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Son has Covid- need help- 7/31 Update


Lisa R.
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This is in no way a "mild" case of covid-19. The vast majority of cases of covid-19 are either asymptomatic or with cold or allergy like symptoms. Those are mild cases of covid. This case was beyond needing medical attention and could quickly have become a medical emergency. He should have been being monitored after being seen and given the Azithromycin prescription. Perhaps there isn't a virtual hospital there to follow patients being treated for Covid-19. 

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On 7/25/2021 at 6:29 PM, Ausmumof3 said:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-mask-plus-protocol/
 

I have not kept up with the science to know what the latest evidence on this is but this is from the MATH plus people.  I know the math plus hospital protocol has been published now but I’m not so sure about the at home one.   But just in case you’re interested.


I second this site!  Much More than just I-mask plus is on there now!

 

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

 

and

 

https://aapsonline.org/covidpatientguide/

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fritz said:

This is in no way a "mild" case of covid-19. The vast majority of cases of covid-19 are either asymptomatic or with cold or allergy like symptoms. Those are mild cases of covid. This case was beyond needing medical attention and could quickly have become a medical emergency. He should have been being monitored after being seen and given the Azithromycin prescription. Perhaps there isn't a virtual hospital there to follow patients being treated for Covid-19. 


I agree! “Mild” (eta separate from technical definition which may be relatively little help as a practical matter when someone is sick) in reality amongst most people I know who have had it has ranged from barely any symptoms at all (such as only noticed because as a contact of a “case” and therefore tested and the slightest of symptoms present for just a few hours were then thought  to have probably been symptoms), to a few hours to few days of very mild “cold” type symptoms.   (Eta: some people in NYC I know who had it early during the surge there did have “mild” in technical definition sense - but actually were very sick. It was something my family and friends tended to learn from and to seek help at first signs of significant problems ... not a one size fits all level, but if for example, personal normal O2 sat was 99% then if sick and it was only 96% that was recognized as a problem ; whereas if someone had a personal “normal” of 94% then 96% would be better than usual and that would be understood differently differently — rather than a one size fits all number.  Similar to temperatures that would be high for a particular individual even if not recognized as significant by triage HCW workers. I realize the OPs son may not have known what his normal was. And if too fatigued to do anything may not have been aware of diminishing breathing capacity unlike, say, boys on my ds track team who might realize that something was wrong with their personal breathing compared to their own personal normal even - if it seemed good to others.) 
 

These symptoms are more what I would consider “almost severe” (again in normal understanding sense, not technical definition)— just a little short of hospitalization level.  I think not giving significant early treatment at this sort of level in most places afaik (some exceptions like FLCCC) has been a major problem. 
 


 

There’s been a lot to indicate that CV is significantly  a circulatory system problem not respiratory. I hope that area will get looked at by OP family and get early treatment if needed as well as the double pneumonia — and also “cytokine storm” potential issues. 

 

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

 

https://aapsonline.org/covidpatientguide/

 

 

have been extremely helpful for people I know!!! 

 

and some Dr Been interviews have had doctors from around world using various protocols to treat cv. 

 

Edited by Pen
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42 minutes ago, Fritz said:

This is in no way a "mild" case of covid-19. The vast majority of cases of covid-19 are either asymptomatic or with cold or allergy like symptoms. Those are mild cases of covid. This case was beyond needing medical attention and could quickly have become a medical emergency. He should have been being monitored after being seen and given the Azithromycin prescription. Perhaps there isn't a virtual hospital there to follow patients being treated for Covid-19. 

The symptoms as described in the OP do in fact meet the criteria of "mild covid" as per NIH, because there was no report of breathing difficulties. That's what distinguishes "mild" covid from "moderate" covid, and then "severe" covid = O2 sat <94%, 30+ breaths/minute, or lung infiltrates >50%. 

A lot of people misinterpret the claim that "the vast majority of covid cases are mild to moderate" to mean "no worse than a mild cold," but that is not the medical definition. People can feel really really ill, even for weeks, and still be counted as having "mild to moderate" symptoms. 

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Yeah, my dh and I both felt the same way her ds did for over 2 weeks. Dh ended up with pneumonia. We had great care from our doctors but it was so rough.

I'm hoping that with mom and dad looking after the Op's son he will feel better quickly. This is not an illness that anyone needs to try to fight on their own. Just finding the energy to go to the bathroom was difficult on my worst days, much less finding something nourishing to eat. 

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34 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The symptoms as described in the OP do in fact meet the criteria of "mild covid" as per NIH, because there was no report of breathing difficulties. That's what distinguishes "mild" covid from "moderate" covid, and then "severe" covid = O2 sat <94%, 30+ breaths/minute, or lung infiltrates >50%. 

A lot of people misinterpret the claim that "the vast majority of covid cases are mild to moderate" to mean "no worse than a mild cold," but that is not the medical definition. People can feel really really ill, even for weeks, and still be counted as having "mild to moderate" symptoms. 

Shout this louder for the people in the back, please!! 
 

Yes, you can get pneumonia and be sick for a couple of months and still be categorized as mild disease per guidelines. 611,000 people have died in the US from covid. Severe disease looks like intubation, multiple clots, organ distress (like kidney failure), and so on.

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This young man was very sick. He needed medical care, which he received and is receiving now…it sounds like a confluence of factors, including him being TOO SICK to advocate for himself made the hospital in his home town not the best situation.

The medical classifications don’t mean much when it is your family member who has a “mild” illness but is still too sick to adequately care for himself.

Maybe instead of quibbling over the classification, it would be better to consider the actual sick person and how they are presenting…which I think Lisa had the right instinct…her son was very sick and needed care beyond what he could provide himself.

Lisa, I hope he is doing better, and you and the rest of the family are good too.

Edited by pinball
Lisa! Darn autofill
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9 minutes ago, pinball said:

This young man was very sick. He needed medical care, which he received and is receiving now…it sounds like a confluence of factors, including him being TOO SICK to advocate for himself made the hospital in his home town not the best situation.

The medical classifications don’t mean much when it is your family member who has a “mild” illness but is still too sick to adequately care for himself.

Maybe instead of quibbling over the classification, it would be better to consider the actual sick person and how they are presenting…which I think Lisa had the right instinct…her son was very sick and needed care beyond what he could provide himself.

Lisa, I hope he is doing better, and you and the rest of the family are good too.

No one disputes that mild COVID can be very, very serious.  It’s just frustration that some people think “mild” means no big deal.  This case shows clearly that this isn’t true. 

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20 minutes ago, Lawyer&amp;Mom said:

No one disputes that mild COVID can be very, very serious.  It’s just frustration that some people think “mild” means no big deal.  This case shows clearly that this isn’t true. 

Right, that’s what I gather people are saying here. He clearly was very ill and I even said in my initial post on this thread that I would be getting him to the hospital if it were me. But I think it’s important that people understand what is meant when Covid cases are classified. Mild doesn’t mean the same thing it does to us. It sounds like wherever Lisa’s son is, he is one of the areas where hospitals are overwhelmed. The more Covid patients there are, the more ill someone needs to be in order to be admitted.

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I hope Lisa’s son is home by now, and that the long car ride wasn’t too awful for him. I know that when I’m sick, car rides are 🤮.

Praying that no one else in the family catches Covid, and that Lisa’s son will start feeling much better very soon, now that he has his mom to take care of him!

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12 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I’m pretty sure “severe” means you’re in the ICU on a vent. Not checked out and sent home.

A person is lucky they are on a vent in the ICU with severe covid. Being in a morgue is the other option.

When are people going to learn? What's it going to take???

Bill

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21 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The symptoms as described in the OP do in fact meet the criteria of "mild covid" as per NIH, because there was no report of breathing difficulties. That's what distinguishes "mild" covid from "moderate" covid, and then "severe" covid = O2 sat <94%, 30+ breaths/minute, or lung infiltrates >50%. 

A lot of people misinterpret the claim that "the vast majority of covid cases are mild to moderate" to mean "no worse than a mild cold," but that is not the medical definition. People can feel really really ill, even for weeks, and still be counted as having "mild to moderate" symptoms. 


I absolutely agree with you about the technical definitions.

 

However when someone asks something like “Is this normal” for cv19 my sense of “mild” shifts to ordinary understanding of the word and an emphasis thinking about what “should” be being done.


I also think a “one size fits all” approach and understanding is absurd.

For example, one older person I know with some chronic health issues, oxygen sat is typically around 95 so that 94 would not be a significant decline. Yet for my own son who is almost as old as op’s son, normal for him is consistently 99% saturation  - for him 97% would be abnormal and indicate impairment even if standard medical practitioners would not recognize that as a problem, we would know that it is impaired and time to seek care in some form. 
 

I have been following several of the early treatment protocols concepts and what @Lisa R. described was not by any means in the oh yes that’s all “normal” for this illness category either in relation to what people I know have been experiencing since the first NYC surge caught people unawares, nor what should have been allowed to progress without much earlier intervention as per the various early treatment protocols I have been following. 

I have blended some of the concepts from various ones for my own family. 

Even some of the more “watch and see” if the ill person is healthy and under 50 have some minimal plans that go into effect right away, (such as D3 and Zinc in the flow chart below - though my own family would do more than that -) and more significant treatment if the illness increases or reaches day 5 still sick. 
 

Possibly the “people I know” irl are no longer having significant and long lasting yet still technically “mild” cases because they are following one or another (or combination) early treatment protocol rather than just accepting the idea that 10 days of feeling really sick is “normal” with this.  
 

on the flow chart I circled parts that I would be looking at for a young healthy individual as described in the op.  I would also be urging the young adult offspring to have their vitamin D and its many cofactors, also selenium etc optimum in first place not to start trying to play catch up after illness starts. And in our family we tend to take various other things (vitamin C, a higher dose of D3 (and ADEK group) etc at first sign of sickness quite aside from CV19), as do the majority of my holistic and organic farming etc oriented friends. (This was also different for people I knew from NYC who got quite sick early - very different foods, lifestyles, and health orientation in first place.) 

 

Eta: source for the flow chart is the AAPS patient booklet that I linked in a previous post.  And it is itself an adaptation from Peter McCollough MD that his team was using . There may be more recent updates to this as I downloaded it much earlier in the pandemic. 
 

 

355AFD52-0488-417F-8B2C-80BB02159FD8.jpeg

Edited by Pen
To give a Source credit / and say that there may be updated version for flow chart
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  • Lisa R. changed the title to Son has Covid- need help- Update in OP

Praying for your son's recovery and healing. And for strength for your family. I'm glad y'all were able to get him home to take care of him and I hope he won't need to go to your hospital.

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So glad you were able to get him home!  Every Mom instinct I had was screaming for this.  Keep us posted...with folks keeping him hydrated and fed as much as possible, and easier healthcare access, I am confident he will pull through.  Even a "mild" case of this virus is no walk in the park.

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So, so happy that he is home and with you,  and that you will be able to monitor him and take him to the hospital if needed.  Good job getting him home, he needed his parents!

And … 15 lbs.  Oh my.  😰

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I'm so glad you were able to bring him home, and that there is good medical care available close by. Although hopefully he'll be able to recover at home and won't need further treatment. So glad you are able to get some food into him!

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Thanks for taking the time to update. I’m so glad you have him home and that he has a doctor over seeing his care and the availability of a higher level of care in the hopefully unlikely event that he should need it. I hope he starts feeling better from here. Getting food into him and some weight back on him will hopefully really help his energy levels a lot.

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Thanks for the update.  

If he can, our doctor suggests laying on his stomach as many hours a day as possible.   That seems to keep the lungs clearer.

Glad you can monitor O2 as well.

 

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I am so glad he made it home to you guys.  I am sure that is going to help him recover.  I am glad you can keep such a close eye on him incase he needs to go to the hospital.  Sending lots of good thoughts his way that he recovers and feels better soon.  

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Many hugs your way.

I think it was mentioned earlier but can't remember for certain. Make sure his hands aren't cold when testing his pulse ox. Ds had Covid last fall. We ended up taking him to the ER because his pulse ox was testing in the low 90s, high 80s. Come to find out his pulse ox was fine it didn't read accurately due to him being in the basement and his hands being cold. 

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Thinking about your family, Lisa. I’m glad he’s under your roof and has your hands on care now. It’s hard to make great decisions when you’re so so sick. He’s lucky he has you. I hope he turns the corner soon 

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  • Lisa R. changed the title to Son has Covid- need help- 7/31 Update

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