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Do your kids plan to have kids?


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15 minutes ago, marbel said:

The people who are concerned about the future of the planet are the people who will likely pass on their own philosophy of caring for the earth to their own children, while those who aren't, won't

That was my thought reading this as well. If the only people having kids are those who don’t have worries about the planet and don’t think humans have anything to do with it, that will almost guarantee trouble. 

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No. Both sons are single, stable, and blissfully happy. And if they are happy, so am I. One of them keeps being asked when he will date and that he needs a girlfriend. I told him as soon as he found one, they’d want to know when he’s  getting married. Then when will you have a kid. After that, they will want to know when you’re having another kid. After two kids, they will ask how many you plan to have. So I just said ignore all that, and live your life the way you want. 
 

I do have a grand cat. She is fabulous and very smart.

 

Editing: Younger ds says if he did have a child, he or she would definitely be educated at home. 
 

Edited by Indigo Blue
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Oldest - most likely not. She might grow and change in her 30s, but we'll see.

Middle - might adopt. She does not think she can handle pregnancy with her mental and physical health issues, and I don't think she's off base there. But she totally wants at least a couple of kids. She may end up just working with kids though.

Youngest - says no now at age 14, but I think she'll probably have kids. She's the most maternal of the three.

If I end up with grandkittens, grandpuppies, and/or grandbabies, I'll be happy.

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My daughter definitely wants at least one child. She is bisexual, and currently in a same-sex relationship. So, having a family may turn out to be a challenging and expensive process. It is definitely in the tentative plan for her, though, once she feels settled with a partner and financially ready.

My son has always said he would like to be a dad. One source of borrowing-trouble-from-the-future tension with his ex-girlfriend was that she is not particularly interested in having kids. He and the current girlfriend seem to be well suited, and I suspect will be together for some time; however, they are not remotely ready to do the parenting thing yet. I will be mildly surprised if he doesn't have at least one child, but I'd be very surprised if it happens within the next five years. He's only 23, so there's no rush.

Although I believe strongly that it is none of my business whether or when anyone else -- including my own offspring -- start families, I will admit I would love to be a grandma. And, assuming the potential parents are in a good place and enthusiastic about the prospect, sooner rather than later is fine with me.

In the meantime, I'll have to be content with cuddling my son's girlfriend's dog when I visit.

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7 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

Although I believe strongly that it is none of my business whether or when anyone else -- including my own offspring -- start families, I will admit I would love to be a grandma. And, assuming the potential parents are in a good place and enthusiastic about the prospect, sooner rather than later is fine with me.

I

A friend of mine has five kids - all adults now - and is getting frustrated that none of them have kids yet (only one is married, but two have declared they don't want kids).  She was actually angry with one of her sons - and expressed that anger to him - because he doesn't want kids.  I can understand being disappointed, but I can't understand expressing anger with anyone for not planning on having children.  She desperately wants grandchildren and misses having her kids at home.  And her DH is older and she worries that he'll be getting too old by the time grandchildren come around.

 

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My oldest is a maybe, and my youngest is a no.  (They are 14 and have never really wanted to be moms, so far, though obviously time will tell.)

Oldest's 'maybe' is conditioned:  "if you [mom] promise to pay for his college and help with his math homework, then I might ...."

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My oldest loves little kids, and he is so good with them.  He taught my 7 year old niece so many things this pandemic, and loved every minute of it.  He couldn't wait for my nephew to be born, and was so excited to get to hold him.  All the careers he talks about involve little kids.  I can't imagine  these characteristics changing, and I would be very sad if he didn't become a father. 

The one career my middle kid talked about was Catholic priest.   

My youngest kid wants to be a Dad because he likes to boss people around.  He would like to have someone hero worship him the way he hero worshipped his Dad when he was younger.  He's also made it very clear that he's going to do a better job naming his children than I did.  I do not expect these motivations to last, and wouldn't be surprised if he changed his mind. 

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29 minutes ago, KSera said:

That was my thought reading this as well. If the only people having kids are those who don’t have worries about the planet and don’t think humans have anything to do with it, that will almost guarantee trouble. 

The one thing proven true time and time again is that kids grow up, become adults, and do their own thing. Just because one is raised one way, doesn't necessarily lead to sticking with it. I was raised in a conservative Christian home with a father who to his dying day did not believe in any kind of climate change or even any kind of problem with pollution of any kind. Corporations were saints, water was fine, air was fine, oil spills are no big deal because god will clean it up and "sustain" the earth whatever that meant, etc. My brother has moved somewhat away from that and is a much more moderate christianish person. My sister is an atheist, environmentalist, earth is over populated not contributing to that problem, crunchy person. I am a quasi deist, progressive, non extremist but very concerned about climate change and specific issues like plastic islands in the ocean and heavy metals in water, loss of rainforest. My kids run the range from moderate Methodist Christian to atheist to Pagan. My brother's kids are deist, atheist, Wiccan, right wing extremist, and agnostic actively chaining herself to trees, very left wing extremist. Nobody has a cookie cutter kid in the bunch.

So I don't think the answer to any of the world's problems is for adults who see the environmental issues on the planet to have kids they do not want in the hopes they will believe exactly what mom and dad believe. They could just as easily end up having a kid who becomes a corporate lawyer helping BP covers it's tracks with the next oil spill! You just don't know what you are going to get.

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Oldest and DIL are waiting but will probably have kids eventually. They both adore kids. They currently have 2 dogs and live overseas. DS has goals of being a test pilot and that might be a hesitation point for DDIL.

Middle Child - no idea.

Youngest. Yeah I think he will have kids someday.... but it hasn't really been a matter for discussion. 

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As for how I feel about it ... right now, I tend toward very accepting if they don't choose to have kids, because life is complicated enough.  Personally I always had a really strong maternal instinct - I'd wanted a bunch of kids since I was a little girl.  I would have felt a big gap in my life if it had never happened.  But my kids are different from me.  If they are happy childless, then I guess I'll be happy for them.

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DD1-- in serious relationship-- they are talking 3-4 but are already in their 30's and want to wait a few years... tick tock tick tock

DD2--has already given me a baby to raise (but he is AWESOME!) I think she would like another-- but needs a steady relationship first (plus she has lots of health/mental health issues...)

DD3--in college but has a BF who is on a med-school track (working on masters and then headed for med school in 1 year)... HE wants 4-6!  DD smiled and told him that her body would love to provide him with 2-- but the others will come from someplace else! (she has always wanted to foster/adopt).  She has some chronic pain issues (CRPS) so even having 2 is a lot to ask of her.

 

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Both of my daughters (21 and 18) say that they don't want kids, but I really think that they are too young and inexperienced with relationships to know for sure. They could easily change their minds. I have always told them that having kids is their choice and they will never get any pressure to have kids from their father or me. 

I would never tell them this because they have to make their own choices, but I really hope they don't. I feel guilty enough for bringing them into the world as it is. I can't imagine bringing a new life into the world right now. It's hard for me because I feel like having kids was the greatest joy in my life and I can't imagine how depressing my life would have been without them, but I don't see positive things for their futures. I'm not only worried about climate change, social/political unrest, etc. I just don't see them having standards of living anywhere near what they enjoy now. My younger daughter has dealt with a lot of depression and anxiety. She has already expressed these concerns to me. I have done my best be really positive and assure her that she is going to have lots of opportunities and a bright future, but I really don't believe it.  So, I think they would be better off not having children, but I know that the biological urge is a strong one. 

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Child 1: Yes, already has one and plans on having a second.

Child 2: No, he's always said he doesn't plan on having kids.

Child 3: Yes, married and plans at least one.

Child 4: Yes, wants kids at some point.

Child 5: Yes, definitely wants kids, but still a teen.

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59 minutes ago, KSera said:

That was my thought reading this as well. If the only people having kids are those who don’t have worries about the planet and don’t think humans have anything to do with it, that will almost guarantee trouble. 

My family does see children as blessings but we are also very big on stewardship of the world and working hard to make it a better place. It's a huge reason why we farm. We feel so much better about our food choices because we know how things were raised and we are good stewards of the earth. MY dh is an engineer (wastewater) and part of his job is to clean up sewage and make eco friendly fertilizer from the sewage plant. They also have developed solar and methane processes to slowly transition from needing coal generated electricity. It's exciting to listen to the possibilities, and my kids have all heard what's possible.

So our hope is that in raising responsible, creative kids who are excited about stewarding the earth, we can help slowly turn the ship around. Or at least slow things down.  It's going to be a tough uphill slog but if each generation can change things a bit at a time, we'll at least be better off in a few generations. 

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My oldest says she would like kids.

My middle says she doesn't want kids, but if she does, she only wants to adopt kids.

My youngest talks about when he has kids, but doesn't specifically say he wants kids. 

I don't really have any strong feelings either way especially since they are on the younger side, but I really believe that it is a choice each person/couple needs to decide.  I would enjoy having grandkids, but I'm not set that they have to be biological.  I would be happy being an "adopted" grandparent.

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None of my kids plan on having kids.   I am positive the oldest 2 won't change their minds.  There is a very slim chance of the youngest changing her mind.  I fully support them not having kids and am actually relieved they don't plan on having them.

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My eldest and his wife just recently suffered another failed IVF treatment. They've decided that's enough. Too much money and too much heartache. So now the plan is to remain childless and try to be a great uncle and aunt.

My middle - well, you've probably seen my thread about him, DIL and their two children. Those children are the light of my life. The world is certainly brighter with them in it.

My youngest and his girlfriend probably haven't agreed yet about children. He's never been a natural with kids. The only time I've ever seen him interact well with littles is when we all went to Disney World and his girlfriend half forced him to hold my grandson. Well grandson is a super chill dude and easy to amuse and had my son throwing him up and flipping him around while grandson chuckled his fantastic baby belly laugh. I think this opened his eyes a bit to how amazing kids can be. His girlfriend definitely wants kids so if they get married I'm sure they will have a few.

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1 hour ago, Kassia said:

A friend of mine has five kids - all adults now - and is getting frustrated that none of them have kids yet (only one is married, but two have declared they don't want kids).  She was actually angry with one of her sons - and expressed that anger to him - because he doesn't want kids.  I can understand being disappointed, but I can't understand expressing anger with anyone for not planning on having children.  She desperately wants grandchildren and misses having her kids at home.  And her DH is older and she worries that he'll be getting too old by the time grandchildren come around.

 

I can absolutely understand the feelings of sadness and disappointment. Seven years on from when my son moved out (the first time), I'm still grieving not having my family around the house. I would be nothing less than delighted to have a bunch of grandkids underfoot. 

In addition, I have health issues that have caught up to me very quickly in the last couple of years, and my husband is not in the best of shape, either. I do worry that one or both of us won't be in any condition to be the fun, involved grandparents I dream of being if those theoretical grandchildren don't arrive soon-ish. 

However, this is yet another one of those areas in which I so valued my own freedom to make these choices that I would feel like a big old hypocrite if I tried to influence anyone else's decisions. And, when push comes to shove, I'm a lot more invested in my kids' health, happiness and well-being than I am in what I want, so it's 100% not my place to get involved.

Edited by Jenny in Florida
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As for the "changing their minds" thing -- I'll just say that I was absolutely adamant that I did not want to have children well into my 20s. Then, I wanted to have one. After that one, I wanted "just one more." And, honestly, I would have had at least one more after that if my husband had been on board. I also had no intention of being a SAHM. And I really thought that, as much as I loved my kids, I would be happy and a little relieved when they grew up and moved out and "I got my life back." The deep sadness of living in an empty nest never crossed my mind as a possibility.

Nobody was more surprised than I was at each of these developments. So, I have tried to get comfortable with the fact that I will just have to wait and see what happens.

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55 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

So I don't think the answer to any of the world's problems is for adults who see the environmental issues on the planet to have kids they do not want in the hopes they will believe exactly what mom and dad believe.

I don't think anyone is promoting the idea of people having kids they don't want. And, of course people don't always grow up to believe what their parents did. But if a couple live in a way that is caring/healing of the planet, as much as any individual/family can, some of that is likely (not guaranteed) to manifest itself in their children.  

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This thread has me wondering:  what is the retirement / end-of-life planning advice that is given to childless adults?  I joke with my kids frequently that I take care of them because I need them to take care of me in my old age.  But there is a kernel of truth there - I would hope there is at least one person who gives a damn how I'm faring in my declining years.  I don't know who else I could count on if not my kids.  I mean, I'm sure there are governmental entities set up for that, but my faith in the caring nature of governmental entities isn't high.  Soylent Green anyone?  😛

So as I think about teaching my kids life skills, what do I tell them about preparation for old age, if they won't have kids?

(Of course it might all mean nothing 50+ years from now, but I am just musing on it.)

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Ds27:  I have no idea if he wants children.  He's a PhD student, isn't dating anyone, and will likely have to do a few post-docs before he settles anywhere.  Not likely in his near future.  I think he'd be a great dad ... a bit nerdy and quirky, but he is great around kids in his own quiet way.  When he subbed for his sister in her babysitting gig, the kids loved him. 7 years later, they still talk about him.

K (25):  Probably not.  Doesn't really enjoy kids.  And probably shouldn't. Mental illness is a bugger!

Dd21:  She has vacillated between wanting lots of kids, to seeing herself as never being mature enough to have kids (which takes a certain maturity to recognize), to not wanting to ruin her life like I did 😁 (she did take that back, apologizing for devaluing my contributions as a mom), to not wanting to bring kids into the ecological disaster we are headed toward, to maybe wanting kids sometime in the future.  She will, however, have dogs ... big dogs ... like Newfies or something like that. 

I've resigned myself to the strong likelihood that I won't be a grandma.  It makes me sad, but that's my problem, not theirs.  I want them to live happy, fulfilled lives in whatever way that turns out to be.  I share dd's concerns about the future of our planet 

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1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

My eldest and his wife just recently suffered another failed IVF treatment. They've decided that's enough. Too much money and too much heartache. So now the plan is to remain childless and try to be a great uncle and aunt.

 

I'm sorry.  That is SO hard.  I went through years of infertility treatments for my twins and then quite a bit later as well, but nothing worked.  Then, soon after, my youngest came along - complete surprise.  I'll never ever forget how hard infertility was emotionally, physically, and financially.  Wishing them the best.  ❤️ 

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39 minutes ago, SKL said:

This thread has me wondering:  what is the retirement / end-of-life planning advice that is given to childless adults?  I joke with my kids frequently that I take care of them because I need them to take care of me in my old age.  But there is a kernel of truth there - I would hope there is at least one person who gives a damn how I'm faring in my declining years.  I don't know who else I could count on if not my kids.  I mean, I'm sure there are governmental entities set up for that, but my faith in the caring nature of governmental entities isn't high.  Soylent Green anyone?  😛

So as I think about teaching my kids life skills, what do I tell them about preparation for old age, if they won't have kids?

Same as what I've told Dd about having babies: You need passive income.


After losing her brother, Dd said she was having a girl called Rose, a boy called Marek and a white kitten.
Then she seemed to forget that and was going to have nine. The girls would go to school, and the boys would be homeschooled.
Some time later, we were driving along, minding our own business, when she suddenly yelled out in a panic "I'VE CHANGED MY MIND!" I was all "OMG, WHAT ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT?" She'd changed her mind from 9 kids to ten. (Not worth screaming about when I'm driving, K?)
Now she's down to two or three, providing the monumental task of finding someone suitable for her not exactly picket fence self can be achieved.

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My 13 yo says he wants to be a dad to "two cute little babies" one day. 🙂 I hope he meets someone (years from now!) that feels the same way. ❤️

ETA: I'm fine with whatever he decides.  

Edited by MissLemon
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3 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

He's also made it very clear that he's going to do a better job naming his children than I did.  I do not expect these motivations to last, and wouldn't be surprised if he changed his mind. 

Well, now I am wondering what your kids' names are...and what names this DS likes. 

Our oldest is only 11, so I don't put any stock in what any of them say about having/not having kids at this point. That being said, I think 2 of the 4 oldest probably will, at least. And who knows about kid #5. It seems mean (?) to speculate about such things before he is even 1!

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2 hours ago, SKL said:

This thread has me wondering:  what is the retirement / end-of-life planning advice that is given to childless adults?  I joke with my kids frequently that I take care of them because I need them to take care of me in my old age.  But there is a kernel of truth there - I would hope there is at least one person who gives a damn how I'm faring in my declining years.  I don't know who else I could count on if not my kids.  I mean, I'm sure there are governmental entities set up for that, but my faith in the caring nature of governmental entities isn't high.  Soylent Green anyone?  😛

So as I think about teaching my kids life skills, what do I tell them about preparation for old age, if they won't have kids?

(Of course it might all mean nothing 50+ years from now, but I am just musing on it.)

Although I think savings and passive income are great and should be easier to come up with if you aren't shoveling out tons of money to raise a child. Paying people to fix things for you, shop, and even change your diaper might seem doable but I'm curious about a couple things.

 

A) So you have lots of money. Who keeps you from being scammed and losing it all when you are no longer as quick witted as you once were? What happens to you someone drains your account?

 

B) If the majority are not having kids then the younger generation will be in high demand. I would think the cost of PCAs and home health aides and other related fields will shoot through the roof. 

Edited by frogger
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36 minutes ago, barnwife said:

Well, now I am wondering what your kids' names are...and what names this DS likes. 

Our oldest is only 11, so I don't put any stock in what any of them say about having/not having kids at this point. That being said, I think 2 of the 4 oldest probably will, at least. And who knows about kid #5. It seems mean (?) to speculate about such things before he is even 1!

My oldest child has DH's first name, but goes by his middle name which is a family last name that's a common boy's name like Carter.

My youngest is named for two grandmothers, both of whom are deceased.  His first and middle names are variants, and are definitely male (e.g.  it's as if one Grandma was Willa, and we named him Liam, since both come from William).  Nonetheless in his mind they are lady names.  

From the time he was very small, he maintained that being named for your Dad is so much better than being named for "dead ladies" and that this was evidence of some grand conspiracy against him.  Just as he was beginning to let this issue go, we adopted my middle child, who was previously my cousin's child, and whose middle name is his birthfather's first name, reopening old wounds.  

I am pretty sure that if youngest DS has kids, they will all be named George Forman style.  

Yes, I realize that we need to keep working on the sexism.  

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My oldest (27) would dearly love to marry and have children and homeschool. She has not found the right husband yet.  She may adopt or foster if the man doesn't appear.

My middle (24) got married in June and cried last week because she isn't yet pregnant. Her husband comes from a family of 10 children. They plan on 5-7. They plan to homeschool

My youngest (boy) (21) wants children and would be glad to be a SAHD and homeschool. He is planning on children but is not currently in a realationship

 

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DD22 has never really liked little kids, even when she was a little kid. LOL Her husband absolutely wants kids, so she plans on having them for him. That being said....she will be a great mom and I think she will enjoy it.  When they have kids, they plan to homeschool. I could actually see living off the grid a bit and giving herself completely over to her family. 

Ds27 absolutely wants kids and adores children. He is a natural father. He just needs to find a wife first LOL

DD14 (genetically my great niece). I hope she doesn't have biological children. That sounds mean, but on her maternal side she is the 3rd generation born with the same set of significant (!) mental health issues. My sister struggled to care for her kids and both kids spent time in foster care and jail. DD14s mom, has significant mental health issues and can't care for herself with out assistance. DD14 came to me at 5mo, from foster care. DD14 will also likely need help caring for herself the rest of her life. DD14's mom, has 3 living children who are all being raised by someone else. I hope that dd14 doesn't complicate her life with an infant who may have the same struggles as herself. If she gets pregnant without a partner, I will not raise the grandbaby. It will likely go to foster care. That being said, I think she has some great maternal instincts and could be a good step, foster or adoptive parent.  She would just need a solid partner to continue to parent her and the baby. They aren't bad people, thier lives are just heavily complicated due to mental illness. 

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1dd - would like to, isn't married.  

2dd - has two boys.   She's dropped they're not having anymore - but we'll see.  Her dh is the youngest of five.

1ds - would like to.  his gf (whom he would like to marry when he has a 'real' job and can afford her medical bills) would like to, but she has some serious health conditions that could prevent it.  

2ds- I have no idea  

dudeling.  - we'll see 

 

I do have a niece who shocked everyone by showing up at thanksgiving one year, six months pregnant.  She was 40.  Her dh really wanted kids (they'd been married for at least 10 years at the time.). and she was willing.   

I have two other nieces who've both stated they're never having children.  both have been married for at least two years.  (one closer to four or five.)

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DS 13 has said a few times this past year that he is never having kids because he doesn’t want to bring any children into this world the way it is. 

DD 15 had always said kids were annoying, but she is really very maternal and I’d be surprised if she didn’t eventually want kids. She doesn’t have the  doomsday outlook that DS does. 

Who knows. They are too young to know, and there is no telling what life will bring over the next ten years. 

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4 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

My family does see children as blessings but we are also very big on stewardship of the world and working hard to make it a better place. It's a huge reason why we farm. We feel so much better about our food choices because we know how things were raised and we are good stewards of the earth. MY dh is an engineer (wastewater) and part of his job is to clean up sewage and make eco friendly fertilizer from the sewage plant. They also have developed solar and methane processes to slowly transition from needing coal generated electricity. It's exciting to listen to the possibilities, and my kids have all heard what's possible.

So our hope is that in raising responsible, creative kids who are excited about stewarding the earth, we can help slowly turn the ship around. Or at least slow things down.  It's going to be a tough uphill slog but if each generation can change things a bit at a time, we'll at least be better off in a few generations. 

When people tell me they don't want to bring kids into a corrupt world or with negative climate impact....I always ask them "what if your child is the one who would have solved that problem" or "what if your child is the one to makes a huge positive change in the world? Most often, they say, they never thought of it that way! People want to instinctually protect thier (hypothetical) kids, but part of that is having children and then educating them to do better ! 

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DD 26 has no interest in having children. She has some mental health and AU issues.She does not do well around babies/toddlers, and does not do well with behavior challenges with kids of any age. 
 

DS19 could see having kids sometime in the distant, distant future.

 

how do I feel about it? I don’t care one way or another. I did not have my kids with the expectation that they would “owe” me anything including grand children. 

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Well, first of all, having kids is no guarantee that any one of them will watch out for you when you are old. Sure, some kids do. It is not however a widespread phenomenon, ask anyone who works at a nursing home.

I really did not have my kids with old age in mind. I will be grateful if they are involved when I am old, but I don't have a mindset that they owe me.

Given that many parents do not move to where their adult children have employment, often the adult children are not involved with care. As someone who was raising and homeschooling teens at the same time as being utterly crushed to the point of nearly ruining my marriage and my relationship with my kids over elder care expectations, guilt trips, extended family pressures, parents making unholy stupid decisions with ramifications I cannot even describe here, and old folks with no money to pay for ANY help, but refusing to go to care facilities, I can say it is really upsetting to me when I hear people basically assume their kids should have to take care of them.

Back in the good ole days, it didn't happen either. Oh, old grandma may have lived with a kid, but food had to be grown, children had to be raised, houses repaired, jobs kept, lots of back breaking labor,  and on and on, so care kind of meant the old person laid in a bed and languished. We have a generation of young people who now have to work to 67 to be eligible for full social security benefits and the program is so broke that despite the large amount of money they are paying in, it is estimated that their full payout will only be 13-17% of the necessary income they need to survive, not thrive, just survive. Our kids have to work longer, save more, than previous generations. They face higher education costs outpacing wages by 415% - 500%, wages not kerping up with inflation, etc. They cannot afford for mom and dad to move in and expect them to quit their jobs to care for them. And congress has punted around raising that age to 70 or 72. If they don't do something about age discrimination in the work place, I don't see how on earth that can work!

Many generations had no one. My great great grandfather outlived every single one of his children. My aunt is likely to outlive both of her daughters, and her grandchildren have cognitive disabilities and cannot take care of themselves. Having kids is not a good retirement plan. My maternal uncle has buried his wife, his son, and will outlive his other son.  That said, the way America runs its healthcare and eldercare system, there are about zero good plans for people without really excellent savings because we fund never ending wars to nowhere, endless defense spending, pork barrel spending of every kind instead of taking care of our people.

So I don't have a lot of answers. Currently, the elder who is alone without savings will eventually have something medically happen, the hospital social worker will get involved, Medicare and Medicaid will kick in, and a care facility comes into play. 

I just think it is naive to assume that adult children are always in a position to do eldercare or even coordinate it. I don't think that is a good plan. But, I am willing to admit that short of being reasonably well to do if not wealthy, there aren't any really good plans. Certainly, elders could make it easier on their kids by trying to not be selfish, narcissists. But, something about aging has a tendency to turn people into grown up size preschoolers. So one doesn't always have control over it. Whatever you can do to keep mobility and mental prowess will help though.

 

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I wouldn't be surprised if all of my children had kids eventually, but it's really only a driving urge for one of them.  They're all young adults now with lots of ambition and interests, and I know they want to be very responsible about that all-important decision.  They tend to think about the future and the world a lot more than I did at their age.   I just always figured things would work out and didn't really worry about the future.  (The world does feel quite different now though than it did when I was having babies!)

I'd love to have grandchildren, but If they chose not to have any children, I'm okay with that too...  I wouldn't be sad.  We have enough going on right now to think about that too much.  I do have some really cute grand-puppies though.  🙂 

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8 hours ago, Tap said:

When people tell me they don't want to bring kids into a corrupt world or with negative climate impact....I always ask them "what if your child is the one who would have solved that problem" or "what if your child is the one to makes a huge positive change in the world? Most often, they say, they never thought of it that way! People want to instinctually protect thier (hypothetical) kids, but part of that is having children and then educating them to do better ! 

I’ve never been a fan of that game.  As it stands, none of my kids are on track to be hugely prestigious geniuses for having been homeschooled like I sometimes jokingly fantasized about. They’re just great, but normal people. Like most of us are normal. The likelihood of being an amazing hero isn’t what I would consider great enough to make a human to maybe save the world. What if it winds up being an EVIL genius???? (Also something I thought about while my kids have been middle school aged, lol.)

I feel terrible for young people facing these decisions. Not just for climate change, but plenty of other valid reasons, too.

If I were a young adult today, my sights would be set on taking care of children who need a family, whether fostering, adopting, big sistering, or whatever, rather than making more people. As someone who did birth 5 kids, it feels weird to say that, but I didn’t know then what I know and my kids know now.

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9 hours ago, barnwife said:

@BaseballandHockey I wouldn't worry about the sexism thing yet, especially if this is the only way it manifests. Kids are weird with what they latch onto as being unequal or unfair. 

I am just going to keep praying that I get a son or daughter in law with taste and common sense, and the ability to stand up to him.

 

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11 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Well, first of all, having kids is no guarantee that any one of them will watch out for you when you are old. Sure, some kids do. It is not however a widespread phenomenon, ask anyone who works at a nursing home.

I really did not have my kids with old age in mind. I will be grateful if they are involved when I am old, but I don't have a mindset that they owe me.

Given that many parents do not move to where their adult children have employment, often the adult children are not involved with care. As someone who was raising and homeschooling teens at the same time as being utterly crushed to the point of nearly ruining my marriage and my relationship with my kids over elder care expectations, guilt trips, extended family pressures, parents making unholy stupid decisions with ramifications I cannot even describe here, and old folks with no money to pay for ANY help, but refusing to go to care facilities, I can say it is really upsetting to me when I hear people basically assume their kids should have to take care of them.

Back in the good ole days, it didn't happen either. Oh, old grandma may have lived with a kid, but food had to be grown, children had to be raised, houses repaired, jobs kept, lots of back breaking labor,  and on and on, so care kind of meant the old person laid in a bed and languished. We have a generation of young people who now have to work to 67 to be eligible for full social security benefits and the program is so broke that despite the large amount of money they are paying in, it is estimated that their full payout will only be 13-17% of the necessary income they need to survive, not thrive, just survive. Our kids have to work longer, save more, than previous generations. They face higher education costs outpacing wages by 415% - 500%, wages not kerping up with inflation, etc. They cannot afford for mom and dad to move in and expect them to quit their jobs to care for them. And congress has punted around raising that age to 70 or 72. If they don't do something about age discrimination in the work place, I don't see how on earth that can work!

Many generations had no one. My great great grandfather outlived every single one of his children. My aunt is likely to outlive both of her daughters, and her grandchildren have cognitive disabilities and cannot take care of themselves. Having kids is not a good retirement plan. My maternal uncle has buried his wife, his son, and will outlive his other son.  That said, the way America runs its healthcare and eldercare system, there are about zero good plans for people without really excellent savings because we fund never ending wars to nowhere, endless defense spending, pork barrel spending of every kind instead of taking care of our people.

So I don't have a lot of answers. Currently, the elder who is alone without savings will eventually have something medically happen, the hospital social worker will get involved, Medicare and Medicaid will kick in, and a care facility comes into play. 

I just think it is naive to assume that adult children are always in a position to do eldercare or even coordinate it. I don't think that is a good plan. But, I am willing to admit that short of being reasonably well to do if not wealthy, there aren't any really good plans. Certainly, elders could make it easier on their kids by trying to not be selfish, narcissists. But, something about aging has a tendency to turn people into grown up size preschoolers. So one doesn't always have control over it. Whatever you can do to keep mobility and mental prowess will help though.

 

I agree with all this. Wholeheartedly. (Says the woman with a senior and 5th grader, homeschooling, doing hands on ADLs for a live-in dementia elder, and managing the nursing home care of two nursing home patients, one being evaluated for hospice… so I really get it! I’m exhausted, and our finances are taking a huge hit because we are paying for a lot of the care for these people, and will be paying for their final expenses as well, when that day comes.) So, yes, 100% agree with everything above.

I wasn’t thinking about elder care, when I asked about kids’ plans to have kids, though. Did that come up elsewhere in this thread? 

If that came across in my OP, it was unintentional. I want to make clear that I have ZERO expectations that my kids will care for me as an elder, and elder care was the least of my thoughts when posting. 

It was intended more along the lines of, “Wow, I just realized that my three kids very likely won’t be having kids, barring major changes. Anyone else?!” I’m fine with whatever our kids decide, just find it interesting and wondered if this is a trend.

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3 minutes ago, Spryte said:

...

I wasn’t thinking about elder care, when I asked about kids’ plans to have kids, though. Did that come up elsewhere in this thread? 

If that came across in my OP, it was unintentional. I want to make clear that I have ZERO expectations that my kids will care for me as an elder, and elder care was the least of my thoughts when posting. 

It was intended more along the lines of, “Wow, I just realized that my three kids very likely won’t be having kids, barring major changes. Anyone else?!” I’m fine with whatever our kids decide, just find it interesting and wondered if this is a trend.

I was just thinking that not having anyone to care about us in our old age is one of the reasons people feel sad for childless individuals.  And while obviously there is no guarantee, and none of us had kids for that purpose, there probably is some truth to the idea that childless people are the most alone in the end.  And I'm not talking about changing diapers and such.  I'm talking about anyone giving an actual damn if you're reasonably comfortable, safe, and peaceful.

I'm not thinking about myself, but about my kids, 70+ years from now.  If they decide to never have children, then who will they trust instead?  An attorney practice?  A church community?  I really don't know what the general thinking is.

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My bestie doesn’t have kids and may never but I know she’ll be cared for in the end, if not by her sisters (who she had a large hand in raising) then by my own kids who see her as a second mom figure. Family is more than blood.

Edited by Sneezyone
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21 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm not thinking about myself, but about my kids, 70+ years from now.  If they decide to never have children, then who will they trust instead?  An attorney practice?  A church community?  I really don't know what the general thinking is.

Just about every church I have ever been involved with has had at least 1 if not more childless elderly people that the church as a body helps care for in some way, like visiting at their residence/care home, bringing to church and social functions (if possible), that sort of thing. Not caring for them in a day-to-day way - the people all were living in places that provided some level of care. 

I used to spend time with a woman who's great-niece was her caretaker, again, not as in day-to-day as the woman was in an assisted living facility, but visited her, made sure all was going well. She arranged for people from our church to visit her even though they had no connection with us - I think that we were just the closest church to the facility so she called up and asked if we could help her in that way. Several of us visited her periodically.  

Before I had kids I had 6 nieces and nephews, and we were all quite close. (They are much older than my kids as I am the youngest in my family, plus I  married/had kids late in life. So my oldest nephew could be my kids' father.)  One of the nieces is currently listed as a "personal representative" in my documents, in the event my husband and kids are not available to take on that role if ever needed. That also does not mean she will be providing day-to-day care so basically the expectation is she would ensure I am living in as decent a place as my funds at the time will allow. I think it's possible they would visit sometimes if living near enough (and if I am pleasant to visit), or write, etc., sometimes, out of sentimental affection. But of course, maybe not. 

Edited by marbel
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