Scientific literacy

[Katy]

How did we get so many adults who don’t have it?  How can we make sure our children do?

[kbutton]

I don’t think that’s the only problem or the most major one. I think one major problem is the demonization of everything. It makes everything into an occasion to take sides. Many of the people I know who are not doing the right thing in this pandemic think science has been corrupted by politics, so they have shifted where they source their science.

I certainly cannot critique every scientific article I read, so I try to consider multiple sources and listen to people evaluate those sources. Those opposed to mainstream information are excluding information on an ideological basis. I guess I am too—I didn’t read many alternative sources before seeing that they were ideologically driven. There were people just waiting to exploit this; I saw misinformation out there before people even really had a grasp that this would be a pandemic. 

It’s like the way their sorting works is set up in the wrong order with politics, suspicion, and fear at the top, and then they science shop.

I think they also see low percentages for death and don’t have any idea of what that actually means or how behavior can change those things (hospital overwhelm).

I guess I see rigidity in many levels, and science can’t explain all of it.

[Faith-manor]

I think a bigger issue is religious influence because evangelicalism encourages the rejection of the scientific method, climate change, etc. While some denominations and religions do not encourage this, a lot of them do, especially those associated with the holiness movement, dominionism, and end times mythology. So I think that the rigidity is religiously based not so much associated with gaps in education.

That said, we don't do a good job of teaching basic science in this country, much less critical thinking skills.

[73349]

Districts, following the lead of federal and state bodies and their financial incentives, have prioritized scoring on reading and math tests and limited instruction of content.

Some people's religious teachings conflict with some basic science, leading to conflicts over what should be taught in schools.

States' instructional requirements and prohibitions are heavily politicized.

News and information production has become decentralized (not inherently a problem!) and consumption has splintered, so people have the choice of heavily biased or indeed counterfactual material if it appeals to them.

 

I don't think there's any hope for people who are interested in winning more than they're interested in learning or helping people. (Sorry.)

[Faith-manor]

10 minutes ago, Carolina Wren said:

 

 

I don't think there's any hope for people who are interested in winning more than they're interested in learning or helping people. (Sorry.)

This is sadly very, very true.

[Corraleno]

I agree that a lot of this is driven by politics, but the people pushing blatant disinformation for political ends wouldn't be able to get away with it without the appalling lack of scientific literacy in this country. I wish I could be more optimistic about the possibility of fixing that, but unfortunately I think it's only going to get worse, not better. For one thing, the politicians who rely on a lack of scientific (and historical) literacy to further their agenda also often control what can and can't be taught in schools. When all you have to do to get millions of people to ignore solid scientific evidence — even evidence that could literally have life or death consequences for themselves and their loved ones — is for TV hosts, talk radio personalities, and random social media posts to claim that scientists are lying and those who ignore the science are the really smart ones, I don't know that there's really any way to fix that. 

[Danae]

I think a big part of it is poor math education.  Because students don’t have the math to do much science we teach the results of past scientific discoveries and call it science. 

[Toocrazy!!]

I don't think people even try to find the truth or look at the data to see if they understand it. They rely on snippets and headlines and very few actually try to dig deeper. I think most people I know could understand the numbers if they tried.

That said, we have a lot of "experts" medical, virologist, epidemiologists who seem to contradict each other. It is hard for me to sort it out and know who to believe. I'm not a scientist at all, and I admit it's hard for me to know who to trust when they publish things. I really don't know enough about virology to understand how a virus mutates and if vaccines made it mutate. I simply don't. I've read so many contradictory aerosol and mask explanations. In general numbers are easily manipulated to show your side of the story, but it's hard to find raw data to run your own calculations or draw your own conclusions. 

[TravelingChris]

9 minutes ago, Danae said:

I think a big part of it is poor math education.  Because students don’t have the math to do much science we teach the results of past scientific discoveries and call it science. 

Oh I agree about this.  I had a super hard year (healthwise)teaching stat and research methods class to high schoolers .  But the one very important concept

hat I definitely was able to hammer was  how much junk news is out there hyping all kinds of studies that if you even read the article, you see it was a worthless study.  I had the students bring in ad or articleeach week and that was really fun for the teens and also they learned how many ads are deceptive and how many articles reporting studies that are crap occur.  We would figure out bias in selection, ways percentages are used to mislead, etc.

[kbutton]

One of the people pushing the worst agendas where I live are math and science literate—they have advanced degrees and are using raw data inappropriately. He blocks people from his groups who are in his own side of they point out problems.

He’s also cozy with the My Pillow guy on election conspiracies.

This is not a flaw in our education system.

A video is circulating FB of a doctor who is spreading vile disinformation about the vaccine, immunity, etc. in a public meeting (school board?, seems like Indiana).

[ktgrok]

I'd like to say it is a lack of education, but the truth is, my 4 yr old has a better understanding of germ theory, vaccinations, etc than many grown adults. And her "education" consists of Doc McStuffins and Sid the Science Kid. 

So...I don't know. Make everyone watch Sid the Science Kid?

In all seriousness though, I don't know how you fix this. If someone says vaccines are pointless because they don't prevent all transmission...I don't know why they can't grasp that less transmission is better than more transmission. That there are numbers in between 0 and 100. That it isn't reasonable to say Covid is more dangerous than the vaccine when we don't have ICU beds filled with vaccine reaction cases but with Covid cases. 

I don't know how to fix that. Even Sid the Science kid can't fix that. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by ktgrok

[TravelingChris]

2 minutes ago, Toocrazy!! said:

I don't think people even try to find the truth or look at the data to see if they understand it. They rely on snippets and headlines and very few actually try to dig deeper. I think most people I know could understand the numbers if they tried.

That said, we have a lot of "experts" medical, virologist, epidemiologists who seem to contradict each other. It is hard for me to sort it out and know who to believe. I'm not a scientist at all, and I admit it's hard for me to know who to trust when they publish things. I really don't know enough about virology to understand how a virus mutates and if vaccines made it mutate. I simply don't. I've read so many contradictory aerosol and mask explanations. In general numbers are easily manipulated to show your side of the story, but it's hard to find raw data to run your own calculations or draw your own conclusions. 

Too this point, I was watching a FOx news show (not opinion or humor) and a doctor whose opinion I have respected over the many years from John Hopkins was on talking about mask mandates in schools and how he had written an opinion piece about how blanket mask mandates in school could be doing more harm in particular segments of the school population- teens who develop worse acne, Developpmentaly disabled kids amd ,aube autistic kids who need to see more of the face for facial recognition. And there were other examples too which made a lot of sense and what he was saying is that blanket mask mandates in schools without exceptions for anything is just probably bad medicine but unfortunately very little actually good studies are being done.  And another point he made is that masking for what is close to a year and a half and may eventually be more may very well lead to many unintended health consequences and learning consequences and emotional consequences.  

I can't remember that rourine hearingf exams were given except with a newborn or if you know your child has speech delay, etc.  I wonder how many kids with slight hearing loss are not even detected and those kids just natural develop normally to lip read to a certain extent.  In mu family, ds has had slight hearing loss since multiple ear infections that didn't drain well and a too long delay in ear tubes.  I developed SJogren's definitely by my mid teens and have had hearing issues from that and (also know sensorineural too).  Both of us always prefer to have closed captioning on, don't like to listen to podcasts much- preferring to read the transcript and both cannot stand watching dubbed shows because of the incongruence of lips with speech.  In school and college settings, our type of hearing loss was not mentioned.  I have no idea how many kids have mild hearing issues that aare undected.

[Danae]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

 

I can't remember that rourine hearingf exams were given except with a newborn or if you know your child has speech delay, etc. 

My kids have them at every well-child visit.  It probably varies by region or individual practice, though.

[TravelingChris]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'd like to say it is a lack of education, but the truth is, my 4 yr old has a better understanding of germ theory, vaccinations, etc than many grown adults. And her "education" consists of Doc McStuffins and Sid the Science Kid. 

So...I don't know. Make everyone watch Sid the Science Kid?

In all seriousness though, I don't know how you fix this. If someone says vaccines are pointless because they don't prevent all transmission...I don't know why they can't grasp that less transmission is better than more transmission. That there are numbers in between 0 and 100. That it isn't reasonable to say Covid is more dangerous than the vaccine when we don't have ICU beds filled with vaccine reaction cases but with Covid cases. 

I don't know how to fix that. Even Sid the Science kid can't fix that. 

As my homeschooling career faded, I started volunteer tutoring in the public schools for a few years ( I ended up having to stop because I was just getting sick too often).  I had never met any kids that had the problem of figuring out more or less until I did that tutoring.  Now I did the math tutoring for   two  years and had a total of three math kids I Tutored.  I had one first grader who had no concept, but I think I did help her with it.  I also had one fiftj grade student who couldn't learn math and I tried hard that year to get him to learn math and to learn to read.  He did learn to read, at least.  The school system had absolutely failed him-he hadn't gone into special ed because of some asinine policy that kids who are bilungual can't be special ed too They were shutting him off to englsih as a Seond language but he had no issues with speech--- he had develpmental ed issues. 

And gently too- yes ktgrok, your smart kids get it and so did mine and so do so many average to smart kids- but average IQ is average for a reason-  this board trends very much on the above average IQ while the general public doesn't.

 

 

[TravelingChris]

8 minutes ago, Danae said:

My kids have them at every well-child visit.  It probably varies by region or individual practice, though.

Oh and that gets to another point, routhing hearing exams are pretty worthless in people with very good memories like my son and I.  The words they use are too simple for us and it is the same list each year,  Tonal exams are much more accurate- I never show that I have a hard time with conversations but II do at times ( my hearing loss varies depending on how clogged my ears are and how much steroids I am on)., but tones do show.

Same garbage with the checks for concussion.  My concussion was missed at the ER because I knew President Obama was in office.  But if you had asked me who my senators were at that point- something I can always say when I am okay in my brain, - I would not have been able to answer.

Same garbage with dementia tests- they have figured out that women, especially highly intelligent woman, don't show up as dementia patients for way too long because women tend to have better verbal skills.

[TravelingChris]

16 minutes ago, Danae said:

My kids have them at every well-child visit.  It probably varies by region or individual practice, though.

I think that may have been changed since my kids were small- but then, a lot of kids don't go to well child checkups  too.

[Danae]

4 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I think that may have been changed since my kids were small- but then, a lot of kids don't go to well child checkups  too.

True.  Ours are tonal exams, btw.  No words.  The eye exam charts are getting better too . . . lots of different rows of letter for the nurse to choose from instead of only six letters of each size that anyone with an above-average memory will remember without even trying.

[Faith-manor]

17 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Oh and that gets to another point, routhing hearing exams are pretty worthless in people with very good memories like my son and I.  The words they use are too simple for us and it is the same list each year,  Tonal exams are much more accurate- I never show that I have a hard time with conversations but II do at times ( my hearing loss varies depending on how clogged my ears are and how much steroids I am on)., but tones do show.

Same garbage with the checks for concussion.  My concussion was missed at the ER because I knew President Obama was in office.  But if you had asked me who my senators were at that point- something I can always say when I am okay in my brain, - I would not have been able to answer.

Same garbage with dementia tests- they have figured out that women, especially highly intelligent woman, don't show up as dementia patients for way too long because women tend to have better verbal skills.

I had one missed at the ER. For some reason I managed to name the president, but I couldn't remember my birthday, phone number, or parents' names. But, I was turned because I named the president, and then ended up back in the from vomiting and repeatedly passing out. Oy!

Too many verbal tests are worthless.

[Faith-manor]

48 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'd like to say it is a lack of education, but the truth is, my 4 yr old has a better understanding of germ theory, vaccinations, etc than many grown adults. And her "education" consists of Doc McStuffins and Sid the Science Kid. 

So...I don't know. Make everyone watch Sid the Science Kid?

In all seriousness though, I don't know how you fix this. If someone says vaccines are pointless because they don't prevent all transmission...I don't know why they can't grasp that less transmission is better than more transmission. That there are numbers in between 0 and 100. That it isn't reasonable to say Covid is more dangerous than the vaccine when we don't have ICU beds filled with vaccine reaction cases but with Covid cases. 

I don't know how to fix that. Even Sid the Science kid can't fix that. 

I think I would be all for Sid the Science , Bill Nye the Science guy vids, Magic School Bus, NOVA, and a few others because kids engage so they retain. What have now is simply not working. Lots of memorization of vocabulary for the test, but no practical knowledge.

[TravelingChris]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

I had one missed at the ER. For some reason I managed to name the president, but I couldn't remember my birthday, phone number, or parents' names. But, I was turned because I named the president, and then ended up back in the from vomiting and repeatedly passing out. Oy!

Too many verbal tests are worthless.

Exactkly==I was turned away and then went back when I got so much worse- couldn't remember how to use a phone.  Also, they only seemed to consider brain bleeds as a problem- which I didn't have but I had a lateral concussion- which is worse than front and back and also upon  the reading I did aFterwards, I found out that it wasn't all that mild at all.  I had a very long recovery but the cool thing was that although I temporarily lost a lot of spelling ability, my math calculation speed became faster/  I fought depression by getting very interested by deciding it was more like a science learning opportuinity.

[TravelingChris]

3 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think I would be all for Sid the Science , Bill Nye the Science guy vids, Magic School Bus, NOVA, and a few others because kids engage so they retain. What have now is simply not working. Lots of memorization of vocabulary for the test, but no practical knowledge.

Yes, yes, yes. 

[Farrar]

I think it's about a lack of trust in the system and an anti-intellectualism that has always been a waxing and waning thread in American society. Like, who cares if you can teach someone basic scientific literacy if they don't trust people. In the end, we have to trust experts to some extent and this suspicion and "do your own research" thing is killing us.

[prairiewindmomma]

You can have functional ears and bad processing of the sounds.  I have kids who pass basic tone screening and absolutely fail the auditory processing tests.

------

I think one of the main problems we face is that rhetoric has replaced scientific results sharing in many circles.

[TravelingChris]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I think it's about a lack of trust in the system and an anti-intellectualism that has always been a waxing and waning thread in American society. Like, who cares if you can teach someone basic scientific literacy if they don't trust people. In the end, we have to trust experts to some extent and this suspicion and "do your own research" thing is killing us.

But so much of the standard one size fits all is just too simplistic and I think it leads to mistrust too. Like the overly simplistic CDC recommendations and same with lots of other issues that are overly simplified.  

I don;t trust the traditional media to report science correctly- they do a horrible job for the most part.  I do agree with the mistrust though being a big issue.  Like with the people refusing to evacuate the fires in CA.

[prairiewindmomma]

A total aside, I didn't really understand the whole refusing to evacuate the fires thing until I could parallel it to hurricanes.

1. Looting happens while people are away.

2. You are stuck on the roads and could get trapped.

3. Your options are to go to a germy shelter filled with a bunch of strangers or to pay for a hotel (if you can find one with open beds).

4. There have been other evacuations before and you were just fine; why take off from work and pack up the house if you don't need to.

5. You'd frankly rather die on your property because you are old rather than go through the work of rebuilding, especially when you know you'll have to fight the insurance company (or worse, you have no homeowner's insurance and you will be homeless).

I will choose to evacuate each and every time, but I have a lot of empathy for people now that I get the dynamics a bit more.

[Faith-manor]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

A total aside, I didn't really understand the whole refusing to evacuate the fires thing until I could parallel it to hurricanes.

1. Looting happens while people are away.

2. You are stuck on the roads and could get trapped.

3. Your options are to go to a germy shelter filled with a bunch of strangers or to pay for a hotel (if you can find one with open beds).

4. There have been other evacuations before and you were just fine; why take off from work and pack up the house if you don't need to.

5. You'd frankly rather die on your property because you are old rather than go through the work of rebuilding, especially when you know you'll have to fight the insurance company (or worse, you have no homeowner's insurance and you will be homeless).

I will choose to evacuate each and every time, but I have a lot of empathy for people now that I get the dynamics a bit more.

And I think for older folks it is very difficult. My mother in law does not drive anymore. There is no one coming to her door to get her if there is an evacuation in this rural area. So she is stuck until we can get her. Thankfully, so far, no wildfires close by, but she is surrounded by 20 acres of forest so it could happen, especially because we have idiots that will set their ditches on fire to kill weeds when there are fire bans!! Sometimes they caught and fined. But that doesn't really do much for the fact that a fire started. 

And of course mobility alone is an issue especially when one talks about hurrying, time being of the essence. We have extremely limited police and fire services, and are 2 hrs from the nearest national guard base. Add to it that this area is not politically important to leadership, and well, there isn't any going door to door or into neighborhoods asking who needs assistance. So I do get how the logistics can be very difficult even insurmountable for some folks.

[ktgrok]

44 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think I would be all for Sid the Science , Bill Nye the Science guy vids, Magic School Bus, NOVA, and a few others because kids engage so they retain. What have now is simply not working. Lots of memorization of vocabulary for the test, but no practical knowledge.

Right before we started homeschooling my son was home sick for a full week, and we sat on the couch and watched PBS. I was convinced he learned more that week than all year in school. Shows about ballistics, the black death, random stuff - but so much learning!

My kids score well on vocabulary and scientific literacy stuff and I'm pretty sure it is all from PBS and having on NPR in the car. 

[Farrar]

24 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

But so much of the standard one size fits all is just too simplistic and I think it leads to mistrust too. Like the overly simplistic CDC recommendations and same with lots of other issues that are overly simplified.  

I don;t trust the traditional media to report science correctly- they do a horrible job for the most part.  I do agree with the mistrust though being a big issue.  Like with the people refusing to evacuate the fires in CA.

Neither the media nor the CDC are perfect. But I don't think either have done a "horrible" job. I think this line that they have is part of the problem. The CDC guidelines are merely the headline. Mainstream media is also just giving folks the bullet points. Same with government messaging. These bullet points, headline level information, elementary picture book level information, etc. that are being put out aren't wrong or horrible. They aren't super nuanced either, but if you want more nuance and depth, you have to seek more out yourself. But getting it from randos writing pseudoscientific nonsense on blogs isn't the same thing. And many respected media outlets are providing that nuance. Just because it's not easy to find in short AP reports or on the evening news doesn't mean that some publications aren't writing detailed, nuanced things that reflect many hours of research. Like, those articles that take you ten minutes to read and dismiss as not enough took someone with degrees days to research and write in some cases. And then many people think they can do better in an hour themselves surfing random bits of the internet and googling around.

[Scarlett]

I have never been interested in science.  I mean....I don't discount it at all, but my mind generally goes numb when I am trying to learn about it.  I have always felt that our physical world exists because it was created by God and the how of it all just did not interest me much.  But then my best friend was diagnosed with a very very rare blood cancer.  I found myself on forums learning all about it and reading up on treatment options and long term outcomes.  I learned how to read her blood work and have a conversation about it.

Same with a Pandemic.  Never studied germs much, or virus....was good with believing good hygiene helps prevent transmission of much of these viruses...But once the world was struck with a Pandemic....it seemed wise to do some reading to best know how to protect myself and my loved ones.

And if I can learn to understand some of this stuff anyone can.  They just don't want to.  Because it doesn't fit with their religion/belief/agenda/politics/culture.   Pick one.  

[Rosie_0801]

I think schools do a remarkable job of boring people into life long disinterest.

[Faith-manor]

17 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think schools do a remarkable job of boring people into life long disinterest.

Spot on, Rosie!

[Terabith]

I just learned that a family who was in our homeschool co-op with us when we were homeschooling are sending their kids to a Christian school.  I was looking at their summer reading list, and one of the books suggested for kids entering third grade is Miss Pickerell Goes to Mars, which was written in 1946.  

I am suspecting science education at this school is not a priority.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Terabith

[Danae]

51 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I just learned that a family who was in our homeschool co-op with us when we were homeschooling are sending their kids to a Christian school.  I was looking at their summer reading list, and one of the books suggested for kids entering third grade is Miss Pickerell Goes to Mars, which was written in 1946.  

I am suspecting science education at this school is not a priority.

??? It’s a science fiction story.  Robert Heinlein’s Rocket Ship Galileo was published in 1947. I’ve never thought that reading sci-if was a bad sign for prioritizing science education.

[bookbard]

I suspect lack of curiosity is a big thing - often curiosity gets beaten out of kids at school (metaphorically). For example - someone said to me, oh, now I've had my mRNA vaccine, my DNA is changed and I can go rob a bank (as a joke, of course!) So, even though I was like, oh RNA isn't DNA, I still had to go home and google the differences and why people think their DNA is changed and so forth. Whereas this person had been going around saying this for weeks and I'd been the only person who had pointed out mRNA was different to DNA (yeah, I'm the life of the party, aren't I?)

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, Danae said:

??? It’s a science fiction story.  Robert Heinlein’s Rocket Ship Galileo was published in 1947. I’ve never thought that reading sci-if was a bad sign for prioritizing science education.

Agreed - and those into science fiction are often the ones most into actual science, as well. 

[Farrar]

2 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think schools do a remarkable job of boring people into life long disinterest.

"When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all..."

[4everHis]

I don't usually jump into conversations here, though I do love how I learn to think outside my box here. As I was reading through this thread I heard no less than 3 commercials for contacting lawyers re:side effects of different prescription drugs. Could it be that these "facts" also play into peoples trust, or lack thereof, in the safety of pharmaceuticals? These prescriptions also had the science behind them. I'm not being snarky. This is a sincere question/thought.

[theelfqueen]

4 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Oh I agree about this.  I had a super hard year (healthwise)teaching stat and research methods class to high schoolers .  But the one very important concept

hat I definitely was able to hammer was  how much junk news is out there hyping all kinds of studies that if you even read the article, you see it was a worthless study.  I had the students bring in ad or articleeach week and that was really fun for the teens and also they learned how many ads are deceptive and how many articles reporting studies that are crap occur.  We would figure out bias in selection, ways percentages are used to mislead, etc.

I absolutely agree - Even without teaching the mathematical complexities, students can and should be exposed to statistical literacy of the sort in books like Naked Statistics and How to Lie with Statistics. To see misleading graphic and verbal presentations for what they are is an essential skill. 

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, Danae said:

??? It’s a science fiction story.  Robert Heinlein’s Rocket Ship Galileo was published in 1947. I’ve never thought that reading sci-if was a bad sign for prioritizing science education.

I love science fiction.  There are other indications that signal science is not a priority at this particular school.  

[TravelingChris]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Right before we started homeschooling my son was home sick for a full week, and we sat on the couch and watched PBS. I was convinced he learned more that week than all year in school. Shows about ballistics, the black death, random stuff - but so much learning!

My kids score well on vocabulary and scientific literacy stuff and I'm pretty sure it is all from PBS and having on NPR in the car. 

We did eclectic learning- we used a lot of good media for some of the learning or actually we used PBS a lot as entertainment- also other learning shows/

And in that low income school I tutored, one day they had me act as a substitute teacher for a third grade class for the hour.  We were discussing animals- as was the teacher plan.  And this one kid kept piping up with all these very detailed facts about what I was discussing.  And I asked him where he was learning this since it was so much above what the lesson plan was- and he was watching things like Animal Planet, NatGeo Wild, etc, etc.  I let him keep piping up with facts because I thought the other kids could learn from that boy

[TravelingChris]

52 minutes ago, 4everHis said:

I don't usually jump into conversations here, though I do love how I learn to think outside my box here. As I was reading through this thread I heard no less than 3 commercials for contacting lawyers re:side effects of different prescription drugs. Could it be that these "facts" also play into peoples trust, or lack thereof, in the safety of pharmaceuticals? These prescriptions also had the science behind them. I'm not being snarky. This is a sincere question/thought.

OMG- absolutely yes- I do think they are a big factor.  They are a huge factor in people who are diagnosed with chronic illnesses that I have who worry about the side effects,  They don't understand that the cancers, very serious infections, and other scary stuff are actually quite rare/

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, Danae said:

??? It’s a science fiction story.  Robert Heinlein’s Rocket Ship Galileo was published in 1947. I’ve never thought that reading sci-if was a bad sign for prioritizing science education.

And I loved Farmer in the Sky by Robert Heinlein so much as a kid that I decided to buy it a few years ago. 

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

"When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all..."

I had to listen to Kodachrome again since I love that song.

 I started in 1968 and graduated in 81-  even back then, as a kid, I was so concerned that I wasn't learning enough that I started collecting older, meatier textbooks at used sales or one my brother gave me and kept checking out library books like some book about North American Indians or another about FIrst Ladies of the White House, and another one about history of Arlington County, VA- all had photos or pictures but lots of info too.  

I thought my school taught lousy grammer,  the math was awful, etc.

In fact when I was in high school, and was complaining about boredom to the high school counselor- he recommended I go take college classes- well I didn't do that but did take classes at the American Film Institute with everyone else being an adult and most being at least 35 years older.