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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think the only way to have that statistic be different is to have people get married in their teens, like they do in the Orthodox Jewish community. Young people are horny, lol. Nothing to be done about that. 

I'm personally not comfortable with that option, but I think it's the realistic option if you want MOST people to wait for marriage. 

Just like to mention most Orthodox Jews do not get married in their teens. Within the non-Chassidic groups the typical ages for marriage are 19-20 (women) and 21-22 (men). In Chassidic Judaism (sub section of Orthodoxy) it is 18-19 (women) and 20-21 (men).  But yes, within normative Orthodox Judaism, early marriage is encouraged, especially because there is no physical contact at all between non-related people of different genders before marriage. No kissing, no hugging, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Those aren't the only two options tho.

2a. having mediocre/great sex with someone who doesn't prioritize/prioritizes your needs.

3. You have sex after a long time and realize the emotional attachment won't overcome sexual incompatibility

4. You have protected sex early on, discover its awful, and move on.

Well, you can tell if someone doesn't prioritize your needs in other ways...generally a truly kind, caring person isn't going to become suddenly selfish in bed. 

Protected sex isn't care free...I've had condoms break, I've had birth control fail. Which is why I advise my children not to do something that can lead to pregnancy with someone you can't handle an accidental pregnancy with. So that's why I don't advise sex in a more casual relationship, early on. 

#3 is one I personally can't fathom, but I get it is something you do fathom. 

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7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, you can tell if someone doesn't prioritize your needs in other ways...generally a truly kind, caring person isn't going to become suddenly selfish in bed. 

Protected sex isn't care free...I've had condoms break, I've had birth control fail. Which is why I advise my children not to do something that can lead to pregnancy with someone you can't handle an accidental pregnancy with. So that's why I don't advise sex in a more casual relationship, early on. 

#3 is one I personally can't fathom, but I get it is something you do fathom. 

Yeah, I'm not so sure. Sex, to me, seems like a different animal and you do not know what influences someone's approach to it without asking directly. Of course sex without commitment is never entirely carefree but neither is sex within a committed/marital relationship either. Children are expensive and can do a number on your health, finances. I don't know a whole lot of people who are/were so careless with their sexuality that the people they hooked up with wouldn't have made decent parents. One of my acquaintances became pregnant in college and gave birth. She moved in to married housing and still graduated.They may not have been the right long term partners but her baby's father wasn't a total douchebag who'd jet at the first sign of trouble. There's a range of possibilities.

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44 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

4. You have protected sex early on, discover its awful, and move on.

But I would suggest that for many of us , our first time is less than spectacular, maybe even bad. See my earlier post.  Move on? Feeling broken ??? If I had done that in high school and failed at penetration that boy would have left me!!! I guess I am not compatible with him. And sex would have been ruined for me.  ( I read tons of books beforehand btw)  But by having it with my husband, we figured it out together. He has never made me feel broken. My sex life isn’t ruined. 

And sSneezyzone, I am glad you found compatibility, but that is something my husband and I had to work on. He thought if I didn’t have an orgasm, he was a failure. I felt so much pressure, especially when on anti-depressents.  He had to accept that I felt satisfied without it.  The more I feel I have to to be successful, the worse it is.  Way too much pressure for me. I am feeling like you are saying I am not a true woman for feeling that way. 

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Most people having sex outside of a marriage aren't having it to figure out a potential marriage partner. 

For most people it's just a normal part of non-married relationships and/or recreational. 

 

Edited by Melissa Louise
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9 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

But I would suggest that for many of us , our first time is less than spectacular, maybe even bad. See my earlier post.  Move on? Feeling broken ??? If I had done that in high school and failed at penetration that boy would have left me!!! I guess I am not compatible with him. And sex would have been ruined for me.  ( I read tons of books beforehand btw)  But by having it with my husband, we figured it out together. He has never made me feel broken. My sex life isn’t ruined. 

And sSneezyzone, I am glad you found compatibility, but that is something my husband and I had to work on. He thought if I didn’t have an orgasm, he was a failure. I felt so much pressure, especially when on anti-depressents.  He had to accept that I felt satisfied without it.  The more I feel I have to to be successful, the worse it is.  Way too much pressure for me. I am feeling like you are saying I am not a true woman for feeling that way. 

I'm sorry that happened for you. That could have happened in HS, college, upon marriage and any time in between tho. I feel like that was a failure of PREPARATION tho, not of the act. It's what I hope to avoid both from a male and female perspective by discussing realistic expectations and preferences openly. I have ZERO issues with people who want to work on it together, working on it together. I also have ZERO patience for the idea that women should regularly accept less than orgasm after working on it/trying things out, whether that's before or after marriage. You do what works for you tho. Period. Full stop. 

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My sister is someone who says she thinks it’s good to have no premarital sex, because she feels like her premarital sex situations were ones where she was taken advantage of (in retrospect), or were very poor for her emotionally.  She agrees with church messages that say that is inevitable.  
 

I honestly do not feel like I had either bad experiences, or experiences that cheapened my sexual relationship with my husband.

My sister honestly feels like she did.

It leaves me thinking — I can see both sides.  

I don’t think it’s automatically the case that premarital sex will lead to heartache and cheapening the marital relationship, but I think it’s possible.

I have some ideas/opinions about things that were different between the kind of relationships my sister and I had, but I don’t know that there is not some element of chance involved.  
 

I can say I don’t think I ever had sex trying to make someone like me, and I think my sister did, sigh.  I think that is a pretty big difference.  We are also 11 years apart in age and were raised very differently, I would say I had a positive male influence in my life, and I don’t think she said.  

 

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1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Most people having sex outside of a marriage aren't having it to figure out a potential marriage partner. 

 

True. But in my eyes it isnt safe. I could get pregnant.  I need commitment for that. Being that intimate is SO vulnerable.  I don’t get being that open eoth more tgan one person. Hard enough for me in a committed relationship 

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Just now, TexasProud said:

True. But in my eyes it isnt safe. I could get pregnant.  I need commitment for that. Being that intimate is SO vulnerable.  I don’t get being that open eoth more tgan one person. Hard enough for me in a committed relationship 

Well, just because you have unmarried sex doesn't mean you have multiple sexual partners on the go. 

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2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I'm sorry that happened for you. That could have happened in HS, college, upon marriage and any time in between tho. I feel like that was a failure of PREPARATION tho, not of the act. It's what I hope to avoid both from a male and female perspective by discussing realistic expectations. I have ZERO issues with people who want to work on it together, working on it together. I also have ZERO patience for the idea that women should accept less than success after working on it/trying things out, whether that's before or after marriage. ou do what works for you. Period. Full stop. 

I am sorry. I am fine for settling less than success. I don’t want to work on it. My choice. ( Not all the time, maybe 30 percent. though. )

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1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Well, just because you have unmarried sex doesn't mean you have multiple sexual partners on the go. 

Forget sbout multiple. Even 1 isn’t safe in my eyes. Not willing to support me in marriage, not safe.

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6 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I am sorry. I am fine for settling less than success. I don’t want to work on it. My choice. ( Not all the time, maybe 30 percent. though. )

This makes me so sad. Have I upset you? Not my intent. I think I was VERY spoiled by my first relationship. There were certainly awkward moments initially but we got into a groove very quickly. I also never had an intimate relationship with someone that wouldn't make a good dad and by the time my friends and I were active, we were collegians and had self-support options. Marriage, to me, has always been a bonus, not a state of security. Don't apologize for feeling your feelings.

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1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Forget sbout multiple. Even 1 isn’t safe in my eyes. Not willing to support me in marriage, not safe.

Well, probably sensible, especially if abortion isn't an option for you. 

Too bad for those who don't find someone willing to support them in marriage, though, if this sensible individual choice became standard. 

A lifetime of celibacy and no kids is pretty harsh. 

 

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1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

Just like to mention most Orthodox Jews do not get married in their teens. Within the non-Chassidic groups the typical ages for marriage are 19-20 (women) and 21-22 (men). In Chassidic Judaism (sub section of Orthodoxy) it is 18-19 (women) and 20-21 (men).  But yes, within normative Orthodox Judaism, early marriage is encouraged, especially because there is no physical contact at all between non-related people of different genders before marriage. No kissing, no hugging, etc.

Sorry, I know I was conflating all sorts of groups! My bad, I should have been more specific. 

My Orthodox sisters in Israel got married in their teens, I think, although I suppose it could have been early 20s. I'm not sure if their husbands were a bit older. 

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9 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Well, probably sensible, especially if abortion isn't an option for you. 

Too bad for those who don't find someone willing to support them in marriage, though, if this sensible individual choice became standard. 

A lifetime of celibacy and no kids is pretty harsh. 

 

I suppose, though being a single mom, raising a kid by myself and possibly living in poverty as a result seems pretty harsh. 

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14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This makes me so sad. Have I upset you? Not my intent. I think I was VERY spoiled by my first relationship. There were certainly awkward moments initially but we got into a groove very quickly. I also never had an intimate relationship with someone that wouldn't make a good dad and by the time my friends and I were active, we were collegians and had self-support options. Marriage, to me, has always been a bonus, not a state of security. Don't apologize for feeling your feelings.

Not you. I am sure it is me. I like being seen as successful I guess. Just my own quirkiness.  You did nothing wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

I don't know a whole lot of people who are/were so careless with their sexuality that the people they hooked up with wouldn't have made decent parents.

I think that is unusual. I know LOTS of people that have hooked up with someone who ended up being a jerk, etc. Heck, I have! 

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Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I've definitely hooked up with unsuitable partners, lol. 

And in one case with me, it turned into a baby and a marriage that was bad. 

I was planning on breaking up with him...had we not been sexually active I would have. Instead, we raise a child. 

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I don’t think it’s completely equal odds to have sex with a jerk or marry a jerk.

But marrying someone is no guarantee that it isn’t going to be a jerk.  
 

It prevents *some* bad decisions, but not all.
 

 

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On 7/25/2021 at 6:03 PM, ktgrok said:

If your personalities mesh, and you love each other, I can't see sex being a deal breaker. I mean, if I'm dating a guy who I love and trust and have respect for, am I going to break up with him because he's not terrific at oral? No, I'm going to explain what I want - it's a skill that can be learned, lol. 

Sexual compatibility can change, as well. You might be totally compatible in your 20s and then hormones change, or illness or injuries happen, or depression, or whatever and you no longer are. Are you going to freaking divorce an amazing spouse because of that? No, you work through it. 

But seriously, most of it is skill that can be taught/learned.

Providing of course that one's partner is willing to learn which you think you could figure out by talking but sometimes what a person is actually willing to do is not the same as what they say. Of course then you would have more than just a sex problem but again I am of the opinion that that is better to learn before a marriage.

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22 minutes ago, Lecka said:

My sister is someone who says she thinks it’s good to have no premarital sex, because she feels like her premarital sex situations were ones where she was taken advantage of (in retrospect), or were very poor for her emotionally.

That's my opinion and definitely jealous of my husband's 100% celibacy coming into our relationship. I also realize my view comes from personal experiences which may be unusual. But it's the experience that my mother and I had so I'll probably tell my daughter this too. 

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6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And in one case with me, it turned into a baby and a marriage that was bad. 

I was planning on breaking up with him...had we not been sexually active I would have. Instead, we raise a child. 

I suppose one's attitude to abortion matters here. 

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Just now, ktgrok said:

I think that is unusual. I know LOTS of people that have hooked up with someone who ended up being a jerk, etc. Heck, I have! 

Yes.  I worked at 6 Flags as a costume character.  I was 20. Other than my manager , everyone else was 15-17.  It was a locker room atmosphere. One 16yo boy bragged about all of his experiences. One day we were heading out and he was shaking his head and saying he couldn’t believe one of our coworkers ( 15) was still a virgin.  I said, “So what, so am I !” 

 

His eyes got big and he said, “Oh, is it religious reasons?’

”Well that is a small part. Birth control isn’t 100 percent and I don’t have time to have a baby. I have too many things I want to do”

He looked at me, “Wow. That is a good point. I never thought of it that way….”

Ughh having sex and never thought or cared about the consequences? But yes, I was an oddball in high school. My parents were not Christians. I wasn’t going to church at that tine. For me, it was much more practical. 

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18 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I think that is unusual. I know LOTS of people that have hooked up with someone who ended up being a jerk, etc. Heck, I have! 

My sample size is definitely skewed by my circle. All of our parents were religious and conservative. My one friend got PG at 15 (her BF'd been in love with her since...FOREVER!), married baby's dad and had two more kids after several years. She's a RE agent and he's a RE investor/works in construction. They're well off and neither went to college. Even my childhood friend who got PG at 13 (CSA) ultimately supported her kiddo to adulthood. She's married now too and doing well. Her kiddo is self-sufficient. I don't have a bunch of horror stories for reference.

 

...UNLESS I consider my stepmom's family. Woah. There are a lot there. They don't have a history of prioritizing education.

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5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I suppose one's attitude to abortion matters here. 

True, but that's not without emotional upheaval, especially if the would be father disagrees with the choice. Ugh. I've known people in that situation as well. 

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13 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Way worse things in life than single motherhood. 

I suppose, but motherhood was very hard for me, even with a husband. I don’t think I would have survived as a single mom on my own. 

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5 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I suppose, but motherhood was very hard for me, even with a husband. I don’t think I would have survived as a single mom on my own. 

Yes, I'm all for people making the (legal) choices around sex that work best for them as individuals. 

I would hate, though, to go back to atone of immense social stigma around non-marital sex. That wasn't any Golden Age

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2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yes, I'm all for people making the (legal) choices around sex that work best for them as individuals. 

I would hate, though, to go back to atone of immense social stigma around non-marital sex. That wasn't any Golden Age

This I totally agree with. Again, I don't see it as a moral issue to shame someone over, but a practical issue, more like buying a car or taking out a motgage. 

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8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

True, but that's not without emotional upheaval, especially if the would be father disagrees with the choice. Ugh. I've known people in that situation as well. 

It's a lot less emotional upheaval than the alternative! (The most common post-abortion feeling is relief). 

Would-be father's don't get any input here; is that different in the States?

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51 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I am sorry. I am fine for settling less than success. I don’t want to work on it. My choice. ( Not all the time, maybe 30 percent. though. )

I don’t know what my percentage is other than a minority because I’m not keeping much of a tally but I’m with you except I know that this is success and perfectly normal for any sexual relationship, certain at times for one that has lasted 30 years.

28 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I think that is unusual. I know LOTS of people that have hooked up with someone who ended up being a jerk, etc. Heck, I have! 

That’s the majority of what I know of. Lots and lots of collateral relationship damage.   And yep. Me too back before husband. 

27 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Way worse things in life than single motherhood. 

Well there’s way worse things in life than celibacy or not having orgasm every time too.

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2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's a lot less emotional upheaval than the alternative! (The most common post-abortion feeling is relief). 

Would-be father's don't get any input here; is that different in the States?

I have known people who were relieved to be no longer pregnant, but they certainly would have preferred to avoid the whole thing. As in, it was the right choice, but still not an enjoyable thing to have gone through. 

And I've known women to regret it for decades. Both were pressured by the fathers to get the abortion - that's a pretty common scenario from what I know. 

The father can't make the decision, but he can sure make life hard for the woman. 

And speaking of the men, because they don't have a legal say in the matter is another reason not to do babymaking activities with someone they are not on the same page with regarding the consequences. 

 

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2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I have known people who were relieved to be no longer pregnant, but they certainly would have preferred to avoid the whole thing. As in, it was the right choice, but still not an enjoyable thing to have gone through. 

This has been my experience. perhaps because all have gone on to have kids with other partners/spouses on their preferred timeline.

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3 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Not the ones I know. They had a lot of emotional fall out. 

How much of that impact is from cultural expectations around expressing guilt/sorrow, though? 

I mean, who is going to get 'forgiven' for their transgression more readily - the woman who says 'thank goodness that's done, I feel so relieved!' or the one who expresses a willingness to engage in self-punishing emotions? 

Anyway, this is a s/o topic. Plenty of abortions taking place within marriage. It's not confined to pre-marital sex. 

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8 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t know what my percentage is other than a minority because I’m not keeping much of a tally but I’m with you except I know that this is success and perfectly normal for any sexual relationship, certain at times for one that has lasted 30 years.

OMGEE. Staaahhhp. Grinning and bearing it every fourth day for 30 years isn't a badge of honor.

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4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I have known people who were relieved to be no longer pregnant, but they certainly would have preferred to avoid the whole thing. As in, it was the right choice, but still not an enjoyable thing to have gone through. 

And I've known women to regret it for decades. Both were pressured by the fathers to get the abortion - that's a pretty common scenario from what I know. 

The father can't make the decision, but he can sure make life hard for the woman. 

And speaking of the men, because they don't have a legal say in the matter is another reason not to do babymaking activities with someone they are not on the same page with regarding the consequences. 

 

Well of course it's not enjoyable. Life long regret isn't common though. 

Coerced abortion is a different kettle of fish, but I'm not sure that one avoids coercion just by getting married. Plenty of coercion takes place in marriages.

 

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13 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

OMGEE. Staaahhhp. Grinning and bearing it every fourth day for 30 years isn't a badge of honor.

I have to say, there's a long way from "no orgasm" to "grin and bear it," lol. For me, they are actually not particularly correlated (although I'm with you on acceptable percentages...) 

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4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I have to say, there's a long way from "no orgasm" to "grin and bear it," lol. For me, they are actually not particularly correlated (although I'm with you on acceptable percentages...) 

For me, anything short of completion is 'grin and bear it' lol. Where's my reward? I mentioned this thread to DH and he just sent me laughing emojis. This does not compute for us.

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3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

For me, anything short of completion is 'grin and bear it' lol. Where's my reward? I mentioned this thread to DH and he just sent me laughing emojis. This does not compute for us.

Hah, I dunno, sometimes it's fun with or without! Although I certainly do prefer with. (But I don't mind contributing to that outcome, lol.) 

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28 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

OMGEE. Staaahhhp. Grinning and bearing it every fourth day for 30 years isn't a badge of honor.

Who said I am grinning and bearing it???? My body just will not cooperate sometimes. It is still fun. There is SO much more to sex than just an O.  I am LOVING it. I just cannot do it. That doesnt mean I have failed or am less of a woman or somehow broken

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7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Who said I am grinning and bearing it???? My body just will not cooperate sometimes. It is still fun. There is SO much more to sex than just an O.  I am LOVING it. I just cannot do it. That doesnt mean I have failed or am less of a woman or somehow broken

Listen, our bodies are made to be loved/pleasured (hetero-, homo-, whatever). The inability to climax isn't a personal failure but it is, IMO, problematic. Maybe there are some deprogramming issues that need to be addressed. Maybe there is a relational issue that needs to be addressed. Maybe there is a physical issue that needs to be addressed. The idea that we, as women, are BROKEN when climax doesn't regularly happen is a lie from the pit of hell. There is still a PROBLEM that deserves attention. Why women have come to believe that they are somehow less deserving of/able to achieve pleasure is cray to me. Maybe that book OS mentioned earlier would be helpful from a conservative Christian perspective?

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6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Listen, our bodies are made to be loved/pleasured (hetero-, homo-, whatever). The inability to climax isn't a personal failure but it is, IMO, problematic. Maybe there are some deprogramming issues that need to be addressed. Maybe there is a relational issue that needs to be addressed. Maybe there is a physical issue that needs to be addressed. The idea that we, as women, are BROKEN when climax doesn't regularly happen is a lie from the pit of hell. There is still a PROBLEM that deserves attention. Why women have come to believe that they are somehow less deserving of/able to achieve pleasure is cray to me. Maybe that book OS mentioned earlier would be helpful from a conservative Christian perspective?

Who said I am less deserving. Not sure what book you mean. I have read tons of books , most that are secular. The pills for depression screwed up my weight and my sexual response. Never csne back even though I have been off for 4 years. Of course I am deserving. My husband has bent over backwards and feels like a failure when he doesn’t.  I do better if I just have fun and enjoy it without all the pressure to be “successful.” I didn’t feel broken until you told me I was. 

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37 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

OMGEE. Staaahhhp. Grinning and bearing it every fourth day for 30 years isn't a badge of honor.

No one is saying anything about grin and bear it. Or any of it being a badge of honor. It’s no badge of honor to tell someone that one supposedly loves that they better please you sexual or you are leaving them either.

It’s not a badge of honor. It’s not some horrible thing to be endured. It’s just life. Realistically one or both parties isn’t going to o every time all the time in life, no matter how good either of them are or how much they try to please each other. Unrealistic expectations of what healthy normal loving sex is in a relationship is very likely the biggest reason people are unsatisfied.  This is especially true as we all age and as a relationship goes through life.

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1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

No one is saying anything about grin and bear it. Or any of it being a badge of honor. It’s no badge of honor to tell someone that one supposedly loves that they better please you sexual or you are leaving them either.

It’s not a badge of honor. It’s not some horrible thing to be endured. It’s just life. Realistically one or both parties isn’t going to o every time all the time in life, no matter how good either of them are or how much they try to please each other. Unrealistic expectations of what healthy normal loving sex is in a relationship is very likely the biggest reason people are unsatisfied.  This is especially true as we all age and as a relationship goes through life.

Thank you. YES!!!!!!

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7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Who said I am less deserving. Not sure what book you mean. I have read tons of books , most that are secular. The pills for depression screwed up my weight and my sexual response. Never csne back even though I have been off for 4 years. Of course I am deserving. My husband has bent over backwards and feels like a failure when he doesn’t.  I do better if I just have fun and enjoy it without all the pressure to be “successful.” I didn’t feel broken until you told me I was. 

Hold up. I never told you you were unsuccessful. *I* am defining success for *myself*. That's it. If my definition of success makes you feel uncomfy, I was suggesting some possible avenues to explore. No need, just options.

 

6 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

No one is saying anything about grin and bear it. Or any of it being a badge of honor. It’s no badge of honor to tell someone that one supposedly loves that they better please you sexual or you are leaving them either.

It’s not a badge of honor. It’s not some horrible thing to be endured. It’s just life. Realistically one or both parties isn’t going to o every time "all the time in life", no matter how good either of them are or how much they try to please each other. Unrealistic expectations of what healthy normal loving sex is in a relationship is very likely the biggest reason people are unsatisfied.  This is especially true as we all age and as a relationship goes through life.

Also, NO, it is not JUST LIFE to regularly have sex without orgasm. That may be SOME PEOPLE'S lives, it's not mine, nor do I wish it upon myself, my kids, or anyone else. **FOR ME** that would be something to endure. My statement was, 90+%, not "ALL THE TIME IN THEIR LIFE". It seems like that benchmark is triggering. I apologize for that. I don't think it's unrealistic to have my sex life fulfill my needs anymore than it's unrealistic for it to fulfill DH's but, as I said, that appears to be a radical, and minority view.

 

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Just now, Sneezyone said:

Hold up. I never told you you were unsuccessful. *I* am defining success for *myself*. That's it. If my definition of success makes you feel uncomfy, I was suggesting some possible avenues to explore. No need, just options.

 

Also, NO, it is not JUST LIFE to regularly have sex without orgasm. That may be SOME PEOPLE'S lives, it's not mine, nor do I wish it upon myself, my kids, or anyone else. **FOR ME** that would be something to endure. My statement was, 90+%, not "ALL THE TIME IN THEIR LIFE". It seems like that's triggering. I apologize for that. I don't think it's unrealistic to have my sex life fulfill my needs anymore than it's unrealistic for it to fulfill DH's but, as I said, that appears to be a radical, and minority view.

 

Not sure how old you are, but medical issues are just realistic. When your husband has daily migraines, he may not feel like it. 

Again, zI am happy for you. But if I had that expectation, I would be deeply unhappy. 

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