Watching from the sidelines - ds applying to grad school

[lewelma]

48 minutes ago, daijobu said:

So, as somone who lives in the Covid Wild West, where anything goes...how does it work?  If I buy a plane ticket for NZ, do I need to show proof of a quarantine reservation as well?  

(Also, God help you if you need gall bladder surgery in Texas right now.)

You reserve the flight, you book the quarantine with the flight number and get a code, then with the code you can then confirm the flight and pay for it.  No code, no ticket. Only AirNZ is currently flying into NZ (and it is partly state owned), so the government can dictate the terms of all flights. There are simply not enough spaces for all the people who want to travel, so Quarantine is fully booked up within seconds of releasing rooms (quite literally seconds because people are using bots). 

[daijobu]

@lewelma  DH mentioned someone "escaped" from NZ quarantine and now there are 100 new cases as a result?   Aren't people under armed guard in those hotels?

Edited August 28, 2021 by daijobu

[lewelma]

Just now, daijobu said:

@lewelma  DH mentioned someone "escaped" from NZ quarantine and now there are 100 new cases as a result?  

No one escaped, but the virus did. They know the index case (who was in a military run quarantine) through genome testing, but all the border workers are vaccinated and tested negative. So they don't know how delta escaped quarantine.  We currently have about 400 cases in Auckland which is in lockdown, but the rest of the country is covid free. On Tuesday, they are going to cut off the North of the country from the rest of us, until they get it under control.

[lewelma]

Sorry OP for getting sidetracked. The travel restriction is part of where my worry comes from. 

Later today I'll write up what I have learned so far about the order of events and how far in advance you student should be planning to be ready to apply.

[Hoggirl]

Ds’s Round 1 applications are due today. He was planning on submitting two applications in this round.  I’ve been behaving.  He did text a couple of weekends ago and ask for the specific degree title from my undergrad and then what year I graduated from law school.  (As an aside - why do schools always inquire as to the parents’ educational levels/attainments?  I remember this being on the Common App as well).   He even texted last night with some info about his holiday travel plans, and I resisted the temptation to ask, “Have you submitted yet??” or “Have your recommenders sent in their letters?”  Thinking on this thread has helped keep me accountable - so thank you for that! 

I’m assuming he will let us know if he gets interview invites. I think one school  is truly rolling with those.  Nevertheless, I don’t expect any news until mid-October at the earliest.  Here’s to hoping he doesn’t get dinged by both of them. 

[Hoggirl]

One of ds’s two schools will drop interview invites next Tuesday. Possibilities are invited, a deferral to consideration in Round 2, or “release.” His other school extends invites on a truly rolling basis. None for that school  have gone out yet. 
 

Vent: Ds still thought the one school dropping invites all at once also did rolling invites. They used to, but that changed a year or two ago. Bugs me that he is unaware of this sort of thing. And, it makes me wonder what he does or doesn’t know about the interview length, format, and it’s follow-up reflective essay should he receive an invitation. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Hoggirl

[Hoggirl]

So the other school emailed applicants today that it will be sending emails with invites at the same time each day once a day on business days between now and November 4th.  I guess if one has not received an invite by November 4th, you’re out.  So annoying to me for ds to have to potentially check it 24 times!  I really hope ds receives an invite AND receives one sooner rather than later. 

Sorry I am using this space as my venting space.  When do we ever stop worrying about our adult kids???  I assume the answer is, “Never.” 

[Hoggirl]

Dinged.  No interview invite from the one school. He has been, “released.”  What an interesting term for, “rejected.”

He seems okay, but I am sure he is disappointed. 

Daily email check-ins on the other between now and November 4th. Gonna be a long five weeks. 

 

[8filltheheart]

Sorry to read that @Hoggirl. Fingers crossed that he gets offers in Nov.

[Frances]

Sorry to hear about the release. I hope he gets better news from the other one soon.

[plansrme]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:38 PM, Hoggirl said:

He has been, “released.”  What an interesting term for, “rejected.”

 

At least he knows, I guess? I go back and forth on whether it is better to know or to still have a sliver of hope where these things are concerned. My head says "know," and my heart says "not until someone says 'yes.'"

[Hoggirl]

@plansrme - I agree.  I am a person who takes my coffee black - both literally and figuratively, so just tell it to me straight. 

Unlike the other school where he will now have to check his email each business day between now and November 4th to see if he receives an invite to interview there.  Hopefully, I will be able to report back before then that he has been invited, but at least he will know by then. 

Honestly, I am somewhat concerned that he is applying because he knows dh and I think it’s something he ought to do.  I think he is wanting a change (many of his peers are leaving the firm and taking new jobs), but I am not sure how much his heart is into it.  It’ll be interesting to see if he follows through and applies to any round two schools if this second Round one school is also a, “no.”  I only want him to do that if that is what HE wants to do.  

 

[madteaparty]

3 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

@plansrme - I agree.  I am a person who takes my coffee black - both literally and figuratively, so just tell it to me straight. 

Unlike the other school where he will now have to check his email each business day between now and November 4th to see if he receives an invite to interview there.  Hopefully, I will be able to report back before then that he has been invited, but at least he will know by then. 

Honestly, I am somewhat concerned that he is applying because he knows dh and I think it’s something he ought to do.  I think he is wanting a change (many of his peers are leaving the firm and taking new jobs), but I am not sure how much his heart is into it.  It’ll be interesting to see if he follows through and applies to any round two schools if this second Round one school is also a, “no.”  I only want him to do that if that is what HE wants to do.  

 

I’m also curious as to whether he knows why he’s applying to business school. Is he looking for a career change? There’s usually specific reasons for applying to business school (unlike say, law school or medical school, where the reasons are obvious). 

[MamaSprout]

On 10/4/2021 at 5:30 PM, Hoggirl said:

Sorry I am using this space as my venting space.  When do we ever stop worrying about our adult kids???  I assume the answer is, “Never.” 

Yeah... it only gets worse when you have grand kids to worry about, too. It's less day-to-day though.

[Hoggirl]

10 hours ago, madteaparty said:

I’m also curious as to whether he knows why he’s applying to business school. Is he looking for a career change? There’s usually specific reasons for applying to business school (unlike say, law school or medical school, where the reasons are obvious). 

I’m not sure this isn’t a weakness in his applications.  He is hitting a point in his current job where many of his peers are choosing to leave for other opportunities.  I think he is ready for a change, and I think he wanted to take his shot at b-school.  I believe if the other Round 1 school doesn’t pan out, he may not pursue any more applications in Round 2.  

[madteaparty]

3 minutes ago, Hoggirl said:

I’m not sure this isn’t a weakness in his applications.  He is hitting a point in his current job where many of his peers are choosing to leave for other opportunities.  I think he is ready for a change, and I think he wanted to take his shot at b-school.  I believe if the other Round 1 school doesn’t pan out, he may not pursue any more applications in Round 2.  

This is something to talk through and come up with a narrative because it will

come up in interviews..

[Hoggirl]

1 hour ago, madteaparty said:

This is something to talk through and come up with a narrative because it will

come up in interviews..

Oh, it’s addressed in his essays.  It’s not as though he doesn’t have any idea of his long-term goals - he does. I just don’t really think he thinks he needs the MBA.  Dh and I disagree with that, but we have some personal baggage related to my dh’s career that makes us think that ds is better off getting an MBA.  In our minds, it’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.  We think ds will have some opportunities denied him in the future if he doesn’t get one.  But, times are different now, so who knows.  

As of right now, he only has one more shot at an interview anyway.  

[madteaparty]

1 hour ago, Hoggirl said:

Oh, it’s addressed in his essays.  It’s not as though he doesn’t have any idea of his long-term goals - he does. I just don’t really think he thinks he needs the MBA.  Dh and I disagree with that, but we have some personal baggage related to my dh’s career that makes us think that ds is better off getting an MBA.  In our minds, it’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.  We think ds will have some opportunities denied him in the future if he doesn’t get one.  But, times are different now, so who knows.  

As of right now, he only has one more shot at an interview anyway.  

I’m just going to PM you. 

[Hoggirl]

Happy news - ds received an interview invitation from his other Round 1 school today! 🙂 

Should be scheduled in about a week. They usually extend admission offers to 1/3 - 1/2 of people they interview.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Hoggirl

[Hoggirl]

Ds had his interview today.  He said he felt it went well.  It was about 50 minutes.  I was happy to hear that he did not feel any of the questions were, “hard.”  He said he had spent time prepping by thinking about what questions might be asked so he would have a relevant, “story,” for anything that came up.  He felt as though he did. 

He has decided he will not apply to any other business schools for Round 2, so it’s this or nothing.  He is not sure if he will take it or not if he receives an offer.  It’s a BIG financial hit to take it.  This school offers no merit scholarships, and he would lose close to two years’ worth of income. Except for whatever summer internship he secured between years 1 and 2.  Which would be much less than his current salary range. 

Decisions come out December 9th - six weeks from today. I will report back then. 

Thank you for letting me post here!  It’s very helpful to me.  I talk to dh about it all as well, but it’s nice to have another outlet. 

 

[Lanny]

@HoggirlOn one hand he will feel good if he is accepted to one of those schools. But, on the other hand, that is an enormous loss of income. I wonder if he has also looked at MBA programs where they are I don't know the word for this, but I know at least one former colleague who got his Ph.D. in Education by attending one weekend a month. It was from a reputable school in Florida.    I think there are programs that are Online (or partially Online) from very reputable universities that he could do while working and hopefully his employer would pay part or all of the cost. He's very smart and he will find the best path forward.

[Hoggirl]

@Lanny Ds is not interested in any part-time MBA programs at this point in his career, but obviously that could change down the line.  I knew plenty of plenty of folks who pursued those at my dh’s former employer. 

I agree - he will find the best path forward for himself!!  Even if he doesn’t get an offer of admission, I am glad he was invited to interview.  I think the entire application process was good for him because it allowed for a lot of reflection/introspection on what he wants to do. 

[Eos]

Dd has submitted 6 grad school apps.  Agree with you @Hoggirlabout the process being good for reflection/introspection.

[Hoggirl]

Happy News!!  HE GOT IN!!!
Thanks for giving me someplace to share.  

Now we shall see if he decides to go.  

[freesia]

Excellent!

[fourisenough]

3 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

Happy News!!  HE GOT IN!!!
Thanks for giving me someplace to share.  

Now we shall see if he decides to go.  

Congratulations to him for his admission and to you for your restraint! ☺️ My oldest DD is just beginning to discuss graduate school. I’m following your lead and trying to be a sounding board without offering much advice; that doesn’t come naturally to me, but I’m getting better at it!

[Hoggirl]

48 minutes ago, fourisenough said:

Congratulations to him for his admission and to you for your restraint! ☺️ My oldest DD is just beginning to discuss graduate school. I’m following your lead and trying to be a sounding board without offering much advice; that doesn’t come naturally to me, but I’m getting better at it!

Ha! I try!  I have LOTS of opinions, so it’s tough!

I was constantly worrying and researching and looking on online forums.  HE didn’t know that, of course.  I do think I was helpful in a few ways.  Until I told him, he had no idea this particular school made calls to those admitted two days ahead of the portal update. I had also sent him links to potential interview questions before his interview.  I did text him ahead of time and ask if it were okay for me to send him those, and he enthusiastically replied, “Yes!”  I do have a lot more free time than he does, however. 

It’s definitely tricky not crossing over the line from being supportive to giving unsolicited advice.  I REALLY hope he chooses to attend, but the decision is his to make.  I am just thankful he has the choice rather than it being made for him by a ding (rejection).

If he does decide to matriculate, I will come back and name the institution. 

[GoodGrief3]

Great news! Glad to hear he has the option to go (or not!)

[plansrme]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:55 PM, Hoggirl said:

It’s definitely tricky not crossing over the line from being supportive to giving unsolicited advice.  
 

This sums up so much of being the parent of a young adult! Congrats to your son! 

For other parents of YAs looking at grad school (or whatever other next step), one thing I did accidentally that turned out well was make suggestions for other people she could consult. "Maybe X (a friend who is a couple of years older and already in the program to which she was applying) would look over your personal statement," or "Is there somebody in your department or in career services who can do mock interviews with you?" She took those suggestions and ran with them, finding a couple of good people to look over her essays. A club she is in had a speaker one night who does interviews for his similar program, and she asked him during the meeting for interview tips. So my strategy was essentially to outsource the advice. I didn't really do it on purpose, but I would have if I'd thought about it. 

[Hoggirl]

8 hours ago, plansrme said:

This sums up so much of being the parent of a young adult! Congrats to your son! 

For other parents of YAs looking at grad school (or whatever other next step), one thing I did accidentally that turned out well was make suggestions for other people she could consult. "Maybe X (a friend who is a couple of years older and already in the program to which she was applying) would look over your personal statement," or "Is there somebody in your department or in career services who can do mock interviews with you?" She took those suggestions and ran with them, finding a couple of good people to look over her essays. A club she is in had a speaker one night who does interviews for his similar program, and she asked him during the meeting for interview tips. So my strategy was essentially to outsource the advice. I didn't really do it on purpose, but I would have if I'd thought about it. 

Exactly!!  Ds has a friend in his first year of his MBA program at the school.  “So nice that you can talk to ____________ about it and get his perspective on what he does and doesn’t like.” 

[kokotg]

congratulations to him!!

[lewelma]

9 applications DONE!  Once the documentation was done it still took 18 hours to populate all the forms. What a nightmare. But it is done! 

[Gil]

On 8/26/2021 at 8:56 PM, serendipitous journey said:

Third, that it somehow isn't appropriate for an undergrad student to get help from parents.  To be true, it is sort of "unfair" for an undergrad to get help from capable parents because so many undergrads have parents who are less able or less willing to help than lewelma is; but I don't think it is inappropriate.

It's the Mathew Effect of Accumulating Advantage and to be blunt, we're here for it. 

On 8/26/2021 at 10:03 PM, EKS said:

I'm going to say something that is probably not PC, or whatever the appropriate term is now, but this is one reason that success can be a family trait.  

It is natural for parents to act as consultants for their adult children.  

Amen.  The skills, knowledge and advise that I have to give to my kids, I'm giving them. We don't have tons of money, so the majority of what I can give my kids is my time and attention.

I was in UG only some years ago and I assure you that while I was there many parents also purchase private advisors and counselors for their college aged students.
Parents still routinely pay for expensive private tutoring or exam fees, many parents buy their students business casual or professional dress for mixers and events. These young adults have private counselors who read their essays and give feedback, assist with their applications etc. Many of these young adults have told me out of their mouths that they learned to play golf/racquet ball/tennis growing up in preparation for college and the young adult years.

Some parents who don't have the money to purchase these things, still put the time and attention in for the paperwork side of things because many times the academics may be above their capabilities.

The "Young People Need to Sink or Swim" rhetoric leads to a lot of waterlogged corpses unnecessarily. I watched so many of my peers drown with this mentality when ~10hrs of attention with a matter might have helped them through.

 

[Hoggirl]

@Eos and @lewelma

Congrats on your YAs getting their grad school applications in!  I do hope you will report back on how that process goes for them. What does the timeline look like for them in terms of next steps (are there interviews??) and when will they have decisions? 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Hoggirl

[lewelma]

3 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

@Eos and @lewelma

Congrats on your YAs getting their grad school applications in!  I do hope you will report back on how that process goes for them. What does the timeline look like for them in terms of next steps (are there interviews??) and when will they have decisions? 

I have no idea!  I was just glad to get all those applications in!  My husband helped ds all weekend long to just deal with the filling in of all the forms, and then helped his (serious) girlfriend to finish hers yesterday and today. Hours upon hours of work *after* all the essays had been written. Each school required so much stupid form filling outing. Like take your transcript and put each class, grade, textbook, chapters covered, credits, etc, into separate little boxes, lots and lots of little boxes. They had to do this NINE times for nine schools with different forms. It was just nuts. But it is DONE! And all the profs have uploaded their recommendations. So that is DONE. Now we wait. I think they hear in March, and go visiting schools at that point. Decisions by April I would assume. DS and serious girlfriend are trying to coordinate school or location. She is in AI and he is in Theoretical physics. What a pair they make!

[Eos]

12 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

What does the timeline look like for them in terms of next steps (are there interviews??) and when will they have decisions? 

Dd just did a vitural open house for one program, which wasn't pitched as an interview but might also be for the program to listen a bit to the participants?  Unsure.  I believe it's possible for her schools to request interviews but she may not know any answers until March or even April.  That is a long wait!  Unlike early decision undergrad where you apply so early and hear back so early.  

 

On 12/14/2021 at 4:00 AM, Gil said:

We don't have tons of money, so the majority of what I can give my kids is my time and attention.

This is how I've felt all along. Along with "explicitly teaching executive function" I've tried to "explicitly teach reaching out for feedback and support." I think that social capital is harder to come by for homeschoolers, especially without money, and teaching them how to work with it is important.  We are their networks, or as @Hoggirl says we can point out who else might be their networks.  This is helpful to them in the short term for apps or jobs, but also in the longer term to teach them how to look for it themselves.

[lewelma]

9 days later!  He got his first interview!  And they want him to have a 20 minute presentation by the 30th of December. Gulp. He has never presented his research in this field before, so there is a LOT to do. But I think this is a very good sign that he will be competitive. 

[GoodGrief3]

3 hours ago, lewelma said:

9 days later!  He got his first interview!  And they want him to have a 20 minute presentation by the 30th of December. Gulp. He has never presented his research in this field before, so there is a LOT to do. But I think this is a very good sign that he will be competitive. 

This is very exciting!

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, GoodGrief3 said:

This is very exciting!

It is. My son has decided to go into Theory, which is much harder to get into than Experiment. He was told that without any research experience in Theory, that there was no way he could get into a program. But he was smart, and begged his way into a Theory UROP this past summer done remotely, while concurrently working on his Particle Physics UROP.  I was very worried at the time that he couldn't do 2 at once over the summer, but he did! And he dropped his course load this last semester to just 2 classes, so he could continue to do both research positions.  So the fact that they are interviewing him in Theory is excellent. This is his backup school, so a great chance to make all his mistakes when it matters less to him and when he may have less competition. He has only given presentations in Experiment, so he contacted 2 of his profs about how to do a Theory presentation. Both of them got back to him in 20 minutes just 2 days before Christmas. We were very pleased because now he knows what to prepare. He has to figure out what to talk about, make all the slides, and practice both the presentation and answers for expected questions. It is the 23rd and the interview is on the 29th. Yikes! Good thing he is at grandma's and there is not much to do!

[Eos]

Dd25 had to take the GRE online yesterday and it was sort of a circus.  First, she had applied for accommodations for diabetes and finally called them this week since she hadn't heard.  The person said oh right, we'll get back to you in 6 weeks - at which point she will have heard from some if not all of her grad schools.  So she decided to do it without, and if she went low and had to go check and eat she would just forfeit and not care.  They'll let you have an insulin pump but not a glucose meter in the room.  Next, we have pretty bad rural internet, so we started the day by taking everyone's devices off the internet, sending dd17 to town to do schoolwork.  Dd25 was on the landline with tech support, unable to receive texts or calls since her European phone number doesn't work here, for a full hour and a half before getting to start.  The silver lining was being able to sort through her blood sugar until after the late morning low and spike.  She finally took it, got a decent score on the verbal, bombed the math, and that's that.  

[Hoggirl]

Very exciting @lewelma ! How did your ds feel about the interview on the 29th? 

@Eos - gosh, all of that sounds stressful.  

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

Very exciting @lewelma ! How did your ds feel about the interview on the 29th? 

@Eos - gosh, all of that sounds stressful.  

Well, he thinks it went well but it was *intense* and not what he expected so he is doubting. He said it was like a PhD defence. He gave his presentation about his research to 3 professors in his area of speciality, and then they grilled him on why he made those assumptions, and required him to defend his choices for the modelling. Given that the poor kid had only just finished the work, and had never presented on it, the 'interview' was kind of unexpected.  We had looked up online what to expect, so had answers for 'why do you want to go to this school?' and 'what are your strengths and weaknesses?' etc. But that was not it at all. They interrupted him constantly to ask questions, made him go back a to previous slides to re-explain stuff, and then at the end gave him the third degree. Then they wanted to know why he had not taken 2 graduate level classes in physics, which he had good answer for (one he is taking next semester because it is not offered this semester, and the other he has covered about 75% of the work in other classes), but it made him *very* very nervous. The following day he basically had a panic that he was not competitive in theory, and should have applied to experimental programs.  That by only having taken 5 graduate level math and physics classes, that that was not enough. They they may not really count all the research he has done that is extremely high level, and that he should have done more graduate classes instead. So it has not been pretty.  We told him that he *is* competitive, but boy his doubting made me doubt. But I didn't tell him that. 

And to top it all off, this was his backup school. 😞

[lewelma]

I should add, the research he presented on was based on stuff that was published in 2021, and it took ds 40 minutes to convince his professor at MIT that what he had done was right -- it was just that complicated. This professor won the award for best undergraduate research advisor at MIT last year, so we know he is good and would have given ds a good project. So I think he is doing *very* high level work.  So we are just kind of confused and overwhelmed as to what is going to happen in the next 3 months. 

[Hoggirl]

Sorry to hear that he was thrown some unexpected curve balls, @lewelma

I have no understanding of all the different types of physics paths there are other than what I have gleaned from watching the Big Bang Theory.  

I am sure that the process is incredibly competitive. We think that at each level, of course, but as they move up through academic levels it only becomes more so.  All the best to him in finding something he desires that provides adequate funding. 

[Kathy in Richmond]

Congratulations, Hoggirl & son on the acceptance!

lewelma, I hope all works out for your son, too 🙂

[lewelma]

First acceptance!  He got into a great school for theoretical high energy physics. You cannot believe how relieved he is.

Shockingly, he found his acceptance in spam!!!!

[Eos]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

First acceptance!  He got into a great school for theoretical high energy physics. You cannot believe how relieved he is.

Shockingly, he found his acceptance in spam!!!!

I went with "like" but laugh or cry would not be too far off either.  Congrats to him!

[fourisenough]

6 hours ago, lewelma said:

First acceptance!  He got into a great school for theoretical high energy physics. You cannot believe how relieved he is.

Shockingly, he found his acceptance in spam!!!!

Wonderful news!!

[lewelma]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:12 AM, Hoggirl said:

I have no understanding of all the different types of physics paths there are other than what I have gleaned from watching the Big Bang Theory.  

LOL. I just looked it up. Sheldon is in theoretical physics and Leonard is in experimental physics.

My ds has applied to 4 schools in theoretical high energy physics (similar field to Sheldon), 4 schools in condensed matter theory, and 1 school in experimental particle physics. Theoretical physics encodes physics ideas in to math and uncovers universal relationships and interactions through mathematical proofs and derivations. It is the perfect combination of my ds's love of math and physics. 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by lewelma

[Hoggirl]

Congratulations to your ds @lewelma!! 

May I ask - does acceptance equate to full funding?  Or is that an additional step in the process?

I’m asking because I have a friend whose ds is applying to PhD programs (albeit in a far different field - botany).  I don’t want to ply her with too many questions, and I just don’t know how the process works.  I’m not certain she does either. Perhaps it varies among disciplines.  Cornell has shown strong interest in him, but he has more steps to take.  So, I guess that means he does not yet have an, “acceptance.”