How do I motivate a lazy-minded tween?

[Rachel Tyson]

My daughter is super bright, intelligent, and spirited, but when it comes to the hard work that comes to her education she does not want to take the time to learn it. She likes the idea of things, but doesn't want to do the work for it. She takes the short cut every time. And the when I catch her, which is every time, I make her correct her mistake every time, but she persists to make the same mistakes every time. I think that her age has a little to do about it, but there is is also this element that she has had her whole life. So, I've tried to make school about things she is really into, and she gets excited about it and motivated, and then the work comes, and she runs out of gas so quickly and suddenly that she wants to give up. She does this with her Math lessons almost every day. She has gotten 100% on tests that she dragged through, throwing fits, being very negative, and I'll pull her up and watch her finish it and she will get a high score! She gets excited and I tell her to remember this moment the next time you do math, that you can do it, it just takes time and effort. But..... sure enough, she does the whole fit over again. I am really caught in the middle of putting her back in public school because I don't know what to do anymore. I want her to learn, bottom line, preferably homeschooled, but I don't know what to do. But her whole outlook on doing work is so lazy. She has a mind, but she doesn't want to use it because it is too hard, her critical thinking skills can be so great but she has to think, that's the problem, it's almost as if it is hurting her to think. But when she does use it, it's brilliant, and she is so proud of herself, but then it goes back into its whole and we start the process all over again. I'm sure this is somewhat normal for tweens, so any suggestions, techniques, advice would be appreciated! Thank you

[HomeAgain]

Does the approach you use with your daughter help you?  I know if someone told me "See? You can do it.  It just takes time and effort." it wouldn't go over well.  It would negate any positive that could come from that.  Because honestly, what I need is this:

• -ways to help me approach hard tasks
• -being allowed to feel how I feel about them
• -a good routine that makes hard tasks less procedurally hard
• -ways to be responsible for my own learning, with guidance

 

So, how do you feel being told the same words?

I don't make things my kids are really into into school.  I try to make school that sweet spot of something they can be interested in because I am also interested or want to share it with them. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  Sometimes it's just not relevant at the time and we need to put it away. 

I also do periodic assessments with my kids.  We sit at the table with a pile of pastries or cookies, some cocoa, and take turns talking about what we each like, don't like, want to change, want to keep/drop...there's a need for respect of both sides before we come up with a plan for the next few weeks/month to try and then assess how it's going again.

[Not_a_Number]

17 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Does the approach you use with your daughter help you?  I know if someone told me "See? You can do it.  It just takes time and effort." it wouldn't go over well.  It would negate any positive that could come from that.  Because honestly, what I need is this:

• -ways to help me approach hard tasks
• -being allowed to feel how I feel about them
• -a good routine that makes hard tasks less procedurally hard
• -ways to be responsible for my own learning, with guidance

 

So, how do you feel being told the same words?

I don't make things my kids are really into into school.  I try to make school that sweet spot of something they can be interested in because I am also interested or want to share it with them. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  Sometimes it's just not relevant at the time and we need to put it away. 

I also do periodic assessments with my kids.  We sit at the table with a pile of pastries or cookies, some cocoa, and take turns talking about what we each like, don't like, want to change, want to keep/drop...there's a need for respect of both sides before we come up with a plan for the next few weeks/month to try and then assess how it's going again.

Although, to be fair, with some kids it's REALLY hard to find a sweet spot. We've been trying and trying this year, and it's really hard. DD9 only wants to do what she wants to do, to an extent that makes homeschooling her really challenging. 

We also spend plenty of time trying to make things interesting, and discussing, and trying things. But sometimes, the missing ingredient is effort on the part of the kid even for the non-interesting parts, and you can't do anything about it... 

I don't know if that's what going on with the OP, though. Just my own personal experience this year. 

[HomeAgain]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Although, to be fair, with some kids it's REALLY hard to find a sweet spot. We've been trying and trying this year, and it's really hard. DD9 only wants to do what she wants to do, to an extent that makes homeschooling her really challenging. 

We also spend plenty of time trying to make things interesting, and discussing, and trying things. But sometimes, the missing ingredient is effort on the part of the kid even for the non-interesting parts, and you can't do anything about it... 

I don't know if that's what going on with the OP, though. Just my own personal experience this year. 

True.  One of the things that has helped this year was routine, right?  Sometimes, that's just the one thing that helps plod through to get to a point where you can start to tweak.  I think routine helps build expectations and effort, but yeah, there's no perfect recipe.

 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

True.  One of the things that has helped this year was routine, right?  Sometimes, that's just the one thing that helps plod through to get to a point where you can start to tweak.  I think routine helps build expectations and effort, but yeah, there's no perfect recipe.

Honestly, routine has always helped, and so have other tweaks, but we're definitely not in a stable state yet 😕 . I'm still trying to figure it out. There are days I think about just sending her back to school... but then I know that would not make her as happy.

[Clemsondana]

For most kids there are things that you can do to make it better, but I think that some kids just aren't going to want to do academic work no matter how you set it up.  One of my kids actually likes a lot of their school work and is philosophical about the fact that the stuff that they don't like has to be done.  The other does not have the same temperament and has fought academics off and on for 6 years.  I give my kids some say in what we use and how we structure our day so that they have some control. 

The most helpful things for us have been to have a routine, starting at around the same time, and also ensuring that fun stuff doesn't happen until school work is done - until I am happy with the work completed, no TV, reading for fun, messaging with friends, and if there is a planned extracurricular in the afternoon or evening the work must be done to my satisfaction (or an appropriate percentage of the work if it is earlier, like 1 pm instead of 5).  If they say 'I just have a little left' then I tell them they are welcome to take it in the car and they can go in to activity late if they can't finish up during the drive.  I have had to be almost absurd with that - obviously it would be fine to do 15 minutes of work at home afterwards, but if they've been dragging their feet all day then I can't be flexible or the next time it will be just 30 minutes saved until after activity, she says from experience.😃

There is an ADD aspect of 'can't get started' that this kid struggles with - they both can't get started (even with a fun activity) and are overwhelmed by anything that looks long.  They once melted down over 40 math problems in a review, even though the problems were checking their ability to do certain manipulations with algebraic expressions and, since the numbers were small, the problems were easily solved as fast as the student could write them down.  Student was able to get through it once I said that we wouldn't take more than 40 minutes...let's see how many they could get done in 10 minutes, and I think we were done in 25 minutes.  This feels unreasonable for a middle schooler, but that's where we are and that's what needs to happen for the work to get done, so that's what we do.

[Rachel Tyson]

7 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

For most kids there are things that you can do to make it better, but I think that some kids just aren't going to want to do academic work no matter how you set it up.  One of my kids actually likes a lot of their school work and is philosophical about the fact that the stuff that they don't like has to be done.  The other does not have the same temperament and has fought academics off and on for 6 years.  I give my kids some say in what we use and how we structure our day so that they have some control. 

The most helpful things for us have been to have a routine, starting at around the same time, and also ensuring that fun stuff doesn't happen until school work is done - until I am happy with the work completed, no TV, reading for fun, messaging with friends, and if there is a planned extracurricular in the afternoon or evening the work must be done to my satisfaction (or an appropriate percentage of the work if it is earlier, like 1 pm instead of 5).  If they say 'I just have a little left' then I tell them they are welcome to take it in the car and they can go in to activity late if they can't finish up during the drive.  I have had to be almost absurd with that - obviously it would be fine to do 15 minutes of work at home afterwards, but if they've been dragging their feet all day then I can't be flexible or the next time it will be just 30 minutes saved until after activity, she says from experience.😃

There is an ADD aspect of 'can't get started' that this kid struggles with - they both can't get started (even with a fun activity) and are overwhelmed by anything that looks long.  They once melted down over 40 math problems in a review, even though the problems were checking their ability to do certain manipulations with algebraic expressions and, since the numbers were small, the problems were easily solved as fast as the student could write them down.  Student was able to get through it once I said that we wouldn't take more than 40 minutes...let's see how many they could get done in 10 minutes, and I think we were done in 25 minutes.  This feels unreasonable for a middle schooler, but that's where we are and that's what needs to happen for the work to get done, so that's what we do.

I completely agree with you! I think routine would benefit more than Anything. You hit in on nose with the behavior though. The fits that she has every single day, 2 hour long math sessions for 20 questions, meanwhile I have 2 other daughters that need my attention for school as well. I’m topped off for patience with her. I’m not messing around this year, or she’ll have to go back to public school, which is not what she or I want. 

she has a lot of extracurricular activities in the afternoon that she adores, so I think I’ll have to use that as well for leverage. I hate to do that, but with kids that are this stone cold against doing the hard work, don’t deserve to have the fun. 

[Rachel Tyson]

23 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Does the approach you use with your daughter help you?  I know if someone told me "See? You can do it.  It just takes time and effort." it wouldn't go over well.  It would negate any positive that could come from that.  Because honestly, what I need is this:

• -ways to help me approach hard tasks
• -being allowed to feel how I feel about them
• -a good routine that makes hard tasks less procedurally hard
• -ways to be responsible for my own learning, with guidance

 

So, how do you feel being told the same words?

I don't make things my kids are really into into school.  I try to make school that sweet spot of something they can be interested in because I am also interested or want to share it with them. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  Sometimes it's just not relevant at the time and we need to put it away. 

I also do periodic assessments with my kids.  We sit at the table with a pile of pastries or cookies, some cocoa, and take turns talking about what we each like, don't like, want to change, want to keep/drop...there's a need for respect of both sides before we come up with a plan for the next few weeks/month to try and then assess how it's going again.

 

23 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Although, to be fair, with some kids it's REALLY hard to find a sweet spot. We've been trying and trying this year, and it's really hard. DD9 only wants to do what she wants to do, to an extent that makes homeschooling her really challenging. 

We also spend plenty of time trying to make things interesting, and discussing, and trying things. But sometimes, the missing ingredient is effort on the part of the kid even for the non-interesting parts, and you can't do anything about it... 

I don't know if that's what going on with the OP, though. Just my own personal experience this year. 

Yes! Exactly. The smallest effort is like pulling teeth, and the melt down comes…🙄. There is only so much I can do for her. I give her the tools to help her but she doesn’t want to organize her thoughts when it comes to math. We’ve tried pretty much everything you’ve mentioned and still no effort. So frustrating. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Rachel Tyson said:

Yes! Exactly. The smallest effort is like pulling teeth, and the melt down comes…🙄. There is only so much I can do for her. I give her the tools to help her but she doesn’t want to organize her thoughts when it comes to math. We’ve tried pretty much everything you’ve mentioned and still no effort. So frustrating. 

Which math curriculum are you using? 

[daijobu]

Welcome to the WTM boards!  I just want to let the OP know that if she is using her real name as her avatar, she may want to change it to protect her privacy.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Public school is not going to fix this.  It will just shift the burden to the public school during school hours (where it might fall through the cracks) and back on you in the evenings during homework time. 

I would work on scaffolding her.  Talk through her approach to her work BEFORE she sits down to do the work.  It's ok for her (and you) to come up with a reward for getting X amount of work done on a hard task.  It doesn't have to be anything amazing - my ds used to work for chocolate chips even as a teen!  Remember - we get rewarded for work with a paycheck or with some time off etc. so rewards aren't something bad.

 

[madteaparty]

3 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Public school is not going to fix this.  It will just shift the burden to the public school during school hours (where it might fall through the cracks) and back on you in the evenings during homework time. 

I would work on scaffolding her.  Talk through her approach to her work BEFORE she sits down to do the work.  It's ok for her (and you) to come up with a reward for getting X amount of work done on a hard task.  It doesn't have to be anything amazing - my ds used to work for chocolate chips even as a teen!  Remember - we get rewarded for work with a paycheck or with some time off etc. so rewards aren't something bad.

 

I don’t have a tween yet but I needed to hear this today, thank you. 

[Eilonwy]

On 7/23/2021 at 3:59 PM, Rachel Tyson said:

I think that her age has a little to do about it, but there is is also this element that she has had her whole life.

Does she think that she is avoiding work?  Is she aware of it and does she agree that that is what is happening? At her age (9 or 10?) she could be getting to the point of some awareness of this.

 
Also, does it turn up in all subjects or some much more than others?

[HomeAgain]

19 hours ago, Rachel Tyson said:

 

Yes! Exactly. The smallest effort is like pulling teeth, and the melt down comes…🙄. There is only so much I can do for her. I give her the tools to help her but she doesn’t want to organize her thoughts when it comes to math. We’ve tried pretty much everything you’ve mentioned and still no effort. So frustrating. 

For a 10/11yo, there isn't such a thing as wanting to organize their thoughts.

Just to approach this a different way, you say she struggles with math, right?  3rd grade concepts in 5th?  So, to break down her responses, it's probably more like this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She has gotten 100% on tests that she dragged through, throwing fits, being very negative, and I'll pull her up and watch her finish it and she will get a high score!

To her, math is a crapshoot.  She isn't sure of the concepts, so it's scary to be faced with a test and not be sure.  A test should assess what you know, but it should also be comfortable. 

She gets excited and I tell her to remember this moment the next time you do math, that you can do it, it just takes time and effort.

Again, it's a crapshoot.  It's THIS test.  THESE concepts.  The next one is going to incite the same panicky feeling.  This test, she won the coin toss of figuring it out or not.  The next one is still a 50/50 in her mind.

But..... sure enough, she does the whole fit over again.

Because it's a different test. It's new.  She may have to apply something she's not sure about and doesn't want to feel dumb.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you look at it a different way, it can look like a lack of self confidence can cause a lot of doubt in ability.

You say in your other thread that Time4Learning is working because it does the work for you.  I don't think it's giving her the ability to problem solve as well you you might hope.

[Jean in Newcastle]

May I remind you that teachers don't just hand kids a book or test and walk off?  I realize that most ten year olds and up can finish an assignment on their own, but homeschooling should not be totally hands off.  It's ok to sit with the kids (without the meltdown) if you know that she needs that.  And consistently doing well if you are there and doing poorly if you aren't, tells me that she needs you there.  I do know how hard that can be when or if you have other children and responsibilities so please read this with an encouraging tone and not a scolding one. 

[Not_a_Number]

12 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Public school is not going to fix this.  It will just shift the burden to the public school during school hours (where it might fall through the cracks) and back on you in the evenings during homework time. 

I would work on scaffolding her.  Talk through her approach to her work BEFORE she sits down to do the work.  It's ok for her (and you) to come up with a reward for getting X amount of work done on a hard task.  It doesn't have to be anything amazing - my ds used to work for chocolate chips even as a teen!  Remember - we get rewarded for work with a paycheck or with some time off etc. so rewards aren't something bad.

I mean... public school could either fix the problem or not. It kind of depends on what the problem IS. Some kids genuinely work better for people who aren't their parents. Some kids don't. For lots of kids, it's a mix. 

But I don't think there's any reason to act like public school can't possibly be a better option. For some parents, it is, and saying it won't fix it just makes people feel even more helpless. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I mean... public school could either fix the problem or not. It kind of depends on what the problem IS. Some kids genuinely work better for people who aren't their parents. Some kids don't. For lots of kids, it's a mix. 

But I don't think there's any reason to act like public school can't possibly be a better option. For some parents, it is, and saying it won't fix it just makes people feel even more helpless. 

I have taught public school for many many years. Performing better for someone other than a parent is not what she is describing. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I have taught public school for many many years. Performing better for someone other than a parent is not what she is describing. 

Interesting. How can you tell? (Genuine question -- I know it's a real phenomenon, having seen it a lot, but I can't always tell via description.) 

[PeterPan]

On 7/23/2021 at 2:59 PM, Rachel Tyson said:

But her whole outlook on doing work is so lazy. She has a mind, but she doesn't want to use it because it is too hard, her critical thinking skills can be so great but she has to think, that's the problem, it's almost as if it is hurting her to think. But when she does use it, it's brilliant, and she is so proud of herself, but then it goes back into its whole and we start the process all over again.

Fwiw, it actually does hurt some very bright kids to think if they have low processing speed. My dd as very bright with ADHD and low processing speed, and cognitive tasks could be very fatiguing. ADHD is usually accompanied by EF (executive function) challenges, so you could start by assuming she has some EF issues. Kids who are getting labeled "lazy" usually have EF problems.

https://www.amazon.com/FLIPP-Switch-2-0-Mastering-Executive/dp/1942197632/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=flipp+the+switch+2.0&qid=1627242670&sr=8-1  Ignore that it says autism and just look at the great ideas. 

https://www.efpractice.com  Sarah Ward of 360 Thinking has really great stuff, easy to implement ideas. One of the things she talks about is how kids SABOTAGE themselves, because they think the task will take longer than it does! So it could be that she's fatiguing with the math, sure. And it could be that she *thinks* it will take longer than it does. So then then EF steps are things like chunking the work, using a timer, taking breaks. They do a step where they *estimate* how long the work will take and then actually time it. These are life skills!!! That way she learns how to look at her work and say ok it's 30 problems, I can chunk it into 10 problems and do sets with breaks and get it done. That's what learning about Executive Function will teach you how to do.

Also read about Collaborative Problem Solving. Rather than you saying she's lazy (words are POWERFUL and you just labeled her???), you need to change the dialogue to accurate words and collaboration that helps her problem solve. 

Fwiw, not knowing your situation or meaning to be critical, it sounds like you're busy and not providing the level of support and structure she will need to succeed. You can learn how to provide more structure and support or you can hire someone. What isn't helpful to assume that somehow the dc will figure it out for themselves or even that they're being willfully bad. Most kids, even this age, still want to please you. Odds are she doesn't have the tools. Even adults fail with their Executive Function ALL THE TIME. So we lambast kids for what we ourselves don't do well. And by the time they no longer need us to guide/teach them how, well they'll be graduating and launching, lol.

So yes she's a child, yes you're going to need to provide more support/structure. There are plenty of resources to learn how. If this issue is pervasive, you could look for a counselor or educational therapist (yes there is such a thing) who specializes in ADHD who could help you get on track. Also consider reading about ADHD. It does not look in girls like you think and it could be part of the issue.

Edited July 25, 2021 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

People mentioned making sure screens, etc. are limited till core subjects are done. Some kids find pinterest, etc. and are doing that while you think they're working. 

Also consider:

-appointment times to work together--she works with you say 20 minutes and then has another 25 minute slot to do assigned work while you make lunch etc. (supervise)

-homework--Anything that is not done by the end of the slot becomes homework. Remember, if the dc really is being willful, the important thing is that they only inconvenience *themselves* not you. So you as a family are watching movies and eating dilly bars while she finishes

-chunk the work--You can reveal the work one row at a time. You can cut worksheets into sections. Anything to reduce anxiety and feeling overwhelmed.

-scribing the math--I'm a huge fan of whiteboards, say 16X20, and doing the math together.

Is this dc being expected to copy problems from a text to paper? If so, reluctance can indicate a vision problem. Copying is a major task where developmental vision problems like convergence show up. You might see a pattern with other visual tasks being resisted. Always something to watch for. 

Sensory issues, retained reflexes, and anxiety can all make work less comfortable. They're sort of the 4 alarm fire going off while this otherwise crazy bright kid is trying to work.

 

[PeterPan]

Did @Rachel Tyson see this thread? Might be on topic.

  

[Jean in Newcastle]

36 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Interesting. How can you tell? (Genuine question -- I know it's a real phenomenon, having seen it a lot, but I can't always tell via description.) 

Because the child does better when the parent is sitting there. The child is not reacting negatively to the parent’s help. 
 

What is being described are executive function issues. Schools are notoriously bad at helping with scaffolding. Not blaming them. It’s hard to provide what needs to be individualized scaffolding in a classroom setting. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Because the child does better when the parent is sitting there. The child is not reacting negatively to the parent’s help. 
 

What is being described are executive function issues. Schools are notoriously bad at helping with scaffolding. Not blaming them. It’s hard to provide what needs to be individualized scaffolding in a classroom setting. 

DD9 does better when I’m sitting there in some sense, but really she does best in situations where she feels motivated to take on the work. That may be different from what the OP is describing, though.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ps- it pushes huge buttons for me to characterize a child as being “lazy-minded”. I do know that some people can be lazy. But making mistakes is not laziness. And doing work when you have help doesn’t point to laziness to me. 

[Eilonwy]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:42 PM, Rachel Tyson said:

she has a lot of extracurricular activities in the afternoon that she adores, so I think I’ll have to use that as well for leverage. I hate to do that, but with kids that are this stone cold against doing the hard work, don’t deserve to have the fun. 

It may be genuinely hard for her to work in the way you want her to, especially for math.  It does sound to me like there could well be something else going on (executive function skills, maybe something more) besides just reluctance to do work. Maybe it’s confidence, maybe concepts in math. 
 

For me, I think it would work better to not let myself think in terms of if she was deserving or not, but to work on establishing a very predictable routine with regard to the schoolwork and the extracurricular things, and to be very consistent but neutral/calm when sticking to that routine. This would help me to take my emotions out of it, though it sounds very frustrating. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Eilonwy

[Not_a_Number]

30 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ps- it pushes huge buttons for me to characterize a child as being “lazy-minded”. I do know that some people can be lazy. But making mistakes is not laziness. And doing work when you have help doesn’t point to laziness to me. 

Yeah, I know what you mean about this kind of characterization making you upset. Honestly, though, I think it just shows an unhealthy level of frustration and a bad dynamic; it's hard to say more than that from the information. It's possible the child is being rebellious and it's also possible she's struggling. It's honestly hard for me to tell. 

[Rachel Tyson]

8 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

For a 10/11yo, there isn't such a thing as wanting to organize their thoughts.

Just to approach this a different way, you say she struggles with math, right?  3rd grade concepts in 5th?  So, to break down her responses, it's probably more like this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She has gotten 100% on tests that she dragged through, throwing fits, being very negative, and I'll pull her up and watch her finish it and she will get a high score!

To her, math is a crapshoot.  She isn't sure of the concepts, so it's scary to be faced with a test and not be sure.  A test should assess what you know, but it should also be comfortable. 

She gets excited and I tell her to remember this moment the next time you do math, that you can do it, it just takes time and effort.

Again, it's a crapshoot.  It's THIS test.  THESE concepts.  The next one is going to incite the same panicky feeling.  This test, she won the coin toss of figuring it out or not.  The next one is still a 50/50 in her mind.

But..... sure enough, she does the whole fit over again.

Because it's a different test. It's new.  She may have to apply something she's not sure about and doesn't want to feel dumb.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you look at it a different way, it can look like a lack of self confidence can cause a lot of doubt in ability.

You say in your other thread that Time4Learning is working because it does the work for you.  I don't think it's giving her the ability to problem solve as well you you might hope.

Yes, when you put it that way, I see your point. She does have a lack of self confidence with math for sure, from the very start. It’s hard for me to put that confidence in her when I myself have a hard time with concepts. 
 

when I say Time4learning does the work for me, I mean yes it does, because we work heavily on other school subjects like history, literature, grammar, and extracurricular activities. Although math is part of our daily schedule, I myself am not very good at math and so when we first started homeschooling I looked for something that would be less on my shoulders. Plus I have multiple kids and it’s my first time. Also, it puts math in terms that I thought she would benefit. So I think I definitely learned a lesson on that. 
 

I am looking at Math u see right now.

[Rachel Tyson]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Fwiw, it actually does hurt some very bright kids to think if they have low processing speed. My dd as very bright with ADHD and low processing speed, and cognitive tasks could be very fatiguing. ADHD is usually accompanied by EF (executive function) challenges, so you could start by assuming she has some EF issues. Kids who are getting labeled "lazy" usually have EF problems.

https://www.amazon.com/FLIPP-Switch-2-0-Mastering-Executive/dp/1942197632/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=flipp+the+switch+2.0&qid=1627242670&sr=8-1  Ignore that it says autism and just look at the great ideas. 

https://www.efpractice.com  Sarah Ward of 360 Thinking has really great stuff, easy to implement ideas. One of the things she talks about is how kids SABOTAGE themselves, because they think the task will take longer than it does! So it could be that she's fatiguing with the math, sure. And it could be that she *thinks* it will take longer than it does. So then then EF steps are things like chunking the work, using a timer, taking breaks. They do a step where they *estimate* how long the work will take and then actually time it. These are life skills!!! That way she learns how to look at her work and say ok it's 30 problems, I can chunk it into 10 problems and do sets with breaks and get it done. That's what learning about Executive Function will teach you how to do.

Also read about Collaborative Problem Solving. Rather than you saying she's lazy (words are POWERFUL and you just labeled her???), you need to change the dialogue to accurate words and collaboration that helps her problem solve. 

Fwiw, not knowing your situation or meaning to be critical, it sounds like you're busy and not providing the level of support and structure she will need to succeed. You can learn how to provide more structure and support or you can hire someone. What isn't helpful to assume that somehow the dc will figure it out for themselves or even that they're being willfully bad. Most kids, even this age, still want to please you. Odds are she doesn't have the tools. Even adults fail with their Executive Function ALL THE TIME. So we lambast kids for what we ourselves don't do well. And by the time they no longer need us to guide/teach them how, well they'll be graduating and launching, lol.

So yes she's a child, yes you're going to need to provide more support/structure. There are plenty of resources to learn how. If this issue is pervasive, you could look for a counselor or educational therapist (yes there is such a thing) who specializes in ADHD who could help you get on track. Also consider reading about ADHD. It does not look in girls like you think and it could be part of the issue.

Awesome stuff, thank you.

[Rachel Tyson]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ps- it pushes huge buttons for me to characterize a child as being “lazy-minded”. I do know that some people can be lazy. But making mistakes is not laziness. And doing work when you have help doesn’t point to laziness to me. 

I realize, lazy was not the best choice of words. however, though I do think she is lazy at times, I also believe there is a reason for it, and I am determined to help her in any way that I can. I am also extremely frustrated with how everything is going with her. I’m not a perfect mom nor teacher, but these kinds of conversations where I can be completely honest about my feelings and shortcomings really help me learn more about the development of children and their education. 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Rachel Tyson said:

I am looking at Math u see right now.

MUS was great for my very ADHD dd. She learned how to monitor her comprehension and rewind as needed. It went better once she was on the ADHD meds. That's pretty common for people to say math goes WAY better when their kid is on ADHD meds. My dd's ACT math scores went from pretty nasty to good enough to get top scholarships when we got the ADHD treated. Huge jump.

2 hours ago, Rachel Tyson said:

 I am also extremely frustrated with how everything is going with her. I’m not a perfect mom nor teacher, but these kinds of conversations where I can be completely honest about my feelings and shortcomings really help me learn more about the development of children and their education. 

Fwiw, that's what I got when we finally got my dd psych (psychologist) evals to get her ADHD diagnosed. She was 12 at the time and I handed him a video of working with her and said he doggone better make sure he explained THAT by the end. Hahaha. So yeah, I get being frustrated and wanting to vent!

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, Rachel Tyson said:

She does have a lack of self confidence with math for sure, from the very start. It’s hard for me to put that confidence in her when I myself have a hard time with concepts. 

Well being honest is definitely the first step! You know this, but you have options. You could hire a tutor. You could get materials you can understand and stay one step ahead of her. If you go with MUS (not saying you should, but if), you could watch the videos ahead of her. Don't they now have some kind of paid tutorial service for MUS where someone will answer your questions?

I worked at a university in admissions and I evaluated the transcript of homeschooled students whose mom *never graduated from high school*. Seriously. And those kids were FINE!! How? The mom stayed one step ahead.

So you just have to find your way that you make this work. Maybe it takes several pieces (evals for the kid, new math curriculum, some supports, some checklists, some timers), but you can do it. This is hard stuff we're doing and it doesn't mean you're doing it wrong when it feels hard. It means it is hard. And when you do one hard thing, then you'll stretch and be ready for the next hard thing. You've got this. 

[Earthmerlin]

15 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I have taught public school for many many years. Performing better for someone other than a parent is not what she is describing. 

Depends. I have a kid who drags her feet like OP said but does well with a tutor. No parent = better success. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Earthmerlin said:

Depends. I have a kid who drags her feet like OP said but does well with a tutor. No parent = better success. 

Nuts, my ds' behavior goes through the toilet if I'm in the room for his speech therapy sessions, lol. It's just kids.

[MamaSprout]

I haven’t read all of the replies, but my dd did some of this at a somewhat younger age. We needed to address the fit throwing separately, and adapted a no-tolerance policy towards it. Anything that looked like a fit brewing required a head-down-on-the table “pause” that we established beforehand.

Then we worked on the other parts- which at a glance looks like you’ve gotten some good advice about. 

I ultimately had my kiddo sign a contract. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, MamaSprout said:

I ultimately had my kiddo sign a contract. 

How did this work and how did it help? I'm still looking for ideas to use with my willful kiddo...