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AOPS Group Theory VS Linear Algebra through Stanford ULO


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Ok, these are obviously niche classes and I only know a couple of boardies whose kids have taken these.  My ds submitted his App to take the Linear Algebra through Stanford University Online Math and Physics, but as a back up I signed him up for the Group Theory class just in case he can't take the other one. I highly doubt he will be rejected -- it's one online class, he got a 5 in AP Calc BC, but I just like to make sure of everything. Plus of course Aops is a LOT cheaper than the other! 

Does anyone have an opinion on these classes? I think @quark's ds took Group Theory, and @Arcadia's ds took a class through Stanford? Wondering how the class operated, (we know how AOPS run, but not the ULO classes quite as much) if they enjoyed it, if it was a massive amount of work. I am just out of my league here -- I had planned for him to take an in person Linear Algebra class, but it looks like it's not running, and hasn't since Covid.  The community colleges here are still all online, so I figured if it is going to be online, might as well choose the provider. 

The Stanford course has the benefit of getting college credit if the exams are proctored, but right now I don't know how important that is to ds.  I am assuming I will just add the AOPS class to the transcript like we will be doing Clover Chemistry's Organic and Biochem class- as an extra class.  He's in brick and mortar school so the majority of the classes will be through them, and we aren't really going through their process to get classes approved for high school credit. They will only give two classes worth of credit anyway. 

Any thoughts, no matter how random? I'm just second guessing my second guesses, as usual. 

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2 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

The Stanford course has the benefit of getting college credit if the exams are proctored, but right now I don't know how important that is to ds.

My kid took the proctored exams but I don’t think you would get college credit for SPCS courses. He is using community college classes for his math credits so it wasn’t an issue. He had a weekly online lesson Zoom style. Homework was manageable and they do have recommended textbooks. 
 

ETA: 

“All students receive Stanford Continuing Studies credit.”

Edited by Arcadia
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19 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

ETA: 

“All students receive Stanford Continuing Studies credit.”

Ah, I see. If it stays merely as high school credit (and needing departmental approval) then it might make more sense to take the cheaper AOPS class in the format that he is already familiar with! I'll have to run it by him.  He doesn't seem to care either way about the content -- he's more focused on just getting adjusted to high school (since last year was pretty disjointed with only three months in person with half the amount of kids).  Right now for him math is just do the next thing.... only there seems to be too many choices of what the next thing would be.  He just knows he wants a break from Calculus before going into the next level, and he usually just depends on me to choose.  Sigh. 

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7 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

.  He just knows he wants a break from Calculus before going into the next level, and he usually just depends on me to choose.  Sigh. 

My DS16 opted for the AoPS WOOT class and the CTY self paced linear algebra class. He took a year break from calculus. What he liked about the WOOT classes were that it was kind of like sampling multiple math topics. Some took the class to improve on their AIME scores while there are some like my kid took it because they just want to know if they want to eventually be math majors.

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On 8/16/2021 at 1:54 PM, Arcadia said:

My DS16 opted for the AoPS WOOT class and the CTY self paced linear algebra class. He took a year break from calculus. What he liked about the WOOT classes were that it was kind of like sampling multiple math topics. Some took the class to improve on their AIME scores while there are some like my kid took it because they just want to know if they want to eventually be math majors.

I have to say that I don't know that WOOT is a great way to sample being a math major. You'll need to write proofs to be a math major, yes, but contests are a much more mishmash smattering of topics than actually doing a major. It's not quite the same kind of thing. 

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On 8/15/2021 at 3:45 PM, SanDiegoMom said:

Ok, these are obviously niche classes and I only know a couple of boardies whose kids have taken these.  My ds submitted his App to take the Linear Algebra through Stanford University Online Math and Physics, but as a back up I signed him up for the Group Theory class just in case he can't take the other one. I highly doubt he will be rejected -- it's one online class, he got a 5 in AP Calc BC, but I just like to make sure of everything. Plus of course Aops is a LOT cheaper than the other! 

Does anyone have an opinion on these classes? I think @quark's ds took Group Theory, and @Arcadia's ds took a class through Stanford? Wondering how the class operated, (we know how AOPS run, but not the ULO classes quite as much) if they enjoyed it, if it was a massive amount of work. I am just out of my league here -- I had planned for him to take an in person Linear Algebra class, but it looks like it's not running, and hasn't since Covid.  The community colleges here are still all online, so I figured if it is going to be online, might as well choose the provider. 

The Stanford course has the benefit of getting college credit if the exams are proctored, but right now I don't know how important that is to ds.  I am assuming I will just add the AOPS class to the transcript like we will be doing Clover Chemistry's Organic and Biochem class- as an extra class.  He's in brick and mortar school so the majority of the classes will be through them, and we aren't really going through their process to get classes approved for high school credit. They will only give two classes worth of credit anyway. 

Any thoughts, no matter how random? I'm just second guessing my second guesses, as usual. 

I just looked up the class. Is it the one on this page? 

https://ulo.stanford.edu/mathematics

The one labeled Linear Algebra (XM511)?

 

 

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3 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

yep, that's the one!  

I looked up the textbook online, and it makes it sound like the class won't be the world's most rigorous... sounds like they skim over lots of pretty important topics. 

What were you hoping for from the class? 

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11 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I looked up the textbook online, and it makes it sound like the class won't be the world's most rigorous... sounds like they skim over lots of pretty important topics. 

What were you hoping for from the class? 

I don't think exactly that my son needs the most rigorous, but he does need something to do after AP Calc now, and I just don't know what I don't know.  So I figured this class would be commensurate with any other Linear Algebra Class.  If it was a choice between this class and a community college class (which are also online) I figured this one would be more challenging than those at lease. 

He did decide, however,  to take the AOPS Group Theory class this semester.  Just kicking the can down the road until next year I suppose.  Ideally next year we will find something that is in person! 

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5 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

I don't think exactly that my son needs the most rigorous, but he does need something to do after AP Calc now, and I just don't know what I don't know.  So I figured this class would be commensurate with any other Linear Algebra Class.  If it was a choice between this class and a community college class (which are also online) I figured this one would be more challenging than those at lease. 

He did decide, however,  to take the AOPS Group Theory class this semester.  Just kicking the can down the road until next year I suppose.  Ideally next year we will find something that is in person! 

He can take in person classes math at UCSD, they offer concurrent enrollment for middle and high school students through Extension. It’s more rigorous than CC. 

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On 8/24/2021 at 11:00 AM, SDMomof3 said:

He can take in person classes math at UCSD, they offer concurrent enrollment for middle and high school students through Extension. It’s more rigorous than CC. 

I think I will look into that for the next course then.  Thank you!

 

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4 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

I think I will look into that for the next course then.  Thank you!

 

Also, UCSD has two tracks of math courses -- one for the math majors (the 31AH honors sequence for Linear Algebra, which is more proof-based) and the regular version, which is geared more towards the engineering and science majors, so that may also be something to think about, if he is coming from AoPS.  

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On 8/23/2021 at 10:10 AM, Not_a_Number said:

I have to say that I don't know that WOOT is a great way to sample being a math major. You'll need to write proofs to be a math major, yes, but contests are a much more mishmash smattering of topics than actually doing a major. It's not quite the same kind of thing. 

It feeds the curiosity. This kid was reading the math stuff in a computer science forum last night. 
If he has just done dual enrollment classes, his exposure to other topics would be more limited. 

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I went to UC Santa Barbara for my BS in Electrical Engineering and back then a 3 or higher in Calculus BC would skip 2 quarters of Applied Calculus for science and engineering. There were 6 quarters total of required Applied Calculus. All that to say if your son finds out he enjoys applied math more than theoretical (I don't really know the technical terms but in layman's terms could be math that involve actual numbers and things vs math that isn't). There is probably a little more applied Calculus for him to go through and learn. Then after that it's how to apply the calculus to do what you want to do. (That was most of what I did for my Masters in Electrical Engineering.)

Just a different opinion from someone who liked math in high school, but realized in college I only like math as a tool to make things happen.  

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On 8/16/2021 at 10:54 AM, Arcadia said:

 some like my kid took it because they just want to know if they want to eventually be math majors.

So, was the exposure to various topics through WOOT helpful in making that decision eventually? 🙂

 

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5 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

So, was the exposure to various topics through WOOT helpful in making that decision eventually? 🙂

 

This is a kid who has considered triple majoring and ended up finishing all the core courses for an associate degree in computer science or math. He has more issues deciding which CSUs and UCs to apply for than what major to declare 🤦‍♀️

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2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

This is a kid who has considered triple majoring and ended up finishing all the core courses for an associate degree in computer science or math. He has more issues deciding which CSUs and UCs to apply for than what major to declare 🤦‍♀️

well, UCB campus is just a few miles to the east of you ... :wink:

 

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32 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

well, UCB campus is just a few miles to the east of you ... :wink:

 

It is an hour drive off peak, 43 miles away. We went for a walking tour on the morning of the Tyson Foods protest. Our student ambassador kindly informed his tour group that there is a back door way to get into Sproul Hall.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/08/25/animal-rights-activists-stage-blood-spill-at-uc-berkeley-over-contract-with-tyson-foods/

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