Do your kids plan to have kids?

[Spryte]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

I was just thinking that not having anyone to care about us in our old age is one of the reasons people feel sad for childless individuals.  And while obviously there is no guarantee, and none of us had kids for that purpose, there probably is some truth to the idea that childless people are the most alone in the end.  And I'm not talking about changing diapers and such.  I'm talking about anyone giving an actual damn if you're reasonably comfortable, safe, and peaceful.

I'm not thinking about myself, but about my kids, 70+ years from now.  If they decide to never have children, then who will they trust instead?  An attorney practice?  A church community?  I really don't know what the general thinking is.

Ah, ok, yes. I wondered that for my own kids who are aiming to be childless. Obviously two of mine are too young to be sure, but one has made the choice and measures have been taken to be sure there won’t be any “oops” babies. (Again, I support the choice.)

I don’t have any answers on who will give a damn. I wish I did.

This is maybe it’s own thread, but …

My current thoughts have recently changed on this. Formerly, naively, I thought this was all about resources. What I am seeing now, personally, with three elders currently, is that there are two vital components in elder life: resources and community. They need both.

Ostensibly a person or couple with no kids will have the resources to pay for good care. Well, hopefully - obviously not a given. But resources aside, community is the other component that I’m feeling, right now, is more vital.

You’re right, the diaper changing aside, someone needs to visit the care home. Or, in the case of my live in elder, someone needs to care enough and have time to sit and have conversations. Phone calls, visits, lunch dates, shopping dates, social time. In the 36 Hour Day, a book on dementia care, the authors address the fact that the caregivers are often too busy, worn down, over worked, to provide recreation. And it’s true. One cannot provide med assistance, bathing assistance, meal and dressing assistance (plus homeschool kids and take care of life) and also provide social time and recreation to a high needs, extrovert elder. It’s impossible. Care homes have activities directors, and staff just for this purpose! So even having kids doesn’t guarantee that one’s needs will be completely met, because, for example, if you end up living with your over-worked, middle age daughter who is sandwiched between kids and also caring for elderly ILs, in a pandemic, you may have exceptional physical care, and the best she can provide for social needs, but it just may not be enough for a lifelong extrovert.

So it comes down to community. Not just churches and senior centers, but teaching our kids to build community. Build friendships, create bonds with people of all ages (like your bestie’s kids, nieces and nephews), maintain relationships, make time for lunches and dates and phone calls. If church is what keeps one connected, great. If it’s volunteering or working, fine. I think the danger is in becoming isolated.

I don’t think community is the answer to everything, but I have definitely seen the value in nurturing relationships, and building community for elders. And for all ages. The elders I know who work to maintain relationships of all types seem healthier and happier, and more fulfilled, than the ones who hit a certain point in life and just sat down, never to get up again, and stopped connecting with the world outside their home. A body in motion stays in motion, and perhaps that applies in more ways than one.

[SKL]

9 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Ah, ok, yes. I wondered that for my own kids who are aiming to be childless. Obviously two of mine are too young to be sure, but one has made the choice and measures have been taken to be sure there won’t be any “oops” babies. (Again, I support the choice.)

I don’t have any answers on who will give a damn. I wish I did.

This is maybe it’s own thread, but …

My current thoughts have recently changed on this. Formerly, naively, I thought this was all about resources. What I am seeing now, personally, with three elders currently, is that there are two vital components in elder life: resources and community. They need both.

Ostensibly a person or couple with no kids will have the resources to pay for good care. Well, hopefully - obviously not a given. But resources aside, community is the other component that I’m feeling, right now, is more vital.

You’re right, the diaper changing aside, someone needs to visit the care home. Or, in the case of my live in elder, someone needs to care enough and have time to sit and have conversations. Phone calls, visits, lunch dates, shopping dates, social time. In the 36 Hour Day, a book on dementia care, the authors address the fact that the caregivers are often too busy, worn down, over worked, to provide recreation. And it’s true. One cannot provide med assistance, bathing assistance, meal and dressing assistance (plus homeschool kids and take care of life) and also provide social time and recreation to a high needs, extrovert elder. It’s impossible. Care homes have activities directors, and staff just for this purpose! So even having kids doesn’t guarantee that one’s needs will be completely met, because, for example, if you end up living with your over-worked, middle age daughter who is sandwiched between kids and also caring for elderly ILs, in a pandemic, you may have exceptional physical care, and the best she can provide for social needs, but it just may not be enough for a lifelong extrovert.

So it comes down to community. Not just churches and senior centers, but teaching our kids to build community. Build friendships, create bonds with people of all ages (like your bestie’s kids, nieces and nephews), maintain relationships, make time for lunches and dates and phone calls. If church is what keeps one connected, great. If it’s volunteering or working, fine. I think the danger is in becoming isolated.

I don’t think community is the answer to everything, but I have definitely seen the value in nurturing relationships, and building community for elders. And for all ages. The elders I know who work to maintain relationships of all types seem healthier and happier, and more fulfilled, than the ones who hit a certain point in life and just sat down, never to get up again, and stopped connecting with the world outside their home. A body in motion stays in motion, and perhaps that applies in more ways than one.

I agree with all of this, but if the trend is toward fewer people having kids, then this is going to be very taxing on the smaller younger generation.

If neither of my kids has children, well, they have two slightly younger cousins, and that's it (the older cousins are unlikely to bother with them even if they live long enough).  If their two younger cousins have kids, then I don't think it's fair or realistic to expect them to step up and care for them as well as their own parents.  Maybe an occasional visit or phone call if they're nice kids and if my kids have been nice to them.  Maybe.  TBH I don't do this for my aunt and uncles.  (Maybe I will after their siblings pass, particularly if they don't have kids able to do this.)

[Carrie12345]

25 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Ostensibly a person or couple with no kids will have the resources to pay for good care. Well, hopefully - obviously not a given. But resources aside, community is the other component that I’m feeling, right now, is more vital.

The question has crossed my mind as I watch a relative (I want to say 60?) go through divorce with obvious financial impact, but the potential for it to be an even bigger impact than one might expect. No kids, youngest sibling, not particularly emotionally close to nibblings (had to, lol), and now relocating to a whole new region knowing only the eldest sibling.

That’s a lot!

So, no, I don’t think people should have kids for elderly support. But elderly support does need to be thought about one way or another. 

[Spryte]

22 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

The question has crossed my mind as I watch a relative (I want to say 60?) go through divorce with obvious financial impact, but the potential for it to be an even bigger impact than one might expect. No kids, youngest sibling, not particularly emotionally close to nibblings (had to, lol), and now relocating to a whole new region knowing only the eldest sibling.

That’s a lot!

So, no, I don’t think people should have kids for elderly support. But elderly support does need to be thought about one way or another. 

I hope your relative’s move is smooth, and that she can immediately start with that community building! I do think it’s possible, and community doesn’t have to be family. It will take work though.

My live-in elder moved to our area at 78, and even at that age did an excellent job with starting building community. She moved into an independent senior community and made a ton of friends. It would have been helpful if she also attended church or some activities outside of the community, but that was difficult for her. Still, they formed a tight group and watched out for each other, helped one another, had pizza parties, went to lunch. And I, in turn, helped all of them from afar with shopping and errands. My elder had a traumatic event that disconnected her from the community just prior to Covid, unfortunately, and rebuilding community during Covid is difficult. The loss of that community is profound. Keeping up relationships via phone calls helps some.

I wish we had better supports for elders.

[Pamela H in Texas]

My kids:

M (29): had hysterectomy, no interest in mate or adoption 

J (26): looking for Ms Right, is pretty iffy about wanting kids

V (15): probably will marry and have kids 

A (14): wants to adopt from fostercare if he has kids at all

T (13): not planning on kids

W (7): wants to adopt 4 kids

R (4): definitely wants babies

I am fine with their choices as I feel they are theirs to make. I'm really thinking it'll be fine if they don't have kids even though I'd like grandbabies eventually.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Pamela H in Texas
add a little

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

 

So, no, I don’t think people should have kids for elderly support. But elderly support does need to be thought about one way or another. 

Agreed. The default has always been "have kids" and then the following assumption, kids will be involved with elders, live close, etc. So society has not been willing to talk about the elephant in the room, a lot of kids aren't involved for a host of reasons, employment takes people across the country, children die, whatever, and the elderly need support, so we need a support system. And that had not materialized or even been the subject of much public conversation. This is not good!

[marbel]

I quickly googled this topic and came up with lots of articles about aging without family immediately. I did not read them all in depth. There is surely some repetition. But it is definitely being talked about.  

https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/basics/info-2017/tips-aging-alone.html

https://www.seniorliving.org/health/aging/no-family/

https://homecareassistance.com/blog/aging-without-family

https://money.com/solo-seniors-elder-orphans-resources/

 

[Amy Gen]

2 hours ago, Spryte said:

Build friendships, create bonds with people of all ages (like your bestie’s kids, nieces and nephews),

My mom’s oldest sister never had children or a marriage that lasted for more than a couple of years, but she was very involved with us growing up. She bought us ridiculous gifts like baby rings with real diamonds and our birthstones, and life sized stuffed animals from FAO Schwarz. She is in a care home now, and one of my cousins has guardianship over her. My cousin told me recently how this aunt is who always had the time and the will to make things special for her and she will never allow her to be without everything she needs in her old age.  
 

When my kids tell me they never want children of their own, I say, “Well, the world needs special Aunties too!” 

[Brittany1116]

I have two boys and they both want kids. One says 2-3, the other says 10. 😉

[Eos]

21 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

My eldest and his wife just recently suffered another failed IVF treatment. They've decided that's enough. Too much money and too much heartache. So now the plan is to remain childless and try to be a great uncle and aunt.

I'm sorry, this is so hard.