE). His APs last year were Chem AP, US Hist AP, and BC Calc through AoPS.

[EmilyGF]

DS16 says that he likes biology now. Once the teacher finished the climate change unit (which he said was super simplistic and didn't really seem like biology), they've moved into actual biology. He says the teacher spends one 90-minute period on the subject followed by a 90-minute lab. He's really enjoying the labs, especially after spending his whole year in AP Chem watching labs from a laptop.

Emily

(Just for clarity: My son is a total climate change believer. He is obsessed with birds and data, and has looked at how bird migration patterns have changed over the last fifty years. He doesn't have any problem with climate change as a school unit, just was annoyed that a very simplistic form of it was being taught in lieu of biology.)

[Roadrunner]

Mine now officially hates everything but math. Go figure. 
He has figured out how to self study, so he mostly sits around solving problems there. He seems happy. 
despises everything else. 😞 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Roadrunner

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

Mine now officially hates everything but math. Go figure. 
He has figured out how to self study, so he mostly sits around solving problems there. He seems happy. 
despises everything else. 😞 

Well, that was me in high school, lol, and I turned out fine (if not particularly educated in history 😛) 

[EKS]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:52 AM, EKS said:

Apparently the math department was going to have a meeting about it here.  My 17yo informant thought it was to decide whether to curve the grades, but I'm hoping they're going to try to catch the kids up as well.  Thankfully my informant seems to be doing better than the majority of the pack, but not as well as he would like.

Just an update on this.  They did not curve the grades, and as of this week I will be tutoring my informant.  He's really struggling.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, that was me in high school, lol, and I turned out fine (if not particularly educated in history 😛) 

But unlike you, he isn’t going to medal at an Olympiad 🤣🤣🤣

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

But unlike you, he isn’t going to medal at an Olympiad 🤣🤣🤣

It's not the only way to go in this world, lol. 

[Roadrunner]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's not the only way to go in this world, lol. 

I worry. 
He had goals before, now he just “is.” He was never really into math,  but calculus seems to be the saving grace here. It’s the only class which isn’t “boring” (his words), and where he seems to need to exercise his brain. And a non teaching teacher ended up being his style - he is left alone to just work through problems. 
I thought he would work for his teachers, but no. He only works for himself. I am out of options for this kid. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I worry. 
He had goals before, now he just “is.” He was never really into math,  but calculus seems to be the saving grace here. It’s the only class which isn’t “boring” (his words), and where he seems to need to exercise his brain. And a non teaching teacher ended up being his style - he is left alone to just work through problems. 
I thought he would work for his teachers, but no. He only works for himself. I am out of options for this kid. 

Well, I'm currently unschooling my kid who only works for herself. It has actually been.... surprisingly effective. She's willing to do things for herself that she didn't do for me. 

She does do MORE for teachers than she does for me. But she only does a truly excellent job when she cares about the topic. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Roadrunner]

22 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, I'm currently unschooling my kid who only works for herself. It has actually been.... surprisingly effective. She's willing to do things for herself that she didn't do for me. 

She does do MORE for teachers than she does for me. But she only does a truly excellent job when she cares about the topic. 

Yes, and we did that in middle school, but I don’t want to do that for high school. 

[Not_a_Number]

44 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Yes, and we did that in middle school, but I don’t want to do that for high school. 

I dunno, I was basically unschooled for high school, despite being physically in a school 😛 . You'd be amazed how much kids can manage to NOT learn things if they just put their minds to it... 

I don't know how long I'd be willing to unschool, exactly, and I don't know what I'd do for high school if that was how things were looking. Depends whether the kids was making serious progress in the areas of their choosing, I guess? 

[Roadrunner]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I dunno, I was basically unschooled for high school, despite being physically in a school 😛 . You'd be amazed how much kids can manage to NOT learn things if they just put their minds to it... 

I don't know how long I'd be willing to unschool, exactly, and I don't know what I'd do for high school if that was how things were looking. Depends whether the kids was making serious progress in the areas of their choosing, I guess? 

Well, if he unschools himself into bad grades, it’s going to cost him dearly. We can only at likely afford public U’s and CA universities aren’t kind to unschoolers. 

[EmilyGF]

18 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Mine now officially hates everything but math. Go figure. 
He has figured out how to self study, so he mostly sits around solving problems there. He seems happy. 
despises everything else. 😞 

DD15 was having a moment yesterday. She started crying at dinner about the kids she sits with in physics. She's frustrated at the lack of motivation in other students and how they stymie her when she tries to work (among other things). I reminded her that at home she had been working with a 9-yo brother causing all sorts of chaos. "Yeah," she said, "but I could slug him." (Said somewhat in jest. She never really did; just knowing she could kept him in line. He's incredibly strong, incredibly physical, and a green belt in Karate.)

I am working with DD15 on outside projects she can do. We're looking into history fair and an economics competition. 

According the the teachers at DD's school, the kids missed about 18 months of maturing with school closures, so the 9th graders are coming in with the maturity of 7th graders. I just keep telling DD15 that she just needs to make it through this year and then she can opt into AP classes. She is a total extrovert, though, and at least loves her math teacher, choir, math team, and lunch.

I was sort of like her in high school; more mature than other kids, top of my class, etc. And I made it through by doing an exchange year abroad. I don't think I could have handled four years of high school at my school.

Emily

[EmilyGF]

18 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Mine now officially hates everything but math. Go figure. 
He has figured out how to self study, so he mostly sits around solving problems there. He seems happy. 
despises everything else. 😞 

Are the classes terrible? Or is it him? 

I feel like half of having kids in school is teaching them to work the system. Oy.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, EmilyGF said:

Are the classes terrible? Or is it him? 

I feel like half of having kids in school is teaching them to work the system. Oy.

It’s both. Foreign language is too easy, English is stupid (he went from reading heavy duty things to stuff written on 4th grade level). Science is OK, but no challenge. Human Geo he despises. He says they have taken common sense things and created fancy definitions and turned it into a textbook. He finds kids immature and therefore any discussions in class equally immature. So apparently he just sleeps in class. Somebody other than him would say, cool, easy things, I can really impress with my work. Nope. He just sits quiet like a mute or sleeps. His math class has mostly seniors, so he likes couple of kids he is working with there. They are all much more mature. But then they aren’t going to want to be friends with a freshman. So here we go. He is just a very difficult child, and very unwilling to bend. I wish I could afford a private school, but we can’t. 

[mathnerd]

5 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Foreign language is too easy

I just suggested to a friend IRL who was complaining about PS FL being too easy (Spanish in this case) to ditch it and take another FL in order for their daughter to be more challenged in school. Is there some other language option offered in your son's school which is new to him and he could perhaps switch?

[EmilyGF]

17 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I just suggested to a friend IRL who was complaining about PS FL being too easy (Spanish in this case) to ditch it and take another FL in order for their daughter to be more challenged in school. Is there some other language option offered in your son's school which is new to him and he could perhaps switch?

DS16 had the option of Spanish 1-2-3-4-AP or going straight from 3 to AP. That was a good option for him and he is really enjoying Spanish AP this year. Most of the other kids grew up with parents speaking Spanish at home, but just never learned to speak themselves.

[Roadrunner]

20 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I just suggested to a friend IRL who was complaining about PS FL being too easy (Spanish in this case) to ditch it and take another FL in order for their daughter to be more challenged in school. Is there some other language option offered in your son's school which is new to him and he could perhaps switch?

I think this is a terrible strategy. First you will need to actually want to learn another language, which mine doesn’t. Even if he wanted to learn a second one, couple of years of instruction isn’t really going to take him far and in the process he will forget the language he actually wanted to learn in the first place. 
We like commitment in this family. 🙂 we picked a language and want to learn it well, not dab in a thousand things with no end result. 
Honestly FL is the last of my worries right now.

DS wanted to work in finance/economics. He got home yesterday having read an article in his English class about how all people in finance are money addicted selfish immoral people, so now he has no goals of any sort. I guess I am packing up all his Econ books in his room. 
I hate his PS. I am finally sold 100% sold on school choice. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I hate his PS. I am finally sold 100% sold on school choice. 

Of course, that often makes the PS even worse and gives you bad choices 😛.

[Roadrunner]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Of course, that often makes the PS even worse and gives you bad choices 😛.

 I have ptsd watching his English class. My communist upbringing is slowly emerging. I will go with like minded people. They can have their communist school. I am done. 
We will pull him out next year. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Roadrunner

[Not_a_Number]

22 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 I have ptsd watching his English class. My communist upbringing is slowly emerging. I will go with like minded people. They can have their communist school. I am done. 
We will pull him out next year. 

Hahaha, I mean, if the PS sucked, I'd definitely do something else. I wouldn't homeschool if I didn't feel that way. 

[Roadrunner]

13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hahaha, I mean, if the PS sucked, I'd definitely do something else. I wouldn't homeschool if I didn't feel that way. 

I tried. I am done. 😞 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

I tried. I am done. 😞 

Done homeschooling, you mean? Yeah, I don't mean I'd do that necessarily, but I'd quit and do a charter if need be. 

[Roadrunner]

20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Done homeschooling, you mean? Yeah, I don't mean I'd do that necessarily, but I'd quit and do a charter if need be. 

No, done with PS. I tried. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

No, done with PS. I tried. 

Ah. 

[Lecka]

Well my Junior is having a pretty good year but he might get straight Bs despite having a desire to get better grades than that.  His schedule is challenging for him — I don’t think that any one class is a challenge, but balancing them is definitely a challenge.

He has several good teachers and high-engagement classes this year, thank goodness.  That goes a long way for him!  
 

I am so beyond disappointed in my 7th grader’s math.  Um she is doing multiple choice with problems where she can work backwards from the answers!!!!!!!!!  It is madness!!!!!!  To me, at least.  I so hope there is more going on than what I am seeing.  
 

I have not seen her have retention with things she has only learned at school, for a while.  
 

I think they teach her how to do it and there are good things happening — but not in a way leading to retention for her.  
 

She is only in 7th grade, to have it seem like she is one of the have-nots.  My older son was a lot better at math than her at this age.  But I think she is totally capable.

 

Well — she will be doing math at home with me off and on, and definitely over the summer.  

[mathnerd]

7 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I think this is a terrible strategy. First you will need to actually want to learn another language, which mine doesn’t. Even if he wanted to learn a second one, couple of years of instruction isn’t really going to take him far and in the process he will forget the language he actually wanted to learn in the first place. 
We like commitment in this family. 🙂 we picked a language and want to learn it well, not dab in a thousand things with no end result. 
Honestly FL is the last of my worries right now.

DS wanted to work in finance/economics. He got home yesterday having read an article in his English class about how all people in finance are money addicted selfish immoral people, so now he has no goals of any sort. I guess I am packing up all his Econ books in his room. 
I hate his PS. I am finally sold 100% sold on school choice. 

Good luck for 10th grade homeschool!

[Lecka]

Well we are at about 95% sure my daughter is going to homeschool for the rest of 7th grade and 8th grade, then go to public school for 9th grade.

It is primarily for social reasons, but I think also very related to the pandemic.

Her school is keeping a lot of stuff on computers to make it easier to have kids quarantine, but it is just not working out for a lot of kids.  They are losing a lot of the more fun parts of school.  
 

She is not engaged in most of her classes — she does have two classes she really likes and that are going really well — but the other classes not so much, and then the social part is the real reason.

I currently feel like — a lot of kids are having problems right now and it is just not a good environment for her, and it has become negative for her and as it is getting worse, we can try to stop it now or stand back and cross our fingers.  Fortunately I am able to homeschool, and she does want to as well, and I think she will be very agreeable in most ways as well as able to work independently in some areas.  
 

It also looks like she is going to maintain ties with one friend who seems to be a positive influence.  I don’t want her to get isolated, but at this point that is not a reason to keep going to school.  But this seems like it could go well, which would go a long way.  
 

I also want to get her off of computers — she is currently, for some parts of the day, just getting through stuff and then messing around on the Internet, while she is at school.  It is just not a good thing for her and it contributes to her not being engaged.

 

From what I hear from my older son — this is possible to do in high school, and takes some maturity and choice of classes not to be this way.  With a balance between a class being engaging and choosing to be engaged. 
 

I think it will be good for her to get off the computer for now and get out of this habit.  
 

So honestly — it’s very pandemic related!  I think a lot of the peer-related problems are pandemic related for her peers.  I think there has been too much upheaval and lack of consistency and routine, and lack of supervision, and then way too much Internet.
 

I am planning to be strict about math, flute, and daily exercise, and then relaxed about everything else.  Plus limits on the Internet.  I want to do some field trips with her, too, that are related to interests she has but none of the rest of us are very interested in.  I think it would go a long way, and we would have time to do it and not have to deal with everyone else being bored or spending a day away from everybody else (which we generally don’t like to do!).   

[Roadrunner]

@Lecka you have a great plan! Hoping she has a better time at home for now at least. 
 

[Lecka]

She is doing much better, thanks.