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Because I posted about Britney Spears, adding this link fromProPublica. 

The Investigative Reporting Behind America's Obsession with Britney Spears' Conservatorship

This article references a LA Times investigative report into conservatorships from the early 2000s that support many of the concerns raised about Britney's conservatorship. 

Quote

Our stories explained that the system was designed to help families protect enfeebled relatives from predators and self-neglect. In such cases, courts took basic freedoms from grown men and women and gave conservators sweeping power over their money and the smallest details of their lives.

This recent NYT article discusses how difficult it is to restore legal rights. 

I've been following this on Twitter for the last several weeks and I've noticed some very disturbing things. First, there is a common assumption that disabled people do not deserve the same human rights as everyone else. People are starting to post about how Britney's instagram posts show she's "crazy," or whatever armchair diagnosis they come up so needs the conservatorship. 

Second, Britney's recent instagram pictures where she holds her naked breasts has lead to concern trolling and more armchair diagnoses of mental illness. I'm old enough to remember "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty." Why is it still news in 2021 that an adult woman posts a provocative photo on Instagram? Jamie Spears' lawyer made a comment about Britney's "hysteria" in one of the recent hearings. That taps into a long history of women dismissed as "hysterical." 

Britney doesn't need anyone's help now because she's got her own expensive bulldog lawyer. My interest here is more about what this case says about disability rights and misogyny. Another thing that seems obvious to me is that people must avoid getting help for mental health issues out of the fear of ending up in this system. 

A bill was recently introduced in Congress to address conservatorships. Some in the #FreeBritney movement claim that this bill would make things worse. I haven't studied this enough to form my own opinion about it. 

I learned on Twitter about a case from the early 2010s of a young women with Downs Syndrome who challenged a guardianship. She prevailed in court and her attorneys created an organization that advocates for the rights of disabled people in court.

 

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21 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

 

Britney doesn't need anyone's help now because she's got her own expensive bulldog lawyer. My interest here is more about what this case says about disability rights and misogyny. Another thing that seems obvious to me is that people must avoid getting help for mental health issues out of the fear of ending up in this system. 

 

 

I have so much I would like to say about this issue but am very hesitant, having just had a front row seat to something similar involving money but much less of it!  (Fortunately I am married to my own bulldog lawyer.) 

 I heard Tucker Carlson talking about the Britney Spears case recently.  He said that it's all about the money because society doesn't care about the mentally ill people living on the street who will "wipe their butts on your front lawn".   

I agree with him, and I also agree with you, Ordinary Shoes, that misogyny is involved as well.    I have an example of this that I feel more comfortable sharing because it happened so long ago.  My father was terminally ill, and he and my mother were making plans.  They had an unfortunate experience with a man at a bank who was trying to convince my father that my mother would just be irresponsible with money and remarry so he should tie up the finances somehow to take control away from her.  My father basically told him to go to hell.  And again, we're not talking about great wealth here like in the Britney Spears case but still a man thinking a woman isn't fit to manage money herself.  

I just want to add that there's a new alternative to guardianship called Supported Decision Making.  I really hope this will become the norm rather than the exception, when necessary, very soon!  https://informingfamilies.org/sdm/

 

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

 

I learned on Twitter about a case from the early 2010s of a young women with Downs Syndrome who challenged a guardianship. She prevailed in court and her attorneys created an organization that advocates for the rights of disabled people in court.

 

I came back to read the links you provided, and I see that this has information about Supported Decision Making.  Thank you for including this!

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no comment on spears or her situation. no comment on who can/should control money.

came to say similar thing that Laurie mentioned about Supported Decision Making exists in some situations. 

If random person reading is in state of TN and needs more information for this option as your special needs child transitions from high school age to adult...  try here https://www.tndecisionmaking.org/

an archived overview webinar can be found here https://transitiontn.org/center-for-decision-making-support/

 

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I recently sat through a seminar about alternatives to guardianship. It seems to be a movement at the moment, at least in my state. I think the term is Supported Decision-Making. It attempts to bring help to individuals without removing independence. It's more flexible. 

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23 minutes ago, LostSurprise said:

I recently sat through a seminar about alternatives to guardianship. It seems to be a movement at the moment, at least in my state. I think the term is Supported Decision-Making. It attempts to bring help to individuals without removing independence. It's more flexible. 

There is a big push for that here as well.....but covid brought up issues with that.....no guardianship papers, NO getting into the hospital with your special needs child over 18.

Also, a lady that manages some of the home help for individuals with special needs said that legally, if there is no guardianship they have to go based on what the individual says, even if they know it isn't totally accurate.

I struggle with this as I don't want to take right away from my kids but they need the safety net of guardianship as well.

Also, I don't think supported decision making will negate any legal contracts they sign, financial issues They get into, etc.    It is easy for others to prey on those that are disabled but look more "normal"  and scam them.

No easy answers.

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While they are working on this, I hope they regulate professional guardians/conservators. That can end up in a big mess, especially with elderly people & people who receive disability benefits. 

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12 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Because I posted about Britney Spears, adding this link fromProPublica. 

The Investigative Reporting Behind America's Obsession with Britney Spears' Conservatorship

This article references a LA Times investigative report into conservatorships from the early 2000s that support many of the concerns raised about Britney's conservatorship. 

This recent NYT article discusses how difficult it is to restore legal rights. 

I've been following this on Twitter for the last several weeks and I've noticed some very disturbing things. First, there is a common assumption that disabled people do not deserve the same human rights as everyone else. People are starting to post about how Britney's instagram posts show she's "crazy," or whatever armchair diagnosis they come up so needs the conservatorship. 

Second, Britney's recent instagram pictures where she holds her naked breasts has lead to concern trolling and more armchair diagnoses of mental illness. I'm old enough to remember "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty." Why is it still news in 2021 that an adult woman posts a provocative photo on Instagram? Jamie Spears' lawyer made a comment about Britney's "hysteria" in one of the recent hearings. That taps into a long history of women dismissed as "hysterical." 

Britney doesn't need anyone's help now because she's got her own expensive bulldog lawyer. My interest here is more about what this case says about disability rights and misogyny. Another thing that seems obvious to me is that people must avoid getting help for mental health issues out of the fear of ending up in this system. 

A bill was recently introduced in Congress to address conservatorships. Some in the #FreeBritney movement claim that this bill would make things worse. I haven't studied this enough to form my own opinion about it. 

I learned on Twitter about a case from the early 2010s of a young women with Downs Syndrome who challenged a guardianship. She prevailed in court and her attorneys created an organization that advocates for the rights of disabled people in court.

 

Seriously? I can’t open the Internet without one part or another of Kardashian’s naked body popping into my screen. By that definition Kim needs to be locked up at an asylum. 🙄

 

I always err on the side of rights. Always. I understand that with dementia and other illnesses that wipe out memory or certain conditions were a person can’t care for themselves, it might be necessary. But a bipolar disorder prompting this? Unbelievable to me. We have a right to be mentally sick.   

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6 hours ago, TechWife said:

While they are working on this, I hope they regulate professional guardians/conservators. That can end up in a big mess, especially with elderly people & people who receive disability benefits. 

At least with my kids who get SSI or SSDI, I have to account for every dollar of that money spent and report it yearly.   And with the amounts being what they are $300-800/month, by the time you apply it to their bills there isn't much, if any, left.

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