Face-to-face school - anyone else's kids start yet?

[SKL]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

Does that include the teachers?

I didn't ask, but I assume that teachers had the ability to request to be assigned to the virtual learning academy.  (This is a separate, all-online learning experience, not a video link to an in-person classroom.)

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

I didn't ask, but I assume that teachers had the ability to request to be assigned to the virtual learning academy.  (This is a separate, all-online learning experience, not a video link to an in-person classroom.)

That would be goo. Very often, the choice is only given to the students, while the teachers are forced to teach in person unless they can make an ADA case with HR for compelling health reasons.

Edited August 26, 2021 by regentrude

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

I didn't ask, but I assume that teachers had the ability to request to be assigned to the virtual learning academy.  (This is a separate, all-online learning experience, not a video link to an in-person classroom.)

 

5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

That would be goo. Very often, the choice is only given to the students, while the teachers are forced to teach in person unless they can make an ADA case with HR for compelling health reasons.

Where I am the virtual school is a separate school - so the teacher would have to lose their job at their current school, with no assurance of getting it back post pandemic. There are county options and a state option. 

[Spryte]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

Where I am the virtual school is a separate school - so the teacher would have to lose their job at their current school, with no assurance of getting it back post pandemic. There are county options and a state option. 

Here, as well. This year we have a separate virtual academy for kids that is an option for students, but teachers either teach in person in schools or quit. The virtual academy is a different entity completely, separate teachers.

[Sneezyone]

The virtual school in our area is completely full.

[MooCow]

44 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Here, as well. This year we have a separate virtual academy for kids that is an option for students, but teachers either teach in person in schools or quit. The virtual academy is a different entity completely, separate teachers.

We have no virtual in our state. Our legislative branch made it a new law. The governor has never made a mask mandate. He was letting counties make their own though. I don't think any county in our state has a current mask mandate at this time.

[Kanin]

5 hours ago, ktgrok said:

 

Where I am the virtual school is a separate school - so the teacher would have to lose their job at their current school, with no assurance of getting it back post pandemic. There are county options and a state option. 

That's what happened to me last year. 

[KSera]

8 hours ago, MooCow said:

My dd's bestie is a teacher in another county, both her and her husband (also a teacher) obviously have covid. Again. They have several students out. They can't test until today. None of the teachers in that county are allowed to test until they get approval from the higher-ups.

Insane. 😟

They are not allowed to test? I don’t even understand that. How or why would the schools be able to prevent them from getting tested so they know how to protect their families, whether to pursue monoclonal antibodies, etc?

8 hours ago, SKL said:

We're all pretty healthy.  I wasn't worried about Covid for us before the vax either.

Are you willing to share what makes you feel confident about that, particularly for yourself? I know you’re vaccinated, so it’s pretty moot, I just hear this a lot from people and I’m not sure what it’s based on, considering the number of relatively young, healthy people filling hospitals right now.

[SKL]

17 minutes ago, KSera said:

They are not allowed to test? I don’t even understand that. How or why would the schools be able to prevent them from getting tested so they know how to protect their families, whether to pursue monoclonal antibodies, etc?

Are you willing to share what makes you feel confident about that, particularly for yourself? I know you’re vaccinated, so it’s pretty moot, I just hear this a lot from people and I’m not sure what it’s based on, considering the number of relatively young, healthy people filling hospitals right now.

The number of relatively young, healthy people "filling hospitals" because of Covid is actually very small.

I have several protective traits/habits besides being relatively healthy.

Like you said, it is moot at this point since we're all vaccinated.  Also, if you really want to be enlightened vs. make me look foolish, I and others have explained it all before.

Could we still end up hospitalized?  Theoretically, yes, but that is also true whenever we drive down the road or even just sit at our kitchen table.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Also, if you really want to be enlightened vs. make me look foolish, I and others have explained it all before.

 

I don’t know where this is coming from. It’s a question that I keep honestly wondering when I see people make that statement, and you are someone who is usually pretty open to discussion so I thought you might be willing to answer 🤷‍♀️.  I’m truly trying to understand what factors make some people think they’re not at risk. You are under no obligation to discuss it if you don’t want to.

[SKL]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

I don’t know where this is coming from. It’s a question that I keep honestly wondering when I see people make that statement, and you are someone who is usually pretty open to discussion so I thought you might be willing to answer 🤷‍♀️.  I’m truly trying to understand what factors make some people think they’re not at risk. You are under no obligation to discuss it if you don’t want to.

I think there may have been a thread about this before.

But honestly, you know what kind of pile-on will occur if I answer that question.

I am going to go see if I can catch the end of my kid's soccer game now.

[KSera]

25 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think there may have been a thread about this before.

But honestly, you know what kind of pile-on will occur if I answer that question.

I am going to go see if I can catch the end of my kid's soccer game now.

Fair enough. I didn't think it was fair to accuse me of some nefarious motive with my question, though.

I feel like the equation has changed even more with Delta, and every time I see someone being interviewed in the hospital who says they didn't get vaccinated because they didn't think they were at risk, I wonder what information might be making people think that. As in, I'm actually curious. Unlike many people I know, I actually still have a lot of compassion for those who are unvaccinated who find themselves hospitalized with severe Covid and some of them dying. I feel terrible each and every time I see one of those stories. I think the majority of those people were misled and that's how they ended up there. Knowing what brought them to that conclusion feels like it might be helpful in keeping more of them from ending up there as well.

[freesia]

46 minutes ago, KSera said:

Fair enough. I didn't think it was fair to accuse me of some nefarious motive with my question, though.

I feel like the equation has changed even more with Delta, and every time I see someone being interviewed in the hospital who says they didn't get vaccinated because they didn't think they were at risk, I wonder what information might be making people think that. As in, I'm actually curious. Unlike many people I know, I actually still have a lot of compassion for those who are unvaccinated who find themselves hospitalized with severe Covid and some of them dying. I feel terrible each and every time I see one of those stories. I think the majority of those people were misled and that's how they ended up there. Knowing what brought them to that conclusion feels like it might be helpful in keeping more of them from ending up there as well.

I still am not seeing evidence that there are a huge amount of healthy young people (I've been focused on the under 13 year olds )in hospital or dying. Tbh even in the profiles the doctors mention underlying conditions.  The children profiled are often obese.  I am NOT saying that it never happens.  I am just saying that I think it is exceptionally rare in a healthy child.  I had a child end up in the hospital with strep so I KNOW there are no guarantees with any sickness.  I agree with SKR though that we need to be cautious, but we don't need to have the same level of worry that we would if we had a child with underlying conditions (like many on this board) or for older folks--over 20 even.

If you can show me some evidence of healthy weight children with no underlying conditions being hospitalized and dying in high numbers (even 1% of those infected), I really, really want to see it.  I want to be sensible.  I just am not seeing it even with all the articles about hospitals filling up and more cases.  Even those articles keep saying that RSV is part of the problem. And more cases is relative.

Of course, if pediatric hospitals are overwhelmed in ones areas that is a HUGE reason to be cautious in lots of ways wrt risk. But if they aren't, I don't think we need to sequester our under 13s completely.  (I do believe in masks and social distancing.)

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, freesia said:

I still am not seeing evidence that there are a huge amount of healthy young people (I've been focused on the under 13 year olds )in hospital or dying. Tbh even in the profiles the doctors mention underlying conditions.  The children profiled are often obese.  I am NOT saying that it never happens.  I am just saying that I think it is exceptionally rare in a healthy child.  I had a child end up in the hospital with strep so I KNOW there are no guarantees with any sickness.  I agree with SKR though that we need to be cautious, but we don't need to have the same level of worry that we would if we had a child with underlying conditions (like many on this board) or for older folks--over 20 even.

I do think kids aren't at huge risk of dying. But most people saying that they feel safe aren't kids. 

With kids, I worry about long COVID more than anything else. 

[Sneezyone]

9 minutes ago, freesia said:

I still am not seeing evidence that there are a huge amount of healthy young people (I've been focused on the under 13 year olds )in hospital or dying. Tbh even in the profiles the doctors mention underlying conditions.  The children profiled are often obese.  I am NOT saying that it never happens.  I am just saying that I think it is exceptionally rare in a healthy child.  I had a child end up in the hospital with strep so I KNOW there are no guarantees with any sickness.  I agree with SKR though that we need to be cautious, but we don't need to have the same level of worry that we would if we had a child with underlying conditions (like many on this board) or for older folks--over 20 even.

If you can show me some evidence of healthy weight children with no underlying conditions being hospitalized and dying in high numbers (even 1% of those infected), I really, really want to see it.  I want to be sensible.  I just am not seeing it even with all the articles about hospitals filling up and more cases.  Even those articles keep saying that RSV is part of the problem. And more cases is relative.

Of course, if pediatric hospitals are overwhelmed in ones areas that is a HUGE reason to be cautious in lots of ways wrt risk. But if they aren't, I don't think we need to sequester our under 13s completely.  (I do believe in masks and social distancing.)

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2021/08/25/mississippi-state-department-health-reports-sixth-pediatric-death/5592909001/

Only one of the children is identified as having an underlying health condition and I'm not sure how anyone could call an infant obese.

https://www.wafb.com/2021/08/25/infant-dies-covid-19-louisiana-ldh-reports/

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I do think kids aren't at huge risk of dying. But most people saying that they feel safe aren't kids. 

With kids, I worry about long COVID more than anything else. 

Yes, but KSera was addressing SKR feeling safe and asking why she felt she and her 14 year old girls were safe.  Long Covid it another thing altogether. We just don't know.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, freesia said:

Yes, but KSera was addressing SKR feeling safe and asking why she felt she and her 14 year old girls were safe.  Long Covid it another thing altogether. We just don't know.

I guess I'd wonder why SHE feels safe more than her teens. I do feel like my sister is safe-ish, being vaxxed and being almost 20. 

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2021/08/25/mississippi-state-department-health-reports-sixth-pediatric-deat

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2021/08/25/mississippi-state-department-health-reports-sixth-pediatric-death/5592909001/

Only one of the children is identified as having an underlying health condition and I'm not sure how anyone could call an infant obese.

https://www.wafb.com/2021/08/25/infant-dies-covid-19-louisiana-ldh-reports/

h/5592909001/

Only one of the children is identified as having an underlying health condition and I'm not sure how anyone could call an infant obese.

https://www.wafb.com/2021/08/25/infant-dies-covid-19-louisiana-ldh-reports/

Thank you.  I do know children are dying and I am sad for every death.  And I want to be clear I do think any child dying is too many.  I do believe in mandatory masking in school and vaccinations.  I'm just addressing why SKR feels relatively "safe."  Five deaths compared to all the cases in Mississippi is not a high enough number to make me feel "unsafe" for my 12 year old--cautious and take precautions, yes (like SKR) but not worried.

[freesia]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I guess I'd wonder why SHE feels safe more than her teens. I do feel like my sister is safe-ish, being vaxxed and being almost 20. 

Yes, ok, that's fair.  She is vaccinated, though.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes, ok, that's fair.  She is vaccinated, though.

I think she said she felt safe before that. 

[freesia]

6 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes, ok, that's fair.  She is vaccinated, though.

Right!  I went back and checked.  She did say that.  So, yes, that is not something I would have felt (and I think she and I may be close in age.)  But I don't think her 14 year olds were in huge danger before.

My over 16 year olds are all vaccinated.  I am glad their risks are a lot lower and that they can go out and do things and not be huge contributers to spread--especially before Delta. They all really needed that freedom.

My dh does not want my 12 yo vaccinated yet.  I do.  It has been endlessly annoying and she has been tested multiple times and wears a Happy Mask. I want her vaccinated mainly to avoid the hassle and to contain spread if numbers continue to go up.  I keep looking for compelling evidence that she is actually in more danger than any other virus and I'm just not seeing it.  I would actually *like* to see it to convince dh.  If I were actually really worried, he would go along with it (he's not unreasonable or controlling at all. He is just not convinced of the cost v benefit for our particular child at this particular moment in our particular circumstance.) I just am not seeing it.  So, we keep trucking along with our masks and testing and being particularly careful to have her be extra careful of anyone who is more at risk (all of whom have been vaccinated) So, that is why I am joining SKR in explaining why someone wouldn't be worried, bc I've thought about it a lot.

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, freesia said:

Right!  I went back and checked.  She did say that.  So, yes, that is not something I would have felt (and I think she and I may be close in age.)  But I don't think her 14 year olds were in huge danger before.

My over 16 year olds are all vaccinated.  I am glad their risks are a lot lower and that they can go out and do things and not be huge contributers to spread--especially before Delta. They all really needed that freedom.

My dh does not want my 12 yo vaccinated yet.  I do.  It has been endlessly annoying and she has been tested multiple times and wears a Happy Mask. I want her vaccinated mainly to avoid the hassle and to contain spread if numbers continue to go up.  I keep looking for compelling evidence that she is actually in more danger than any other virus and I'm just not seeing it.  I would actually *like* to see it to convince dh.  If I were actually really worried, he would go along with it (he's not unreasonable or controlling at all. He is just not convinced of the cost v benefit for our particular child at this particular moment in our particular circumstance.) I just am not seeing it.  So, we keep trucking along with our masks and testing and being particularly careful to have her be extra careful of anyone who is more at risk (all of whom have been vaccinated) So, that is why I am joining SKR in explaining why someone wouldn't be worried, bc I've thought about it a lot.

I'd look at local hospitals and if they are reporting lots of vaccine reaction patients or covid patients. If more covid patients, that sort of answers that. 

[KSera]

49 minutes ago, freesia said:

I still am not seeing evidence that there are a huge amount of healthy young people (I've been focused on the under 13 year olds )in hospital or dying. Tbh even in the profiles the doctors mention underlying conditions.  The children profiled are often obese.  I am NOT saying that it never happens.  I am just saying that I think it is exceptionally rare in a healthy child.  I had a child end up in the hospital with strep so I KNOW there are no guarantees with any sickness.  I agree with SKR though that we need to be cautious, but we don't need to have the same level of worry that we would if we had a child with underlying conditions (like many on this board) or for older folks--over 20 even.

If you can show me some evidence of healthy weight children with no underlying conditions being hospitalized and dying in high numbers (even 1% of those infected), I really, really want to see it.  I want to be sensible.  I just am not seeing it even with all the articles about hospitals filling up and more cases.  Even those articles keep saying that RSV is part of the problem. And more cases is relative.

Of course, if pediatric hospitals are overwhelmed in ones areas that is a HUGE reason to be cautious in lots of ways wrt risk. But if they aren't, I don't think we need to sequester our under 13s completely.  (I do believe in masks and social distancing.)

Oh sorry, maybe I wasn't very clear. I don't mean kids when I say "young people", I'm talking about people the age of most of us on this forum--parents of school age kids (lol, I suppose at some point I need to accept I'm not a "young person" anymore). I was asking about people in the 30s-50s age range, because I hear a lot of people in that age range saying they aren't concerned they are at risk, yet there are a lot of them in the hospital. I'm not super worried about my kids, though I still really don't want any of them to get it due to the higher than acceptable to me risk of hospitalization (I saw 1.something percent hospitalization rate with Delta recently), but I do think they would most likely be fine. I don't like the long term effect possibility much, either. But, that's not what I was wondering about. I was wondering about adults who don't think they could end up in the hospital.

Edited August 27, 2021 by KSera
typos

[Matryoshka]

33 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes, but KSera was addressing SKR feeling safe and asking why she felt she and her 14 year old girls were safe.  Long Covid it another thing altogether. We just don't know.

SKL is not 14; she's in her 50s, I think. That's what KSera was asking about.  I am also in my 50s, and healthy. The stats for this age group are not reassuring.  I'm sick of being told I'm 'young and healthy.'  Healthy,  sure. Young? No matter how young I may feel, nope.  I do feel much better now I'm vaxxed, but not as good as I felt before Delta hit.  

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'd look at local hospitals and if they are reporting lots of vaccine reaction patients or covid patients. If more covid patients, that sort of answers that. 

Not completely for him.  There is a miniscule chance of a long term reactions.  I *know* and he *knows* that it is very, very small.  It's just that if the chance of death from covid is as small as death from say strep then waiting a few more months as long as our area isn't surging like Florida is not a tremendous risk on an individual level.  It seems the hospitalization for under 17 is less than .2 per 100,000 in our general area.  But I still want to know more about those children.  Other articles always have a line about "most of the children have underlying conditions."

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, freesia said:

Not completely for him.  There is a miniscule chance of a long term reactions.  I *know* and he *knows* that it is very, very small.  It's just that if the chance of death from covid is as small as death from say strep then waiting a few more months as long as our area isn't surging like Florida is not a tremendous risk on an individual level.  It seems the hospitalization for under 17 is less than .2 per 100,000 in our general area.  But I still want to know more about those children.  Other articles always have a line about "most of the children have underlying conditions."

I can tell you that here the doctors are NOT saying that most have an underlying condition. 

And there is a NOT miniscule chance of a long term reaction to Covid infection...so yeah. 

[Matryoshka]

4 minutes ago, freesia said:

Not completely for him.  There is a miniscule chance of a long term reactions.  I *know* and he *knows* that it is very, very small.  It's just that if the chance of death from covid is as small as death from say strep then waiting a few more months as long as our area isn't surging like Florida is not a tremendous risk on an individual level.  It seems the hospitalization for under 17 is less than .2 per 100,000 in our general area.  But I still want to know more about those children.  Other articles always have a line about "most of the children have underlying conditions."

The chance of death from strep (which we have a pretty much completely effective treatment for) is orders of magnitude smaller than covid. Okay google tells me the US death rate from strep per year (a bit over 1000) is just about the same as the current US death rate from Covid per day. Except the latter is currently also getting bigger daily as well. 

And I would guess that it's also largely the old and immunocompromised who actually die of strep, not healthy teens. 

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I can tell you that here the doctors are NOT saying that most have an underlying condition. 

This is what I’ve been hearing from doctors as well. That increasingly, they have more and more patients that were previously healthy, with no underlying conditions. It seems their vaccinated patients are almost all elderly or have underlying conditions*, whereas unvaccinated patients are skewing much younger and healthier, because those are the ones not getting vaccinated (because they think they would fare just fine if they caught Covid). 

* to be clear, I don’t say that to imply that those cases are less important because they are older or less healthy. Just making clear that the demographics of unvaccinated patients are different.

[freesia]

24 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I can tell you that here the doctors are NOT saying that most have an underlying condition. 

And there is a NOT miniscule chance of a long term reaction to Covid infection...so yeah. 

Actually, the doctors in the articles I read about Louisiana and Mississippi were saying that--that numbers of pediatric patients were climbing, but then they'd add something like "most have underlying conditions".  That's what kept frustrating me. I was *looking* for evidence of great numbers of healthy children hospitalized. I wish I still had them to link. I really do. 

And I don't see a high chance of long term serious reaction either, really.  But that is the most convincing argument, because we just don't know.  Many illnesses have lingering fatigue and coughs for weeks, though. So, for children, I want to know what the long term symptoms are and who the children who are experiencing them are.  Not so I know whether I should take precautions but whether I should worry and lock us down again.  With our family at this point in this place with these children I have to do risk assessment every day.  I do have GAD, but I cannot lock us down right now unless I see more evidence that we are "unsafe." And with 5 vaccinated and one healthy 12 year old not, we are not.  With the precautions we are taking and the amount of tests we are running,  and the amount of Covid in our community rn, I don't feel we are "unsafe" for others, either. We are also always clear about vaccination status and dd wears a Happy Mask indoors.

Look, I'm not arguing that this isn't serious, that we shouldn't vaccinate, mask, take precautions.  I really was just explaining the reason I can understand why someone with healthy children wouldn't feel terribly "unsafe."  I don't think that feeling (of individual safely) is a reason *not* to do what we each individually can do to stop this pandemic, bc on a community level (particularly for families like yours) it is absolutely important to do what we can to eradicate this disease. But the question was why she felt safe and, for her 14 year olds, I am not that convinced that they were much less safe unvaccinated than before-some, yes, but not a lot.

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, freesia said:

the question was why she felt safe and, for her 14 year olds, I am not that convinced that they were much less safe unvaccinated than before-some, yes, but not a lot.

I obviously wasn’t clear on this, but I was only asking why SKL (and other adults who say the same) didn’t feel at risk before being vaccinated. The kids were never meant to be part of the question, but the adults are clearly much less safe without the vaccination.

Edited August 27, 2021 by KSera
Came off sounding irritated, and I’m not!

[freesia]

6 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm not particularly scared of getting COVID or my daughter getting COVID but I'd still prefer for us to not get it. I don't know why people assume that because I'd prefer that we not get it that we're "scared" of it. It's a new disease. We don't know how it affects children long term. All things being equal, it's better not to get it. And if we do get it, which is probably inevitable, I'd rather push that out as long as possible. 

DH and I are vaccinated and DD will get vaccinated as soon as she's allowed to be. 

Yes, this is what I've been trying to say.  You can take precautions and not be "scared."  It's not wrong to not be scared.  It wrong to not be wise or care about the others around you.

[freesia]

49 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

The chance of death from strep (which we have a pretty much completely effective treatment for) is orders of magnitude smaller than covid. Okay google tells me the US death rate from strep per year (a bit over 1000) is just about the same as the current US death rate from Covid per day. Except the latter is currently also getting bigger daily as well. 

And I would guess that it's also largely the old and immunocompromised who actually die of strep, not healthy teens. 

Yeah, I meant for an otherwise healthy 12 or 14 year old.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yeah, I meant for an otherwise healthy 12 or 14 year old.

What's the rate of death from strep for an otherwise healthy 12 or 14 year old? 

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

What's the rate of death from strep for an otherwise healthy 12 or 14 year old? 

That's a good question, and I just can't find the answer--I'll look tomorrow.  I think it's much higher than we think what with the possibility of rheumatic fever.  The rate of death for children from Covid is presently overall reported in States as O.0%-0.03% of children's cases.  And most of these cases seem to be children with underlying conditions.

Here's another article https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/more-local-hospitals-report-children-with-possible-covid-19-health-consequences/2399514/

Even this one says: Thankfully most children with confirmed COVID-19 have had mild symptoms, rarely becoming ill. However, children with underlying health conditions who develop COVID-19 may be more at risk for having more severe illness. Though it occurs rarely, healthy children can become severely ill from COVID-19

And:A different source told NBC New York some (of 12 children it seems)of these children had no previous underlying health conditions.  

The article is full of terrible things. And I agree that it is terrible and we need to stop this.  But all the caveats added keep me from being worried about my child in particular--or more worried than I would be in general (she was hospitalized for 5 days at 10 months from a throat abscess from Strep which is why I mentioned that disease.  I have "worried" or felt she was "unsafe" since then from strep.  I just take precautions and get her tested if her throat is sore for more than a couple of days. )

 

[ktgrok]

For me, with my kids, it isn't death that is all I'm afraid of. I REALLY don't want a kid stuck in the hospital. I REALLY don't want that. It's scary, it's not fun, no. And we are 2nd in the nation for pediatric hospitalizations. 

[wathe]

Really, I think the relevant question is what's risk of vaccination vs the risk of covid infection.  Because, covid exposure is inevitable, I think.  I think it's clear that the risk of covid  vaccination (main risk in 12 year olds is myocarditis) is much less than the risk of covid infection (which can also cause myocarditis, at higher rates than the vaccine, along with MIS-C all the other known covid complications).

Comparing covid risk to the risk of other infectious diseases doesn't seem relevant to me.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, freesia said:

Yeah, I meant for an otherwise healthy 12 or 14 year old.

Unfortunately,  your risk calculation is still way off. Since the advent of Delta, Covid has now risen to be one of the top 10 causes of death in adolescents.  Strep... has never come close to making that list.

https://www.willistonherald.com/news/coronavirus/newton-delta-variant-has-pushed-covid-19-into-top-10-causes-of-death-for-adolescents/article_3f22ce24-f942-11eb-9fcf-1faf71fe208a.html

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

DD said about 5 kids were absent today. Again there were less parents and kids at school pickup today. 

But still only one positive COVID case in the school. 

It feels weird. People must not be testing. 

Our area isn't getting slammed right now so perhaps it's legit but other schools are reporting more positives. Our area has a "high transmission" according to the county dashboard. Positives are 10%. 

My nieces' school closed down for a week before Covid hit their area in winter 2020.  There were three illnesses going around so much that they decided they needed to clean and sanitize the whole school.  Just saying it's quite possible kids are sick with something else.  RSV is running rampant these days.

It is also quite likely that parents are keeping their kids home "just in case," for minor/iffy symptoms, when pre-Covid they would have sent them to school.

Last spring, my kid was sent home from school because she had a headache with no other symptoms.  The schools are being much more careful of everything, so it makes sense that parents would just keep the kids home for every little thing.  Better than getting a call to come and pick them up.

Another possibility is that kids are getting the vax and staying home for 1-2 days to deal with the side effects.

Edited August 27, 2021 by SKL

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Unfortunately,  your risk calculation is still way off. Since the advent of Delta, Covid has now risen to be one of the top 10 causes of death in adolescents.  Strep... has never come close to making that list.

https://www.willistonherald.com/news/coronavirus/newton-delta-variant-has-pushed-covid-19-into-top-10-causes-of-death-for-adolescents/article_3f22ce24-f942-11eb-9fcf-1faf71fe208a.html

The adolescent death rate for anything other than accidents, suicides, and cancer is incredibly low.  So being in the top 10 does not tell us much.

In my state, since the very first Covid case, there have been a total of 7 children who are reported to have died with Covid.  (My state's Covid death stats include anyone who had Covid when they died, even if they also had some other fatal condition.)  The number may increase with Delta, partly because Delta is so contagious that kids already suffering with other conditions are more likely to catch Delta.  It does not mean that Delta by itself is a significant danger to otherwise healthy kids.

Anyway, as you can see, a different view on this matter is pretty much not allowed here.

My point was that I did not consider the dangers of Covid to be sufficient to keep my kids from experiencing life.  Before or after they were vaccinated.  With or without the Delta variant.

[SKL]

6 hours ago, KSera said:

Fair enough. I didn't think it was fair to accuse me of some nefarious motive with my question, though.

I feel like the equation has changed even more with Delta, and every time I see someone being interviewed in the hospital who says they didn't get vaccinated because they didn't think they were at risk, I wonder what information might be making people think that. As in, I'm actually curious. Unlike many people I know, I actually still have a lot of compassion for those who are unvaccinated who find themselves hospitalized with severe Covid and some of them dying. I feel terrible each and every time I see one of those stories. I think the majority of those people were misled and that's how they ended up there. Knowing what brought them to that conclusion feels like it might be helpful in keeping more of them from ending up there as well.

So yes, you confirm that you asked me in order to know what wrong ideas I have.

I'm not up for it.  It's irrelevant to this discussion.

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

So yes, you confirm that you asked me in order to know what wrong ideas I have.

I'm not up for it.  It's irrelevant to this discussion.

🤷‍♀️As I said, fair enough. 

[kokotg]

12 hours ago, freesia said:

 

My dh does not want my 12 yo vaccinated yet.  I do.  It has been endlessly annoying and she has been tested multiple times and wears a Happy Mask. I want her vaccinated mainly to avoid the hassle and to contain spread if numbers continue to go up.  I keep looking for compelling evidence that she is actually in more danger than any other virus and I'm just not seeing it.  I would actually *like* to see it to convince dh.  If I were actually really worried, he would go along with it (he's not unreasonable or controlling at all. He is just not convinced of the cost v benefit for our particular child at this particular moment in our particular circumstance.) I just am not seeing it.  So, we keep trucking along with our masks and testing and being particularly careful to have her be extra careful of anyone who is more at risk (all of whom have been vaccinated) So, that is why I am joining SKR in explaining why someone wouldn't be worried, bc I've thought about it a lot.

2019-2020 was a record year for pediatric flu deaths, and they hit 199 that year. There have been over twice that many pediatric covid deaths. 

[Not_a_Number]

9 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Unfortunately,  your risk calculation is still way off. Since the advent of Delta, Covid has now risen to be one of the top 10 causes of death in adolescents.  Strep... has never come close to making that list.

https://www.willistonherald.com/news/coronavirus/newton-delta-variant-has-pushed-covid-19-into-top-10-causes-of-death-for-adolescents/article_3f22ce24-f942-11eb-9fcf-1faf71fe208a.html

That's depressing. Do you know what the other top 10 causes are? I assume lots of them are accidents and things like that. 

I would worry about long COVID in an unvaccinated kid quite a lot. Having brain fog for who knows how long sounds like a disaster for a kid or teen. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[freesia]

11 minutes ago, kokotg said:

2019-2020 was a record year for pediatric flu deaths, and they hit 199 that year. There have been over twice that many pediatric covid deaths. 

Yes, I agree.  It is worse and we need to stop it.  It is still a small number of children--and no one is being straight about how many are actually healthy children--just using words like "some" and "rare". Again, I'm not saying that means I will send my child unmasked anywhere and use no precautions.  It means I am not hugely worried about my individual child, which was part of what @SKL was saying.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's depressing. Do you know what the other top 10 causes are? I assume lots of them are accidents and things like that. 

I would worry about long COVID in an unvaccinated kid quite a lot. Having brain fog for who knows how long sounds like a disaster for a kid or teen. 

My son has brain fog with his PANDAS flares and it is....frankly scary to watch. He went from being incredibly advanced in math - as in doing multiplication in his head without ever being taught how to do it - to unable to add 2 plus 2. Literally - unable to add. Between that and the loss of almost all his mental stamina we lost most of a school year with him. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

My son has brain fog with his PANDAS flares and it is....frankly scary to watch. He went from being incredibly advanced in math - as in doing multiplication in his head without ever being taught how to do it - to unable to add 2 plus 2. Literally - unable to add. Between that and the loss of almost all his mental stamina we lost most of a school year with him. 

Ugh. That does sound scary 😕 . 

I get headaches fairly often, and my level of functioning with and without a headache is really different. And I get the sense that brain fog is worse than my worst headache. But it does give me some window into what it might be like 😕 . 

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes, I agree.  It is worse and we need to stop it.  It is still a small number of children--and no one is being straight about how many are actually healthy children--just using words like "some" and "rare". Again, I'm not saying that means I will send my child unmasked anywhere and use no precautions.  It means I am not hugely worried about my individual child, which was part of what @SKL was saying.

I actually haven't seen any data at all about how many are healthy children. I've Googled around and can't find much at all. I get the sense they are being cagey about it, possibly for health privacy reasons? 

If you find any information about that, I'd love to see. I've definitely seen profiles of formerly healthy kids with long COVID, but I certainly don't know exactly how common that is, either. 

I think it was @FuzzyCatz who had some experience with MIS-C? (Apologies if I'm misremembering.) And I know there are some boardies whose kids had COVID with no ill effects, too, but if I'm remembering correctly, we have quite limited anecdata. 

[whitestavern]

8 minutes ago, kokotg said:

2019-2020 was a record year for pediatric flu deaths, and they hit 199 that year. There have been over twice that many pediatric covid deaths. 

Source? From the CDC website, I'm seeing 385 in the 0-17 age range, which I believe is from the beginning. 

[kokotg]

9 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Source? From the CDC website, I'm seeing 385 in the 0-17 age range, which I believe is from the beginning. 

The AAP lists 401 pediatric deaths through 8/19 (and, yes, it's since May of 2020), with data from 44 states: https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

[kokotg]

26 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes, I agree.  It is worse and we need to stop it.  It is still a small number of children--and no one is being straight about how many are actually healthy children--just using words like "some" and "rare". Again, I'm not saying that means I will send my child unmasked anywhere and use no precautions.  It means I am not hugely worried about my individual child, which was part of what @SKL was saying.

Isn't the "healthy" children disclaimer true of flu deaths as well? I don't think the absolute risk of kids dying from covid is very high, but I do think it's higher than with most common diseases that we routinely vaccinate against (and that there are other concerns besides my own kid's personal risk when I decide about vaccines. Like those "unhealthy" kids who are at far greater risk than my own kids and who also deserve a social life and an education). But, yeah, I brought it up because you specifically mentioned wanting to see evidence that covid is more dangerous to kids than other common viruses. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by kokotg