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busymama7
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10 months post covid and I feel awful. I am three weeks post 2nd Pfizer shot so possibly still a reaction and maybe I will get better.  I was contacted by the local long haul clinic and my PCP sent in the referral today. So hopefully that is about to happen.  🤞 Although I'm not super confident that they will have all that much to offer to fix me.  

I think I just have to live with this.  And the longer it goes on the more depressed I get.  I am barely making it through the days with spending at least 8-10 daytime  hours horizontal and just barely doing tiny bits of things.  Every single thing feels like a mountain to climb.  Even sitting in bed to work on the laptop or knit or something is usually not possible because I just don't have enough energy for more than brief moments. 

And I just can't see the end of this.  I am lonely because I am surrounded by covid deniers.  I only have one friend (incidentally her husband works at the health district) who takes precautions anymore and everyone else is full on anti everything.  I don't have the energy to go to park days or hang out with anyone anyways but I'm still sad.  We do go to a weekly music program that has precautions but I have to avoid everyone because the conversation is so toxic(like they technically follow rules like masks but gripe about stupid covid stuff the whole time). Even though they know what I'm going through.  Possibly they just don't believe me but don't say that. I don't know. 

I am only 44.  My youngest is 7.  What in the world is my life going to look like from now on?

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I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.  I hope your clinic has some ideas and does some very thorough blood work, etc.  I have a friend that has found some relief both through a covid clinic through mayo and with some more holistic stuff in conjunction. 

I would encourage you to get help for your depression while you are working on the physical aspects too.   That can really tie into autoimmune symptoms and cause a spiral.  I think there is a lot we don't know about how these systems feed off each other and I just say that as someone who has had chronic health problems and depression/anxiety.  

Sending hugs!

Just in case you haven't seen this, mayo has a site set up to find clinics working specifically in post covid care ...
https://www.survivorcorps.com/pccc

Edited by FuzzyCatz
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27 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.  I hope your clinic has some ideas and does some very thorough blood work, etc.  I have a friend that has found some relief both through a covid clinic through mayo and with some more holistic stuff in conjunction. 

I would encourage you to get help for your depression while you are working on the physical aspects too.   That can really tie into autoimmune symptoms and cause a spiral.  I think there is a lot we don't know about how these systems feed off each other and I just say that as someone who has had chronic health problems and depression/anxiety.  

Sending hugs!

Just in case you haven't seen this, mayo has a site set up to find clinics working specifically in post covid care ...
https://www.survivorcorps.com/pccc

Thanks. I don't know that I *have* depression. I just feel sad and discouraged.  

That map has the one clinic for my city listed and I joined their FB group just to see what they have I haven't seen yet. 

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16 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm sorry as well. I can't even imagine. I hope that you're able to find both improvement and ways to cope and improve your quality of life. People really need to hear this about how bad it can be later on.

My friends husband who works at the health district uses my story (anonymously) when giving presentations about covid and such.   He tells people they do NOT want this.   I don't think enough people care. Or they just think it can't happen to them. 

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17 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

My friends husband who works at the health district uses my story (anonymously) when giving presentations about covid and such.   He tells people they do NOT want this.   I don't think enough people care. Or they just think it can't happen to them. 

I am sorry you are still ill. The first person we know who fell ill in March of 2020 was still in bed for hours per day as of November 2020 (work acquaintance and then there was a job change). It's no joke.

This will sound really counterintuitive, but there are some anti-mask, anti-vax people who don't believe it's a hoax, they just believe the government is seizing the opportunity to control people, etc. Some of these folks seem to be sharing tips for recovery from long Covid. Anyway, you might find information in some unlikely places, and some of it might be reasonable.

I think Dysautonomia International has been looking at long Covid as it has a lot of overlaps with some of the dysautonomic conditions.

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I'm so sorry...Please know that there is a whole community on here who hear you and believe you. Praying for healing and for answers. I don't know if you are connected to the long haul community yet. Listening to them share personally about their journey has been illuminating in understanding how much you and fellow long haulers have been suffering.

 

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2 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Thanks. I don't know that I *have* depression. I just feel sad and discouraged.  

That map has the one clinic for my city listed and I joined their FB group just to see what they have I haven't seen yet. 

Do be aware that people with ME/CFS (which seems indistinguishable with Long Covid) typically have very bad reactions to SSRI type antidepressants. Often causes very bad crashes.

Normal to feel sad and discouraged after months of illness and no promise of near term recovery. Be cautious of taking such medications if offered.

Sorry you are going through this.

Bill

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1 hour ago, Plum said:

Here are recommendations from The American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation for how to deal with PASC fatigue including the 4 P's, diet and supplements. At least it is a plan, probably more than you'll get from a doctor. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I know how hard it can be. I hope it helps!

The American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation has released the first clinical guidance on the treatment of post-COVID-19-related fatigue. It marks the first clinical guidance on treating long-haulers released since the CDC's interim guidance issued June 14.

The guidance statement on long COVID-19 fatigue was published in The American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation's PM&R journal Aug. 6. The organization plans to release additional long COVID-19 guidance statements on cognitive impairment, breathing discomfort, cardiac and autonomic issues, neuropsychology, and pediatrics. 

"The guidance statements are generally acceptable approaches to the assessment and treatment of [post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2, or PASC — the official term for long COVID-19]," said Benjamin Abramoff, MD, co-chair of the academy's PASC collaborative. "The recommendations attempt to define practices that meet the needs of most patients in most circumstances. The ultimate judgement regarding care of a particular patient must be made by the clinician and patient in light of all the circumstances presented by that patient." https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcomes/medical-group-releases-guidance-on-post-covid-19-fatigue.html

 

Multidisciplinary collaborative consensus guidance statement on the assessment and treatment of fatigue in post acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC) patients

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/pmrj.12684

 

That paper is so long and difficult but I'm trying.    Thanks!

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1 hour ago, calbear said:

I'm so sorry...Please know that there is a whole community on here who hear you and believe you. Praying for healing and for answers. I don't know if you are connected to the long haul community yet. Listening to them share personally about their journey has been illuminating in understanding how much you and fellow long haulers have been suffering.

 

Yes these ladies have been so helpful/inspiring.  Makes me feel not crazy 😉

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Even outside of Covid, people don't understand chronic fatigue and illness.  They think that because they've had a sleepless night or two that they know what the fatigue is like.  They don't.  Unless you have to gear up for a shower and then have to rest afterwards, you don't really understand what fatigue is. . .

I have had chronic illness for over 30 years.  I still have siblings who have no clue.  (They should have a clue. . . but they don't. )  And frankly, despite talking about it online, I don't tend to talk about it in real life much.  There isn't anything anyone can do to fix me (and I'm tried of being offered essential oils, supplements and coffee enemas. . .)  I do have a good naturopathic doc as well as my allopathic one.  The two together work well for me - though again, no cures, but there have been things which have made things better.

Practically speaking, I have learned to be productive starting in five minute intervals (and at times even shorter intervals).  It sucks.  Part of me is resigned to "it is what it is" and part of me is researching, trying new things and praying while refusing to give up. 

I can give some tips for what has helped me, but my journey (which started with a completely different virus) might not be the same as yours.  I will say that in my case, I have had to fight to keep from being a semi-invalid.  Muscles atrophy, metabolism tanks, and it's a serious nightmare to combat.  But there is a vicious circle because. . . crushing fatigue and in my case, chronic pain. 

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7 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Even outside of Covid, people don't understand chronic fatigue and illness.  They think that because they've had a sleepless night or two that they know what the fatigue is like.  They don't.  Unless you have to gear up for a shower and then have to rest afterwards, you don't really understand what fatigue is. . .

I have had chronic illness for over 30 years.  I still have siblings who have no clue.  (They should have a clue. . . but they don't. )  And frankly, despite talking about it online, I don't tend to talk about it in real life much.  There isn't anything anyone can do to fix me (and I'm tried of being offered essential oils, supplements and coffee enemas. . .)  I do have a good naturopathic doc as well as my allopathic one.  The two together work well for me - though again, no cures, but there have been things which have made things better.

Practically speaking, I have learned to be productive starting in five minute intervals (and at times even shorter intervals).  It sucks.  Part of me is resigned to "it is what it is" and part of me is researching, trying new things and praying while refusing to give up. 

I can give some tips for what has helped me, but my journey (which started with a completely different virus) might not be the same as yours.  I will say that in my case, I have had to fight to keep from being a semi-invalid.  Muscles atrophy, metabolism tanks, and it's a serious nightmare to combat.  But there is a vicious circle because. . . crushing fatigue and in my case, chronic pain. 

I would like tips for sure.  And I do know how invisible chronic illness and what the actual toll is to individuals and families. My mom and sister have fibromyalgia.  I wanted to avoid it so desperately.  That is one reason I'm so overwhelmed. I know exactly what this looks like and I know it's unlikely to go away.  

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I don’t know how helpful this will be and it’s speculation but there’s some thought that virus might be dormant for a long time in some people and the vaccination triggers the body to recognise and try and clear it.  That could be a possible explanation for why you’re feeling worse after the vaccine and maybe it will clear completely?  
 

Either way I hope you feel better soon. I struggle with energy levels anyway but to go from highly energetic to the way you’re feeling now must be so hard.

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On 9/14/2021 at 7:14 PM, busymama7 said:

Thanks. I don't know that I *have* depression. I just feel sad and discouraged.  

That map has the one clinic for my city listed and I joined their FB group just to see what they have I haven't seen yet. 

Really really gently, your post sounds like depression. Could you ask your doctor to screen you for it at your next appointment. And hugs to you. So many hugs. It will get better. Science is amazing. They will figure it out. 

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14 hours ago, busymama7 said:

I would like tips for sure.  And I do know how invisible chronic illness and what the actual toll is to individuals and families. My mom and sister have fibromyalgia.  I wanted to avoid it so desperately.  That is one reason I'm so overwhelmed. I know exactly what this looks like and I know it's unlikely to go away.  

I wonder if I should have used the word "tips" since I don't feel like I've mastered this at all.  In fact, last night I ran into a "concrete wall" of pain and fatigue and am now in a flare that "came out of nowhere".    I will try to tell you a bit about my life over the past 30 plus years (actually closer to 40 than 30. . .   eek!)  I am going to start with a caveat though.  For me, fatigue and pain are very closely linked.  So closely that I would say that fatigue = pain for me.  Cold = pain for me.  Hot = pain for me.  (in other words, my body interprets pretty much anything as pain. . . )  so much of my life centers around pushing through pain (since avoiding it doesn't seem to work). 

I will come back to this throughout the day to post my thoughts in categories.  But my first tip is to establish routines.  My life runs on routines.  I am going to go do my morning routine in a minute.  But having routines helps me through the brain fog that comes with fatigue.  It's much easier not to forget my meds, for instance when I know that my routine has it right after eating breakfast.  This is also why I've done the tackle threads here for years - it helped to write down those routines and it helped me mentally to see that I was getting something done - even on those days when it seemed like a struggle to wash one fork.  (BTW - I still tackle each day - I just do it now with a WTM friend over text.)  Routines also helped my children through the years.  As a busy mom, I'm sure that you have some already. 

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8 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Be very wary of this group and they are advancing quack "cures" like ivermectin.

Dangerous misinformation.

Bill

Ivermectin is not a quack cure. 

(And I’m not an antivaxer or anti masker either since I’m sure you will go there).

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On 9/14/2021 at 8:14 PM, busymama7 said:

I don't know that I *have* depression. I just feel sad and discouraged. 

You might want to distinguish emotions and body. Your body can be in a chemical state of depression without your soul being in despair. You don't have to wait for your soul to follow to get it treated. 

Have you looked at 5HTP? I missed how the topic of SSRIs came up, but 5HTP would be another way to get the serotonin up. Natrol time release is the bomb.

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Coming back for more chronic fatigue/illness tips:

If the brain fog is bad, I find that saying what I am doing (and going to do) out loud helps to keep my brain on track.  No one in my family looks at me funny any more when I do it.

I break down "big" tasks into small chunks.  These are things like folding a load of laundry or washing dishes.  I can't always do the whole task at once like a normal person.  So I will fold and put away five pieces of clothing (and have been known to reward myself with a chocolate chip for the effort.  😉 ) or will wash five dishes.  Then rest.  Then five more.  Then rest.  Etc.  Yeah, it's frustrating if you've been used to doing five of those "big tasks" in a row and now are breaking just one of them down into tiny chunks.  But it is what it is.

I find that if the pain is bad enough to make doing the chore difficult but not bad enough to stop me altogether, it can help to have "company".  This can be putting my phone on speaker while I talk / listen to a friend or family member talking, or talking to a family member in person while I do the chores.  It gets my mind off the difficulty of doing the chore.  Distraction is my friend.  TV, podcasts, music etc. can also be distractions.

Chronic fatigue requires a lot of planning.  I can't do multiple days of activity in a row.  I  plan one.  Then I "plan" to be out of commission for a couple of days after that.  If I'm ok, then it's a bonus. 

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1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

Yeah, Ivermectin is a quack cure.

Bill

 

 

 

And yet if I get covid and my doctor prescribes it, I’m damn sure taking it.  I get sick of people especially here downing some meds because they wouldn’t take them.  Well good for you. Let me bow down. 🤦🏻‍♀️  I’ve been vaxxed and will get my booster in December.  If I get covid, I’ll take whatever the hell my doctor prescribes, even the quack stuff, if it gives me a fighting chance, which I’m sure I’ll desperately need because I don’t trust my body to fight off covid frankly.   Madteaparty didn’t say don’t get vaxxed; she didn’t say go to tractor supply and buy wormer.  (sorry, Tori) said here’s a list of some things that could potentially help.  🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited by WildflowerMom
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Emergency mode, Regular mode and everything in between:

You might be still in emergency mode all the time (I was at first) but eventually I had good days and bad).  Emergency mode for me means that I work like hell to get dressed at some point (I just finally made it today and it's 3 pm - but I also had to do laundry to make that happen), provide (not necessarily make) meals and wash the dishes.  I have certainly had days when I couldn't get even that much done but it's always my baseline goal.  Emergency mode means resorting to emergency mode meals:  perhaps a rotisserie chicken and some deli salads.  Perhaps something from the freezer. 

If you haven't heard of Spoon Theory yet, here it is:  https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

I can go from feeling like I "have spoons left" to have absolutely none left at all with no warning.  This happened last night.  It was very hard to even do the bare minimum needed to get into bed at that point because even moving my body down the hall to make that happen felt like too much.  And then once I am in bed at that point I am often "too tired/painful to sleep".  I woke up this morning after Six hours 37 minutes of sleep (which is actually pretty good for me) still feeling like I had no spoons and had been hit by a Mack truck to boot.  I still have to figure out food. . .

I try not to rely on dh very much for help if I can at all help it.  There is a lot he has to do that I can't do even on a good day.  I don't want to add to the load if at all possible.  Being married to someone who's chronically ill/fatigued is not easy.  I am very cognizant of that fact. 

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Physical supports:

Stress = fatigue and pain.  This can be mental stress.  This can be stress from illness.  This can be stress from not eating/drinking/exercising correctly.  (And in my case, exercising anything outside of a very narrow band of not too much and not too little.)  This can be stress from the changing seasons (my body doesn't do temperature change very easily and if I'm really fatigued, I can't keep my own body temperature at normal levels). 

So eat right.  Fruits, veggies, gluten free if possible, anti-inflammatory if possible, good sources of protein, some say no dairy but I haven't been able to sustain that), no sugar.

Drink lots.  Water mostly.  Avoid stimulants like coffee, tea etc. if possible.  It might give you a burst of energy but then your body will crash.

Don't become a semi-invalid like I did. 

Possible supplements / meds that might help:  (Do your research, preferably consult a good naturopathic doctor who takes a scientific approach and not a "Woo" approach):

vitamin C

vitamin D

B vitamins - methylated if possible

amino acids

magnesium

other electrolytes

melatonin sustained release for sleep

DHEA - is the daytime hormone that works with melatonin (but take in the morning)

Co-Q-10

Chromium

low dose naltrexone

curcumin

 

Chronic illness is not cheap. . . .

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Mental Health and Chronic Fatigue/Illness:

As I told one doctor, being depressed that I have a lifetime of pain and fatigue with no known cure is the healthy reaction.  What do you want me to do?  Laugh about it? 

That said, while I vent once in awhile, I try not to dwell on it.  I try instead to focus on what I can do etc.  And I don't always vent to the same people - this includes my husband.  It's very hard for people to hear vents about something that they can do absolutely nothing about. 
My biggest "vents" are when I'm pouring my heart out to God.   

I try to keep track of those small victories/advancements that I have.  I try not to look too far ahead at my goal of "being normal again".  It's too far ahead and it's too depressing.  And I have no control over whether I can make it that far even though I'm fighting for every inch I go in that direction. 

I believe that it was Prairie, on this board, who told me about looking for chronic illness pins on Pinterest.  I have quite a large collection of Chronic Illness pins there - many of them dark chronic illness humor from people in my same boat.  (The sloth and turtle are my spirit animals.  😉 ) It helps to know that I'm not alone.  And it helps to try to see the humor in things.  I also look at informational articles from time to time but by this time in my journey there isn't a lot new that's out there.  

I also have a collection of verse pins that I find comforting and inspiring. 

Covid lockdown actually improved my social life.  For the first time people were home and glad to talk on the phone for a bit. . .  

You cannot see my pain in my face.  I'm a good poker player.  My son and dh are the only two people that I know of who can tell at a glance that I'm in pain. 

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It was me. I cope with dark humor. ❤️
 

I am about 15 years into being seriously chronically ill, 20 years (this week!)  from my first dr prescribed full bed rest. 
 

My advice/coping tips:

1. Chronic illness is isolating. Find some ways to stay connected to friends and community. It is too easy to opt out and stay home and rest—there will be times when you literally cannot—but get out as much as you can especially when you don’t feel like it.

2. Laugh where you can. I have that British self deprecation humor going on. I have a lot of things I can’t control about my life, but my attitude is one of them.

3. Get out in the sunshine. On days I can’t walk, I try to get out for a drive. Fresh air is so important. This also goes back to not being a recluse. Most of my life is takeout/pickup these days—but the librarian walks things to my car, the small shop owner does the same….build ways to make life work.

4. Make healthy simple meals, and teach people how to help. I utilize my instant pot a lot. I have a posted menu, and a binder of recipes. Pretty much everyone in my house can step in on days I am utterly nonfunctional. I often prep meals in the am when I have energy, then uncover my pot and pop it in and turn on the instant pot in the evening. Bagged salads also get utilized a lot. 
 

5. Work through the pain. The less you move the more it builds. Build your core muscles. Build flexibility in your shoulders and hips especially. On days I cannot move my shoulders to dress myself, my husband helps me get my swimsuit on and I get in the hot tub to soak. Heat helps me.

6. Be aggressive with meds. Damage is cumulative. Stop it now, work to prevent it further. I had an early intervention program with immunology and rheumatology. It has made all of the difference. Most of the people I know who tried to avoid meds early on now have fused joints or are getting surgeries. I actually have been in remission for most of my illness.  
 

7. Adapt to what you can do. I can’t scrub with my fingers, so I use a tool and use my wrists. I can’t always lift a bottle of laundry detergent so I use pods sometimes. Most people IRL have no idea of what my daily life looks like because I just make it all work. There are things I have to rely on my family for, but like Jean, I work hard to be as independent as I can be.

8. Yes on the supplements mentioned above. Fwiw, if I could only pick 3, magnesium (the good stuff, not mag oxide) would be #1, D3 + K2 would be #2, and a good B spectrum would be #3.

Fwiw, I  also do hear a bit of depression warning signals in your posts.  I am not self aware when I am depressed. Looking back, there were times when I definitely was…and would have benefited from help. I would ask people in your circle of acquaintanceship and family for additional insight. 

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2 hours ago, WildflowerMom said:

And yet if I get covid and my doctor prescribes it, I’m damn sure taking it.  I get sick of people especially here downing some meds because they wouldn’t take them.  Well good for you. Let me bow down. 🤦🏻‍♀️  I’ve been vaxxed and will get my booster in December.  If I get covid, I’ll take whatever the hell my doctor prescribes, even the quack stuff, if it gives me a fighting chance, which I’m sure I’ll desperately need because I don’t trust my body to fight off covid frankly.   Madteaparty didn’t say don’t get vaxxed; she didn’t say go to tractor supply and buy wormer.  (sorry, Tori) said here’s a list of some things that could potentially help.  🤷🏻‍♀️

And that's why quack doctors are in business.

It is very easy to take advantage of desperate people.

The group that @madteaparty linked to are notorious purveyors of Covid disinformation. It is appalling that every corner of the internet is being used to promote medical fraud. I have no problem calling that out when it happens here.

Bill

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

And that's why quack doctors are in business.

It is very easy to take advantage of desperate people.

The group that @madteaparty linked to are notorious purveyors of Covid disinformation. It is appalling that every corner of the internet is being used to promote medical fraud. I have no problem calling that out when it happens here.

Bill

 

 

 

 

First, I didn’t link to it. Second, there are  actual doctors, around the world, treating with this medicine. Do you get to decide which “science” to believe? Incidentally,  I find it humorous that the most “believe the science” people are quite prone to name calling. 

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2 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

First, I didn’t link to it. Second, there are  actual doctors, around the world, treating with this medicine. Do you get to decide which “science” to believe? Incidentally,  I find it humorous that the most “believe the science” people are quite prone to name calling. 

LOL. There are quacks around the world taking advantage of people with a treatment that has been shown to be ineffective (at best) and dangerous (at worst).

This is anti-science at its worst. Please don't bring this sort of crap to this forum. Thanks!

Bill

 

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Just now, Spy Car said:
2 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

LOL. There are quacks around the world taking advantage of people with a treatment that has been shown to be ineffective (at best) and dangerous at worst.

This is anti-science at its worst. Please don't bring this sort of crap to this forum. Thanks!

Bill

 

 

This is factually incorrect. And nobody appointed you forum tzar. 

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2 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

This is factually incorrect. And nobody appointed you forum tzar. 

Not "incorrect" in any measure.

The biggest trial to date on Ivermectin (the Together Trail) concluded that Ivermectin is ineffective against Covid, as have smaller trials.

This is what the joint press release by the American Medical Association (AMA), American Pharmacists Association (APHA), and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (ASHP) has to say about Ivermectin and Covid [some edits included, emphasis added, full text at link]:

https://www.pharmacist.com/Practice/COVID-19/APhA-Joint-Statement-on-the-Use-of-Ivermectin-for-COVID-19

The American Medical Association (AMA), American Pharmacists Association (APHA), and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (ASHP) strongly oppose the ordering, prescribing, or dispensing of ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 outside of a clinical trial.

Ivermectin is approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for human use to treat infections caused by internal and external parasites. It is not approved to prevent or treat COVID-19.

We are alarmed by reports that outpatient prescribing for and dispensing of ivermectin have increased 24-fold since before the pandemic and increased exponentially over the past few months. As such, we are calling for an immediate end to the prescribing, dispensing, and use of ivermectin for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 outside of a clinical trial.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the FDA have issued advisories indicating that ivermectin is not authorized or approved for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19. The National Institutes of Health, World Health Organization, and Merck (the manufacturer of the drug) all state there is insufficient evidence to support the use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19. The Infectious Diseases Society of America Guidelines on the Treatment and Management of Patients with COVID-19 also recommend against the use of ivermectin outside of a clinical trial.

Use of ivermectin for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 has been demonstrated to be harmful to patients. Calls to poison control centers due to ivermectin ingestion have increased five-fold from their pre-pandemic baseline. A recent CDC Health Alert Network Advisory recommends that healthcare professionals should counsel patients against use of ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19, including emphasizing the potentially toxic effects of this drug, including “nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Overdoses are associated with hypotension and neurologic effects such as decreased consciousness, confusion, hallucinations, seizures, coma, and death.”

^^^ That's the science, not rogue doctors pushing quackery.

Please stop with the Covid disinformation.

Bill

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

And that's why quack doctors are in business.

It is very easy to take advantage of desperate people.

The group that @madteaparty linked to are notorious purveyors of Covid disinformation. It is appalling that every corner of the internet is being used to promote medical fraud. I have no problem calling that out when it happens here.

Bill

 

 

 

 

I don't like the site either, but busymom is needing help and there were some options there for people who are in long-covid.   And as much as I hate the idea of using ivermectin, I will if my doctor prescribes it because I have an open mind, unlike a lot of other people.   I don't pretend that anyone is a covid expert, because... please.  🙄    So I'll (and I hope other people)  get vaxxed (!) and keep an open mind if my doctor gives me something that people here bad-mouth every chance they get.   You're not a doctor.  You're not a covid expert.    No matter how hard  you and others try to play one.    

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2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 

If you haven't heard of Spoon Theory yet, here it is:  https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

 

I think spoon theory is the absolute best explanation of what it's like to live with a chronic illness that involves pain and fatigue. I am very, very protective of what energy I have. Getting too tired=hurting more and taking days to recover. Sometimes I almost worry myself with how rabidly protective I am of my energy.

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Just now, WildflowerMom said:

I don't like the site either, but busymom is needing help and there were some options there for people who are in long-covid.   And as much as I hate the idea of using ivermectin, I will if my doctor prescribes it because I have an open mind, unlike a lot of other people.   I don't pretend that anyone is a covid expert, because... please.  🙄    So I'll (and I hope other people)  get vaxxed (!) and keep an open mind if my doctor gives me something that people here bad-mouth every chance they get.   You're not a doctor.  You're not a covid expert.    No matter how hard  you and others try to play one.    

Taking medications that can do a person harm--or suggesting to someone who is hurting the way busymom7 clearly is--just isn't wise.

All leading medical authorities are urging doctors NOT to prescribe Ivermectin against Covid as it doesn't work as a "cure" and it can cause harm.

CDC, National Institutes of Health, WHO, Merck Pharmaceutical (who make the drug), The Infectious Diseases Society of America, the American Medical Association (AMA), American Pharmacists Association (APHA), and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (ASHP) all strongly oppose the ordering, prescribing, or dispensing of ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 as an off label use.

I'm not the one trying to "play doctor," with all due respect.

Bill

 

 

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