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Mask studies please


TexasProud
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1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Thank you. I am particularly looking for real life studies, rather than laboratory. 

The major issue with Zoe studies is that the participants choose to use the app, so it's not a random group. These findings seem to me to have some value, but I'm not an expert.

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I'm not sure that there are real life studies - too hard to know if people are actually wearing them all the time, wearing them properly, etc. 

Honestly, there are no studies that I know of saying you should cover your mouth when you cough, or not wipe your boogers on someone, but we know it makes sense. Same concept with masks. Anyone who already believes in using a tissue to blow their nose, or to cover their cough, knows why masks work, and should stop pretending otherwise. 

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Just now, ktgrok said:

I'm not sure that there are real life studies - too hard to know if people are actually wearing them all the time, wearing them properly, etc. 

Honestly, there are no studies that I know of saying you should cover your mouth when you cough, or not wipe your boogers on someone, but we know it makes sense. Same concept with masks. Anyone who already believes in using a tissue to blow their nose, or to cover their cough, knows why masks work, and should stop pretending otherwise. 

My husband is a doctor, not anti mask. But does say they are much more useful against bacteria than virus.  He also thinks that the way the majority of the people wear them make them useless.  He thinks our governor  is an idiot, but at the same time is saying they are not a magic bullet.  He said he would like to see good studies to prove real world effectiveness. He just isn’t sure how truly helpful they are and thinks they give a false sense of security.  Not being in crowded environments would be better. 

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2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

My husband is a doctor, not anti mask. But does say they are much more useful against bacteria than virus.  He also thinks that the way the majority of the people wear them make them useless.  He thinks our governor  is an idiot, but at the same time is saying they are not a magic bullet.  He said he would like to see good studies to prove real world effectiveness. He just isn’t sure how truly helpful they are and thinks they give a false sense of security.  Not being in crowded environments would be better. 

Of course they are not a magic bullet. Of course wearing them properly would be better. Of course not being in a crowded environment would be better. It’s all about layers of protection. Vaccine, good masks worn properly, social distancing, etc.

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6 minutes ago, Frances said:

Of course they are not a magic bullet. Of course wearing them properly would be better. Of course not being in a crowded environment would be better. It’s all about layers of protection. Vaccine, good masks worn properly, social distancing, etc.

Sorry. I just want to win this argument and he wants me to give him scientific studies to back up my claim and I could have sworn some boardies had some. But maybe I was just making up facts, I don't know. I keep using you guys as facts and he wants scientific data. 🙂

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I would also like studies on children. He thinks I am too gloom and doom. Not everyone who gets it will die, only the unlucky number. Problem is, he says, you do not know if you will be the unlucky one.  He just thinks I am way too gloom and doom.  We distance. Wear masks. Are vaccinated. Our community, particularly young people, not so much.  I think we are going to have deaths this year in elementary. He disagrees. I think it will be bad. He disagrees. I want facts to back up my claims.

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17 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

My husband is a doctor, not anti mask. But does say they are much more useful against bacteria than virus.  He also thinks that the way the majority of the people wear them make them useless.  He thinks our governor  is an idiot, but at the same time is saying they are not a magic bullet.  He said he would like to see good studies to prove real world effectiveness. He just isn’t sure how truly helpful they are and thinks they give a false sense of security.  Not being in crowded environments would be better. 

Well, yeah. He's right. Better to not be in a crowded place, for sure! But if you ARE going to be in a crowded place, a mask is better than not masking. Because if nothing else, it catches droplets. Wont' stop all transmission but lowers how much is out there. I mean, would he rather someone sneeze on him with our without them both wearing. a mask? If the answer is with wearing masks, then he understands why we should wear them. Cause sometimes people sneeze. (for other reasons too, but even if that was the ONLY thing they helped with, they'd be worth it, since you can't always predict a sneeze or cough!)

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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Well, yeah. He's right. Better to not be in a crowded place, for sure! But if you ARE going to be in a crowded place, a mask is better than not masking. Because if nothing else, it catches droplets. Wont' stop all transmission but lowers how much is out there. I mean, would he rather someone sneeze on him with our without them both wearing. a mask? If the answer is with wearing masks, then he understands why we should wear them. Cause sometimes people sneeze. (for other reasons too, but even if that was the ONLY thing they helped with, they'd be worth it, since you can't always predict a sneeze or cough!)

No.. I am sorry. I guess I am not making myself clear.   He knows this.  He just thinks I am being a negative nelly.  We have just had MANY young people we know get it. Our youth camp had 6 out of 60 get it.  The 6 that got it would not be considered serious, but 2 or 3 of them could not get out of bed for a week. ( One a star athlete in tip top shape.) I know a worship leader who is on a vent with Covid and had they had to take the 2 1/2 pound baby. Both have Covid.  Don't know about immunization status, not that it matters. Our 25yo drummer died from Covid.  Another woman I know is pregnant and has it. Probably got it from her 4yo. They have no clue where they got it as they have been buttoned down. Immunized.  BUT I AM BEING NEGATIVE.  No, not every person that gets Covid is going to die, but more are than are necessary.  It is serious for our community and will be worse when school starts next week.  By the time I get my stats, it will be too late. Too many more young people will be dead.

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The last article I read on this (and I wish I could find the link, sorry) was so funny, talking both sides, basically saying they work when they work and don't when they don't. And that's not too rocket sciency to understand. 

Fwiw, the most interesting real world example we have right now of transmission in the completely unmasked is on the cruise ships like the carnival vista. Last I read, the majority if the cases (10 of 27, the biggest concentration) were in the CASINO. So think about the dynamic there vs. a bar, dining room, people passing in the halls, etc. etc. 

So Carnival has now instituted some voluntary/mandatory situational indoor masking rules (best as I can tell from watching youtube, haha). The tighter the situation, the more they want the people masked. 

I'm with op's dh that for more spaced, well ventilated areas, it's just really moot and that most of what is being worn by the general public is still crap worthless. Some of the promasking stuff like here https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf  makes nuances on situations rather than blanket recommendations of masks all the time.

Apparently this is more about emotions or politics than science, because I see people VOLUNTARILY wearing a mask in my state and then showing up with it half on, half off, pitiful worthless materials, on and on. 

29 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

thinks they give a false sense of security

Absolutely. 

 

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I know. It is just that we have 13 ICU beds left.  School starts next week. No masks. No social distancing. No contract tracing. You do not have to let school know, nor does school have to let parents know if there has been a positive case in the classroom.  What will our hospitalizations look like in a month? But I am too negative. 

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37 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Honestly, there are no studies that I know of saying you should cover your mouth when you cough, or not wipe your boogers on someone, but we know it makes sense.

Well... maybe.  What we consider obvious common sense behaviors may actually be questionable when talking about something like influenza.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARvru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24010919/

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19 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I just want to win this argument

We have so much water under the bridge I don't see the point in arguing it. Maybe look for common ground, where/when he thinks they're actually useful and when you think they're warranted.

8 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

2 or 3 of them could not get out of bed for a week.

I think that's pretty normal.

10 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

By the time I get my stats, it will be too late. Too many more young people will be dead.

What are you trying to make happen? You're wanting an argument for why you should compel someone in your house to wear masks? 

12 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

BUT I AM BEING NEGATIVE. 

You know this, but if this is actually getting the point of overwhelming, he could write you a scrip. Is your dh your doctor? I YELLED at my doctor to get something to get me back to rational. Maybe you should yell at him.

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Aaron Collins is a mechanical engineer who wrote his master’s thesis on aerosols who set up a home aerosol lab to test filtering on masks off the shelf. He has a YouTube channel and somewhere he has a Google doc with his spreadsheet results, but I am not finding the link offhand.

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3 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

What will our hospitalizations look like in a month? But I am too negative. 

You sound justifiably worried. Is your state doing monoclonal antibody therapy clinics? De Santis is opening them around Florida to get the numbers down. He's trying to eliminate barriers to getting the therapy so anyone high risk per the criteria and even people not high risk could go directly to a clinic as soon as positive and get the therapy.

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1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

 

What are you trying to make happen? You're wanting an argument for why you should compel someone in your house to wear masks? 

 

No, he already does. I want him to agree with me that this is really bad. He doesn't think it is. He thinks most people will get it and get a cold. Only a few unlucky ones will get it badly.  As I said, he/we do not go to crowded places, wear masks, wash our hands, got immunized. This is an academic argument. 

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47 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No, he already does. I want him to agree with me that this is really bad. He doesn't think it is. He thinks most people will get it and get a cold. Only a few unlucky ones will get it badly.  As I said, he/we do not go to crowded places, wear masks, wash our hands, got immunized. This is an academic argument. 

If a doctor doesn’t understand the seriousness and very real risks of delta by now, I doubt there’s any “convincing” him. Maybe when he starts having patients die on him? Maybe not. Some people are astonishingly determined to live in an alternate universe.

I’d suggest just not engaging with him about it, if possible. The deniers are pretty baked in their delusions at this point.

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7 minutes ago, MEmama said:

If a doctor doesn’t understand the seriousness and very real risks of delta by now, I doubt there’s any “convincing” him. Maybe when he starts having patients die on him? Maybe not. Some people are astonishingly determined to live in an alternate universe.

I’d suggest just not engaging with him about it, if possible. The deniers are pretty baked in their delusions at this point.

I would not call him a denier, but I think he is too influenced by a certain news station, even though he admits it is biased. He is no longer practicing. But all of his doctor friends that had it are fine. Until this latest delta stuff, everyone we know that has gotten it has had an extremely mild case. He says even if it is as bad as I say it is, there isn't anything we can do that we are not already doing. We leave for Colorado in a week. When we return in 3 weeks, I am seriously worried we will have a lot of friends with kids hospitalized IF they have room and maybe some kids will have died that we know.  But hey, let's just go have fun and not worry about it. 

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1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

I would not call him a denier, but I think he is too influenced by a certain news station, even though he admits it is biased. He is no longer practicing. But all of his doctor friends that had it are fine. Until this latest delta stuff, everyone we know that has gotten it has had an extremely mild case. He says even if it is as bad as I say it is, there isn't anything we can do that we are not already doing. We leave for Colorado in a week. When we return in 3 weeks, I am seriously worried we will have a lot of friends with kids hospitalized IF they have room and maybe some kids will have died that we know.  But hey, let's just go have fun and not worry about it. 

We’ll, if you are both vaccinated, you mask, don’t go out much, keep distance as possible and so forth…that kinda is all you can do. So in a way he isn’t wrong—assuming ALL those behaviors are true. Is it possible his general tone about is not as —idk the right word but we are all feeling it: emotional, concerned, passionate, scared —because of his profession? As a (former) doctor he’s seen a lot, perhaps his perception is simply different than yours? 
 

I think it’s very possible and healthy for you to go to Colorado. Assuming most of your activities are outdoors, you don’t eat in restaurants, you distance appropriately…it can be quite safe and good for your mental health. We all need a break and I’m glad you have the opportunity to get one. Taking a trip certainly isn’t callous or insensitive or pretending like COVID isnt happening. Learning to live our lives appropriately and within the current restrictions is beneficial; it doesn’t help anyone to just lock away and worry. You know? 

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Just now, MEmama said:

We’ll, if you are both vaccinated, you mask, don’t go out much, keep distance as possible and so forth…that kinda is all you can do. So in a way he isn’t wrong—assuming ALL those behaviors are true. Is it possible his general tone about is not as —idk the right word but we are all feeling it: emotional, concerned, passionate, scared —because of his profession? As a (former) doctor he’s seen a lot, perhaps his perception is simply different than yours? 
 

I think it’s very possible and healthy for you to go to Colorado. Assuming most of your activities are outdoors, you don’t eat in restaurants, you distance appropriately…it can be quite safe and good for your mental health. We all need a break and I’m glad you have the opportunity to get one. Taking a trip certainly isn’t callous or insensitive or pretending like COVID isnt happening. Learning to live our lives appropriately and within the current restrictions is beneficial; it doesn’t help anyone to just lock away and worry. You know? 

We will be in our RV, completely outside and we hike early and typically not in crowds at all, only seeing a few people on a trail.  Yes, to him, death is a part of life.  He says he cannot make people do the right thing. People will die. They have always died from their choices and caused others to die by their choices. A fact of life. One I cannot accept. 

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I have not vetted these studies myself, but a friend shared this link which goes to a list of 70 studies showing mask efficacy. 

Maybe something here will help. 

https://threader.app/thread/1279144399897866248

Also, if he accepts anecdotal/real world data, have him search the recent articles on Covid hospitalizations in Children's Hospitals. There have been many articles on it in the last week or two. 

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26 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

We will be in our RV, completely outside and we hike early and typically not in crowds at all, only seeing a few people on a trail.  Yes, to him, death is a part of life.  He says he cannot make people do the right thing. People will die. They have always died from their choices and caused others to die by their choices. A fact of life. One I cannot accept. 

That sounds like the ideal COVID friendly vacation.

Enjoy yourself!

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2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

I would not call him a denier, but I think he is too influenced by a certain news station, even though he admits it is biased. He is no longer practicing. But all of his doctor friends that had it are fine. Until this latest delta stuff, everyone we know that has gotten it has had an extremely mild case. He says even if it is as bad as I say it is, there isn't anything we can do that we are not already doing. We leave for Colorado in a week. When we return in 3 weeks, I am seriously worried we will have a lot of friends with kids hospitalized IF they have room and maybe some kids will have died that we know.  But hey, let's just go have fun and not worry about it. 

Except for your husband supporting a news source that is biased and adding to polarization in the country, it sounds like both of you are doing everything possible to protect yourselves and others during the pandemic. Enjoy your trip!

Edited by Frances
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33 minutes ago, TheReader said:

I have not vetted these studies myself, but a friend shared this link which goes to a list of 70 studies showing mask efficacy. 

Maybe something here will help. 

https://threader.app/thread/1279144399897866248

Also, if he accepts anecdotal/real world data, have him search the recent articles on Covid hospitalizations in Children's Hospitals. There have been many articles on it in the last week or two. 

Thank you, though we are currently not speaking or rather avoiding this subject, so we shall see if I end up showing it to him. Now worth winning I suppose. He isn't happy with me right now. 

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55 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

We will be in our RV, completely outside and we hike early and typically not in crowds at all, only seeing a few people on a trail.  Yes, to him, death is a part of life.  He says he cannot make people do the right thing. People will die. They have always died from their choices and caused others to die by their choices. A fact of life. One I cannot accept. 

Well, he sounds a bit like my DH. It may be a guy thing. It sounds like you don't disagree on the facts, just how emotional to get over them? If so, that's not really a conscious decision anyway - I get very upset and emotional, my DH doesn't, even though we totally agree on the facts. They just upset me more. But I'm more empathetic/emotional and he is good at compartmentalizing things he doesn't want to think about. 

I will say, gently, that worrying won't make it safer nor will it save lives, so go ahead and enjoy your vacation. I'm betting your husband is more stressed than you realize but processes it differently, and he likely needs the get away too. 

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2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Until this latest delta stuff, everyone we know that has gotten it has had an extremely mild case. He says even if it is as bad as I say it is, there isn't anything we can do that we are not already doing. We leave for Colorado in a week. When we return in 3 weeks, I am seriously worried we will have a lot of friends with kids hospitalized IF they have room and maybe some kids will have died that we know.  But hey, let's just go have fun and not worry about it. 

He is right. You can not do anything about others around you by worrying. You are doing above and beyond what others in your area are doing. Your vacation sounds like an ideal one for Covid times!

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I really think what you want is acknowledgement that your concern is valid. And you can't get that from him, which is frustrating. I'm sorry. 

If it helps, I think your concern is valid. I wish I lived nearby so we could get together (outdoors!) and talk. Hugs. 

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4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

You sound justifiably worried. Is your state doing monoclonal antibody therapy clinics? De Santis is opening them around Florida to get the numbers down. He's trying to eliminate barriers to getting the therapy so anyone high risk per the criteria and even people not high risk could go directly to a clinic as soon as positive and get the therapy.

I'm watching to see how this will work.  MAT require medical personnel, and takes 90-120 minutes per patient.  Florida gave about 3,300 doses last week.  It will never be something everyone can just walk in and get, but I do hope it will be more available to those that are high risk.

OP, enjoy your vacation. Sadly, there is only so much we as individuals can do when it comes to covid.

Edited by melmichigan
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1 hour ago, melmichigan said:

I'm watching to see how this will work.  MAT require medical personnel, and takes 90-120 minutes per patient.  Florida gave about 3,300 doses last week.  It will never be something everyone can just walk in and get, but I do hope it will be more available to those that are high risk.

3,300 doses given last week compared to an average of nearly 1.5K per DAY hospitalized last week. 

It's a drop in the bucket. 

Edited by ktgrok
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4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

You sound justifiably worried. Is your state doing monoclonal antibody therapy clinics? De Santis is opening them around Florida to get the numbers down. He's trying to eliminate barriers to getting the therapy so anyone high risk per the criteria and even people not high risk could go directly to a clinic as soon as positive and get the therapy.

I doubt insurance is going to cover the cost for someone who is not at high risk. And likely many people don’t know they are at high risk due to lack of regular preventive care. So while it is likely to help some people, still the best bet for anyone who can is to get the vaccine. Compared to hospitalization or monoclonal antibody therapy, it is far more cost effective and only takes a few minutes for a healthcare provider to administer. And everyone wearing masks is also way cheaper and puts less stress on our healthcare system.

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50 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

3,300 doses given last week compared to an average of nearly 15K per DAY hospitalized last week. 

It's a drop in the bucket. 

I completely agree that Florida is a mess, but I think you meant around 1500/day, not 15 thousand.  I am assuming you were speaking about Florida as the vaccinated number was referring to Florida.  It is the highest rate of Covid admissions in the nation.  

"In the past week, Florida has averaged 1,525 adult hospitalizations a day, and 35 daily pediatric hospitalizations. Both are the highest per capita rate in the nation, according to Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the University of South Florida."

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb

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5 minutes ago, mjbucks1 said:

I completely agree that Florida is a mess, but I think you meant around 1500/day, not 15 thousand.  I am assuming you were speaking about Florida as the vaccinated number was referring to Florida.  It is the highest rate of Covid admissions in the nation.  

"In the past week, Florida has averaged 1,525 adult hospitalizations a day, and 35 daily pediatric hospitalizations. Both are the highest per capita rate in the nation, according to Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the University of South Florida."

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb

 

Yes! there was supposed to be a decimal point, lol. New keyboard and keyboard cover has thrown off my typing!

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On the CDC website, there used to be an article about how ineffective masks are. I cannot find it now. 
 

I think the only reason illnesses might go down with mask use is the other things a mask user is more likely to do and not do when wearing a mask. When a person wears a mask, they’re less likely to touch their face and they’re less likely to hang on someone. they are more likely to wash their hands and be mindful of the things that they need to do to not spread disease. and on the occasion that they would sneeze or cough, it actually does get caught into the mask. but I know that the virus can get through masks. If I can smell perfume on people while I’m wearing mask then I can definitely get the virus through the mask. and every single person I have known to get a serious case of Covid were people who were only around others while wearing masks.

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9 hours ago, TexasProud said:

My husband is a doctor, not anti mask. But does say they are much more useful against bacteria than virus.  He also thinks that the way the majority of the people wear them make them useless.  He thinks our governor  is an idiot, but at the same time is saying they are not a magic bullet.  He said he would like to see good studies to prove real world effectiveness. He just isn’t sure how truly helpful they are and thinks they give a false sense of security.  Not being in crowded environments would be better. 

Ask any teacher who was teaching in person all last year in a fully masked building if masks work. Literally no illnesses spread through our buildings last year. No strep, influenza, norovirus, colds, bronchitis, etc. 

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Here's a pretty good, if old, article: 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

I think generically, we don't have great studies of how well they work for INDIVIDUALS. There are way too many confounding factors for that. The easiest thing for us to study, as the article above says, is either how well they work at containing droplets in laboratory settings, or how well they were on a community-wide level. Once you're talking about the community-wide level, you stop getting a great sense of how much your masks protects YOU -- we kind of expect that other people's masks protect us more than our masks protect us, frankly. 

I'll also note that while I'm convinced by the masking evidence, I've never generally won arguments with evidence if people weren't all that interested. So whether your DH uses the evidence or simply nitpicks it to death doesn't depend on the quality of the evidence: it depends on how open to the evidence he is. Frankly, the fact that he hasn't looked into this himself doesn't bode super well. 

Finally, I agree with him that avoiding crowds is much more effective than masking. 

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13 minutes ago, Pippen said:

Ask any teacher who was teaching in person all last year in a fully masked building if masks work. Literally no illnesses spread through our buildings last year. No strep, influenza, norovirus, colds, bronchitis, etc. 

Same for my dental office. They loved being healthy so much that they are all going to wear masks at work indefinitely.

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11 hours ago, PeterPan said:

.Apparently this is more about emotions or politics than science, because I see people VOLUNTARILY wearing a mask in my state and then showing up with it half on, half off, pitiful worthless materials, on and on. 

That has nothing to do with this being about emotions and not science, that has to do with not everyone doing things the way they should, often due to lack of information or understanding. Do we say seatbelts don’t work because some people put them under their arm or behind their shoulder?

11 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Aaron Collins is a mechanical engineer who wrote his master’s thesis on aerosols who set up a home aerosol lab to test filtering on masks off the shelf. He has a YouTube channel and somewhere he has a Google doc with his spreadsheet results, but I am not finding the link offhand.

Here’s his spreadsheet:

https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbnk0Vm5DVG5XT0hYVVRjenBmeXlOa2xhRXVqQXxBQ3Jtc0tuNHkyOHpoeG1CU2tweG9rZ2VWM2V2RGdMYjdDWk0tRE14UDB3TkRhemFjMjcyZ1UzazN6RnlPbDBKVWNtSDVQSkpWa2dFVjZHTGtqQnY4YWo0WFhwalRsbFkyVVQxZ1hvWjJLQWM4T21qeDlVblFQWQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fspreadsheets%2Fd%2F1M0mdNLpTWEGcluK6hh5LjjcFixwmOG853Ff45d3O-L0%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing
 

He just updated tonight with more kids’ masks he just tested. 

3 hours ago, Janeway said:

 

I think the only reason illnesses might go down with mask use is the other things a mask user is more likely to do and not do when wearing a mask. When a person wears a mask, they’re less likely to touch their face and they’re less likely to hang on someone. they are more likely to wash their hands and be mindful of the things that they need to do to not spread disease. and on the occasion that they would sneeze or cough, it actually does get caught into the mask. but I know that the virus can get through masks. If I can smell perfume on people while I’m wearing mask then I can definitely get the virus through the mask. and every single person I have known to get a serious case of Covid were people who were only around others while wearing masks.

Nevermind. 
 

eta: OP, the one thing I agree with your dh on is you’re probably over catastrophizing about kids. Yes, it’s bad. Yes, kids are going to continue to be hospitalized and die and I expect it’s going to get worse and it doesn’t have to be this way and it’s horrible. However, I don’t think it’s likely that you’re going to know multiple kids who die of Covid. It seems more likely you won’t know any. That doesn’t make it any less terrible, it’s just the odds are probably not as bad for you personally as you are thinking they are. 

Edited by KSera
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6 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Our school had a mask mandate last year. Couple of hundred students in the same building, passing each other in hallways. 
 

All covid cases were traced to sports transportation and family members contracting it outside of school. 
 

There were ZERO cases of flu. The prior year many students were out for both Flu A & B. 
 

Is this the kind of “study” you are looking for? I wouldn’t use it as ammunition in an argument (except to point it out to the folks actually at our school, who seem to have overlooked it in this year’s decision process 🙄).

Similarly at the University where I  work - masks were required in university buildings. The only cases were from social situations in illicit unmasked locations- private houses, etc.

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9 hours ago, TexasProud said:

We will be in our RV, completely outside and we hike early and typically not in crowds at all, only seeing a few people on a trail.  Yes, to him, death is a part of life.  He says he cannot make people do the right thing. People will die. They have always died from their choices and caused others to die by their choices. A fact of life. One I cannot accept. 

I think he has dealt with this his whole life and has learned to accept it. It sounds like he is trying to do reasonable things. I'm not sure how you can't accept it. What else can you do. 

We should do our best to be helpful but ultimately we aren't gods nor are we able to control others. 

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13 hours ago, Frances said:

Of course they are not a magic bullet. Of course wearing them properly would be better. Of course not being in a crowded environment would be better. It’s all about layers of protection. Vaccine, good masks worn properly, social distancing, etc.

I agree completely.  The problem is that most people are living as if one of these is the magic bullet.  “I’m vaccinated so I don’t have to wear a mask or distance.” Or “as long as we both wear masks…”

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8 hours ago, Janeway said:

On the CDC website, there used to be an article about how ineffective masks are. I cannot find it now. 
 

I think the only reason illnesses might go down with mask use is the other things a mask user is more likely to do and not do when wearing a mask. When a person wears a mask, they’re less likely to touch their face and they’re less likely to hang on someone. they are more likely to wash their hands and be mindful of the things that they need to do to not spread disease. and on the occasion that they would sneeze or cough, it actually does get caught into the mask. but I know that the virus can get through masks. If I can smell perfume on people while I’m wearing mask then I can definitely get the virus through the mask. and every single person I have known to get a serious case of Covid were people who were only around others while wearing masks.

Because apparantly the 5 million times it was said over the past 18 months you missed it...masks work because they catch droplets the virus is riding on - which are significantly bigger than the virus itself and bigger than a perfume molecule, for that matter. They also can catch some of the smaller particles of aerosolized virus, because although the virus is small enough to fit through the weave of the mask it isn't traveling in a straight line but bouncing al over and it can't "steer" so lots will run into the mask fibers and miss the "holes". PLUS the material used in many many many masks has an  electrostatic charge which attracts the virus to the fibers and catches it. 

Therefore, a significant amount of the virus particles that would otherwise go into the air will be trapped by the mask. That is how masks prevent disease - by keeping the mask wearer from spewing so much virus into the air. That doesn't mean it traps ALL the virus, but it takes a certain amount of viral load to be infected, so reducing how much is in the air helps prevent disease. 

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Because apparantly the 5 million times it was said over the past 18 months you missed it...masks work because they catch droplets the virus is riding on - which are significantly bigger than the virus itself and bigger than a perfume molecule, for that matter. They also can catch some of the smaller particles of aerosolized virus, because although the virus is small enough to fit through the weave of the mask it isn't traveling in a straight line but bouncing al over and it can't "steer" so lots will run into the mask fibers and miss the "holes". PLUS the material used in many many many masks has an  electrostatic charge which attracts the virus to the fibers and catches it. 

Therefore, a significant amount of the virus particles that would otherwise go into the air will be trapped by the mask. That is how masks prevent disease - by keeping the mask wearer from spewing so much virus into the air. That doesn't mean it traps ALL the virus, but it takes a certain amount of viral load to be infected, so reducing how much is in the air helps prevent disease. 

Plus good masks are multiple layers and therefore the holes aren't lined up, so even more gets caught. 

 

When I am teaching, I use masks, air purifiers that have HEPA filters, spacing, etc. I take vitamins to help build up the immune system and allergy meds so my sinuses and lungs have less fertile ground for viruses to replicate. I'm vaccinated. It doesn't mean I can't catch COVID-or influenza, for that matter, but it helps. 

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5 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

I agree completely.  The problem is that most people are living as if one of these is the magic bullet.  “I’m vaccinated so I don’t have to wear a mask or distance.” Or “as long as we both wear masks…”

That seemed pretty true before Delta. I was willing to risk it when it seemed the risk had gone down two orders of magnitude and I was also unlikely to spread it.

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19 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Plus good masks are multiple layers and therefore the holes aren't lined up, so even more gets caught. 

 

When I am teaching, I use masks, air purifiers that have HEPA filters, spacing, etc. I take vitamins to help build up the immune system and allergy meds so my sinuses and lungs have less fertile ground for viruses to replicate. I'm vaccinated. It doesn't mean I can't catch COVID-or influenza, for that matter, but it helps. 

You know, I hadn't thought about allergies setting you up for Covid...hmm....vaccinated DS was having allergy issues before getting covid. Wondering if that plus the lack of sleep, stress of traveling, etc played a part. 

Guess that is encouragement to remember to take my allergy meds rather than waiting until I feel like I'm being waterboarded from the inside of my head, can't hear cause my ears are plugged, etc, lol. 

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44 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

You know, I hadn't thought about allergies setting you up for Covid...hmm....vaccinated DS was having allergy issues before getting covid. Wondering if that plus the lack of sleep, stress of traveling, etc played a part. 

Guess that is encouragement to remember to take my allergy meds rather than waiting until I feel like I'm being waterboarded from the inside of my head, can't hear cause my ears are plugged, etc, lol. 

That's what my allergist said, and why she raised my dosages. Build up of mucus makes it easier for any infectious agent that prefers that part of the system to grow. So, the goal has been to keep symptoms very, very minimal. Plus, while masks help reduce allergens, being congested AND masking would be miserable. 

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