How much does an SAT/ACT score help in college acceptance at this point specific to homeschoolers?

[mlktwins]

My guys are likely going to end up at a school in our state (VA), but may look elsewhere too.  I don't see them going too far though -- maybe a neighboring state.  We will see.  They are graduating in 2 years.  

How much importance do you think colleges (I know this will vary by school/state) will be placing on SAT/ACT scores for homeschoolers in the next 2-3 years?  

I know GPA will still be a factor as well as their resumes.  Just curious on thoughts about test scores?  Will good scores open doors for homeschooled kids?

Would a really good SAT/ACT score make up for lack of AP/DE courses?  Are both equally important?

I'm cleaning out/organizing our school room (that they don't use much anymore 😪) and I have a million thoughts running through my head -- LOL.

 

 

 

[BusyMom5]

I think its important enough to try to test in Jr year at least.  Many scholarships are still based on test scores, placement into some classes depend on either ACT test or the colleges can give their own placement test.  While many schools have gone test-optional, I don't think it hurts to have scores- especially for homeschoolers.  I live in a very low regulation state, and without testing I don't see how colleges can evaluate a students academic readiness.  We, unfortunately,  get lots of parents who just don't teach much beyond pre-algebra level in math, use very basic science programs- if they bother to do a program at all.  There is so much variation between what I do, and what others in our local co-op do.  Colleges need to be able to see the more academic homeschool students- and thsts where testing and DE come in (at least for me).  

If you have local DE or AP options, now is the time to start looking into those.   My oldest did 2 years of DE.  My second hasn't started yet, in large part due to Covid putting so much online, but I hope to have a few Sr year!  Both will also have test scores.  

[Farrar]

It depends on what the score is going to be and what schools you're looking at as well as the student's overall profile.

What I would say is this... good scores can open doors, but not having scores (or not sharing bad ones) won't close very many doors that weren't already closed. 

Undoubtedly, someone will come in and say in this thread that it's not really optional, you have to take it, homeschoolers have to take it. But I had homeschool clients apply test optional last year at a variety of schools and not only get in, but get pretty good merit aid.

Of course, I also know students who had to have a score last year, including at supposedly test optional schools - either because they were a homeschooler or because the school still used tests for merit aid or honors colleges.

The most overgeneral rule of thumb I can give you is that it still often matters for public colleges and not for privates. But there are massive exceptions to that. The California and Washington publics aren't just test optional, they're test blind - they cannot look at the scores. And a smattering of private schools like Georgetown really care about scores a lot.

[mlktwins]

NM 🙂

Edited September 11, 2021 by mlktwins

[Lilaclady]

It depends on the school but some tend to favor rigor in course work over 1 test on a Saturday morning. A high score but low rigor tend to signal the student is capable but not doing the work so it might hurt more than hell. I think colleges prefer rigorous courses in whatever form- AP, dual enrollment, IB or others. 

[TCB]

I wonder if having a good score kind of eases your way in other areas of the admission process. If they see a good score I think they maybe don’t feel the need to scrutinize other things quite so closely.

[fourisenough]

I attended a panel info session last week including admission committee reps from five highly-selective schools (attended another one two weeks back with a different set of schools). They all seemed to tow the same line with regard to standardized testing’s relative importance: essentially saying test scores are only important if other areas of your application are weak, and they won’t get you in, but can help bolster an application with some gaps/weaknesses.
 

Of course, this was not specifically addressing the importance of test scores for homeschooled applicants. I think it is going to be pretty school-dependent. Some schools seem inherently more distrustful of homeschool transcripts. For those schools, I imagine a high test score will carry a lot of weight. For other schools that seem a little more ‘evolved’ (for lack of a better term), they don’t seem to be put off by no test scores even for homeschool applicants. 
 

I think if your student is a good test-taker, it’s worth it to maximize test scores, but not at the expense of other things (EC’s, rigorous transcript, good LORs, strong essays, etc.). If your student isn’t a good test taker (and there is some room for a growth mindset here— this can be improved), I don’t think it is a deal-breaker anymore, but they better shine in other ways.

Edited September 25, 2021 by fourisenough

[8filltheheart]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:20 AM, mlktwins said:

My guys are likely going to end up at a school in our state (VA), but may look elsewhere too.  I don't see them going too far though -- maybe a neighboring state.  We will see.  They are graduating in 2 years.  

How much importance do you think colleges (I know this will vary by school/state) will be placing on SAT/ACT scores for homeschoolers in the next 2-3 years?  

I know GPA will still be a factor as well as their resumes.  Just curious on thoughts about test scores?  Will good scores open doors for homeschooled kids?

Would a really good SAT/ACT score make up for lack of AP/DE courses?  Are both equally important?

I'm cleaning out/organizing our school room (that they don't use much anymore 😪) and I have a million thoughts running through my head -- LOL.

If I am understanding your question correctly, you aren't really asking if they need good SAT/ACT scores but if they need AP and DE courses.  If that is your question, if your students' transcripts have solid academic courses combined with really good SAT/ACT scores, then based on our family's experience a lack of AP/DE courses will not matter.    That is the scenario for my kids since our homeschool does not replicate traditional ps course sequencing.  A lack of APs and DE has not impacted their acceptances.

[cintinative]

14 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

If I am understanding your question correctly, you aren't really asking if they need good SAT/ACT scores but if they need AP and DE courses.  If that is your question, if your students' transcripts have solid academic courses combined with really good SAT/ACT scores, then based on our family's experience a lack of AP/DE courses will not matter.    That is the scenario for my kids since our homeschool does not replicate traditional ps course sequencing.  A lack of APs and DE has not impacted their acceptances.

This is so good for me to hear. 

[Momto6inIN]

My oldest had 3 APs and 1 DE course and an excellent SAT score. He was applying to a very competitive major (CS) at a non-top tier state school with an excellent reputation for that major. He got in but didn't get any scholarship money.

My 2nd had no APs and 1 DE and a solid above average but not great SAT score and some excellent leadership experience in several extracurriculars. He got in to the same non-top tier state school as a non-competitive liberal arts major and was awarded the school's highest scholarship.

I would only do APs if that coincides with your kid's needs and individual goals, not just to make sure you have some on a transcript.

I would have them take the SAT/ACT regardless, though, just because it's a relatively easy and painless way to give admissions something to compare with other students.

[Eos]

On 9/24/2021 at 9:45 AM, TCB said:

I wonder if having a good score kind of eases your way in other areas of the admission process. If they see a good score I think they maybe don’t feel the need to scrutinize other things quite so closely.

For some (selective) schools, good test scores are kind of "the bottom".  That is to say, they will look more closely at your student's other areas once they see your student has a good test score. 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Harpymom

[Roadrunner]

I am going to guess this not only varies by college, but also by major. I would think a white boy from educated family trying to get into an engineering school would be scrutinized very differently than somebody who is opting to major in ethnomusicology. 🤷‍♀️ Who knows.
But overall expect biased opinions - those who really oppose tests really want to believe tests aren’t being looked at while others think it’s a ploy to accept weaker but desired students (legacy, sports among others) and rules don’t apply evenly across for all kids. Know who you are and who you are really competing against. 
I think if you have a lot of DE and AP, maybe they will care less about SAT/ACT. 
I have heard all sorts. Somebody the other day mentioned Caltech excludes all grades given by parents  when examining homeschool transcripts. That’s apparently directly from a person in admissions.  I just hope there aren’t too many of those.  

[EKS]

On 9/11/2021 at 8:20 AM, mlktwins said:

How much importance do you think colleges (I know this will vary by school/state) will be placing on SAT/ACT scores for homeschoolers in the next 2-3 years?

I would assume that they will want to see scores that corroborate mommy grades and course descriptions if there are no or few outside courses.

[Eos]

9 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Somebody the other day mentioned Caltech excludes all grades given by parents  when examining homeschool transcripts.

I've always assumed this is the case, everywhere.  I could be wrong, but it's the assumption that I enter the process with as the guidance counselor.

[Farrar]

2 hours ago, Harpymom said:

I've always assumed this is the case, everywhere.  I could be wrong, but it's the assumption that I enter the process with as the guidance counselor.

It's not the case at most schools, honestly. But then they also want something to back up that these are the grades. Usually that's a test score that at least mostly matches those grades. But it can also be some AP scores and/or dual enrollment and other outside grades.

[kokotg]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

It's not the case at most schools, honestly. But then they also want something to back up that these are the grades. Usually that's a test score that at least mostly matches those grades. But it can also be some AP scores and/or dual enrollment and other outside grades.

yeah, I assume they'll believe my grades if the other evidence that's there supports them. If I gave my kid all As, but he had a lot of Bs in dual enrollment classes or 3s on AP exams, it wouldn't look right. I imagine the same thing is true to some extent with kids with school generated transcripts, though--if a college sees all As and an 1100 on the SAT or a bunch of 2s and 3s on AP exams (or AP classes with no scores reported), they're going to assume As are pretty easy to get at that school and take the GPA with a grain of salt. My general assumption is that good test scores validate good grades, but aren't a lot of use on their own. Like great test scores and low grades would raise their own red flags: "if you're so smart, why didn't you show it in your classes instead of just on these tests?" 

[Roadrunner]

I guess the question is will an accredited provider (say CLRC) grade be any different than the one assigned by me? I would hope yes, since a third party evaluated my kid. 

[RootAnn]

I've been roasted for this before, but my kid's transcript had all As by outside providers and great test scores (97-99%), but some B & B+ grades from me. Kid just wouldn't work for Mom like she would for someone else. So, it would have been great if they ignored my grades. I'm sure they didn't.

[mlktwins]

2 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I've been roasted for this before, but my kid's transcript had all As by outside providers and great test scores (97-99%), but some B & B+ grades from me. Kid just wouldn't work for Mom like she would for someone else. So, it would have been great if they ignored my grades. I'm sure they didn't.

That's why my guys have all but 2 classes outsourced this year!

[Roadrunner]

4 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

That's why my guys have all but 2 classes outsourced this year!

When you say outsourced, you count homeschool providers (PA Homeschoolers, CLRC, WTMA…..) or only DE? I am asking because I have heard maybe on this board that homeschool provider grades (even if accredited) were lumped together with parent assigned grades. 

[mlktwins]

33 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

When you say outsourced, you count homeschool providers (PA Homeschoolers, CLRC, WTMA…..) or only DE? I am asking because I have heard maybe on this board that homeschool provider grades (even if accredited) were lumped together with parent assigned grades. 

Home school providers.  Yes, they will be lumped together with my grades, but course descriptions will include the info.  I'm sure some people will say it isn't enough, but it is what I'm doing.  We aren't trying to get into Harvard or anything and I'm sure we will do fine :-).  I do have an SAT Subject Test to support one grade and a CLEP to support another grade.  Their first time SAT scores weren't too bad for zero prep and are higher than the average for some of the popular schools kids in the neighborhood are going to.  Their GPA is good also for those schools.  Gonna just keep moving forward.  They do have an AP class this year and am looking for DE this spring/summer and also next year.  Teacher recommendations will be coming from their Honors/AP classes.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by mlktwins

[Roadrunner]

22 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

Home school providers.  Yes, they will be lumped together with my grades, but course descriptions will include the info.  I'm sure some people will say it isn't enough, but it is what I'm doing.  We aren't trying to get into Harvard or anything and I'm sure we will do fine :-).  I do have an SAT Subject Test to support one grade and a CLEP to support another grade.  Their first time SAT scores weren't too bad for zero prep and are higher than the average for some of the popular schools kids in the neighborhood are going to.  Their GPA is good to for those schools.  Gonna just keep moving forward.  They do have an AP class this year and am looking for DE this spring/summer and also next year.  Teacher recommendations will be coming from their Honors/AP classes.  

 

We have enough grades assigned here by me and in some areas complete lack of outside verification. Foreign language comes to mind. We really, really don’t want to do an AP course in language. 

[mlktwins]

13 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

We have enough grades assigned here by me and in some areas complete lack of outside verification. Foreign language comes to mind. We really, really don’t want to do an AP course in language. 

Yeah, mine will have 4 years of Spanish (3 years will be honors) from a local class.  I will not be getting outside verification of those grades, but the teacher will be one of our recommendations.

[8filltheheart]

17 hours ago, Harpymom said:

I've always assumed this is the case, everywhere.  I could be wrong, but it's the assumption that I enter the process with as the guidance counselor.

If that were the case, then my last 2 high school grads would have had exactly 1 subject area with grades that would have been considered, Russian for 1 (taken with a private tutor) and German for another (German Online).  Considering they both received merit scholarships, one of them her U's top competitive scholarship (as well as offers from multiple other universities, including  a scholarship from URochester and full-tuition at Fordham), it is doubtful that they awarded them scholarships based on no grades.  I believe that my printed off of my homeschool printer with mom as their primary teacher and grade giver transcript was accepted at face value.  (Considering that dd graduated in May with a 4.0, I'm guessing that her U is probably willing to continue to accept mom-assigned grades.) 

[fourisenough]

8 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

If that were the case, then my last 2 high school grads would have had exactly 1 subject area with grades that would have been considered, Russian for 1 (taken with a private tutor) and German for another (German Online).  Considering they both received merit scholarships, one of them her U's top competitive scholarship (as well as offers from multiple other universities, including  a scholarship from URochester and full-tuition at Fordham), it is doubtful that they awarded them scholarships based on no grades.  I believe that my printed off of my homeschool printer with mom as their primary teacher and grade giver transcript was accepted at face value.  (Considering that dd graduated in May with a 4.0, I'm guessing that her U is probably willing to continue to accept mom-assigned grades.) 

Especially when they have top 1% SAT scores!

[8filltheheart]

15 minutes ago, fourisenough said:

Especially when they have top 1% SAT scores!

I have never had a child with top 1% SAT scores, so it isn't that, either.   Upper 90s %ile, yes, but not in the 99th.

[Dmmetler]

I also think it may be different for each class for awhile. For the class entering this fall, a lot of kids just plain didn't have test scores or had only ones done with the expectation that they would be baseline scores and show where to improve. This was, if anything, even more the case for homeschoolers since many high schools that WERE offering the SAT/ACT did so only for their own students to limit the "bubble".  AP exams were also an issue in Spring 2020, so some kids didn't have those scores that they'd counted on because the online just didn't work-or because they had stopped having any sort of class whatsoever in March, and didn't want to risk taking the exam.  Add that many kids didn't get grades other than pass/fail for the last half of the school year-or, for schools doing full year grades, for the whole year, and it was kind of a mess. I think a lot of schools operated under a "send what you have" policy. In one case, as far as I can tell, my kid got accepted to an out of state flagship U by clicking a link (that had likely been sent out in response to PSAT scores)-because we never sent them test scores OR transcript. 

 

This year, some schools are likely in the same scramble as last year, some are likely reverting back to wanting to see validation, and some are in flux. 

 

FWIW, my homeschooler ultimately picked a school that is test optional for everyone, but requires multiple essays and interviews to be admitted (and does a lot of placement tests for subject area placement) I strongly suspect that they also don't put too much weight on the transcript. 

[teachermom2834]

My experience going through this three times with regional private and state schools (in and out of state) is that what really mattered was GPA/ACT scores. I believe a certain threshold GPA was matched an ACT score and acceptance and scholarships were based on that. My kids did have several de classes but I really think the only difference that made was in a weighted GPA. The de classes pushed two of my kids up to a 4.0 GPA which helped their outcome on the scholarship matrix. My third was a 4.0 student even unweighted. I really don’t think anyone was wowed by the slate of de courses. I think the transcript would have been fine without the de as long as the ACT scores and GPA were high enough.
 

I did have one child get a full ride scholarship but that was not because of just his academic profile. He had the minimum academic profile to be considered but it was his extracurricular profile that won him that. 
 

The ACT score has still been important for my kids applying to not super competitive schools. It was probably the single strongest factor on their applications.