nt

[Janeway]

This problem is way bigger than the job and I should have just kept it to myself. Sorry that I laid it on you all.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Janeway

[mommyoffive]

I don't have kids with jobs at this point, thanks Covid.  But it would never occur to me to make my kids pay for rides to work.  My mom drove me to work for years (or sometimes if it worked out I would go with a friend).  I don't see me having my kids pay for rides.  When they are adults I think I would have to think about how things would work.  

I could see you making him pay for car repair.  

I would have him contact the boss about the paycheck.  Maybe the other hours are on the next check?  I wouldn't assume anything until he talks to them.  I think you need to coach him through how to handle these things.

I think you should think about transportation before he is allowed to take a job. I think at this point you guys need to sit down and discuss this.  Can you keep driving him?  Can he do Uber?  Can he get a ride with a friend.  Go over how much it costs and how much he is making so he can make an educated decision.  And it is ok for you to tell him you can't keep driving him.  But I think it would be more fair to him to let him know those things before he commits to things.

[regentrude]

First, he needs to get in contact with his manager and sort out the missing pay. He should not quit until he has been paid in full.

Once that is accomplished, I would no longer subsidize this job by driving him. I might drive my teen that far for a unique opportunity that has high educational value; I would not drive an hour for an unskilled part-time job in food service. You said "We told him we did not approve of him getting a job in another town. And he needed to take care of his transportation." He didn't. So, stop driving him.

This has nothing to do with you "controlling" him. He is expecting that you solve the problem he created. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by regentrude

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 But it would never occur to me to make my kids pay for rides to work.  My mom drove me to work for years. 

How far? Did you ask your mother to take an hour out of her day? 

Edited August 2, 2021 by regentrude

[mommyoffive]

Just now, regentrude said:

How far? Did you ask your mother to take an hour out of her day? 

The mall was about 20 mins one way, so about the same. 

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

The mall was about 20 mins one way, so about the same. 

but I assume you asked her beforehand and didn't take the job against your parents' wishes?

[fairfarmhand]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How far? Did you ask your mother to take an hour out of her day? 

 

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

The mall was about 20 mins one way, so about the same. 

Everyone has different responsibilities and capabilities. Just because someone has a mom who can drive that much doesn't mean that every mom is obligated to do so. 

 

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

 

Everyone has different responsibilities and capabilities. Just because someone has a mom who can drive that much doesn't mean that every mom is obligated to do so. 

 

For sure.  I never said that she should be doing this.  Or how he did it was right. I said it was fine for her to say she can't drive him.  

What is confusing to me is you said he can't take the car and then he does.  Can't you just take the keys and actual enforce it? Then you say you don't want him to get a job in another town and he needs to get his own transportation and then you are driving him.   I think you need to decide what you can or want to do and be firm and clear.

[Katy]

Most part time jobs pay is delayed 2-4 weeks. So I don’t think it’s odd to get paid for one or two shifts if he started at the end of the pay period.  He’ll get the rest in the next check. Or he could have filed zero in his taxes, which means they withhold the maximum amount. 

Is there a city bus in your area?  I’d make him take that, even if it means 3 hours a day. 

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, mommyoffive said:

For sure.  I never said that she should be doing this.  Or how he did it was right. I said it was fine for her to say she can't drive him.  

What is confusing to me is you said he can't take the car and then he does.  Can't you just take the keys and actual enforce it? Then you say you don't want him to get a job in another town and he needs to get his own transportation and then you are driving him.   I think you need to decide what you can or want to do and be firm and clear.

Yep. And enforce the things that you expect. None of my kids have ever had a key to my car. They had to get it from me or my dh any time they wanted to use my car. They never assumed that it would be available to them, they always asked. 

[melmichigan]

So if I understand correctly he is working 4 hour shifts, with you driving an hour each time, so two hours a day for him to make $54?  Absolutely not.  I have teens that wanted to do this, because I can't afford for them to have a drivers license until they are 18 and can help pay their insurance, and the answer is no.  Public transportation may or may not be available and that is their option.  I walked 45 minutes to the bus stop, to then take a bus to work when I graduated high school because I couldn't afford a car.

Edited August 2, 2021 by melmichigan

[Murphy101]

I’m with your husband. I would not drive him and I would not loan him money and I would not let him drive any of our cars. Period.

If he wants a ride, he has to pay just like Uber - before we get in the car. And if it bothers him, he will just have to save up to buy his own.

I think if he was going to learn by you keeping on covering his debts - he’d have learned it by now.

[Murphy101]

And I say that as a mom who has been totally okay putting a new baby in the van at 2 am to go pick up a son from work 5-6 days a week at one point. I’m more than willing to sacrifice a bit to help them gain a lot. An hour on the road for a part time fast food job is flat out not worth my time or financial sacrifice. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I think it’s likely that he doesn’t understand the time periods.  Most of those type of jobs that I’ve had were delayed paychecks.  So if I worked the week of August 1, I didn’t get paid for that week till the week of August 15.  I would double check with his manager on that.

Natural consequences of using a car without permission and destroying it are either using Uber or paying someone to drive you, if you can find someone willing.  I’d tell him he needs to use Uber and then let him figure out whether or not this job is worth keeping.

[elegantlion]

If that were my son, we'd be doing some math on paper to see how much he's really making an hour. I imagine the signing bonus was attractive. But, yes, stop driving him. 

I also agree that his check is just delayed as Katy said - that was common when I worked retail eons ago. 

Would I loan him money for an event. No. 

[KSera]

How I would handle the driving thing depends on so many things. Do you know why he chose this job that’s so far away? Are there comparable jobs closer to you? Is he learning good life skills from working right now? I drove a kid that far, there and back for work for a couple years. That was two hours of drive time a day, which was a huge monopoly of my time, but this kid really needed that job for various reasons, and it was in their best interest for me to help make that happen, so I did. With a different kid or different circumstances, I wouldn’t necessarily have done that, and I know for some family circumstances, that wouldn’t work. For me it was like the way some families spend a lot of time on their kid’s sport, because the kid really needs that  This was a mental health and life skills benefit. I can’t tell if there’s anything like that with this job. One major difference is that my kid didn’t just get the job and then tell us about it and say we needed to drive her. We said ahead of time we’d make the transportation work somehow  

I won’t address the why is he still driving and wrecking your car since you said that’s covered. 

[EKS]

19 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How far? Did you ask your mother to take an hour out of her day? 

Two hours, actually.

There is no way I would have agreed to this.  He needs to get his own transportation or quit.

[Soror]

I know my son's job the pay is delayed, that is probably what happened with his. Ds' first check he was only got paid for a couple of hours, yet he worked 5 more days that week. The reason being is that first day was on the current pay period but then it switched to a different pay period. He needs to find out the pay period.

FWIW we live out of town. My son didn't get a job until he could drive there. I'd not deal with the hassle of charging him to pay for the rides or driving on toll roads. Far better for him to have a local job that pays less. Unless this was an amazing job (which its not) there is no way it would be worth the time, money, and hassle.

With your situation there is no way I'd be driving him to a job I told him not to get in the first place. I'd already be 10x kinds of pissed if my kid was taking my car without my permission. After the first time they'd not have access to it period. I think it is beyond generous to even offer to drive him considering he took the other car without permission repeatedly and then broke it. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Soror

[HS Mom in NC]

My now 16 year old is applying for jobs.  She won't be able to get her license until next Spring. I have the time and no younger kids, so for the next 9 months I'll spend the time.There's no public transportation here.  I'll have to be in the car while she drives herself there and back because of permit rules, so when she listed her availability on the applications, it was only to locations I agreed to up front and time frames I agreed to up front. She has our extra key on her key ring, but if she ever takes the car without permission when she has her license, I'll take that extra key back and she'll have to ask me or my husband permission for it.

I wouldn't loan her money for an event. She's gotten a set monthly allowance for clothes, toiletries, cosmetics, entertainment, etc.  since she was 13 years old. She has to save up for things if she wants to do them. If she wants more money than that she has to earn it.

[Lecka]

I think the more independent he is of you, the less angry he will be at you.

I think having him figure out a job that makes sense with him paying for Uber makes the most sense.  
 

If it seems like it would help your relationship, that would be different to me.

My assumption is he will still be angry at charging him $15 and maybe have little motivation to figure out something that makes sense for him without relying on you.

I think look elsewhere for ways to try to improve your relationship.  I don’t think this is going to be it.  
 

I think he is going to be mad and think things aren’t fair on this, no matter what you do, at a certain point.  
 

I don’t think there is going to be any way to get around that he has made some poor choices.

My husband has also had delayed pay.  He can ask the manager.  Continuing to work there should not matter as far as pay he is owed.

Whether it will come in time for his event or not — who knows.  

[prairiewindmomma]

You have multiple issues in your post, not sure what you are asking advice on....

1. The paycheck issue: may be a cut-off on dates; I would ask him to contact HR or the owner or whomever and get that sorted out.

2. Loan the money for the weekend event or not, your call

3. Destroyed vehicle: this depends---

a. If he didn't have permission to drive it, he shouldn't have been driving it.

b. Continuing to be out longer than permissible should have been addressed at the time it happened.

c. A vehicle overheating---if he was driving an older vehicle, and he didn't understand the gauges or whatever, this could just be inexperience.  I suspect that at some point, when one of our kids is driving our 18 year old vehicle, it's going to break down.  The problem isn't that our kid happened to be driving it. It's that it's 18 years old.  So, I'd examine that.

d. If dropping down to one remaining vehicle is an issue, then decide if your family can afford another, or if you have to prioritize that vehicle for yourself as an adult.  If the answer is that that vehicle is not available for your ds to use, then be direct and tell him that.  It sounds like there's not much super clear communication happening at home based on what you've shared.

4.  I'd be blunt about him needing to find a job he can transport himself to. You sound unwilling and/or unable to drive him, so he needs to sort that out himself.

 

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

I don't have kids with jobs at this point, thanks Covid.  But it would never occur to me to make my kids pay for rides to work.  My mom drove me to work for years (or sometimes if it worked out I would go with a friend).  I don't see me having my kids pay for rides.  When they are adults I think I would have to think about how things would work.  

I could see you making him pay for car repair.  

I would have him contact the boss about the paycheck.  Maybe the other hours are on the next check?  I wouldn't assume anything until he talks to them.  I think you need to coach him through how to handle these things.

I think you should think about transportation before he is allowed to take a job. I think at this point you guys need to sit down and discuss this.  Can you keep driving him?  Can he do Uber?  Can he get a ride with a friend.  Go over how much it costs and how much he is making so he can make an educated decision.  And it is ok for you to tell him you can't keep driving him.  But I think it would be more fair to him to let him know those things before he commits to things.

We did not allow him to take this job. He did it against our will. I couldn’t imagine taking a job in another town and expecting my parents to spend two hours a day in the car and pay tolls to drive me back and forth. Especially not after them telling me no.

[mum]

I also think he will be less angry if it's all independent of you. I have driven my teens a LOT of places, some days 3 hours a day, but it was for excellent educational or career-advancing work. Never minimum wage work. If they were looking at a minimum wage job that required that much commuting, I would require them to sit down and do the math on paper. If he keeps this job, I'd vote for having him take Uber. The real life lesson of it not being worth it will come much quicker and not be tied to you. Both good things.

 

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

How far? Did you ask your mother to take an hour out of her day? 

And it would be an hour twice a day, on toll roads and highways, to a job that we told him he was not allowed to take.

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, Janeway said:

We did not allow him to take this job. He did it against our will. I couldn’t imagine taking a job in another town and expecting my parents to spend two hours a day in the car and pay tolls to drive me back and forth. Especially not after them telling me no.

Right, but then why did he have access to your car?  Why are you driving him if you said no in the start?  You need to be firm with him about what you are going to do and not.

[AmandaVT]

1 minute ago, Janeway said:

We did not allow him to take this job. He did it against our will. I couldn’t imagine taking a job in another town and expecting my parents to spend two hours a day in the car and pay tolls to drive me back and forth. Especially not after them telling me no.

But you have been - so that's why he's making the choices he is. He knows you'll cave? I'd probably say something along the lines of "We let you know that if you took this job we couldn't transport you. We did a few times to help out but we can't any longer. Give the manager a call to find about about the paycheck and feel free to call an uber or take a bus." Leave emotion out of it the best you can - he made a choice, he can figure it out. Or not.

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

The mall was about 20 mins one way, so about the same. 

Did she tell you before you took the job that you were not allowed to take the job and you could not drive him and you took it anyway, against her will, and then you forced her to drive you and pay the costs to drive you?

[mum]

3 minutes ago, Janeway said:

We did not allow him to take this job. He did it against our will. I couldn’t imagine taking a job in another town and expecting my parents to spend two hours a day in the car and pay tolls to drive me back and forth. Especially not after them telling me no.

If he took the job without your knowledge or consent, then he is 100% responsible for getting himself there, IMO. That means not you, not your car. 100% on him.

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Janeway said:

And it would be an hour twice a day, on toll roads and highways, to a job that we told him he was not allowed to take.

Then why ARE you driving him? Doesn't that just tell him you don't mean what you say?

[Janeway]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

For sure.  I never said that she should be doing this.  Or how he did it was right. I said it was fine for her to say she can't drive him.  

What is confusing to me is you said he can't take the car and then he does.  Can't you just take the keys and actual enforce it? Then you say you don't want him to get a job in another town and he needs to get his own transportation and then you are driving him.   I think you need to decide what you can or want to do and be firm and clear.

nt

Edited August 2, 2021 by Janeway

[Clarita]

In response to the paycheck issues, maybe check out this website Concerns: Pay for hours worked - Worker.gov. From the website it sounds like you can make a complaint to the government directly without a lawyer. 

I mean first steps is to talk to the manager or HR about the discrepancy in pay; if it is a pay period issue they should be able to tell him the exact date he will be paid.

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Then why ARE you driving him? Doesn't that just tell him you don't mean what you say?

nt

Edited August 2, 2021 by Janeway

[mommyoffive]

5 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Did she tell you before you took the job that you were not allowed to take the job and you could not drive him and you took it anyway, against her will, and then you forced her to drive you and pay the costs to drive you?

No of course not.  We talked about it, she knew about it, and supported me having the job.  She also drove me and never asked me to pay.  

 I don't know if you have a lot more backstory to the behavior of your son, and to that I can't give advice on as I don't have any experience.  But with what it sounds like you are dealing with is not a healthy situation that I would be driving and supporting my kid through.  I think the way that he got this job, stealing your car, wrecking it, and now you just driving him anyway is not teaching him to listen to you and follow your rules. 

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

I think the way that he got this job, stealing your car, wrecking it, and now you just driving him anyway is not teaching him to listen to you and follow your rules. 

This.

[prairiewindmomma]

10 minutes ago, Janeway said:

His therapist said we should have called the police and pressed charges. But that would have gotten US in to legal trouble. He is underage so we, the parents, would have been stuck with that bill too. We did take the keys, but he found them and took off anyway. He likes to manipulate the situation and say stuff like "but you said I could hang out with Camille." And we tell him again and again..but we did not say now, or yesterday, or last week, that you could take our car. We have taken to hiding the keys. But eventually, we use the car and he sees the keys out and he steals the car. Now the car is destroyed so that is a non-issue. And his criminal behavior is why he is seeing the therapist, psychologist, and psychiatrist. But beyond that, on the practical issue, my husband is right. I think we just need to tell him no more, not even for the $15. 

Amazon sells fingerprint safes for <$200. Put the keys in the safe. Then you, as a parent, have done your bit to secure access to the vehicle.

I don't know why the heck you would drive a kid who got a job without permission, who stole a car from you, and who is pressuring you to drive him. No means no, end of story, especially when you have trained professionals agreeing with you about the seriousness of the degree of his behaviors. 

Yes, he is going to be angry. Yes, there may be fall out. Yes, he might move out or make other choices for himself. At 17, your options are limited. Trust in the advice of the professionals advising your family (and maybe not ask here, because this is way over all of our heads because even if we are professionals in this area, we don't know the details of your circumstances, nor are we advising you in our professional capacities).

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Janeway said:

Our son decided to apply for and get a job out of town. He is 17 yrs old and does not own a car. The route to get to work involves toll roads. It takes almost 30 minutes each way when he goes. He had use of our car, but only in town and only when he had permission. He was not supposed to take the car just whenever. He ended up ruining our car. He repeatedly drive it an hour away and spent hours out with it. We would repeatedly tell him no but it never got through. Apparently, the car overheated and he kept driving it. It destroyed the engine. The final day of this, he drove the car an hour away and ended up stranded on the freeway. 

He worked at one job at the mall that paid $10.50. They gave him early morning shifts and not very many. I don't know if he could have asked for more hours. He took a job at an ice cream place that was near my parents house. I spend a lot of time at my parents house so the drive was not a big deal. I am unsure how much he was paid there, but he was allowed to have all the food and ice cream he wanted so that more than made the job worth a lot. So he quit the job at the mall. Then, just before he destroyed our car, he quit the job at the ice cream place. Then, when he ran out of money about a month or so later, he got the job 30 minutes away. It was just after that that he destroyed our car. (his behavior a completely different issue and we are addressing that, so please keep this post about the money issue. He sees a psychologist, a therapist, AND a psychiatrist).  

We told him we did not approve of him getting a job in another town. And he needed to take care of his transportation. The job in the other town pays $13.50 an hour and has a $500 sign on bonus. He has to take uber or find someone to drive him. AND, if we end up driving him, he has to pay us. We are only charging him half of what Uber would charge. Remember this takes up almost an hour of our time every time one of us takes him. We are down to only one car for the entire family and I have to drive on toll roads which are highways to get there. The highways are rough on our only remaining car. Uber would charge him $30 for the trip (someone else told me this, my sister looked it up for me as I never use Uber and don't have their app or anything) so we charge him $15. The tolls alone per trip are $3. Then there is gas and wear and tear and the fact that I have to drop everything and spend an hour in the car to get him. I think it likely takes two gallons of gas at least so that is about $6. He really is not even paying the cost of us taking him.

We have driven him to work several times, but more than 4 times prior to July 26. He just got his paycheck and it was for the pay period of through July 25. The year to date pay matches what he was paid so this is his first pay check from them for sure. Yet, he was only paid for 6 hrs of work. I know he was at work. I track his phone. It would be a huge ruse for no apparent reason if he were faking going to work. All his friends live in our town or in the opposite direction of that town he works in. He wore work clothes and his phone was at this place AND when I pick him up, he smells like his work. He is NOT lying about being at work.  He works 4 hr shifts. 

He had a big thing coming up with friends next week and now he cannot go because he does not have the money. He seems to think the money will still come, but clearly not. The job he is doing is serving ice cream. He wants to borrow the money to pay for the event with his friends and he insists he just knows he will get paid for all those hours eventually. I think he needs to ask about his paycheck and if they do not rectify it, then they will not be rectifying. It is not like he could hire a lawyer and take him to court over the missing ...maybe $200. And he never got a sign on bonus, but of course, I would not expect him to get that until he has been there a while. 

My husband says we need to tell him no more rides from us at all. He says we should overrule him and tell him he does not get a choice in this matter, we will not be driving him. I feel like just continuing to charge him for the rides until he learns his lesson is the best way to go, or he will never connect that this is not just about us controlling him. He needs to see his choices and how to weigh his options. A job close to home that pays a little less is far better than a job far away that takes all his pay to get there. Then add to it, what should be done about the missing wages? I had this happen when I worked for JC Penney one holiday season and never could get my missing pay. 

What do you think is the best way to go about it..just tell him he has to quit? Or let him continue on until he realizes he has no money from this job?

Tell him to ask boss about his pay.

Let him find some other way to get to work not involving you or your vehicle (maybe he can borrow  a bike from a friend or carpool).  And let him learn himself, (or offer to sit down and help him analyze the financial situation if he’s open to that). 
 

if he wants to borrow money to go to a special event let him borrow from a friend

[mommyoffive]

5 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Because first, he got rides from friends. But then after a couple weeks, he came to us about an hour before work and said his friend cancelled. This has happened six times now.  So he owes us $90 just for transportation. He got paid $74 and some change. He also owes us for other things, plus for the car. My husband says cut him off, this is insane. And yeah, I think he is right. It is one thing if it is once a week and he can pay the money. But he did not even earn enough to cover the costs. I cannot homeschool the other kids if I am spending all my time and money driving him. Also, he is not in school. He feels he is adult enough to decide to be out of school. There is NOTHING I can do about that. I already tried every avenue I could think of. The school district will not help. He was not homeschooled for high school but rather dropped out of public school mid 10th grade.

I don't know anything about kids dropping out of school and if it is legal or not.  I also feel so bad about it because I am assuming that Covid could have been a big part of it.  When he dropped out in 10th grade wasn't he 15 or so?  Was it legal at that time?  Is there anyway that you can get him to get back into school?  GED?  Any alternative high school programs?  

It sounds like there is a lot more going on that you just not wanting to drive him to this job.  I am glad that he is seeing different professionals and I hope that he is getting the help and support that he needs.

 

[Pen]

17 minutes ago, Janeway said:

His therapist said we should have called the police and pressed charges. But that would have gotten US in to legal trouble. He is underage so we, the parents, would have been stuck with that bill too. We did take the keys, but he found them and took off anyway. He likes to manipulate the situation and say stuff like "but you said I could hang out with Camille." And we tell him again and again..but we did not say now, or yesterday, or last week, that you could take our car. We have taken to hiding the keys. But eventually, we use the car and he sees the keys out and he steals the car. Now the car is destroyed so that is a non-issue. And his criminal behavior is why he is seeing the therapist, psychologist, and psychiatrist. But beyond that, on the practical issue, my husband is right. I think we just need to tell him no more, not even for the $15. 

I don’t understand. 
 

It seems like following professional advice would be correct thing to do. 
 

 

[EKS]

18 minutes ago, Janeway said:

We did not allow him to take this job. He did it against our will. I couldn’t imagine taking a job in another town and expecting my parents to spend two hours a day in the car and pay tolls to drive me back and forth. Especially not after them telling me no.

This is exactly what I would say to him.  I'm honestly not sure why you wouldn't.  Are your afraid of what he will do?

13 minutes ago, Janeway said:

His therapist said we should have called the police and pressed charges.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't do this.  It didn't just happen one time.  You have to hide your keys.  That is ridiculous.

Obviously there is a lot going on here mental health wise.  But I don't think we do our children any favors when we shield them from the natural corrections that social systems deliver.

[Janeway]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

You have multiple issues in your post, not sure what you are asking advice on....

1. The paycheck issue: may be a cut-off on dates; I would ask him to contact HR or the owner or whomever and get that sorted out.

2. Loan the money for the weekend event or not, your call

3. Destroyed vehicle: this depends---

a. If he didn't have permission to drive it, he shouldn't have been driving it.

b. Continuing to be out longer than permissible should have been addressed at the time it happened.

c. A vehicle overheating---if he was driving an older vehicle, and he didn't understand the gauges or whatever, this could just be inexperience.  I suspect that at some point, when one of our kids is driving our 18 year old vehicle, it's going to break down.  The problem isn't that our kid happened to be driving it. It's that it's 18 years old.  So, I'd examine that.

d. If dropping down to one remaining vehicle is an issue, then decide if your family can afford another, or if you have to prioritize that vehicle for yourself as an adult.  If the answer is that that vehicle is not available for your ds to use, then be direct and tell him that.  It sounds like there's not much super clear communication happening at home based on what you've shared.

4.  I'd be blunt about him needing to find a job he can transport himself to. You sound unwilling and/or unable to drive him, so he needs to sort that out himself.

 

nt

Edited August 2, 2021 by Janeway

[teachermom2834]

There is way more going on here than the job situation. Maybe you are focused on that because the other stuff feels so big and out of control. I get that. 
 

You may not be able to see it clearly because of so much drama but you should absolutely not be driving him to this job. I can get soft with teens and I encourage employment and responsibility so if everything else was cool I can see driving on an occasion just as a nice gift to him or coming to the rescue so he doesn’t miss work in rare cases. However, none of that would be accompanied by things like “he is making us drive him” or demanding or anything like that. 
 

But you have a lot going on here and the job isn’t the biggest part of it. Sorry you are going through this and I am glad you are seeking professional support.

[Janeway]

47 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Amazon sells fingerprint safes for <$200. Put the keys in the safe. Then you, as a parent, have done your bit to secure access to the vehicle.

I don't know why the heck you would drive a kid who got a job without permission, who stole a car from you, and who is pressuring you to drive him. No means no, end of story, especially when you have trained professionals agreeing with you about the seriousness of the degree of his behaviors. 

Yes, he is going to be angry. Yes, there may be fall out. Yes, he might move out or make other choices for himself. At 17, your options are limited. Trust in the advice of the professionals advising your family (and maybe not ask here, because this is way over all of our heads because even if we are professionals in this area, we don't know the details of your circumstances, nor are we advising you in our professional capacities).

nt

Edited August 2, 2021 by Janeway

[Janeway]

47 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I don't know anything about kids dropping out of school and if it is legal or not.  I also feel so bad about it because I am assuming that Covid could have been a big part of it.  When he dropped out in 10th grade wasn't he 15 or so?  Was it legal at that time?  Is there anyway that you can get him to get back into school?  GED?  Any alternative high school programs?  

It sounds like there is a lot more going on that you just not wanting to drive him to this job.  I am glad that he is seeing different professionals and I hope that he is getting the help and support that he needs.

 

nt

Edited August 2, 2021 by Janeway

[mommyoffive]

Are you seeking support?  With all the issues that you just posted I think you need a support system in place on how to deal with everything going on.  I am not sure if his professionals are allowed to tell you things or not? 

[Drama Llama]

33 minutes ago, Janeway said:

We did not allow him to take this job. He did it against our will. I couldn’t imagine taking a job in another town and expecting my parents to spend two hours a day in the car and pay tolls to drive me back and forth. Especially not after them telling me no.

I am confused.  I would not drive by kid to something he was not allowed to go to.  If I told my kid “I don’t think it’s a good idea, but if you want to do it I will drive you there for $15” then that would be permission and being mad at my kid for doing something with my permission would be unfair.

I think it’s fine to say he can only have rides from you for two weeks, so he can give proper notice. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, Janeway said:

It is suicide I am scared of, since he already had an attempt.

Please work through these feelings with a therapist.

(And I am saying this as a person who lost an older relative to suicide).

One of the bits that they will educate you about is that this is a very common worry, and also how to deal with that.  There is a very, very common overlap between illegal drug use in teens and also those same teens have mental health issues, and either neurodiversity or learning issues or some other third way in which they were challenged. This is a stupidly common issue, and one in which we do not talk about enough because of shame. Parents feel like they will be described as bad parents or that they have failed their kids.

Your kid has a lot going on. The job, the school refusal, these are all just things that point to the underlying mental health concerns.  It shows that things aren't going well for him. I know that your kid has been hooked up to proper professionals, please do the same for yourself and the rest of your family.  This is affecting everyone in your family (as you know).  I saw in a previous thread of yours that your husband has checked out, mentally. That is also really common in complex scenarios like this.

I will also point out, as an aside, that when you have one or more children in a family with neurodiversity, often there is a genetic component, and many or all members of a family may be neurodiverse.  You may not have a good reference point for neurotypical behaviors if much of your family is neurodiverse. (IE Meltdowns, shutdowns, mood swings that may seem not-so-bad in your family would be judged as more severe behaviors by others). I think I'd want professional eyes on everybody so that if there are biochemical things going on (like bipolar) you can head things off in your younger children, or have more coaching about behavior management as a parent.

This is WAY beyond what any of us can advise you on, other than to point you to support in your community. 

[KSera]

 

1 hour ago, Janeway said:

It is suicide I am scared of, since he already had an attempt.

Did he have any inpatient treatment after that? He sounds at a point where residential treatment might be ideal. Even better if you find one that includes a DBT program. When does he turn 18? I can't encourage you enough to do everything you can to get him help now, as it's much, much less complicated before they turn 18. It doesn't sound like he's used to hearing any absolutes or ultimatums, or anything else he has to follow. That doesn't need to be in a punitive or unkind way in the least, just in a very matter of fact, "you're not making good decisions and this is what we're going to do to help you" kind of way. Perhaps his professionals can help with finding him a more intensive program? Whatever he's currently getting, doesn't seem to be sufficient (which isn't on them, it's just that for some situations, standard outpatient care isn't enough).

[Soror]

(hugs) parenting teens is hard and some are way harder than others. I hope you all get the help you need.

[Janeway]

25 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

Did he have any inpatient treatment after that? He sounds at a point where residential treatment might be ideal. Even better if you find one that includes a DBT program. When does he turn 18? I can't encourage you enough to do everything you can to get him help now, as it's much, much less complicated before they turn 18. It doesn't sound like he's used to hearing any absolutes or ultimatums, or anything else he has to follow. That doesn't need to be in a punitive or unkind way in the least, just in a very matter of fact, "you're not making good decisions and this is what we're going to do to help you" kind of way. Perhaps his professionals can help with finding him a more intensive program? Whatever he's currently getting, doesn't seem to be sufficient (which isn't on them, it's just that for some situations, standard outpatient care isn't enough).

I tried to take him to the hospital, but everything literally shut down in the middle of this. As in, went out to dinner with him. Came home and noticed something was wrong. Spent a few hours trying to figure out what was going on. Finally realized he had taken his entire bottle of antidepressants. I think dinner was early that evening because when we came home, that same evening, everything shut down. We called the doctor and she said to watch him closely but unless he actually stops breathing or something, he cannot go to the hospital. Things were very crazy in that moment of everything shutting down.

I tried to get him in to a facility in recent times and he was rejected due to either full capacity or places won't take someone with ASD. So, one place focused on drug rehab and mental health, but won't take people with ASD. We have to stick only with places on our insurance. Places that will take him with ASD, he will lie to them and make it clear at the intake interview that he will not work with them. I have been caught in this catch-22 for a long time. 

 

edited to add: maybe since he is being excluded from places that take people with ASD because he insists he does not have ASD and makes it clear to them he won't participate, maybe I should stop telling places he has ASD and send him to a place that excludes kids with ASD.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Janeway

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I tried to take him to the hospital, but everything literally shut down in the middle of this. As in, went out to dinner with him. Came home and noticed something was wrong. Spent a few hours trying to figure out what was going on. Finally realized he had taken his entire bottle of antidepressants. I think dinner was early that evening because when we came home, that same evening, everything shut down. We called the doctor and she said to watch him closely but unless he actually stops breathing or something, he cannot go to the hospital. Things were very crazy in that moment of everything shutting down.

I tried to get him in to a facility in recent times and he was rejected due to either full capacity or places won't take someone with ASD. So, one place focused on drug rehab and mental health, but won't take people with ASD. We have to stick only with places on our insurance. Places that will take him with ASD, he will lie to them and make it clear at the intake interview that he will not work with them. I have been caught in this catch-22 for a long time. 

 

edited to add: maybe since he is being excluded from places that take people with ASD because he insists he does not have ASD and makes it clear to them he won't participate, maybe I should stop telling places he has ASD and send him to a place that excludes kids with ASD.

I get the issue. One thing I don't know if you have tried, if you find a place that just isn't on your insurance but seems to be a fit otherwise, you can see if they will submit a single case agreement with your insurance company. That essentially means your insurance company negotiates a rate for them just for your ds, for this particular case, because there is no other option in network. We had to go this route, and it took some time, but they agreed to it. Having one of his health professionals write a letter saying why that particular program is what he needs can be very helpful. Once agreed to, they cover like it was in network.

Whether or not to leave out the ASD diagnosis depends on how important you think it is for them to know that in order to work effectively with him. It sounds like he may have some pretty common ASD stuff going on, so it would be ideal if they had that context.