Jump to content

Menu

The “vaccination divide” in the US


Quill
 Share

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

I agree that he spread the fraud lie for months and months before the election but I do not think he thought it was possible he could actually lose. I think, in his personality-disordered way, he simply did not think one possible outcome is himself losing legitimately. I think he thought that, in the first place, millions of people are enthralled with him, and in the second place, he believed his Mafia-style “loyalty” would be on his side, for instance, his SCOTUS picks would put him in there if nothing else. 

He can have full blown NPD but not be completely delusional.  He was surprised when he won the first time.  I wouldn't be that surprised if he didn't vote for Hillary too.  I think even he is surprised by the way people loved him - as evidenced by that comment about how he could murder someone.

I think he saw the writing on the wall when Kamala Harris was announced as the VP candidate.  If I recall correctly he started attacking her before she was chosen.  And he immediately tried to disenfranchise black voters.

My evidence for this is that he was leaking rumors of starting his own news network before the election. I don't know if that's still in the cards or if he's so distracted by legal matters it will be a while.  What I do know for sure is that it won't stop when he's dead.  People will claim it was a conspiracy and he's in hiding and he'll come back to life to take out the pedophiles for a good 30 years.

ETA: Sometimes I wonder if he didn't have full blown NPD until he was elected.  He had narcissistic tendencies, but most politicians do.

Edited by Katy
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Quill said:

I agree that he spread the fraud lie for months and months before the election but I do not think he thought it was possible he could actually lose. I think, in his personality-disordered way, he simply did not think one possible outcome is himself losing legitimately. I think he thought that, in the first place, millions of people are enthralled with him, and in the second place, he believed his Mafia-style “loyalty” would be on his side, for instance, his SCOTUS picks would put him in there if nothing else. 

He himself may have been completely deluded, but certainly many of those around him knew the likely outcome and the advantage of setting up the groundwork for the “stolen election” lie strongly and far in advance. It’s just so sad that so many leaders would put our democracy at such risk in the name of power and continue to perpetuate the lie despite all evidence to the contrary.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, RootAnn said:

 

@KSera 10,000 is big for where I am. I live rural. Towns of 49, 159, 529, or the big ones like where I live of 3,000. Our entire county only has 7000 people in it. The county hospital has maybe 5 beds total. High deaths due to drugs & alcohol among young people. Plenty of cancer deaths. More than normal old people's deaths this last year. But death is part of life out here. So, yes, most people here will say their lives and their children's sports (which is king in our town) should not be disrupted for 3% hospitalization & even less covid-caused deaths. 

 

You must live in a similar area to me. A whopping total of 1000 in the entire county, and several towns with populations well under 100. A town with 10,000 would be a bustling metropolis. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, skywards said:

You must live in a similar area to me. A whopping total of 1000 in the entire county, and several towns with populations well under 100. A town with 10,000 would be a bustling metropolis. 

I was the one who used the 10,000 number and for what it’s worth, my town is way, way smaller than 10,000 also, I’m just aware that 10,000 is still considered a relatively small city, and it made for easy example numbers. My point still stands that I don’t think people understand what having a 3% risk of hospitalization and 1% risk of death means. Those aren’t tiny risks compared to most things we do in life. 

Edited by KSera
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

I was the one who used the 10,000 number and for what it’s worth, my town is way, way smaller than 10,000 also, I’m just aware that 10,000 is still considered a relatively small city, and it made for easy example numbers. My point still stands that I don’t think people understand what having a 3% risk of hospitalization and 1% risk of death means. Those aren’t tiny risks compared to most things we do in life. 

I agree with you and I have been earnestly trying to educate people whenever I can that if 100 million people have gotten the Pfizer vaccine and it offered 96% protection against hospitalization, the rest of the 4% are going to be badly affected. 4% of 100 million computes to 4 million hospitalizations just in one "season" or one "covid wave". I have used this reasoning to explain how contagious Delta strain is with friends who like to shop without masks and I have been told that this is "Sensationalism". And in recent news, my county (and every neighboring county) recommended masking in indoor settings.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, KSera said:

I was the one who used the 10,000 number and for what it’s worth, my town is way, way smaller than 10,000 also, I’m just aware that 10,000 is still considered a relatively small city, and it made for easy example numbers. My point still stands that I don’t think people understand what having a 3% risk of hospitalization and 1% risk of death means. Those aren’t tiny risks compared to most things we do in life. 

Honestly I was just amused and slightly amazed that someone else on here actually lives in a town/county/area as small as mine is. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

Please provide proof that that (“Come to Chinatown…”) was ever a Democrat message. 
Proof is not some conservative rag bag saying such a thing happened. Proof is links to Democrats stating what you claim they did. 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, frogger said:

Almost everyone I knew had what felt like colds too except my BIL(who was fully vaccinated) who was hospitalized and an older lady I know, also hospitalized for a couple days. I really think this clusters so much it really hits people very differently. One person can lose many while another doesn't know anyone seriously ill. It is the nature of the beast.

Similar here.  I know very few people IRL who had any Covid symptoms at all.  Those whom I know IRL who had symptoms thought it was a cold or similar mild bug.  I do know of a couple people who are not close who got quite ill, but recovered.  I have a friend who lost a second cousin in India, and the lady who groomed my dog lost her grandma (who was fully vaxed) to Covid.  That said, I still don't want my unvaxed mom to catch Covid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, SKL said:

 

She did not say come and enjoy the parade, as it had already taken place. Lots more falsehoods about the visit and Trump’s statements are explained here.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/

It is pretty interesting for people to try and dig up one claim that a Democratic leader downplayed the virus threat when many Republican leaders continue to do so daily. There is nothing remotely equivalent going on nor was there ever.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Seems to me that the GOP leaders will realize that their voters are dying faster than the Democrat's voters, and at that point go beg people to get vaccinated. Especially in tight swing states like FL where just 1000 dead GOP voters could flip the state and the election.

Is this actually the case, though?  I’ve thought that perhaps some of the political divide in perceptions of covid risk is based on most of the worst hit areas being left-leaning denser population regions, and many right-leaning more rural areas generally taking a lighter toll.  Even Florida, with its dense, older population, had escaped much of the worst of covid for whatever reason, a few months ago when I was still watching those stats.  Are there numbers now showing republicans dying in higher numbers, now that everyone who wants to be is vaxed?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Frances said:

She did not say come and enjoy the parade, as it had already taken place. Lots more falsehoods about the visit and Trump’s statements are explained here.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/

It is pretty interesting for people to try and dig up one claim that a Democratic leader downplayed the virus threat when many Republican leaders continue to do so daily. There is nothing remotely equivalent going on nor was there ever.

I didn't try to dig up anything, I remember how things actually happened at the time.  You asked for proof so I posted a video with the then highest level democrat stating the democrat position.

The fact is that both sides have politicized this disease from the beginning, and they continue to do so.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

Please provide proof that that (“Come to Chinatown…”) was ever a Democrat message. 
Proof is not some conservative rag bag saying such a thing happened. Proof is links to Democrats stating what you claim they did. 

I'm Asian...this really did happen because our communities were talking about it. This is a SF local news station.

https://www.kron4.com/video/nancy-pelosi-encourages-chinatown-visitors/4354116/

Edited by calbear
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, mathnerd said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/young-unvaccinated-people-are-being-hospitalized-covid-19-delta-variant-n1273998

You are very fortunate if you did not know any young and healthy people who have gotten seriously ill due to Covid.

So far, I have not personally known a single person who had Covid, nor has any other member of my 14 person family. My family situation is a little unusual though. I have been housebound due to health issues for about a year now, my hubby works from home, two other household members have been unemployed for quite a long time now, one of my other dd is a SAHM and her hubby owns a restaurant with a full time manager so he rarely has to go in, another dd works from home. So of our family of 14 people, only three work outside the home and one of those doesn't live here. We only socialize with each other and leave our homes as little as possible. Where I live at least, I don't think that it is terribly uncommon to not know a person who has had covid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lack of trust in media / messaging is a big problem, and media of all stripes are guilty of this.  Naturally, people who have been burned by believing lies called "news" are going to look elsewhere for information, or just give up.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Seems to me that the GOP leaders will realize that their voters are dying faster than the Democrat's voters, and at that point go beg people to get vaccinated. Especially in tight swing states like FL where just 1000 dead GOP voters could flip the state and the election.

I have seen a few articles that talk about how the anti-vax stance of some politicians might be affected by deaths in swing states. I will link them to this post later if I find them ..

And, there have been recent surprising pro-vaccine statements from GOP leaders and also some Fox news commentators who have millions of followers - which made headline news in the media because many were truly surprised at the turn of events.

For now, my quick googling produced this link

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/in-the-middle-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic-how-have-swing-counties-fared/

 

Edited by mathnerd
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Condessa said:

Is this actually the case, though?  I’ve thought that perhaps some of the political divide in perceptions of covid risk is based on most of the worst hit areas being left-leaning denser population regions, and many right-leaning more rural areas generally taking a lighter toll.  Even Florida, with its dense, older population, had escaped much of the worst of covid for whatever reason, a few months ago when I was still watching those stats.  Are there numbers now showing republicans dying in higher numbers, now that everyone who wants to be is vaxed?

Many of the highest death per capita states are red states. It’s true the areas hit early renews to be more densely populated, bluer areas, but then it shifted. Right now, it’s very much red counties being hit hard, many of them rural. Which isn’t surprising of course that areas with higher unvaccinated rates are going to have higher death rates. 

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

I didn't try to dig up anything, I remember how things actually happened at the time.  You asked for proof so I posted a video with the then highest level democrat stating the democrat position.

The fact is that both sides have politicized this disease from the beginning, and they continue to do so.

Like I already said, context matters. This was February 2020, before anything at all was closing here. Some people were avoiding patronizing Asian businesses for reasons that had nothing to do with taking Covid precautions. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

So far, I have not personally known a single person who had Covid, nor has any other member of my 14 person family. My family situation is a little unusual though. I have been housebound due to health issues for about a year now, my hubby works from home, two other household members have been unemployed for quite a long time now, one of my other dd is a SAHM and her hubby owns a restaurant with a full time manager so he rarely has to go in, another dd works from home. So of our family of 14 people, only three work outside the home and one of those doesn't live here. We only socialize with each other and leave our homes as little as possible. Where I live at least, I don't think that it is terribly uncommon to not know a person who has had covid.

My sincere hope is that it stays that way!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, SKL said:

I didn't try to dig up anything, I remember how things actually happened at the time.  You asked for proof so I posted a video with the then highest level democrat stating the democrat position.

The fact is that both sides have politicized this disease from the beginning, and they continue to do so.

I didn’t ask for proof of anything. And where does it say she was stating the Democratic position? She was talking about her district. Certainly the virus has been politicized, I’ll agree with that. But only one side has pretty consistently been downplaying the threat since the very beginning. There have been a few R leaders who have spoke the truth and urged masking and vaccination and spoken out against the spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories. But not nearly enough.

I also don’t understand what happened to all of the concern about businesses, especially small businesses. If people really cared like they claimed to when the lockdowns were taking place, they would get vaccinated already.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing though ... nobody asked me my party when I got vaxed.  Nobody asked party when my kids got vaxed, or my friends or relatives.  So how do they even know the ratio of Republican  and Democrats who are vaxed?  Didn't someone once post that this came from some sort of facebook survey?  Talk about unscientific ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Condessa said:

Is this actually the case, though?  I’ve thought that perhaps some of the political divide in perceptions of covid risk is based on most of the worst hit areas being left-leaning denser population regions, and many right-leaning more rural areas generally taking a lighter toll.  Even Florida, with its dense, older population, had escaped much of the worst of covid for whatever reason, a few months ago when I was still watching those stats.  Are there numbers now showing republicans dying in higher numbers, now that everyone who wants to be is vaxed?

I don’t know that anyone is tracking deaths by political affiliation. Some FL hospitals are reporting more covid patients than ever. It has been the case in my state that conservative areas have been hard hit. Some of the hardest hit areas per capita have been the very rural, sparsely populated counties with low vaccine rates. While sparsely populated, people tend to congregate in the same, few places. There was also quite a bit of outright defiance of mandates concerning gatherings and masking by churches.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

One thing though ... nobody asked me my party when I got vaxed.  Nobody asked party when my kids got vaxed, or my friends or relatives.  So how do they even know the ratio of Republican  and Democrats who are vaxed?  Didn't someone once post that this came from some sort of facebook survey?  Talk about unscientific ....

I think the only research that has been done is looking at votes in the presidential election and vaccination rates by county. So certainly not perfect data. I believe it has been discussed previously on this board in one of the covid threads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, SKL said:

Lack of trust in media / messaging is a big problem, and media of all stripes are guilty of this.  Naturally, people who have been burned by believing lies called "news" are going to look elsewhere for information, or just give up.

But some leaders have also conditioned people to mistrust the media and lump it all together as the enemy and equally biased and not to be trusted. It’s part of the standard playbook for populists and authoritarian, wanna be dictators.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Frances said:

But some leaders have also conditioned people to mistrust the media and lump it all together as the enemy and equally biased and not to be trusted. It’s part of the standard playbook for populists and authoritarian, wanna be dictators.

Or some leaders rode the wave of distrust that already existed long before.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

Or some leaders rode the wave of distrust that already existed long before.

Yes, it’s been used as a political wedge issue for a long time and a justification for more extreme media. Some just amplified it to a whole new level because it played so well to their base. It is ironic to me though that people accepted being continually lied to by the same leaders telling them not to believe the media, except their own favorite sources. But even then, only when they report what they want them to report. 

Edited by Frances
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Frances said:

Yes, it’s been used as a political wedge issue for a long time and a justification for more extreme media. Some just amplified it to a whole new level because it played so well to their base. It is ironic to me though that people accepted being continually lied to by the same leaders telling them not to believe the media, except their own favorite sources. But even then, only when they report what they want them to report. 

Ironic but not surprising.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, KSera said:

I was confused by the data in this, until I realized that the date on it is June 2020, not June 2021. Things have changed a whole lot since June 2020.

oops .. here is the recent link:

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/with-supporters-dying-republicans-swing-to-supporting-covid-vaccines/

 

Edited by mathnerd
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I agree with you and I have been earnestly trying to educate people whenever I can that if 100 million people have gotten the Pfizer vaccine and it offered 96% protection against hospitalization, the rest of the 4% are going to be badly affected. 4% of 100 million computes to 4 million hospitalizations just in one "season" or one "covid wave". I have used this reasoning to explain how contagious Delta strain is with friends who like to shop without masks and I have been told that this is "Sensationalism". And in recent news, my county (and every neighboring county) recommended masking in indoor settings.

Well hang on though. The point of vaccination is that it reduces spread by reducing - very significantly - the likelihood that the virus will find a host. If 100 million people get the Pfizer vaccine, there *may not be* 4 million people getting covid anyway/spreading it to others, who then get covid too and spread it to others. The point of vaccination is firewalling spread. That’s why states with low vaccination uptake are also states with rising cases/mostly Delta. 
 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not “highly educated” in the formal sense, and considered myself vaccine... hesitant, I guess, at one point. But I’m very left-leaning and believe in societal good over individual “convenience”, for lack of a more suitable, more encompassing word. And not just in regard to healthy young people; old and sick people have intrinsic value, too.

I lost a lot of elderly loved ones, nearly lost a few younger Boomers/older GenXers, my son would have been hospitalized if there had been space in the hospital, and my husband was pretty sick and lost taste and smell for a good while.

Every family member got jabbed as soon as they were eligible.

If staying home, or getting vaccinated, or wearing a mask saved one person from severe illness or worse, keeping myself from getting ill is just icing on the cake.  I am not super special on my own. How I impact others is what makes my existence matter.

Anyway, that’s how I landed on my side of the vaccine divide. Societal pressure to “act normal” has been more complicated than that, and I’m definitely considered overly reactive in some of my circles... and not necessarily the ones I expected.

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Quill said:

I don’t think lots of people think CNN is unbiased, though. You can think Fox is awful and still think CNN is too. A couple of the shows on Fox are so biased I can hardly bear to be in a room with it on. But I have also turned off CNN while saying, “Such bologney!”

Fox News has argued in court that no one takes them seriously.  So there is that.  
 

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

Now comes the claim that you can't expect to literally believe the words that come out of Carlson's mouth. And that assertion is not coming from Carlson's critics. It's being made by a federal judge in the Southern District of New York and by Fox News's own lawyers in defending Carlson against accusations of slander. It worked, by the way.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, regentrude said:

But people are not listening to public health educators. That's the crux of the issue here: they are considered "government", and are to be distrusted. The backlash against anything the local health departments try to do is unbelievable (people resigned because they and their families were threatened so much).
And how do you reach a person whose minister has convinced her the vaccine is "the mark of the beast"? 

Personal contact from respected and familiar doctors seems to have worked for many people here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-56253139

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SKL said:

 

Huh? Your claim was that the *Democrat* message was "Come to Chinatown and enjoy the New Year's parade". You post a video that shows one Democrat stating (in February, 2020 - before there was *any* governmental guidance for shutdowns, masking, or distancing) that people should not be afraid to come and shop in Chinatown, a district in her own constituency (& thereby a direct concern of hers), which had been taking an economic hit due to early fears of Covid. She also directly stated that she trusted Dr. Fauci and the NIH, and that people should be concerned and vigilant. That's very different than your claim, which was:

"And the democrats also downplayed Covid early on, accusing conservatives of being racist for thinking maybe we shouldn't import Covid too eagerly. "Come to Chinatown and enjoy the New Year's parade" was the Democrat message".

If you want to take people's words out of context, twist them, expand them, and then use that as evidence for sweeping claims you make, then so be it, but don't look to me to affirm it as truth.

11 hours ago, calbear said:

I'm Asian...this really did happen because our communities were talking about it. This is a SF local news station.

https://www.kron4.com/video/nancy-pelosi-encourages-chinatown-visitors/4354116/

See above.

Edited by Happy2BaMom
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 3
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, whitestavern said:

Aren't they all private and discrete? How would ones friends and family possible know if they got vaccinated unless they were told? 

They are definitely not all private and discreet. Pharmacies (Walmart, Walgreens) are big providers of the vaccine, and you generally walk up to a specific window to get your paperwork. It's overall not very private at all, in the sense that bystanders will almost certainly know you are there to get vaccinated. 

In some places, they have vaccination sites set up for the sole purpose, so obviously you are getting vaxxed if you are there, and people would just need to drive by and see your car in the parking lot to know. 

I do think more people would get it if they were sure others wouldn't know about it.  

18 hours ago, J-rap said:

I'm curious about this attitude, because isn't the main point of the vaccination -- if we're healthy and not elderly -- to keep it from spreading to those who are most vulnerable?   

 It's bigger than just saying I don't need the vaccine because I'm healthy.

QFT 

17 hours ago, frogger said:

My step mom said, "I like Trump but warp speed on a vaccine? No thank you." 

Worst name for a healthcare project ever, lol. 

17 hours ago, SKL said:

I remember the days when the libs were the anti-vax group because the vax was a Trump thing.  It's interesting how history gets re-written.

I don't think that liberals or Democrats as a group were ever "anti vax". Some people like to say that VP Harris was, but actually all she said was that she wouldn't take Trump's word for a vax being safe, that she would definitely want a trustworthy public health group to vouch for it. 

It was political theater in the sense that of course you're not taking the word of a politician about medical issues, but it was not anti vax. 

17 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

 Accessibility has different meanings to different people. If you can't take time off to get vaccinated, or stay home if you have bad side effects, that affects how accessible a vaccine is to you. 

This. We had a lot of pharmacies offering vax outside business hours, so that wasn't an issue around here, but staying home with side effects was for many, I'm sure. I could not work the day after getting it. 

17 hours ago, SKL said:

As most black Americans live in cities, physical distance isn't the reason either.

This is not correct and hasn't been for a long time. 

17 hours ago, TCB said:

Do you have any idea how vaccines became so repugnant to conservatives, given how Trump did speed along development and was very positive about them before they were released? I think that is a very interesting thing.

I think that a lot of people are so accustomed to living with a high level of cognitive dissonance that they don't even notice it any more. 

16 hours ago, Quill said:

Right but they didn’t actually know they were going to do that stolen election B.S., right?  

Trump was talking about election fraud well before the 2016 election, even within his own party, "Ted Cruz didn't win Iowa, he stole it." 

 

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't make any claims about it or interpret what she said. You are ascribing statements and conclusions by other posters to me that I didn't make anywhere in this thread or elsewhere on the forums. 

2 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

If you want to take people's words out of context, twist them, expand them, and then use that as evidence for sweeping claims you make, then so be it, but don't look to me to affirm it as truth.

Wow...didn't you just do this to me? 

I was just telling you she did really go to the area so that you could see what she said as you asked for a media source that wasn't a conservative news outlet. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Are you saying the majority of US black people live rurally?

"Rural" and "city" are hardly the only two choices. 

I don't live in a city, and I don't live in a rural area. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will also add that I am not supporting Trump and the R response either. I think that both parties have failed the country in different ways throughout this whole pandemic. No one's hands are clean here.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a pretty good first 100 days look at the US response from POGO, an independent watchdog group. When I read back through, you can see the missed opportunities which hopefully can be learned for the next time a pandemic happens.


https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2020/05/the-first-100-days-of-the-u-s-governments-covid-19-response/

 

Edited by calbear
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, calbear said:

I will also add that I am not supporting Trump and the R response either. I think that both parties have failed the country in different ways throughout this whole pandemic. No one's hands are clean here.

Do you think the parties have equally failed? IOWs, do you think they bear equal responsibility for the pandemic being as bad as it was/is? 

For me, I can agree with your statement but also say I think the Rs bear way WAY more responsibility for it being as bad as it was/is, and they continue to do so.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/23/2021 at 11:46 AM, Ordinary Shoes said:

A vaccination for a virus is different than other medical decisions. If someone is diagnosed with cancer and does not receive treatment, that does not increase that other people will get cancer. 

I think we aren't used to seeing divides like this because until very recently almost everyone was vaccinated. But we're going to see more battles like this as people opt their children out of childhood vaccines. Would there be this kind of a divide in a community where some people have newborn babies and other people refuse to vaccinate their children against whooping cough? I think many of us don't know that we exposed our newborns to unvaccinated children. Or that when we were pregnant, we were exposed to children not vaccinated for the measles. What happens when we know? 

 


It may depend on the outcome of the current situation. If pro vaxxers prove to have made the right decision and the vax resistors die, then pro vaxxers will probably dominate the future world. If pro vaxxers are making wrong decision the reverse will probably be true. If both groups largely survive then I guess the hatred will continue, unless people learn not to hate, and not to “other” those who disagree with their point of view
 

whooping cough is an interesting example choice — locally we had big whooping cough outbreak amongst vaccinated kids in recent years btw  ! 

I am sure everyone on Wtm knows the msm view of CV19 vaxxes  - or if not can easily find that

Otoh:


https://www.bitchute.com/video/1NPihUuZaup0/

 

this accords more with my education, but I accept that you are entitled to have and to express your own opinion - even though I think you do not accept that I am 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Pen said:


It may depend on the outcome of the current situation. If pro vaxxers prove to have made the right decision and the vax resistors die, then pro vaxxers will probably dominate the future world. If pro vaxxers are making wrong decision the reverse will probably be true. If both groups largely survive then I guess the hatred will continue, unless people learn not to hate, and not to “other” those who disagree with their point of view
 

whooping cough is an interesting example choice — locally we had big whooping cough outbreak amongst vaccinated kids in recent years btw  ! 

I am sure everyone on Wtm knows the msm view of CV19 vaxxes  - or if not can easily find that

Otoh:


https://www.bitchute.com/video/1NPihUuZaup0/

 

this accords more with my education, but I accept that you are entitled to have and to express your own opinion - even though I think you do not accept that I am 

 

Immunity wanes over time which is how vaccinated children can get pertussis. However, the root cause of the outbreak is unvaccinated children. 

I think you're entitled to your own opinion but I'm not sure that you're entitled to spread false information. 

You write that it accords with your own education? Do you mean your education or your opinion? Or things you read yourself? 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, regentrude said:

Not anymore. Vaccines are readily available and accessible now to anybody who wants them.

 

20 hours ago, SKL said:

Maybe it was 6+ months ago.  Now it is free and ridiculously accessible to anyone past their 12th birthday.  As most black Americans live in cities, physical distance isn't the reason either.

There are vaccines available, but I wouldn’t call them entirely accessible yet. I have a family member who needs accommodations in order to be able to get vaccinated. There has not yet been a way for them to get the vaccine with the needed accommodations.

18 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

I guess if you've reached peak vaccine uptake, then you have, and maybe send the surplus elsewhere ? 

I still think failures of public health are failures of public health, and not individual failures. There are clearly systemic issues at play if you can't get the majority of any population vaccinated. 

 

This above is a fear of mine. That the above belief will be taken so literally, since the easy to vaccinate have been done, enough people will believe that no one else wants it, and it will become a problem of both accessibility and availability for others to get vaccinated.

Yes, I believe we should help others elsewhere when we can. But who is making the decisions of when we can and how much?

The voices insisting that EVERYONE who wants a vaccine already has it are vehement and loud. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...