Jump to content

Menu

The “vaccination divide” in the US


Quill
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, TCB said:

Do you have any idea how vaccines became so repugnant to conservatives, given how Trump did speed along development and was very positive about them before they were released? I think that is a very interesting thing.

Seems to me that the GOP leaders will realize that their voters are dying faster than the Democrat's voters, and at that point go beg people to get vaccinated. Especially in tight swing states like FL where just 1000 dead GOP voters could flip the state and the election.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm not a public health person, so I'm not exactly sure what options are open. I'd imagine local solutions for local issues could be optimal. 

I just know that public health is not a discipline that can or should write off a segment of the population for any reason. 

Can't reach a cohort? And it's important for public health that you do? It's not really an option to just write off Fox viewers, kwim?

I assure you that the public health folks in my area are having sleepless nights over this. Nothing has worked in a year and they're working their butts off. Our health department and the local hospital both have fantastic information, keep us updated on social media - but you should see the comments. Even confronted with numbers and personal testimony and pleas by doctors, people insist that Covid is a hoax, is no big deal, the numbers are made up, only sheep wear masks. The concern is NOT "technology is too new/I am concerned about side effects/I feel I want to wait until we have more data". It's "God will protect me so I don't need to mask let alone get vaxxed". 

ETA: Just read this comment on the local fb page: "God gave me an immune system for a reason". uh, ok.

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 3
  • Sad 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But people are not listening to public health educators. That's the crux of the issue here: they are considered "government", and are to be distrusted. The backlash against anything the local health departments try to do is unbelievable (people resigned because they and their families were threatened so much).
And how do you reach a person whose minister has convinced her the vaccine is "the mark of the beast"? 

I know that in our county, some of the more outspoken Republican supporters wanted to name and shame the contact tracers working for the health department.

  • Sad 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Ah, sigh. Don't trust wikipedia.  I got that list from 'republican party (usa)'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)

There has been a big shift in the Republican party. A few decades ago, they were fiscal conservatives pro economic freedom. Now the main focus has moved to social issues and preserving what is best described as "Christian family values".

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing that was done here was the Māori and Pacifica were vaccinated first because they have such terrible health outcomes.  So the tribes and churches have been huge in getting their populations to accept the vaccine. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's an example of what you might call an intellectual defense of Trumpism. It provides a good example of conservatism in the Trump era. This isn't Reagan's party anymore. 

Against the Dead Consensus

Of note, the editor of this magazine got in trouble about a year ago. He wrote a bunch of weird Tweets accusing people who wore masks of being unmanly. It was truly bizarre. 

The linked article was written in 2019. Compare that to mask refusals. Reading the article, do you think those people would wear masks or not in the name of "individual liberty?" I think a fair reading would be to assume that they would be maskers. 

But most of them weren't which tells us something very interesting about all of this. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Seasider too said:

Except those <12yo. This is a big factor with regard to masking at schools this fall. 

absolutely; I was responding to Melissa's comment about racial inequalities with respect to vaccine access

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps it has already be discussed. But can someone please explain to me why more conservative people are less likely to get the vaccine in the USA. What does being conservative have to do with vaccines?  Here in NZ, it is not political -- getting vaccinated has nothing to do with politics. We definitely have an antivax crowd, but in my experience, they are either hippies or part of the Brethren - so on completely opposite ends of the spectrum of politics.

Trump split the conservative party apart completely.  Thoughts about whether government is best small & local vs huge are completely gone.  Trump isn’t conservative in any way. He wants large centralized government but with him in charge.  This change is why political talk isn’t generally allowed but Trump talk is.  He’s a personality not someone versed in politics.  He tried to be a populist but instead of caring for people in a crisis he pretended it didn’t exist because it was an economic threat.  If he had taken it seriously he probably would be widely popular now.  Instead he’s extremely divisive.

20 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Well, that is why I am so confused. Didn't Trump push really hard to get the vaccine made in record time?  Why in the world would he and his party not want to take credit for that and push for all Republicans to take advantage of the Republican vaccine?

Yes but he also made fun of people who took the virus seriously. 

8 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Conservatives in the USA are for supply side economics, free trade, traditional values, and individual freedom.  Where does anti science come into that?

I think you are saying that conservatives = antiscience = antivaccines.

I can understand conservatives = individual freedom = no mask wearing.

But I can't make sense of where the antiscience comes from.

True conservatives were “never Trump”ers and never voted for him.  It isn’t a question of politics as much as whether you saw Trump as worth supporting because he was on your team.

  • Like 14
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, SKL said:

And the democrats also downplayed Covid early on, accusing conservatives of being racist for thinking maybe we shouldn't import Covid too eagerly.  "Come to Chinatown and enjoy the New Year's parade" was the Democrat message.

Please provide proof that that (“Come to Chinatown…”) was ever a Democrat message. 
Proof is not some conservative rag bag saying such a thing happened. Proof is links to Democrats stating what you claim they did. 

Edited by Happy2BaMom
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm not a public health person, so I'm not exactly sure what options are open. I'd imagine local solutions for local issues could be optimal. 

I just know that public health is not a discipline that can or should write off a segment of the population for any reason. 

Can't reach a cohort? And it's important for public health that you do? It's not really an option to just write off Fox viewers, kwim?

My state is dealing with it by trying to make the public health message as local as possible. Each county has its own public health department and since the majority of statewide directives have been lifted, the county health departments more than ever are tasked with vaccine messaging and delivery. But recent interviews with county health department leaders in the very rural parts of the state with low vaccination rates and high case rates show they are not at all optimistic about increasing vaccine uptake.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

There has been a big shift in the Republican party. A few decades ago, they were fiscal conservatives pro economic freedom. Now the main focus has moved to social issues and preserving what is best described as "Christian family values".

Yes, I am a Christian, but honestly tge Republican party no longer represents me. I an pro life…ALl life including Black lives. I am a fiscal conservative.(Which Trump was not)  I believe in common sense gun control.  I have no party

  • Like 13
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Seems to me that the GOP leaders will realize that their voters are dying faster than the Democrat's voters, and at that point go beg people to get vaccinated. Especially in tight swing states like FL where just 1000 dead GOP voters could flip the state and the election.

I have a feeling the GOP leaders are feeling very out of control. The people who are in control are those who get the most clicks on the internet. Those who use rage and fear to incite people.

Our poor Republican governor actually had to write a letter and delivered it to everyone in our district explaining that our state Rep had done nothing but impede his staff during the crisis and make up things. She is a conspiracy theory nut and does nothing but cause everyone headache but how do you get rid of her when such a large group are addicted to anger click bait and she is more famous than the nice unknown rep next door who actually thinks things through and tries to help his community? 

  • Sad 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

True conservatives were “never Trump”ers and never voted for him.  It isn’t a question of politics as much as whether you saw Trump as worth supporting because he was on your team.

YES!!!!!!!

He is authoritarian.  I voted for Biden last time. 3rd party first time. Biden felt like at least he had a moral bone in his body even if I disagreed with some of his policies. Trump was borderline insane at the end. 

  • Like 13
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I assure you that the public health folks in my area are having sleepless nights over this. Nothing has worked in a year and they're working their butts off. Our health department nd the local hospital both have fantastic information, keep us updated on social media - but you should see the comments. Even confronted with numbers and personal testimony and please by doctors, people insist that Covid is a hoax, is no big deal, the numbers are made up, only sheep wear masks. The concern is NOT "technology is too new/I am concerned about side effects/I feel I want to wait until we have more data". It's "God will protect me so I don't need to mask let alone get vaxxed". 

Yes. In a less educated cohort, you will get unreachable groups.*

You don't waste resources on unreachable. My objection is conflating ALL less educated with unreachable. Find the hesitant, work to reach them. Perhaps in your area, that's already been done - you've already reached the less educated hesitant. You've got the ceiling. 

Or maybe there are structural reasons the hesitant staff aren't responding as they should. 

*There are unreachable groups re vaccines at all education levels in my experience. I've met PhD educated liberal Americans who don't vaccinate, and our highest pockets of anti vaccination here correlate with Green + wealth. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, frogger said:

I have a feeling the GOP leaders are feeling very out of control. The people who are in control are those who get the most clicks on the internet. Those who use rage and fear to incite people.

Our poor Republican governor actually had to write a letter and delivered it to everyone in our district explaining that our state Rep had done nothing but impede his staff during the crisis and make up things. She is a conspiracy theory nut and does nothing but cause everyone headache but how do you get rid of her when such a large group are addicted to anger click bait and she is more famous than the nice unknown rep next door who actually thinks things through and tries to help his community? 

That’s likely a spin off question, but I don’t think there is a way unless as a culture we start making fun of people addicted to rage media. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, I am a Christian, but honestly tge Republican party no longer represents me. I an pro life…ALl life including Black lives. I am a fiscal conservative.(Which Trump was not)  I believe in common sense gun control.  I have no party

Yeah, there is nothing Christian about them. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TexasProud said:

YES!!!!!!!

He is authoritarian.  I voted for Biden last time. 3rd party first time. Biden felt like at least he had a moral bone in his body even if I disagreed with some of his policies. Trump was borderline insane at the end. 

Yes me too.  I don’t agree with everything Biden says but I’m certain he’s a good person trying to do what’s right for the country. 

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

Within the less educated cohort, you're only trying to reach the hesitant - there's zero point trying to reach mark of the devil madness.

If the hesitant less educated aren't listening, the public health campaign is no good. 

The hesitant within the less educated cohort are being fed misinformation. Cynical manipulation of the masses and political gain are all part of the picture. My DH says that most of the Senators and Congresspeople who are publicly opposed to vaccines are themselves vaccinated (I don't know his source, but he said he read it in on a news site like NBC or CNN).

  • Like 6
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, mathnerd said:

The hesitant within the less educated cohort are being fed misinformation. Cynical manipulation of the masses and political gain are all part of the picture. My DH says that most of the Senators and Congresspeople who are publicly opposed to vaccines are themselves vaccinated (I don't know his source, but he said he read it in on a news site like NBC or CNN).

Oh, I'd believe that! Politician  hypocrisy is not hard to believe at all.  

I guess misinformation takes hold in particular contexts where trust is very low. 

It's still a problem to be solved at the population level, not by blaming individuals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yes. In a less educated cohort, you will get unreachable groups.*

You don't waste resources on unreachable. My objection is conflating ALL less educated with unreachable. Find the hesitant, work to reach them. Perhaps in your area, that's already been done - you've already reached the less educated hesitant. You've got the ceiling. 

Or maybe there are structural reasons the hesitant staff aren't responding as they should. 

*There are unreachable groups re vaccines at all education levels in my experience. I've met PhD educated liberal Americans who don't vaccinate, and our highest pockets of anti vaccination here correlate with Green + wealth. 

I think part of the problem is several cases of famous Black people who died within days of getting the vaccine. Hank Aaron being one example.  The city closest to me had early access for black people, but few people showed up.  Last I heard they had people going door to door offering vaccines.  Few takers. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, TCB said:

Do you have any idea how vaccines became so repugnant to conservatives, given how Trump did speed along development and was very positive about them before they were released? I think that is a very interesting thing.

The cynical side of me says it likely has something to do with who was in power when the vaccines became readily available. Republicans had long been conditioned not to trust the government or science. And a great deal of misinformation about the virus was spread by Republican leaders from the very beginning. So by the time the vaccine was available, many didn’t trust the science or the government and many Republican leaders used this to retain support with their base. They didn’t want to be seen supporting something that might benefit the new administration who might then be able to say they led the country in bringing an end to the pandemic.

It’s important to note that some conservatives here no longer consider themselves Republicans and see the Republican Party as having been hijacked by extremists and populists. That’s why you had many lifelong Republican leaders endorsing the current president in the last election and/or leaving the Republican Party.

  • Like 6
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Muttichen1 said:

I didn't say no one has gotten sick and died. Of course they have. But the chance of a young, healthy person getting seriously ill is very low. 

But you aren’t young, correct? You are at least middle aged? Given the relatively high rates of vaccination among the elderly, it’s not surprising that middle aged people and younger are now predominantly the ones getting hospitalized for covid in my area. 

Plus, getting vaccinated, masking, social distancing, etc. are not just things we do for ourselves, but things we do in the name of public health for the greater good. Our moral responsibility extends beyond our own selfish desires in order to help protect the most vulnerable among us. Not to mention give the overwhelmed health care professionals a break. It’s so strange to me that many conservative Christians are among those that do not seem to understand this, as it was a fundamental component of my religious upbringing.

Edited by Frances
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Seems to me that the GOP leaders will realize that their voters are dying faster than the Democrat's voters, and at that point go beg people to get vaccinated. Especially in tight swing states like FL where just 1000 dead GOP voters could flip the state and the election.

It seems that some Republican leaders and personalities have changed their tune in the last week or so with the Delta variant surging and the stock market taking its largest dip since last fall (it’s now bounced back). 
 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/fox-news-conservatives-vaccines-sean-hannity/619510/

Edited by Frances
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

I am fortunate as well. Our community did not lose any young or healthy people.

I do not know anyone who was sick with anything worse than cold-like symptoms either. And we are in a state that was hit pretty hard. As stated before I'm not vaxxed, not sure if I'll get it (won't say never), but am being extremely careful because I do realize there were a lot of bad outcomes. I go to work and do shopping/errands with a mask, and visit with others outside, and feel comfortable with that. I do wish we had more information - scratch that, I wish TPTB would share more information about who is really high risk, how/where most people are getting it, percentage with comorbidities, etc. I do a ton of research and feel pretty comfortable with my risk level, but it shouldn't be so hard to find the information. They were sharing more in the beginning of all this. My personal thought is they're afraid if they share, less people will get vaccinated. I am thankful that the UK and other countries are doing so much research and sharing so much information. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, regentrude said:

There has been a big shift in the Republican party. A few decades ago, they were fiscal conservatives pro economic freedom. Now the main focus has moved to social issues and preserving what is best described as "Christian family values".

Because social wedge issues are a great way to rally your base. Instilling anger and creating an us against them vibe is very, very effective politically.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, SKL said:

Trump was never anti-vax.  Hate him all you want, but he deserves a huge amount of credit for making the vaxes available ridiculously fast.  I remember the days when the libs were the anti-vax group because the vax was a Trump thing.  It's interesting how history gets re-written.

Like this? 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I do not know anyone who was sick with anything worse than cold-like symptoms either. And we are in a state that was hit pretty hard. As stated before I'm not vaxxed, not sure if I'll get it (won't say never), but am being extremely careful because I do realize there were a lot of bad outcomes. I go to work and do shopping/errands with a mask, and visit with others outside, and feel comfortable with that. I do wish we had more information - scratch that, I wish TPTB would share more information about who is really high risk, how/where most people are getting it, percentage with comorbidities, etc. I do a ton of research and feel pretty comfortable with my risk level, but it shouldn't be so hard to find the information. They were sharing more in the beginning of all this. My personal thought is they're afraid if they share, less people will get vaccinated. I am thankful that the UK and other countries are doing so much research and sharing so much information. 

Not even anyone who lost their sense of taste and smell? While my state has done a pretty good job through this whole thing, all of the people I know who got sick described it as being the sickest or almost the sickest they’ve ever been. And all were a bit freaked out by losing their sense of taste and smell and many by being so out of breath. I know two healthy 30 somethings who struggled with long covid for close to a year. Now granted maybe I don’t anyone who would describe it as only a cold because testing was really bad in my state for a long time.

Edited by Frances
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Seems to me that the GOP leaders will realize that their voters are dying faster than the Democrat's voters, and at that point go beg people to get vaccinated. Especially in tight swing states like FL where just 1000 dead GOP voters could flip the state and the election.

I thought this last year, when Trump et al was spurning mail in ballots and ballot box drop off as “ripe with fraud” (which is also the wrong word, but I digress), and pushing their constituency to go in person to polls, even if that means standing with other people for hours. It made NO sense to me why a political party would want it’s base to put themselves at risk of dying. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

I thought this last year, when Trump et al was spurning mail in ballots and ballot box drop off as “ripe with fraud” (which is also the wrong word, but I digress), and pushing their constituency to go in person to polls, even if that means standing with other people for hours. It made NO sense to me why a political party would want it’s base to put themselves at risk of dying. 

Because retaining power by keeping the lies about a stolen election alive and playing the wronged victim energizes your base? In order to have an “us”, you have to create a “them”. We’re all in this together is not an effective political strategy.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

 I do wish we had more information - scratch that, I wish TPTB would share more information about who is really high risk, how/where most people are getting it, percentage with comorbidities, etc. I do a ton of research and feel pretty comfortable with my risk level, but it shouldn't be so hard to find the information. They were sharing more in the beginning of all this. My personal thought is they're afraid if they share, less people will get vaccinated. I am thankful that the UK and other countries are doing so much research and sharing so much information. 

I was very perplexed when I saw there were a number of break through cases as I had been thrilled when it was previously announced that vaccines seem to prevent infections to a large extent. I have started being careful about masking around other people indoors again, as I don’t want to spread it to anyone. It is amazing, though, how the vaccinations are preventing serious illness. I am seeing that with my own eyes. Seeing it has persuaded several people I work with, who were previously hesitant, to get vaccinated.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Frances said:

Not even anyone who lost their sense of taste and smell? While my state has done a pretty good job through this whole thing, all of the people I know who got sick described it as being the sickest or almost the sickest they’ve ever been. And all were a bit freaked out by losing their sense of taste and smell and many by being so out of breath. I know two healthy 30 somethings who struggled with long covid for close to a year. Now granted maybe I don’t anyone who would describe it as only a cold because testing was really bad in my state for a long time.

Almost everyone I knew had what felt like colds too except my BIL(who was fully vaccinated) who was hospitalized and an older lady I know, also hospitalized for a couple days. I really think this clusters so much it really hits people very differently. One person can lose many while another doesn't know anyone seriously ill. It is the nature of the beast.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Frances said:

Because retaining power by keeping the lies about a stolen election alive and playing the wronged victim energizes your base? In order to have an “us”, you have to create a “them”. We’re all in this together is not an effective political strategy.

Right but they didn’t actually know they were going to do that stolen election B.S., right? Trump was still, apparently, right to think it was *possible* he might (legitimately) win. I guess I just don’t see why the us v. them tact to take would be, “*They* are fine with mail-in ballots and drop boxes and early voting, so *we* have to be against doing those things.” Like, why would *any* political party think the smartest route is to make it harder for people to vote? I mean, there’s got to be some would-be Trump voters who would be able to vote by mail in or Dropbox but not by standing around at a poll site. (Like a whole bunch of elderly folks, for instance.) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, I am a Christian, but honestly tge Republican party no longer represents me. I an pro life…ALl life including Black lives. I am a fiscal conservative.(Which Trump was not)  I believe in common sense gun control.  I have no party

I am in a similar situation.   I feel like I have no party.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Quill said:

Right but they didn’t actually know they were going to do that stolen election B.S., right? Trump was still, apparently, right to think it was *possible* he might (legitimately) win. I guess I just don’t see why the us v. them tact to take would be, “*They* are fine with mail-in ballots and drop boxes and early voting, so *we* have to be against doing those things.” Like, why would *any* political party think the smartest route is to make it harder for people to vote? I mean, there’s got to be some would-be Trump voters who would be able to vote by mail in or Dropbox but not by standing around at a poll site. (Like a whole bunch of elderly folks, for instance.) 

No, I believe they saw the hand writing on the wall and were setting up the stolen election claim far in advance of the actual election. Trump had actually used it before in regards to others long before 2020.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-longstanding-history-calling-elections-rigged-doesnt-results/story?id=74126926

Edited by Frances
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Frances said:

It’s important to note that some conservatives here no longer consider themselves Republicans and see the Republican Party as having been hijacked by extremists and populists. That’s why you had many lifelong Republican leaders endorsing the current president in the last election and/or leaving the Republican Party.

I guess it goes both ways. Many of my democratic friends have become libertarian or republican in the last year. They don't recognize their party anymore. I'm libertarian so have no skin in the game. Also, anyone who believes CNN to be a reputable non biased news source (I see some shade on Fox here) is delusional. Neither is better than the other IMO. Really, there's not a news source on television I would say is reputable. Their only goal seems to be to polarize the country, not deliver factual news.

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 3
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, whitestavern said:

I guess it goes both ways. Many of my democratic friends have become libertarian or republican in the last year. They don't recognize their party anymore. I'm libertarian so have no skin in the game. Also, anyone who believes CNN to be a reputable non biased news source (I see some shade on Fox here) is delusional. Neither is better than the other IMO. Really, there's not a news source on television I would say is reputable. Their only goal seems to be to polarize the country, not deliver factual news.

I know a lot of 'politically homeless' leftists. It's definitely not a one-sided thing. 

  • Like 3
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I guess it goes both ways. Many of my democratic friends have become libertarian or republican in the last year. They don't recognize their party anymore. I'm libertarian so have no skin in the game. Also, anyone who believes CNN to be a reputable non biased news source (I see some shade on Fox here) is delusional. Neither is better than the other IMO. Really, there's not a news source on television I would say is reputable. Their only goal seems to be to polarize the country, not deliver factual news.

I don’t think lots of people think CNN is unbiased, though. You can think Fox is awful and still think CNN is too. A couple of the shows on Fox are so biased I can hardly bear to be in a room with it on. But I have also turned off CNN while saying, “Such bologney!”

  • Like 9
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Muttichen1 said:

If they are vaccinated, they are protected against serious illness. There always will be people who are medically fragile and we'll do what we can to protect them. I'm not convinced in this case that me getting a vaccine is helpful. I will stay home if sick, etc.

Again, I know we disagrees. I just wanted to give a perspective from the other side.

Some cannot be vaccinated for health reasons and it is known that the vaccine is less effective for some others. And you may not know you have covid.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Katy said:

That’s likely a spin off question, but I don’t think there is a way unless as a culture we start making fun of people addicted to rage media. 

And also people start holding leaders in their own party accountable for serious lies, rather than cheering as those leaders standing up and telling the truth are gleefully put in their place.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Frances said:

Not even anyone who lost their sense of taste and smell? While my state has done a pretty good job through this whole thing, all of the people I know who got sick described it as being the sickest or almost the sickest they’ve ever been. And all were a bit freaked out by losing their sense of taste and smell and many by being so out of breath. I know two healthy 30 somethings who struggled with long covid for close to a year. Now granted maybe I don’t anyone who would describe it as only a cold because testing was really bad in my state for a long time.

My two nieces and a bf of one got it, all mild. Several people I work with, all a few years older than me, described it like a cold. They were well enough to work from home while quarantining. A few friends and a neighbor my age and my uncle in his early 80s were the same. I believe most of them lost their sense of taste and smell, but I don't consider that very sick. They are all fine now, thankfully. I don't disagree that there have been horrible outcomes (death, hospitalization, long-term Covid), I just don't know anyone who had that experience. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, whitestavern said:

I guess it goes both ways. Many of my democratic friends have become libertarian or republican in the last year. They don't recognize their party anymore. I'm libertarian so have no skin in the game. Also, anyone who believes CNN to be a reputable non biased news source (I see some shade on Fox here) is delusional. Neither is better than the other IMO. Really, there's not a news source on television I would say is reputable. Their only goal seems to be to polarize the country, not deliver factual news.

I’ve never ever watch any news. We’ve had the discussion on this board before and I don’t believe anyone putting down Fox News suggested CNN as a viable alternative. Not that I choose to watch any of them, but I do think there are relatively centrist mainstream TV news choices if that is the medium one prefers. And neither Fox nor CNN are it.

As I’m a moderate, I definitely don’t agree with everything either party does. The number of lifelong Republican leaders coming out and endorsing Biden certainly was unprecedented though. It was refreshing to see people standing up for their principles and putting country before party. Even though I most definitely don’t agree with everything our current president does, it is a relief to have a mature adult in charge who truly seems to care about our country and is not a direct threat to our democratic norms and institutions.

Edited by Frances
  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SKL said:

Quill wanted input about different views, but people expressing different views are being attacked.  Not sure what is the point of piling onto the one person who dared to try to explain a different view.

I'm not going to pile on a particular person, but I can say in general that I think this issue is just particularly charged and hard to respond to in a detached manner, because the covid-minimizing, anti-vax sentiment that has been pushed hard by one  group is responsible at this point for us heading into this new wave at a time when we could be done with any more waves. I thought my kids were going to be able to have a normal fall, and they could have if people who could get vaccinated would (and if in the very least they would all mask and not have parties and such). But now we're headed back into another surge and we're at risk of this driving yet a new variant, which may eventually evade the vaccine, and then we'll all be seriously at risk again. It's hard not to have a strong reaction to that and feel upset. It's kind of how one might feel living in wildfire country and having your neighbors sitting out in their dry grass smoking every night. I may have my personal fire extiguisher all charged up and ready to go, but that doesn't mean they're not still putting us all at grave risk.

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

I haven't read the whole thread, so perhaps it has already be discussed. But can someone please explain to me why more conservative people are less likely to get the vaccine in the USA. What does being conservative have to do with vaccines?  Here in NZ, it is not political -- getting vaccinated has nothing to do with politics. We definitely have an antivax crowd, but in my experience, they are either hippies or part of the Brethren - so on completely opposite ends of the spectrum of politics.

Others have explained it at this point, but I agree it's so strange. It didn't used to be associated with conservativism here like it suddenly has become.

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Public health recognises social determinants like education level. But it can't be left there. The less educated deserve respectful health education, targeted at their needs, also. 

If the correlation is strong, there's a reason for it, and I'd suggest that it's a public health responsibility to respond to it. If rates are persistently low in any particular cohort, that's not just an individual problem, nor is the individual solely to blame. 

This is totally true, but at the same time, I'm seeing public health trying every which way to find a way to reach people, and somehow it's just being too hard to overcome. The recent new strategy of going door to door to offer people vaccine information and the opportunity to get vaccinated has backfired by the right making it into a political thing and comparing them to the gestapo.

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

Well, that is why I am so confused. Didn't Trump push really hard to get the vaccine made in record time?  Why in the world would he and his party not want to take credit for that and push for all Republicans to take advantage of the Republican vaccine?

I agree that is so strange. I actually think Trump could have won re-election had he handled this entire thing differently from the very start, but it's been a mess.

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Trump was never anti-vax.  Hate him all you want, but he deserves a huge amount of credit for making the vaxes available ridiculously fast.  I remember the days when the libs were the anti-vax group because the vax was a Trump thing.  It's interesting how history gets re-written.

That's disingenuous. That's not how it happened. There was never a democrat anti-vax message. There was a time shortly before the election when Trump wanted to speed up approval before the end of the trial timeline, before the results were done. He wanted the vaccine to be released before the election. Scientists were widely against rushing the timeline, and they didn't. It's the same reason that the kid's vaccine isn't out yet. They have to wait to finish the work and can't just rush it through for political or other motivations. They are doing it properly, as they did then.

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Not anymore. Vaccines are readily available and accessible now to anybody who wants them.

I think it's still an issue for some people who can't take time from work or afford to be out with symptoms from vaccine side effects.

2 hours ago, SKL said:

And the democrats also downplayed Covid early on, accusing conservatives of being racist for thinking maybe we shouldn't import Covid too eagerly.  "Come to Chinatown and enjoy the New Year's parade" was the Democrat message.

That wasn't the Democrat message, that's disingenuous again. In February 2020, before things got serious in the US and before anything had closed, Nancy Pelosi made a comment about people continuing to visit China Town, because the Asian hate stuff had started already and Chinese businesses were being specifically shunned. She didn't invite anyone to a parade, that was a false Tweet Trump made (hello, holding rallies in the middle of a pandemic once we KNEW what was going on?). A statement made by one democrat in February 2020 can hardly be honestly held up as Democrats downplaying Covid.  https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/

 

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

One thing that was done here was the Māori and Pacifica were vaccinated first because they have such terrible health outcomes.  So the tribes and churches have been huge in getting their populations to accept the vaccine. 

That has been true with Native Americans as well. In fact, they have the highest vaccination rate: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/native-americans-highest-covid-vaccination-rate-us/

1 hour ago, whitestavern said:

I do wish we had more information - scratch that, I wish TPTB would share more information about who is really high risk, how/where most people are getting it, percentage with comorbidities, etc. I do a ton of research and feel pretty comfortable with my risk level, but it shouldn't be so hard to find the information. They were sharing more in the beginning of all this. My personal thought is they're afraid if they share, less people will get vaccinated. I am thankful that the UK and other countries are doing so much research and sharing so much information. 

I don't gather than there is information we have that just isn't being shared. I think we're not gathering all the information I wish we had, but a lot of the other things have been studied and I've seen continued reporting on comorbidities, but I agree more information would always be better. I think a lot of it is likely resources. They can't do everything, and the whole test and trace thing has largely gone out the window, unfortunately, so we lose the ability to have the vast amount of helpful research data that comes from places that do that. A lot of the early info on comorbidities came out of China.

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Like, why would *any* political party think the smartest route is to make it harder for people to vote? I mean, there’s got to be some would-be Trump voters who would be able to vote by mail in or Dropbox but not by standing around at a poll site. (Like a whole bunch of elderly folks, for instance.) 

I agree it seems like a bad idea to make it harder for anyone, much less elderly folks to vote, but they have the numbers to show that making it harder to vote hurts Democrats, because it's not the elderly that are most impacted by that overall. It's people who can't take time off work and/or stand in long lines because their neighborhoods have so few polling places and those are disproportionately people of color.

1 hour ago, whitestavern said:

Also, anyone who believes CNN to be a reputable non biased news source (I see some shade on Fox here) is delusional.

As I see now others have already said, I don't think many people here say this. We've had this conversation before, and people are in pretty wide agreement that CNN is not where to go for non biased news.

  • Like 18
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess if you've reached peak vaccine uptake, then you have, and maybe send the surplus elsewhere ? 

I still think failures of public health are failures of public health, and not individual failures. There are clearly systemic issues at play if you can't get the majority of any population vaccinated. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Right but they didn’t actually know they were going to do that stolen election B.S., right? Trump was still, apparently, right to think it was *possible* he might (legitimately) win. I guess I just don’t see why the us v. them tact to take would be, “*They* are fine with mail-in ballots and drop boxes and early voting, so *we* have to be against doing those things.” Like, why would *any* political party think the smartest route is to make it harder for people to vote? I mean, there’s got to be some would-be Trump voters who would be able to vote by mail in or Dropbox but not by standing around at a poll site. (Like a whole bunch of elderly folks, for instance.) 

No he was complaining about threats of election fraud for months before the election.  He knew he would lose and he was looking for a fundraiser.  Hundreds of millions of dollars raised to spend any way he wants.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

No he was complaining about threats of election fraud for months before the election.  He knew he would lose and he was looking for a fundraiser.  Hundreds of millions of dollars raised to spend any way he wants.

I agree that he spread the fraud lie for months and months before the election but I do not think he thought it was possible he could actually lose. I think, in his personality-disordered way, he simply did not think one possible outcome is himself losing legitimately. I think he thought that, in the first place, millions of people are enthralled with him, and in the second place, he believed his Mafia-style “loyalty” would be on his side, for instance, his SCOTUS picks would put him in there if nothing else. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...