Humor and indulge me again please

[Scarlett]

My brother has filled out the notice of intent to homeschool again this year.  Last year I asked for suggestions from y’all and thankfully no big money was spent before he folded and sent his son back to school.  
 

I know this is a classical education board.  But for the purposes of this discussion consider what we have before us.  My brother is a single dad, my nephew’s mother is dead.  My brother is disabled and not that mentally stable.  My mom, a retired public school teacher, thinks my brother doesn’t even need to buy a curriculum. That he just needs to keep his son alive and continue teaching him something.  I am leaning heavily toward that direction but I think he needs something just for accountability and to identify progress.  The school district he was/is in is not super rigorous so really it won’t take much to meet their standard.  
 

Also he will be going into 5 th grade but there is some question as to whether he actually passed 4 th grade.  This would be to him not doing his work it due to lack of ability.  
 

Knowing my brother he needs something super duper, simple. Actual books, not on line.  And very very Less the better because otherwise he is apt to get overwhelmed and throw the baby out with the bath water.  Prove is a factor as well, although I could,help,with that if I felt like it was something brother would actually carry out.  
 

Any ideas?

[ktgrok]

I know you said not online, but Teaching Textbooks for math is easy for the student to navigate and requires nothing of your brother. 

 

[catz]

Is he hoping to homeschool permanently or is this a temporary route due to covid perhaps where he hopes to send him back to school?  

[Scarlett]

Just now, ktgrok said:

I know you said not online, but Teaching Textbooks for math is easy for the student to navigate and requires nothing of your brother. 

 

I think they have good internet so as long as my brother doesn’t have to navigate it it might work.  

[ktgrok]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I think they have good internet so as long as my brother doesn’t have to navigate it it might work.  

Someone needs to do the initial set up - but that's it. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, FuzzyCatz said:

Is he hoping to homeschool permanently or is this a temporary route due to covid perhaps where he hopes to send him back to school?  

Yeah, I wish I knew.  It is such a unstable situation…..one of those where the child is loved, but wow, he just isn’t getting what he needs.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Someone needs to do the initial set up - but that's it. 

And to be clear, my brother is intelligent…..but easily frustrated and overwhelmed.  

[HomeAgain]

Seriously, I would look at one of these basic packages from Rainbow Resource.  It's literally do-the-next-thing workbooks/programs.  They're Christian, but I don't think they're heavy-handed.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Seriously, I would look at one of these basic packages from Rainbow Resource.  It's literally do-the-next-thing workbooks/programs.  They're Christian, but I don't think they're heavy-handed.

Wow, that is a great price!

[busymama7]

I really love The good and the Beautiful. Their curriculum is so easy to implement while also being rigorous. Just open and go.   If he just did math and LA through them (using placement tests as their levels are not grade level!) Then did some reading aloud and library trips for topics of interest it would be both doable and enough. 

[ktgrok]

12 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

I really love The good and the Beautiful. Their curriculum is so easy to implement while also being rigorous. Just open and go.   If he just did math and LA through them (using placement tests as their levels are not grade level!) Then did some reading aloud and library trips for topics of interest it would be both doable and enough. 

Gotta disagree - their science is lots of prep for supplies for experiments, cutting and pasting stuff, etc. And the language arts we found beyond frustrating - the spelling and grammar are all over the place level wise compared to the reading and such. 

[busymama7]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Gotta disagree - their science is lots of prep for supplies for experiments, cutting and pasting stuff, etc. And the language arts we found beyond frustrating - the spelling and grammar are all over the place level wise compared to the reading and such. 

Well I specifically didn't mention science actually.(although it's just cutting stuff out but yes there is prep)   For someone who is just doing it for now having an all in one LA program that is easy to implement might be all that works.  Any all in one program has the downside of levels not lining up exactly.  If her brother is up for piecing together a LA program from multiple places fine but that sure didn't sound like what she was asking for.   

And their math is so ridiculously better than TT that it's not comparable.    I loved their old program but just started the new one at Math 5 with my daughter and it is phenomenal. Has videos for teaching but workbooks with varied and interesting problems.  Videos have graphics and beauty in a way that is much more engaging than the TT way of just showing numbers on the screen and his voice.  We've used TT a lot for ease and it's fine but TGTB math is so much better. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by busymama7

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Wow, that is a great price!

It really is! I think this is probably your best bet, Scarlett, assuming your brother is ok with Christian content. 

[ktgrok]

10 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

Well I specifically didn't mention science actually.(although it's just cutting stuff out but yes there is prep)   For someone who is just doing it for now having an all in one LA program that is easy to implement might be all that works.  Any all in one program has the downside of levels not lining up exactly.  If her brother is up for piecing together a LA program from multiple places fine but that sure didn't sound like what she was asking for.   

And their math is so ridiculously better than TT that it's not comparable.    I loved their old program but just started the new one at Math 5 with my daughter and it is phenomenal. Has videos for teaching but workbooks with varied and interesting problems.  Videos have graphics and beauty in a way that is much more engaging than the TT way of just showing numbers on the screen and his voice.  We've used TT a lot for ease and it's fine but TGTB math is so much better. 

Do they have his level in TGTB math? I agree it is fantastic, but my understanding is still pretty teacher involved? I wanted their  math for my DD something awful but she's always ahead of what level they have. I have the old math that we used for my son one year for half a year, but it wasn't a great fit for him - he didn't enjoy the beauty or the story type stuff at all - I did though! And my DD would have, just never had her level. But I got the feeling her brother won't be very involved, would that still work?

English Lessons for a Living Education is pretty bare bones...not as rigorous but pretty hands off for the parent if he's not willing to actually teach. 

[Murphy101]

Darn. aleks.com is the best outsourced math I’ve found in 25 years and requires nothing at all of the parent.

The runner up would be modern curriculum press mathematics, phonics and spelling workout.  No muss no fuss and the teacher guides/keys are great. Very inexpensive.

I writing with ease would be good too.  It’s literally scripted. And I’d point out the booklist in it too.  But this might be too much for your brother? If so, my second far more gentle suggestion would be a program called Write with the Best. Especially if there’s concern nephew may be behind.

If the child reads well, I’d print off book lists for history and science.

Does you nephew have any hobbies or interests?

Edited August 14, 2021 by Murphy101

[Carol in Cal.]

What about K12?  I’m not usually a fan, but in this situation it might be just the thing.

 

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

And to be clear, my brother is intelligent…..but easily frustrated and overwhelmed.  

If he isn't going to homeschool permanently and just trying to make the best of it for this season of covid, CLE math and English might do and would be easy to implement if he is willing to ignore the Anabaptist emphasis, and then Khan Academy videos for a variety of topics and supplementation, Magic School Bus, PBS, literature, and just reading aloud if willing, like handing him Story of the World Volume one without the activity book, and just encourage nephew to read, read, read. PS is going to be a bit of a crapshoot because last year was epically awful, and this year is not off to an auspicious beginning, so basic math and LA with lots of interesting videos and good books might just suffice for now.

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Seriously, I would look at one of these basic packages from Rainbow Resource.  It's literally do-the-next-thing workbooks/programs.  They're Christian, but I don't think they're heavy-handed.

How have I not seen that before? I need to buy for a 5th grader and a 7th grader and there’s all the stuff I had planned to get but I’m nervous about spending that kind of money before husband gets a job. Hmm. I may have to look closer at those!

20 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

It really is! I think this is probably your best bet, Scarlett, assuming your brother is ok with Christian content. 

They have secular ones too!

[Murphy101]

Scarlett ya might need to note in bold or the subject line or something that you do NOT think anything based online will work?  I’m seeing many suggestions that are either based online or need online support (like tg&tb).

[busymama7]

33 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Do they have his level in TGTB math? I agree it is fantastic, but my understanding is still pretty teacher involved? I wanted their  math for my DD something awful but she's always ahead of what level they have. I have the old math that we used for my son one year for half a year, but it wasn't a great fit for him - he didn't enjoy the beauty or the story type stuff at all - I did though! And my DD would have, just never had her level. But I got the feeling her brother won't be very involved, would that still work?

English Lessons for a Living Education is pretty bare bones...not as rigorous but pretty hands off for the parent if he's not willing to actually teach. 

The new math goes up to math 5 which is approx 5th grade although it is a bit advanced.  Math 4 and 5 are taught by video and then they work in the workbook. It would be very independent for her brother if the child places at least into 4.  If places lower it is scripted and easy to teach. I mean if the kids don't go to school, someone has to teach them.  Doing it with an easy to implement program makes it possible. I'm a long time homeschooler (18 years) and while I know how to use different programs I used with my older kids, having something do simple to open and do is such a relief at this stage when I'm also juggling young adults, weddings and grand babies.  

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, busymama7 said:

The new math goes up to math 5 which is approx 5th grade although it is a bit advanced.  Math 4 and 5 are taught by video and then they work in the workbook. It would be very independent for her brother if the child places at least into 4.  If places lower it is scripted and easy to teach. I mean if the kids don't go to school, someone has to teach them.  Doing it with an easy to implement program makes it possible. I'm a long time homeschooler (18 years) and while I know how to use different programs I used with my older kids, having something do simple to open and do is such a relief at this stage when I'm also juggling young adults, weddings and grand babies.  

Gotcha, DD is always a year ahead, sigh. She's in 6th this year, and does very well in math, so I can't see putting her back a year just to use such a neat program, you know? Bugger. I was sort of hoping I remembered wrong and their math 6 was out. 

[busymama7]

14 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Scarlett ya might need to note in bold or the subject line or something that you do NOT think anything based online will work?  I’m seeing many suggestions that are either based online or need online support (like tg&tb).

The LA for TGTB is completely offline.  The math for 4 and 5 have videos that are exceptionally well done but are not required. There is a lesson in the book the child can read or the parent can teach from if desired.   I've been so pleased with it for my daughter. It's just 8 or so minutes and then she works in the book. It's not anything like an online program.  It's more like math u see but with the videos on the web instead of disk.  

 

[busymama7]

7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Gotcha, DD is always a year ahead, sigh. She's in 6th this year, and does very well in math, so I can't see putting her back a year just to use such a neat program, you know? Bugger. I was sort of hoping I remembered wrong and their math 6 was out. 

Yeah I kinda had the same issue although for my daughter it is a good fit ability wise. But I don't know that the next level will be out in time and I may need to switch then which I'm super sad about.  Only 2 weeks in and I am just so super impressed. 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

How have I not seen that before? 

They have secular ones too!

A secular version?!!!! I am super excited. thank you everyone, you have always been so helpful. 
 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

What about K12?  I’m not usually a fan, but in this situation it might be just the thing.

 

Just curious what you dislike about k 12?

[ktgrok]

53 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

Yeah I kinda had the same issue although for my daughter it is a good fit ability wise. But I don't know that the next level will be out in time and I may need to switch then which I'm super sad about.  Only 2 weeks in and I am just so super impressed. 

I'll look at the placement test, but she did TT level 6 last year as a 5th grader and got 100%. Only had to retry a question a few times all year. She'd be doing TT 7 this year. 

[Carol in Cal.]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Just curious what you dislike about k 12?

It’s all on the computer.  Endless computer time.  Tracking of the hours you’re logged in in many cases.  Reading on the computer.  But, it’s complete and it’s accredited and it’s subsidize by local districts often, and it’s decent quality.

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

The LA for TGTB is completely offline.  The math for 4 and 5 have videos that are exceptionally well done but are not required. There is a lesson in the book the child can read or the parent can teach from if desired.   I've been so pleased with it for my daughter. It's just 8 or so minutes and then she works in the book. It's not anything like an online program.  It's more like math u see but with the videos on the web instead of disk.  

I have grade 3 and 5 a try and I hear what you are saying and just disagree it matters. If *I’m* buying a program - I think it’s frustrating to be told it’s not online except for…. Because that means it has an online component.  And it seems to me either the components are important or they wouldn’t bother with them.  I generally hate programs that have a computer component. The internet goes down - no school work. Need to travel or have a busy day in the van? No school work. Have an old computer that won’t update? No school work. Provider of curriculum doesn’t keep the links or website current? Not doing that then. Every time I’ve bought something with an online component it has eventually been a frustration. With the very notable exception of aleks.com for algebra and higher math for the past 8 years I’ve been using it for my kids after they finish Lial’s BCM.

People can say what they want about the wonders of technology and in many ways I’ll agree with them. But so far nothing beats a well done book in the hand over whatever in the cloud somewhere. Obviously that is MY experience. YMMV.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Murphy101

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

It’s all on the computer.  Endless computer time.  Tracking of the hours you’re logged in in many cases.  Reading on the computer.  But, it’s complete and it’s accredited and it’s subsidize by local districts often, and it’s decent quality.

Oh OK. You can buy K-12 out right but it’s pretty expensive. And as I said he is in no position to do anything that requires him answering to the authorities or jumping through hoops at all, so there’s no way I would recommend him to do the K 12/virtual through the state Route. 
FTR my son did K 12 from one through 12. In fifth grade it absolutely was not all online. Maybe things have changed since then, I don’t know

[Shoeless]

I really like the K12 textbook for history. I think it's called The Human Odyssey or something like that. It was really well done. 

We used MCP for math and spelling for awhile. The only thing I didn't like was that the paper in the workbooks was kind of cheap and tore easily! 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I really like the K12 textbook for history. I think it's called The Human Odyssey or something like that. It was really well done. 

We used MCP for math and spelling for awhile. The only thing I didn't like was that the paper in the workbooks was kind of cheap and tore easily! 

When ds was doing K12, they were using SWB’s SOTW for grades k-3. I don’t remember The Human Odyssey…but it has been a while….ds is starting his 4 th year of engineering school on Monday.  

[elegantlion]

Core Knowledge has free downloable curriculum. Here's the link to the grade 5. I have no idea how much needs to be done on the computer or how much printing might be necessary. 

[Murphy101]

Oh some other all in a box secular options but I don’t know how affordable your brother would find them. 

Calvert

and

Oak Meadow

Both have been around a very long time.  Iirc their 5th grade programs are not at all teacher intensive.  There’s some projects but they are low budget and low stress. 

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

I have grade 3 and 5 a try and I hear what you are saying and just disagree it matters. If *I’m* buying a program - I think it’s frustrating to be told it’s not online except for…. Because that means it has an online component.  And it seems to me either the components are important or they wouldn’t bother with them.  I generally hate programs that have a computer component. The internet goes down - no school work. Need to travel or have a busy day in the van? No school work. Have an old computer that won’t update? No school work. Provider of curriculum doesn’t keep the links or website current? Not doing that then. Every time I’ve bought something with an online component it has eventually been a frustration. With the very notable exception of aleks.com for algebra and higher math for the past 8 years I’ve been using it for my kids after they finish Lial’s BCM.

People can say what they want about the wonders of technology and in many ways I’ll agree with them. But so far nothing beats a well done book in the hand over whatever in the cloud somewhere. Obviously that is MY experience. YMMV.

I totally understand that frustration with technology. I had to accept both that my energy did not stretch to teaching 6-7 students math daily AND that my kids were not ones who could teach themselves math from a textbook. Incidentally, I did teach myself math from a book when I got too far ahead from my class and skipped  some math levels so that was hard to accept. But my kids aren't those kids.  Having math instruction is so helpful to me.   Back when we did math u see, the disks occasionally went missing or our dvd player went out etc but my family just needs some help with math so it's been an ok trade off. 

Your post is confusing though because it sounds like you tried TGTB without knowing there were videos available for the math instruction if wanted and are bothered by that. But that new math has only been out for 2 weeks and they didn't previously have math 5 at all.  The old math only went up to 4 and was exclusively teacher led (I did levels K-2 and it was AMAZING)   If you mean LA, the only thing my kids have ever done online is research and that can be done from an encyclopedia or something. LA at those levels does not have an online component.  History does but I always felt that was well described on the site.  

Sorry for the derail. Hopefully the OP can find a program that will work for her brother.   ☺️

[Carol in Cal.]

4 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Oh some other all in a box secular options but I don’t know how affordable your brother would find them. 

Calvert

and

Oak Meadow

Both have been around a very long time.  Iirc their 5th grade programs are not at all teacher intensive.  There’s some projects but they are low budget and low stress. 

Oak Meadow is beautiful but it is very expensive and it is basically Waldorf homeschooling.  It has an art emphasis that I love but could not possibly pull off.  I’ve heard that Calvert is very grab and go, and it’s been around for a long time.  It’s pretty traditional.  I think if you want secular it’s definitely worth a look.  Abeka would be great if you don’t need it to be secular.

[Murphy101]

1 minute ago, busymama7 said:

Your post is confusing though because it sounds like you tried TGTB without knowing there were videos available for the math instruction if wanted and are bothered by that. But that new math has only been out for 2 weeks and they didn't previously have math 5 at all.  The old math only went up to 4 and was exclusively teacher led (I did levels K-2 and it was AMAZING)   If you mean LA, the only thing my kids have ever done online is research and that can be done from an encyclopedia or something. LA at those levels does not have an online component.  History does but I always felt that was well described on the site .   ☺️

Full disclosure.  I’d rather break a leg than change my math program. lol So I did not use H&M math. I used the la, science and history. Like Katie in a previous post, I loved the concept and beauty of the program but get it was no where near cohesive enough and it lacked sticking power with my kids. I’d hoped it would make my life easier but really it just meant I called an entire semester a wash in those subjects. 

[Murphy101]

6 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Oak Meadow is beautiful but it is very expensive and it is basically Waldorf homeschooling.  It has an art emphasis that I love but could not possibly pull off.  I’ve heard that Calvert is very grab and go, and it’s been around for a long time.  It’s pretty traditional.  I think if you want secular it’s definitely worth a look.  Abeka would be great if you don’t need it to be secular.

If it was k-4 then I’d agree the art component of oak meadow would be too much for him. But 5th grade and up is not nearly as art heavy. Many would argue its far more traditional with some Waldorf elements starting in 5th grade. I  have 4th grade oak meadow and 5th grade oak meadow. Seriously. The art component factor drops to negligible in 5th grade. It is expensive though, especially if you don’t buy used. 

[Shoeless]

33 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

When ds was doing K12, they were using SWB’s SOTW for grades k-3. I don’t remember The Human Odyssey…but it has been a while….ds is starting his 4 th year of engineering school on Monday.  

The Human Odyssey is middle school level. I picked up a copy from someone on TWTM and was pleasantly surprised at how nice it was. I kind of want to see some of the other textbooks from the program now. 

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

The Human Odyssey is middle school level. I picked up a copy from someone on TWTM and was pleasantly surprised at how nice it was. I kind of want to see some of the other textbooks from the program now. 

It was a great curriculum for ds.  They let him skip a math grade and then later another math and a science grade…….I never had a complaint about the curriculum….but we used the state/virtual version and the red tape got pretty tiring. 
 

My best friend used K12 independently and it was wonderful. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Scarlett