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The “vaccination divide” in the US


Quill
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5 minutes ago, Muttichen1 said:

You left out the previous paragraph:

"More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.
 
WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy."
 
Yes, they say it's suitable, but they say we need more evidence in whether to recommend it. Are we sure the benefits are worth the risk in kids?

This is still being discussed in the UK. Vaccination is recommended for children at high risk but not yet others.

This may also be based on vaccine supplies - we are awaiting new shipments.

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25 minutes ago, Plum said:

What I'm saying is, there is an immediate shutdown when it comes to repurposing drugs for off label use because they lack the gold standard of studies in the midst of a pandemic and perhaps because they aren't going to make big pharma any money

What about dexamethasone? So far that’s the one that has the strongest supporting studies and is being widely used. And it’s cheap. I don’t think the narrative that no one wants to find inexpensive drugs that work is supported. 

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Yes, my reading of the entire page is that the jury is out on a blanket recommendation like “take whichever shot is available first.” So, no general recommendation to take any of the available shots.  However, SAGE has concluded that Pfizer is suitable for use in kids 12 and up.  Of course, it’s the only one being offered to kids, too, at least in the US.  They will make a general recommendation about all the different shots available when more evidence comes in.

 

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11 hours ago, Plum said:

I The vaccinated still seem to be transmitting Delta which means more spread which means more variants.

Just to clarify for anyone, even though there are more breakthrough cases with Delta than other variants, vaccination still does prevent a significant percent of infections, which means fewer people transmitting. And it seems to likely lower viral load, which also means less transmission. 

It isn't as good as we would like, but the best option for reducing cases and transmission. 

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10 minutes ago, KSera said:

What about dexamethasone? So far that’s the one that has the strongest supporting studies and is being widely used. And it’s cheap. I don’t think the narrative that no one wants to find inexpensive drugs that work is supported. 

Yes.  This was the result of a massive, NHS-based random controlled trial.  Hydroxychloroquine is currently being studied in a similar large trial.

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Also, most of the world has less vaccine than people who need it AND are willing to take it. So, prioritizing high risk individuals, which does not include most children, makes sense. In the USA, we have enough vaccine that if we can get those middle/high school kids vaccinated before school starts, it would be very, very beneficial, because it would let them have a much more normal school year and protect those students, faculty, and staff who cannot be vaccinated, as well as reduce the likelihood that at risk family members will contract it through community spread. 

 

WHO isn't just looking at the USA, but countries in Africa where vaccination is almost unavailable. In that situation, using Pfizer on a healthy 12 yr old over a less healthy 60 yr old doesn't make sense. But setting priorities does not equal "not safe for kids" or "not recommended WHEN the supply of vaccine is enough to make it a viable option". 

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I will also add-I've seen three medical professionals since COVID started. All three had OTC or cheap/readily available suggestions. My Endo checked blood levels and upped my vitamin D. My Immunologist suggested other vitamins to add that affect immune system functioning and added low dose aspirin. My allergist upped my dosage of prescription level zyrtec, flonase, and mucinex and suggested adding tumeric to reduce inflammation.  All three told me to get the vaccine ASAP, although the allergist had a list of conditions which led to me getting it at a clinic run by paramedics that had closer observation and several ambulances idling and ready to go. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I will also add-I've seen three medical professionals since COVID started. All three had OTC or cheap/readily available suggestions. My Endo checked blood levels and upped my vitamin D. My Immunologist suggested other vitamins to add that affect immune system functioning and added low dose aspirin. My allergist upped my dosage of prescription level zyrtec, flonase, and mucinex and suggested adding tumeric to reduce inflammation.  All three told me to get the vaccine ASAP, although the allergist had a list of conditions which led to me getting it at a clinic run by paramedics that had closer observation and several ambulances idling and ready to go. 

 

I am curious what the other vitamins that your immunologist suggested.  Do you take the allergy meds all the time or only when needed? 

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9 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I am curious what the other vitamins that your immunologist suggested.  Do you take the allergy meds all the time or only when needed? 

I have both a daily protocol and a surge protocol. The goal is to avoid reactions, but then to be able to up the amount as needed.  The daily protocol is H1 and H2 inhibitors, plus prescription Flonaise. The surge protocol adds higher doses of H1 and hydroxine, as well as an oral decongestant, plus an inhaler as needed.  The goal is to avoid having to use steroids. 

 

I've been taking D, C with Quercetin, Zinc, B complex, and a general multi. The goal is basically just to support the immune system as much as possible, in the hopes that it will be able to fight off infection without overreacting too badly. 

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On 7/25/2021 at 5:56 AM, freesia said:

I know for sure this is true in some cases. Dh really wants to wait for the full approval for our dd who turned 12 in April. She is very low risk and atm we have low numbers, everyone in the house is vaccinated as is close to 80% of our area so her risk to others is lowish, too. I would probably get her vaccinated but am playing the long game ( dh comes from a non-vaccine family ( he and dsil were not vaccinated as children) who have all gotten the vaccine. He just sees her risk as no more than flu rn and wants to give it more time “in case.”  So, yes, there are folks waiting for full approval. 

But her risk is not the only risk.   If she gets it she can give it to someone who is high risk.  

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1 hour ago, Plum said:

Maybe because contact tracing was a joke when we went through it. He got a call a month and a half late after he went back in for his negative test to return to work. That negative test triggered a quarantine for the whole family. It was ridiculous. We notified everyone we came into contact with immediately after the positive test. 

Right, there is absolutely no one in the world that both sides will listen to so lets keep Fauci. 

They could absolutely jack up the price like they do with insulin and many drugs. There's nothing stopping them from doing that either. Remdesivir is a lot of money per dose. FDA has approved one drug, remdesivir (Veklury), for the treatment of COVID-19 in hospitalized patients aged 12 years and older who weigh at least 40 kg. Veklury, in its current FDA-approved use for hospitalized patients, brought in sales of $1.94 billion in the fourth quarter of 2020 alone. But for 2021, Gilead’s projecting a total haul between $2 billion and $3 billion, depending on how the pandemic evolves. 

 

I stand corrected. UK is one of the highest vaccination countries. I was going through my head thinking of protests, but UK has had mainly mitigation measure protests, right? France, Greece and Germany seem to have a vaccination divide. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/26/europe/europe-vaccine-mandate-passport-certificate-intl-gbr-cmd/index.html

 

My direct quote: We should be developing or repurposing cheap over the counter treatments that could be widely available to all countries. What incentives does big pharma have to end this?

It's not that I don't think we are developing treatments at all. I know supercomputers have been used to look at ideal candidates and there is lots of work being done. We have a clinic here that is participating in the NIH ACTIV-2 study

What I'm saying is, there is an immediate shutdown when it comes to repurposing drugs for off label use because they lack the gold standard of studies in the midst of a pandemic and perhaps because they aren't going to make big pharma any money. I'm saying there may be candidates out there that could be used right now but aren't. Sometimes it's as simple as the code for the pills doesn't line up with the code for the diagnosis and so the insurance rejects it. (said as a complete layman)

I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions or be wrong about something. I just want the truth and not some politicized monetarily driven response. 

Just to be clear, I don’t care one way or another if they keep Fauci, I’ve never even heard him speak. I just don’t think the national level is where what happens is going to influence people anymore. Research, polling, and on the ground experiences show local and personal make the difference for the vaccine hesitant. As for the vaccine resistant, I think it would take either Trump very strongly publicly and repeatedly advocating for vaccination or several of the big name personalities/politicians who embraced covid and vaccine misinformation and conspiracy theories to do a 180 and come out strongly in favor. Even then, I’m really not sure it would work.

As you didn’t mention off label use in your original post, I think that was part of my confusion, since they are actively using some already existing drugs for treatment, including some very cheap and generic ones. And in general, off label use of drugs is not uncommon. I’ve personally experienced it.

As for contact tracing, unfortunately I’m not surprised at all by your experience. Public health has long been underfunded in this country, so lots of agencies very quickly found themselves overwhelmed. And as more and more people refused to cooperate after staffing improved, it became something of a losing proposition in parts of the country. Public health agencies are now having to devote considerable resources to convincing the vaccine hesitant and resistant all while facing enormous backlash in some areas. Although of course things could be better, I do think most have done pretty darn good considering a not insignificant part of the country doesn’t seem to grasp the public part of public health.

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

But her risk is not the only risk.   If she gets it she can give it to someone who is high risk.  

Yes, that’s why we are keeping an eye on numbers, etc. because of camps and grandma visits she has also been tested once a week for the last month. Before that numbers were very very low in our area and still are fairly low. But, I am aware of this and dh and I are discussing it again. 

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5 hours ago, Muttichen1 said:

Then show me where the WHO recommends the vaccine for kids under 18, because all I said is that they don't. You all can quibble all day that not saying kids shouldn't get it is different than not saying kids should get it. All I said is that they recommend the vaccine for people over 18. Show me where they say anything different -- from the WHO website, not from a fact checker trying to spin it.

 

Spy Car is a longstanding, reputable member of this group. You are new here. I would suggest you not start out by throwing accusations at people. 

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3 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

 

Spy Car is a longstanding, reputable member of this group. You are new here. I would suggest you not start out by throwing accusations at people. 

I don’t think she’s new. I think she’s back after a long break. 

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3 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I have both a daily protocol and a surge protocol. The goal is to avoid reactions, but then to be able to up the amount as needed.  The daily protocol is H1 and H2 inhibitors, plus prescription Flonaise. The surge protocol adds higher doses of H1 and hydroxine, as well as an oral decongestant, plus an inhaler as needed.  The goal is to avoid having to use steroids. 

 

I've been taking D, C with Quercetin, Zinc, B complex, and a general multi. The goal is basically just to support the immune system as much as possible, in the hopes that it will be able to fight off infection without overreacting too badly. 

I take the same supplements (plus some more for my particular problems).  But as you said earlier, I am still vaxed.  I actually trust the vaccination to protect me from Covid more than my protocol. 

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36 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

 

Spy Car is a longstanding, reputable member of this group. You are new here. I would suggest you not start out by throwing accusations at people. 

Spy Car is quite capable of defending himself. 🤣

 

And what is with the gatekeeping? I've noticed it fairly often recently. But, of course, new posters who post the "right" things don't get admonished.

 

(I've been here over a decade, although I don't post that often.)

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5 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Just to clarify for anyone, even though there are more breakthrough cases with Delta than other variants, vaccination still does prevent a significant percent of infections, which means fewer people transmitting. And it seems to likely lower viral load, which also means less transmission. 

It isn't as good as we would like, but the best option for reducing cases and transmission. 

How do we know it's preventing infections when we are not testing asymptomatic or symptomatic cases in the vaccinated?

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30 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I take the same supplements (plus some more for my particular problems).  But as you said earlier, I am still vaxed.  I actually trust the vaccination to protect me from Covid more than my protocol. 

Me, too. This was what was prescribed a year ago, when I was stuck going back into a classroom with kids months before any vaccine was available. And I got my vaccine the first day I could get it, back when getting an appointment felt like buying tickets from Ticketmaster on dial-up!

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58 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

 

Spy Car is a longstanding, reputable member of this group. You are new here. I would suggest you not start out by throwing accusations at people. 

Who threw out an accusation? He accused me of lying. I asked him to show me where I'm wrong.

And I'm not new. I've been here many years but lost my account in one of the changes and have mostly lurked since then. 

Really, if you all want to understand why people are hesitant to get the vaccine, just look at this discussion of the WHO recommendations. I said they don't recommend the vaccine for people under 18 and I was accused of believing/spreading misinformation and lying. I showed from their website that this was accurate. They recommend the vaccine for people 18 and up and say they need more information before making a recommendation for younger kids. I never said they say kids under 18 shouldn't get it. 

The point is, any discussion of risks of the vaccine is shut down as misinformation. There is no way I'd get a vaccine knowing that. I want to give informed consent and that means openly discussing the risks and benefits, not living in a bubble where any negatives are dismissed as right wing conspiracy theories. You're not going to convince anyone this way.

 

 

Edited by Muttichen1
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On 7/23/2021 at 5:35 AM, Quill said:

I struggle to understand the psychology behind the “two Americas” when it comes to vaccine uptake for COVID-19. When I read, for example, Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York have 70%+ uptake, but Mississippi, Alabama and Arkansas has less than 45% uptake, I am so curious about the social behavior and individual psychology behind those stats, particularly because that does not necessarily correlate to other vaccines. (IOW, I don’t think Alabama is a hotbed of people who also refuse the MMR, Varicella, etc.) 

I live in Maryland which, in some ways is a perfect microcosm of the two Americas. If I turn left out of my driveway, I move towards the highly liberal section, lots of masking (even now) and high compliance with vaccination. If I turn right out my driveway, I move towards the opposite. The town to the right is where I encountered the man in the store declaring mask-wearing was “Tie-ranny!” 

I wonder how much identity has to do with it and I wonder how much social clusters have to do with it as well. (If most of your friends are vaxxed, you are more likely to see it as normal/obvious; if most are refusing, you are more likely to not see the point/benefit.) it’s also interesting to me when people “cross over”; a man I was talking to recently said, “I’m a Conservative, but I believe in science! Yes, I got the vaccine.” But I wonder if that man would still think that way if he lived in a place surrounded by friends and family who think “I’m a Conservative” = vaccine refusal. 

Just musing about this today. 

I do not think being conservative means not believing in science. I also do not think using the vaccinations means believing in science. In fact, I hate that term "believe in science" because it usually means that whatever is told to us, that could have a science basis, is infallible and should never be questioned. REAL science always means asking, asking, asking, questioning, testing, etc. And whatever we know now, in 100 years, we will know some of it to be totally wrong and we will know a bunch more about other parents of it. I know that no one today would use a 200 year old science textbook to teach and say it is totally accurate. Likewise, everything we believe today will be tested and a portion will be proven wrong and some day, people will look back on this age and think about how little we knew. (think of the Star Trek movie where they go back in time to what was current times when the movie was made and the doctor said how archaic the medicine was when he was in the hospital).

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25 minutes ago, Muttichen1 said:

The point is, any discussion of risks of the vaccine is shut down as misinformation. There is no way I'd get a vaccine knowing that. I want to give informed consent and that means openly discussing the risks and benefits, not living in a bubble where any negatives are dismissed as right wing conspiracy theories. You're not going to convince anyone this way.

 

 

I don’t think it is accurate that any discussion of risks gets shut down. There have certainly been discussions concerning children, pregnant women, those with medical conditions, previous allergic reactions, etc. The ultimate main advice seems to be to consult your own personal trusted medical professional to discuss the risks and benefits if you have questions or concerns about your specific situation. Personally, I honestly don’t understand looking to WHO for my personal medical decisions or those of minor children.

I also think it is absolutely necessary to recognize that there is a great deal of misinformation and conspiracy theories around both covid and the vaccines. Both things can be true at the same time. And again, the best way to combat that is for people to consult a trusted medical professional to get accurate information and discuss personal risk and benefits, rather than rely on social media or YouTube, etc.

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So the last of the comorbidity group is getting vaccinated this week and then we are on to the whole population. One million vaccines came into the country last week (which is 20% of the population of NZ). Here is an example of the type of news we are getting here on our biggest news website (40% of kiwis read it). I thought it was kind of sweet compared to the news that America gets.

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2021/the-whole-truth-covid-19-vaccine/#/1202401514/why-a-sore-arm-after-vaccination-can-be-a-good-thing

It is a 2 minute video "why a sore arm after vaccination can be a good thing" and it has Māori subtitles. It is currently the lead story on the website. 

It is a part of a series of articles and videos that are being put out by this news site (Stuff). Interestingly, it is being funded by Google News Initiative not the government. Stuff is actually independently owned by the journalist staff who work there. It is not a public company. Here is Stuff's summary of this series:

--------

"Those most at-risk of serious illness or death from Covid-19 are frequently targeted with misinformation.

Produced by Stuff in partnership with Māori Television and the Pacific Media Network, The Whole Truth: Covid-19 Vaccination counters the falsehoods.

It explains the topics prone to misinformation, and seeks to inform rather than inflame. It does not advocate for policy positions, apart from transparency and accuracy in public debate.

On this page, and across a range of social media and print publications, The Whole Truth about the Covid-19 vaccine is published through a series of videos, graphics and words.

The project received funding from the Google News Initiative. This money is used to pay animators, presenters, and an expert advisory panel. The journalism is independent and created under Stuff's code of ethics."

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2021/the-whole-truth-covid-19-vaccine/#/

Edited by lewelma
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I'm finding it just keeps getting sadder and sadder to watch this play out, and I worry how bad it's going to get. Every day, there are more and more stories with family members of those who have died (or the patients themselves, if they survived) expressing their deep regret at having followed the anti vaccination rhetoric and not having been vaccinated, and urging others not to make the same mistake. Yet, it seems like that doesn't have a huge impact on anyone other than the family involved, so by the time people regret their choice, it's too late 😢. And right now, that's playing out with ~10,000 deaths a month just in the US. 99+% of which are totally preventable. It's just terribly sad to see this and feel like people are so set in their view that they're not willing to change their mind now that the impact is very clear. I did see vaccination rates are picking up a bit in those areas being hard hit right now, so maybe it's not entirely true it doesn't impact anyone unless it's their family. But even waiting until it hits one's own area before deciding to prevent it means it may be too late at that point. It's just a helpless feeling to watch it knowing it could be prevented.

Eta: I just saw yet another one of these stories. Mom of 8 nearly dies from COVID, regrets not getting vaccinated This woman is 43.

Edited by KSera
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The WHO is not making general recommendations for those 12+ and feels it is, on a whole, less urgent to vaccinate them than the older population, health care workers and those with health conditions, after all they are looking at the global view and there are so many people without access to any vaccine at this time.  They do state the following:

WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

Edited by melmichigan
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4 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

I was just tested for Covid. I'm vaccinated. I had a fever; I called my doctor who said, "Let's get you tested." 

I'm sorry! I hope it's negative and you feel better quickly.

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2 hours ago, whitestavern said:

How do we know it's preventing infections when we are not testing asymptomatic or symptomatic cases in the vaccinated?

Other places are testing - we have info from a few places now. 

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1 hour ago, melmichigan said:

The WHO is not making general recommendations for those 12+ and feels it is, on a whole, less urgent to vaccinate them than the older population, health care workers and those with health conditions, after all they are looking at the global view and there are so many people without access to any vaccine at this time.  They do state the following:

WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

She and I went around and around about this a few days ago. It's silly, IMHO. The WHO doesn't make general recommendations is not the same thing as saying the WHO does not recommend. Who talks like that? You didn't ask me what kind of car to buy so I never shared a recommendation. Do I say, "I do not recommend that you buy a Camry." 

The news source she cited deliberately misinterpreted the WHO guidelines. The irony here is that she posted it to prove that she reads unbiased sources. 

 

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2 hours ago, whitestavern said:

How do we know it's preventing infections when we are not testing asymptomatic or symptomatic cases in the vaccinated?

You can get tested here if you are vaccinated. Maybe it varies by state or even county or city? 

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12 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

It is negative. Just a cold - go home and sleep it off. It was last week or so, so I am still stuffy, but I feel better.

🤦‍♀️ I misread. When you said “just tested,” I took it a little too literally 😂. Glad you’re fine!

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2 hours ago, KSera said:

Eta: I just saw yet another one of these stories. Mom of 8 nearly dies from COVID, regrets not getting vaccinated This woman is 43.

Quoting from that article:

Quote

Starling said she and her husband both agreed they had likely already had COVID and didn’t know they had it.

I think there's going to be a lot of this kind of thinking in people who had some kind of illness in the last year but didn't bother to test. 

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Just now, kbutton said:

Quoting from that article:

I think there's going to be a lot of this kind of thinking in people who had some kind of illness in the last year but didn't bother to test. 

This is why I wish the powers that be had created a free "antibody card" that was good for say, 6 months or whatever, as an alternative to vaccination. So those that said, "I don't need a vaccine, I think I already had it." could prove it...or learn they were wrong and maybe reconsider vaccination. 

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3 hours ago, whitestavern said:

How do we know it's preventing infections when we are not testing asymptomatic or symptomatic cases in the vaccinated?

I’ve been tested four times since being vaccinated.  No symptoms, but on a college campus that did random survey testing all year and two “everybody tests” weeks whether you were vaccinated or not.

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On 7/26/2021 at 5:56 AM, Muttichen1 said:

Then show me where the WHO recommends the vaccine for kids under 18, because all I said is that they don't. You all can quibble all day that not saying kids shouldn't get it is different than not saying kids should get it. All I said is that they recommend the vaccine for people over 18. Show me where they say anything different -- from the WHO website, not from a fact checker trying to spin it.

LOL.

Here are a few items from the WHO article you linked (and they boldeded for emphasis):

There are several safe and effective vaccines that prevent people from getting seriously ill or dying from COVID-19. [That's true]

Take whatever vaccine is made available to you first, even if you have already had COVID-19. It is important to be vaccinated as soon as possible once it’s your turn and not wait. [Excellent advice!]

They also said (without bodled emphasis): 

"Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.

Having a "less urgent" need to be vaccinated is not a recommendation against vaccination, as you have dishonestly attempted to spin this. It is more "urgent" as a general condition to vaccinate 90 year olds, over 80 year olds, and 80 year olds over 70 year olds, and 70 year olds over 60 year olds, and so on, all else being equal.

I think this analysis by the WHO has neglected the risk of long Covid on young people, especially should it prove to be a life-long illness.

Bill

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2 hours ago, historically accurate said:

I was just tested for Covid. I'm vaccinated. I had a fever; I called my doctor who said, "Let's get you tested." 

Well the CDC itself states they are not tracking positive cases unless there is hospitalization or death. If this information is available anywhere, please share a link. 

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5 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Well the CDC itself states they are not tracking positive cases unless there is hospitalization or death. If this information is available anywhere, please share a link. 

They may not be publishing breakthrough cases as a stat (I honestly have no idea, I follow my county & region's numbers but nothing really beyond that), but that doesn't mean they don't test anyone.

I was confused of your intent with your first post where you said they weren't testing anyone since I took that to mean literally they weren't testing for Covid for anyone who had been vaccinated. Obviously they are since I am one of them (I was negative), but I do have a friend who had a breakthrough case. 

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2 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

They may not be publishing breakthrough cases as a stat (I honestly have no idea, I follow my county & region's numbers but nothing really beyond that), but that doesn't mean they don't test anyone.

I was confused of your intent with your first post where you said they weren't testing anyone since I took that to mean literally they weren't testing for Covid for anyone who had been vaccinated. Obviously they are since I am one of them (I was negative), but I do have a friend who had a breakthrough case. 

You're right - should have used tracking vs testing. Though I do know a couple of sick vaccinated people IRL whose doctors didn't recommend testing. I wish they were tracking this information though. 

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30 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

You're right - should have used tracking vs testing. Though I do know a couple of sick vaccinated people IRL whose doctors didn't recommend testing. I wish they were tracking this information though. 

I will always go for more data, so yeah, I'd be tracking it if I were in charge. 

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1 hour ago, whitestavern said:

Well the CDC itself states they are not tracking positive cases unless there is hospitalization or death. If this information is available anywhere, please share a link. 

I don’t know if it’s on a state dashboard, but I’ve read articles in my state reporting the number of breakthrough cases and deaths.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/local/coronavirus/2021/07/01/oregon-covid-19-update-1-790-breakthrough-cases-identified/7821185002/

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8 minutes ago, Frances said:

I don’t know if it’s on a state dashboard, but I’ve read articles in my state reporting the number of breakthrough cases and deaths.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/local/coronavirus/2021/07/01/oregon-covid-19-update-1-790-breakthrough-cases-identified/7821185002/

Someone linked Virginia's state dashboard recently, and they have a really nice breakdown of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. So, it seems it's state by state, but just not being collected by the CDC. Which I think is a mistake (and I don't think it's generally a popular move amongst virus scientists and doctors).

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11 hours ago, Plum said:

ght, there is absolutely no one in the world that both sides will listen to so lets keep Fauci. 

I don’t know or care about keeping Fauci or not, but yes, there is no one on the planet that both sides will listen too. And if such a person existed it would take 1 news cycle for that person to be excoriated  the minute he or she started saying hey, ya’ll get the darn vaccine already.  Mr. Rogers, Dolly Parton, Kermit the Frog.  As soon as they said Covid is real and the vaccine is good they would become Fauci 2.0 in a heartbeat.  It’s not the messenger, it’s the message.  Those against the vaccine do not want to hear that it’s safe and effective.  They want to hear their own opinion, that it causes infertility and kills people, and isn’t needed bc Covid is a hoax, come out of the mouth of a National public health official.  

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6 minutes ago, HeartString said:

I don’t know or care about keeping Fauci or not, but yes, there is no one on the planet that both sides will listen too. And if such a person existed it would take 1 news cycle for that person to be excoriated  the minute he or she started saying hey, ya’ll get the darn vaccine already.  Mr. Rogers, Dolly Parton, Kermit the Frog.  As soon as they said Covid is real and the vaccine is good they would become Fauci 2.0 in a heartbeat.  It’s not the messenger, it’s the message.  Those against the vaccine do not want to hear that it’s safe and effective.  They want to hear their own opinion, that it causes infertility and kills people, and isn’t needed bc Covid is a hoax, come out of the mouth of a National public health official.  

QFT!

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