Science for 1st/2nd grade—Blossom and Root vs Noeo

[AngelaR]

First, a caveat:  I love the general Charlotte Mason approach in younger grades but I expect to veer more classical as my kids get older. 
 

I am looking for a new science curriculum—after 2 days of Jay Wiles Science in the Beginning, my kids and I are dreading Science.  It doesn’t help that Wiles’ textbook is juxtaposed with Beautiful Feet geography and history, which we all simply adore. So, I’m looking for more of a “living books” approach to science. Last year, we did Blossom and Root’s Kindergarten science, which initially introduced me to Charlotte Mason and by Christmas, I’d traded in our very first homeschool curriculum (Memoria Press) for Ambleside and Wildwood.  We’re doing Nature Walks this year and still doing Burgess’ Bird Book;  but my kids (especially my son) is so curious about scientific things which I don’t know the answer to, that I’m looking for a more structured approach than Ambleside suggests (though not quite Jay Wiles level yet).  I’m not looking for “just get a bunch of read and find out books from the library.”  I’d like something more planned out and structured for me. The price isn’t an issue, neither is secular vs religious (yes I’m a believer but I don’t need someone to say read x Bible verse along with y chapter—I can help my children glory in God’s creation even if it’s written from a secular viewpoint). 
So I’m contemplating Noeo Biology 1 or Blossom and Root’s first grade. I would welcome any feedback (and open to any other curriculum that is similar to our BF geography and history we’re loving!).

[HomeAgain]

What are your specific goals for an education in science at this age?

[desertflower]

If you want open and go Real Science Odyssey is great.  Lots of hands on experiments.  You can pair it with the Let's Read and Find Out Series. 

It's not a Charlotte Mason approach, but it's structured. 

Or Scientific Connections Through Inquiry   https://scicurriculum.com/sci/sci-level-0/ 

[Kfamily]

I've quite a few natural history guides using living books for that level at my website. There are samples for each one. 🙂

Digital Shop | a-mind-in-the-light (amindinthelight.com)

[AngelaR]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

What are your specific goals for an education in science at this age?

Firstly, to have a way to answer some of their questions (such as "What makes the Northern lights?"  I have no idea).  Nor am I one to drop everything I'm doing to look it up.  Also, I don't feel comfortable with having a science curriculum driven strictly by their curiosities. Secondly, they love doing "experiments."  We have an Usborne book of science experiments, which I hate, because 1) they never get the underlying scientific principle...they're just too young; 2) I'm the one doing all the work, because again they were too young...scrounging around finding an empty plastic bottle, getting the googly eyes for the monster, cutting out the monster's tail and arms and legs, taping them to the bottle, getting the vinegar, and the soap and the baking soda and the kleenex to do the exploding/vomiting volcano/monster...and I just get tired and cross.  Science is not my thing.  I don't know the answers to half my 6 year old son's questions.  I never took physics, and don't remember much about chemistry, and all the sorts of things he's interested in.  

[AngelaR]

16 minutes ago, Kfamily said:

I've quite a few natural history guides using living books for that level at my website. There are samples for each one. 🙂

Digital Shop | a-mind-in-the-light (amindinthelight.com)

Thanks, I'll check it out!

[HomeAgain]

2 hours ago, AngelaR said:

Firstly, to have a way to answer some of their questions (such as "What makes the Northern lights?"  I have no idea).  Nor am I one to drop everything I'm doing to look it up.  Also, I don't feel comfortable with having a science curriculum driven strictly by their curiosities. Secondly, they love doing "experiments."  We have an Usborne book of science experiments, which I hate, because 1) they never get the underlying scientific principle...they're just too young; 2) I'm the one doing all the work, because again they were too young...scrounging around finding an empty plastic bottle, getting the googly eyes for the monster, cutting out the monster's tail and arms and legs, taping them to the bottle, getting the vinegar, and the soap and the baking soda and the kleenex to do the exploding/vomiting volcano/monster...and I just get tired and cross.  Science is not my thing.  I don't know the answers to half my 6 year old son's questions.  I never took physics, and don't remember much about chemistry, and all the sorts of things he's interested in.  

Noeo would not be a good fit for you.  It is reading and demonstration science, which are the kind of experiments you are describing.  A lot of work for little to no gain.

Honestly, I'd encourage you to look at Mystery Science.  Investigative, simple to execute, but worthwhile.  Supplies, when needed, are really found around the house for the most part (I had to buy straws once).  You can go through a whole strand, but have each strand or lesson driven by what is appropriate right now in your house. 

[jrichstad]

Blossom and Root has wonderful books, but what I've found is that it really takes a pretty decent science background on the parent's part to help pull it together in terms of making sure kids see the connections.

If you have time, I highly recommend getting a copy of BFSU and reading it just for yourself. It gives you that background to answer questions and see the way the different disciplines fit together. It's been far more useful to me that way than as a curriculum to follow with my kids, although we do use it loosely.

Have you thought about getting a good science encyclopedia (Usborne or Kingfisher, depending on age) and using that as a spine? I honestly don't think most elementary science curricula are going to touch on things like the Northern Lights (charged solar particles interacting w/ the atmosphere :))

[AngelaR]

4 minutes ago, jrichstad said:

Blossom and Root has wonderful books, but what I've found is that it really takes a pretty decent science background on the parent's part to help pull it together in terms of making sure kids see the connections.

If you have time, I highly recommend getting a copy of BFSU and reading it just for yourself. It gives you that background to answer questions and see the way the different disciplines fit together. It's been far more useful to me that way than as a curriculum to follow with my kids, although we do use it loosely.

Have you thought about getting a good science encyclopedia (Usborne or Kingfisher, depending on age) and using that as a spine? I honestly don't think most elementary science curricula are going to touch on things like the Northern Lights (charged solar particles interacting w/ the atmosphere :))

Sorry, what is BFSU?

[ScoutTN]

5 minutes ago, AngelaR said:

Sorry, what is BFSU?

Building Foundations in (of) Scientific Understanding

[ScoutTN]

We found Real Science Odyssey too busy and not enough reading, years ago when my kids were younger. So I just added living books and did 1/2 to 1/3 of the experiments. We skipped most of the writing and discussed instead. It was plenty.

[JennyD]

4 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Honestly, I'd encourage you to look at Mystery Science.  Investigative, simple to execute, but worthwhile.  Supplies, when needed, are really found around the house for the most part (I had to buy straws once).  You can go through a whole strand, but have each strand or lesson driven by what is appropriate right now in your house. 

I second this.  I've done all the lessons available on Mystery Science, most of them more than once with different kids, and IMO it's just a terrific program.  

Blossom and Root is very solid and offers a nice range of activity/experiment options for the homeschool setting, but I prefer Mystery Science.

Edited August 12, 2021 by JennyD

[AngelaR]

Mystery Science is all online, correct?  That’s what I get when I google it. It’s a bunch of videos.  I can’t find a link to any curriculum guide, list of books or anything. We are a low-tech family of homeschoolers (aka, unless it’s an occasional BBC-excellent-quality documentary, I’ll pass).  I prefer books. 

[HomeAgain]

6 hours ago, AngelaR said:

Mystery Science is all online, correct?  That’s what I get when I google it. It’s a bunch of videos.  I can’t find a link to any curriculum guide, list of books or anything. We are a low-tech family of homeschoolers (aka, unless it’s an occasional BBC-excellent-quality documentary, I’ll pass).  I prefer books. 

You are half correct. 

A lesson is set up like this:

1. The video starts.  It offers some information and poses a question or two to think about.

2. You pause the video, group brainstorm about the question.

3. Press play again, get more information, pause the video to use the new info.

4. Learn a bit more, the video ends. 

5. Attached to the video are activity sheets, ranging from different spinners to cut out and fold (like in the 'how seeds move' lesson) to a lab (like learning how animals keep warm).  You may have a few things to gather, which should be done before the video or split the lesson so the lab is done the next day.

In a 5 day week, the program would look like this:
M: Video portion (the actual video is usually 10-15 minutes of time)
T: Lab
W/Th/F: Library books on the same subject.

 

It is actually a very, very well done program.  I referenced the seed lesson because it's one my kid remembers very well 6 years later.  Science from that particular program stuck better than anything else we did.  They have sample lessons to try out, and I think you should at least try one before deciding it's a poor use of technology in the classroom.

[ktgrok]

Have you looked at Bookshark Science? We are only 1 week in but really enjoying it. I will say, some levels have some stuff backordered - my DD11 is doing level F and the experiment book and instructor guide are backordered, but they sent me a 3 week sample of each so we could get started while we wait. My son's level C science has those backordered, AND the experiment supply kit is backordered, so we started with the sample Instructor guide but can't do the experiments yet (1 per week) so will do those in a row once it comes in. Bookshark uses actual books, everything is scheduled, the kit comes with pretty much everything you need for the experiments, and it is scheduled for 4 days a week, so you can do field trips/nature study/whatever the 5th day. 

The worksheets are very very simple, but give "proof of learning" and reinforce what they read. You could do them orally if you didn't want to use them in written format. 

This first week, DD and I read about the Scientific Method and the engineering process in the DK book "How to be Good at Science, Technology and Engineering" , answered questions about it on the handouts, and then built a catapult according to the directions - THEN were told to research how to build catapults to find possible upgrades, and build an improved version. Came with a sheet to record results of original catapult, then what improvements she decided to try, materials needed for new version, and a place to sketch it.  The purpose was to participate in the steps of the engineering process - to identify a problem, research and think of solutions, build a prototype, and try it out, just like we read about.

DS and I read The Magic Schoolbus - Inside the Earth, answered a few questions each day in the handouts, and then he got to dig a hole in the backyard to observe changes in soil in the layers, rocks he found, etc. There is supposed to be an experiment this week but as stated above, the experiment stuff is on backorder til the end of the month. The experiment is about how water makes caves - and they read about that in the book this week, so it ties in nicely. 

Bookshark was critiqued before for not tying in the experiments with the reading, so they redid it all (hence the back orders)

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by ktgrok

[Dianthus]

We felt the same about Science in the Beginning.  I think I made it through one week and was falling asleep reading it, too dry and boring. We loved Bookshark science for grades 1-3. We tried NOEO and it is just ok, the books aren't as good as Bookshark and it seemed very light. We loved Mystery Science.

[AngelaR]

1 hour ago, Spirea said:

We felt the same about Science in the Beginning.  I think I made it through one week and was falling asleep reading it, too dry and boring. We loved Bookshark science for grades 1-3. We tried NOEO and it is just ok, the books aren't as good as Bookshark and it seemed very light. We loved Mystery Science.

Thanks for that note about Bookshark and NOEO. They’re both just about the same price—an arm and a leg!  😞  What did you like about Mystery Science over Bookshark?

Also, is there a big difference in the book selection/methodology between Sonlight and Bookshark?  I get that the Sonlight teacher guide is filled with references of God, but is that the biggest difference?  I thought there was an extra book or two in the Sonlight one also. 

[Dianthus]

I haven't used Sonlight and am not sure of the differences. I liked that Bookshark gave me a heads up in the teacher guide for sensitive topics, like how babies are made or violence depicted in history reference, etc. I think the Bookshark lit selections for the younger years were excellent, beautiful and interesting, and I found so many favorites through their program. I used slightly older, 2nd hand versions of NOEO Chem and physics and found the lit included to be mediocre, not the beautiful Usborne and interesting books that Bookshark had. Also Bookshark had nice, simple worksheets, but NOEO expected us to notebook, and I hate notebooking. I just looked at the Bookshark site and do not see the Discover and Do dvds and experiment books in the package anymore. These were nice and my kids still watch the experiment videos for fun.  Looks like Sonlight still has them here. The Bookshark experiments were much better than NOEO. Bookshark also had discussion questions, but I don't recall if that was only for history and lit.

Mystery Science is very fun. We do not do video school and I severely limit screen time. Mystery Science videos are short but very well done and always so interesting. We are getting another subscription this year for my 1st grader.  There is a sale starting Aug 15, for $69.  If you want a lit program, every month go to the library and check out an Usborne encyclopedia and other Science books or magic school bus or off the list in the bookshark package. If your kids are readers, keep them in the basket and let them browse. Or you could read a bit every week. I was trying to give you the budget option here because you complained of sticker shock, but just reread your original post saying price doesn't matter... well, use Bookshark if you want everything lined out. I always thought it was a great value when I unboxed all those lovely books.

Also when I reread, I see you're moving out of Memoria, and I am just moving into Memoria this year!

Edited August 13, 2021 by Spirea

[ktgrok]

11 hours ago, AngelaR said:

Thanks for that note about Bookshark and NOEO. They’re both just about the same price—an arm and a leg!  😞  What did you like about Mystery Science over Bookshark?

Also, is there a big difference in the book selection/methodology between Sonlight and Bookshark?  I get that the Sonlight teacher guide is filled with references of God, but is that the biggest difference?  I thought there was an extra book or two in the Sonlight one also. 

I was less worried about books that contain reference to age of the earth being censored in Bookshark than I was in Sonlight. We are old earth, evolution believing Christians. Also, the Bookshark Science looked more meaty. Sonlight is revamping their science to be more like Bookshark but only some grades I think right now. You do still get an experiment kit and experiment book, but it is new, and I really like it so far. Also, I think Sonlight still has levels where the experiment doesn't match the reading. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by ktgrok

[ktgrok]

The price IS high, but man, it is SO laid out for you. And well done. And visually appealing. And the books are the kind you will keep on your shelf (or you can resell the level). And that experiment kit has SO much in it - I was shocked when I opened DD11's kit. I also now need a bigger bin or something because I can't fit the stuff all back in there! And it is a big box to start with!

Oh, and NOEO the experiments didn't work about half the time - drove me and my son NUTS. So frustrating. 

Photo is of the catapult DD made yesterday - the unimproved version. 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by ktgrok

[ktgrok]

Seriously, I would say this kit, books, guide, etc are worth the price if you can afford it. There is always the option of just buying the IG, Kit, and experiment book and getting the other books used but I've found the time saved by ordering it all at once is worth it if you can do it. 

[AngelaR]

@ktgrok, Thanks for your thorough answer!  And the photo that included the directions. Was everything to make the catapult included in the kit? Or did you have to have to get your own popsicle stick and cup?    

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, AngelaR said:

@ktgrok, Thanks for your thorough answer!  And the photo that included the directions. Was everything to make the catapult included in the kit? Or did you have to have to get your own popsicle stick and cup?    

Everything was included except a hot glue gun/glue, and something to launch. (they suggested a mini marshmallow or a pom pom, but we also did peanuts,, and cat treats, lol). 

PLENTY of popsicle sticks, the skewer, plastic straw to put over the skewer, the little cup, the rubber band, etc all included. That kid is SO full. Has little packets of epsom salts, soil, iodine, everything you need.  I tried to take pictures of some of the layers of stuff in there, and a shot of what is included on the packing list. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and I found the 1 week sample of the experiment book for level C on the website, and we had the supplies on hand for that activity, so we did it today. We'd been reading about earth science, types of rock and how they form, layers of the earth, and how caves are formed. So the activity was to create a solution cave that models how acidic water dissolves limestone to form a cave. We used sugar cubes as the limestone, wrapped them in clay to mimic surrounding, harder rock and soil, and made holes in the clay with a toothpick to mimic cracks in the rock. He then poured warm water into the holes which dissolved the sugar. We cut it open and saw the cave that had formed. DS was actually pretty impressed!

[AngelaR]

@ktgrok That looks so fun!  I actually put in my order for Bookshark yesterday.  We’ll see when it gets here… thanks for all the pictures and excellent info!  

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, AngelaR said:

@ktgrok That looks so fun!  I actually put in my order for Bookshark yesterday.  We’ll see when it gets here… thanks for all the pictures and excellent info!  

I hope you enjoy it!

[ktgrok]

I forgot to ask, what level did you pick?

[Anne Elliot]

@ktgrok Not to be stalkery or anything, but please consider doing an overview of Bookshark F on your YouTube channel. The new science looks really good and I haven’t seen any videos on this history level. 

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, Anne Elliot said:

@ktgrok Not to be stalkery or anything, but please consider doing an overview of Bookshark F on your YouTube channel. The new science looks really good and I haven’t seen any videos on this history level. 

Oh,  I do want to! Just was too hectic starting, planning, and packing lately. And thank you 🙂

[AngelaR]

13 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I forgot to ask, what level did you pick?

I think it’s B. It’s confusing bc I was going back and forth between Sonlight (they labeled theirs level A) and Bookshark, which I think is level B. 

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, AngelaR said:

I think it’s B. It’s confusing bc I was going back and forth between Sonlight (they labeled theirs level A) and Bookshark, which I think is level B. 

yeah, it's confusing to go back and forth. I have one kid doing Sonlight (their toddler/preschool program) and they number the instructor guides differently than bookshark, which threw me for a loop today!  

[Foofaraw]

Sounds like you found a happy choice in Bookshark. For future people who stumble across this thread:

1. Another option is Sabbath Mood Homeschool guides, just start them at an earlier age.

2. We are very CM inspired, but mystery science videos and activities are excellent if you are low tech. The videos are mostly photos with voice overs, not frenetic whiz/bang experiments or hosts like others you might find on youtube. Also you can usually find a FB group buy- we paid $35 for 15 months this year.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Foofaraw