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The “vaccination divide” in the US


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30 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

The reason I was given today was the 48,000 people have died FROM the vaccine in the US (not just died after getting a vaccine...but from the vaccine) and that the government is hiding that fact.

Now, I do realize that there might be a very rare case of someone dying from the vaccine.   There are also cases of people dying after the vaccine, but my friend that is a doctor said that she had patients on hospice that got the vaccine so that they could see their family, even though they knew that they themselves would die in 2-6 weeks from an unrelated illness.

Any research to debunk the 48,000 people dying from the vaccine?  That someone totally steeped in the this is an experimental thing camp.

I think you could start by explaining how the VAERS database works, and that it is completely unverified and anyone can enter a report. There are reports of a two-year-old dying by suicide the day after getting the Covid vaccine in there (sick  that someone entered that), as well as someone dying due to being hit by lightning after the Covid vaccine. And there are obviously a lot like the case described above, where a very elderly person dies in the weeks following the vaccine, but not at a rate any higher than would be expected without the vaccine. If someone still believes the 48,000 number after understanding where the VAERS data comes from, and trusts that over verified study data that shows an incredibly low rate of fatal events attributed to the vaccine, to the point that they didn’t even turn up until millions of people had been vaccinated, then I don’t think they actually care to know what’s true, and you’re probably not going to be able to get them to know they’ve been duped. 

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2 minutes ago, TCB said:


I’m going to do what I know is right myself, show up to work and work flat out looking after everyone I can, and accept what happens.

On a lighter note, as a stress relieving measure at work, they are going to have a service dog there that you can go and pet, if you actually get a spare minute to do so. Nice thought though

I’m so sorry. If I’m as frustrated as I am, just watching from the outside, I just can’t imagine how it is for you and your colleagues. I’m sorry. I just hope this ends soon.

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4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

IMG_2224.jpeg.b440bc2e2f89334b162f69bb5c263ea7.jpeg

😂

Except I have had people comment on how paranoid I must be to own a fire extinguisher. I have one of those little ones right outside the garage door into my kitchen so everyone sees it when they come in. And more than one person has laughed about it. 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

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1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

😂

Except I have had people comment on how paranoid I must be to own a fire extinguisher. I have one of those little ones right outside the garage door into my kitchen so everyone sees it when they come in. And more than one person has laughed about it. 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I’m not a very organized home owner and even I have a small kitchen fire extinguisher. I thought it was just par for the safety course.

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6 minutes ago, TCB said:

I’m not a very organized home owner and even I have a small kitchen fire extinguisher. I thought it was just par for the safety course.

No lie - I have only ever met one other person who had one in their house.  And she’s now one of my best friends. Because people like us gotta stick together. LOL

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17 minutes ago, TCB said:

I’m not a very organized home owner and even I have a small kitchen fire extinguisher. I thought it was just par for the safety course.

I think our homeowners insurance requires it, so I just assumed everyone's did...I have one under the kitchen sink.

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36 minutes ago, TCB said:

someone they know, who has 2 family members that died from the vaccine

I probably shouldn't post this--it might be the final straw for you. But on another message board today someone is posting that she knows a baby who died because the mother got vaccinated, and the vaccine somehow tainted the mother's milk. Or something. She claims an autopsy was done and is implying--but not outright saying--that the coroner ruled that the vaccine was the cause of the baby's death. No source was cited, of course. Although one would think a death like that, complete with autopsy report, would have at least merited a story by a local newspaper or TV station, wouldn't you? Hmmm . . .

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7 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

 

When I think of vaccine refusers I'm often reminded of my SIL. When we first told her that DH had been diagnosed with cancer her immediate response was "But I didn't think that happened to our family."

Seriously.

And I don't think that type of thinking is particularly unusual. There's a slew of people out there who think bad things just don't or won't happen to them. Some people--and we've seen it repeatedly posted on this very forum--think if they just eat right and/or exercise and/or go to church every time the doors are open, or do/don't do whatever other magical things they've invented then "it" won't happen to them (Covid, cancer, diabetes, dementia, insert any "it" you can think of). Other people seem to think they're just that special and that they live a charmed life, period.

It's an odd perspective from my people, because they are both fat and have health issues as a result. But they kind of like their health issues, because it makes them "special". 

They're "special", alright...

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1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

😂

Except I have had people comment on how paranoid I must be to own a fire extinguisher. I have one of those little ones right outside the garage door into my kitchen so everyone sees it when they come in. And more than one person has laughed about it. 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

That’s so weird! (I mean that people think it’s strange, not that you have one 😂) I have one in my kitchen under the sink and one in our upstairs hall closet. We had to use our kitchen one once (for an outdoor fire), and after that I got some of the easy clean up aerosol ones I read about here. Would not be fun to clean up after the foam one inside, but I still keep that one as well as backup to the cleaner one. 

25 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I probably shouldn't post this--it might be the final straw for you. But on another message board today someone is posting that she knows a baby who died because the mother got vaccinated, and the vaccine somehow tainted the mother's milk. Or something. She claims an autopsy was done and is implying--but not outright saying--that the coroner ruled that the vaccine was the cause of the baby's death. No source was cited, of course. Although one would think a death like that, complete with autopsy report, would have at least merited a story by a local newspaper or TV station, wouldn't you? Hmmm . . .

I’m thinking that people so inclined will read the story posted here, and then they’ll be the ones telling their friends that they know a baby who….  I think that’s how these kind of things tend to spread. (Nevermind milk is easy to test and researchers have now done so, and there is no trace of vaccine mRNA in breast milk at all.)

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7 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

I’m thinking that people so inclined will read the story posted here, and then they’ll be the ones telling their friends that they know a baby who….  I think that’s how these kind of things tend to spread. (Nevermind milk is easy to test and researchers have now done so, and there is no trace of vaccine mRNA in breast milk at all.)

Possibly. Probably. But I'm over tiptoeing around the stupid folks, just as I'm over being able to care much about what happens to the willfully unvaccinated. There comes a point where the sane people have to stop being held responsible for everything the nutters do or might do. And I've reached that point. As they say, I have no fs left to give.

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11 minutes ago, KSera said:

That’s so weird! (I mean that people think it’s strange, not that you have one 😂) I have one in my kitchen under the sink and one in our upstairs hall closet. We had to use our kitchen one once (for an outdoor fire), and after that I got some of the easy clean up aerosol ones I read about here. Would not be fun to clean up after the foam one inside, but I still keep that one as well as backup to the cleaner one. 

Say what now? What easier to clean up kind?!

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1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

😂

Except I have had people comment on how paranoid I must be to own a fire extinguisher. I have one of those little ones right outside the garage door into my kitchen so everyone sees it when they come in. And more than one person has laughed about it. 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Not proud of it, but I just muttered some very bad words. 

People make fun of fire extinguishers? Are those just a scam from "big fire" and no one actually has house fires in the real world? Or their house gets destroyed, "with fire" but not "of fire"??

I swear...it is the stupid that will kill me, not the virus. 

(I have two fire extinguishers - one in kitchen, one by fireplace in living room. We also get made fun of for fire safety but that's on fourth of July when we bring it outside, plus put down a fireproof tile to light stuff rather than scorch the street, and have the hose handy)

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You know, if a person can't accept that fire will burn you, I can't imagine how you explain that a virus can kill you. 

Like, if you are the type to touch the hot stove just cause...I got nothing. 

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I did not read the whole thread but this only this last page.  We have a fire extinguisher in our entry way closet.  We were married 2 or 3 days when on our honeymoon we had a fire in our room and all was lost.  We were in the game room when that happened and came back to a townhouse/cabin up in flames!  Needless to say we lost everything but our car and the clothes on our backs!  As a result we were given an advance of insurance money and we went to K-Mart to buy a few things to tide us over.  Brings back a smile now to say we bought during the "blue light special" I think it was called. 

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We have fire extinguishers from our foster care days. And Dh carries one in his car at all times. We've had two cats erupt into flamed over the years. He started carrying one after the 2nd. 😂

Edited by AbcdeDooDah
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3 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

No lie - I have only ever met one other person who had one in their house.  And she’s now one of my best friends. Because people like us gotta stick together. LOL

I was forced to buy a fire extinguisher for my adoption home study 15 years ago.  I have never used it, and never hope to.  😛

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3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Well, the first thing to do is to ask for their source/data on those 48,000. 

I think 48,000 is probably an exaggeration, but it might help if people stopped pretending that vaccine injury (Covid and other) is a myth.  When neither side is being objective, it doesn't help educate the educable.

When I see the judgment here about people not believing Covid is going to kill them, it looks pretty much exactly the same as the judgment here about people believing that vax injuries exist.

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32 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

We have fire extinguishers from our foster care days. And Dh carries one in his car at all times. We've had two cats erupt into flamed over the years. He started carrying one after the 2nd. 😂

*blink*

I think that’s a typo . . .

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28 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think 48,000 is probably an exaggeration, but it might help if people stopped pretending that vaccine injury (Covid and other) is a myth.  When neither side is being objective, it doesn't help educate the educable.

When I see the judgment here about people not believing Covid is going to kill them, it looks pretty much exactly the same as the judgment here about people believing that vax injuries exist.

As there are regular boardies who have reported issues (not deaths) with the covid vaccine, I don’t anyone here thinks it never happens. Plus, I don’t think anyone would dispute the verified blood clot deaths that have occurred. But vaccine deaths and injuries are not at all the same.

And what’s wrong with asking for a source for the claim of 48,000 deaths from covid vaccines? It’s pretty much understood on this board that sources are expected for claims.

Edited by Frances
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24 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think 48,000 is probably an exaggeration, but it might help if people stopped pretending that vaccine injury (Covid and other) is a myth.  When neither side is being objective, it doesn't help educate the educable.

When I see the judgment here about people not believing Covid is going to kill them, it looks pretty much exactly the same as the judgment here about people believing that vax injuries exist.

I haven’t seen anyone who doesn’t think that serious and very rarely, fatal vaccine reactions happen. I keep seeing these straw man arguments accusing people of believing things or saying things that nobody has said they believe. If someone ever says they don’t believe that ever happens, they are clearly wrong. That doesn’t make the people claiming 48,000 vaccine deaths (and babies dying from breastmilk and vaccines shedding and causing infertility to others, etc., etc.) right, though.

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5 minutes ago, KSera said:

I haven’t seen anyone who doesn’t think that serious and very rarely, fatal vaccine reactions happen. I keep seeing these straw man arguments accusing people of believing things or saying things that nobody has said they believe. If someone ever says they don’t believe that ever happens, they are clearly wrong. That doesn’t make the people claiming 48,000 vaccine deaths (and babies dying from breastmilk and vaccines shedding and causing infertility to others, etc., etc.) right, though.

Yes. And the constant attempts at false equivalencies are getting very, very old. 

Edited by Frances
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4 hours ago, Ottakee said:

The reason I was given today was the 48,000 people have died FROM the vaccine in the US (not just died after getting a vaccine...but from the vaccine) and that the government is hiding that fact.

Now, I do realize that there might be a very rare case of someone dying from the vaccine.   There are also cases of people dying after the vaccine, but my friend that is a doctor said that she had patients on hospice that got the vaccine so that they could see their family, even though they knew that they themselves would die in 2-6 weeks from an unrelated illness.

Any research to debunk the 48,000 people dying from the vaccine?  That someone totally steeped in the this is an experimental thing camp.

Maybe this article would be helpful?

https://covid-101.org/science/how-many-people-have-died-from-the-vaccine-in-the-u-s/

It states that VAERS has received 6,207 reports of death after the vaccine.  Out of 187.2 million people.

I know someone who refuses to get the vaccine because she is afraid of blood clots.  I've tried talking to her about the actual risk of death from the vaccine vs. covid -- especially since the AstraZeneca vaccine isn't even available here -- but she won't listen. 😞

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11 minutes ago, Junie said:

It states that VAERS has received 6,207 reports of death after the vaccine.  Out of 187.2 million people.

You just reminded me of some thing I read way back that was trying to argue that 48,000 deaths number (I think it was some thing that was actually posted by a board member here who believes in that), and part of it is that they take the number that have been reported in VAERS, even though that number is a gross inflation, and then they multiply it many fold over based on the idea that most vaccine reactions don’t get reported. Nevermind that this current Covid vaccination situation is an entirely different kettle of fish as far as how many people have been vaccinated, how much data is being collected, and the way people are misusing VAERS. 

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I actually have a question I’ve been wondering for quite a while but seems related to this topic: what is the reason for there being a significant subset of people who have been vaccinated themselves, yet they continue to encourage and distribute false vaccine information as if to discourage others from being vaccinated, despite the fact they chose to do it for themselves and often their families. Anyone have insight into that phenomenon? It appears surprisingly common.

 

Maybe it’s related to evolutionary behaviors that cause some animals to improve their survival odds over that of others?? 

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4 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

No lie - I have only ever met one other person who had one in their house.  And she’s now one of my best friends. Because people like us gotta stick together. LOL

We have one. My parents bought it for us when we bought our first house. My dad, who is big on puns, called it a "house-cooling" gift 🙂

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3 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

We have several fire extinguishers, but this is reminding me that I need to check to make sure they're all still charged. They're all getting old.

Yeah, we have one, but it's been gathering dust in a corner for, oh, decades... 😬

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4 minutes ago, KSera said:

I actually have a question I’ve been wondering for quite a while but seems related to this topic: what is the reason for there being a significant subset of people who have been vaccinated themselves, yet they continue to encourage and distribute false vaccine information as if to discourage others from being vaccinated, despite the fact they chose to do it for themselves and often their families. Anyone have insight into that phenomenon? It appears surprisingly common.

 

Maybe it’s related to evolutionary behaviors that cause some animals to improve their survival odds over that of others?? 

I think some of this is contrarianism. There are people who want to believe that the majority opinion isn't right so they go out of their way to believe the opposite even if they follow mainstream behavior like getting vaxxed. 

You can see this phenomenon amongst certain types of commentators. I think there's a relationship to hate reads. Being contrary gets more clicks. 

I think it serves the purpose of making someone feel smarter than everyone else because they don't go along with everyone else. 

It's a strange phenomenon. It generally leads to continue pushing back past the point of making any sense. It also leads to championing the opinions of other non-mainstream people. Plus a persecution complex. 

 

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32 minutes ago, KSera said:

I actually have a question I’ve been wondering for quite a while but seems related to this topic: what is the reason for there being a significant subset of people who have been vaccinated themselves, yet they continue to encourage and distribute false vaccine information as if to discourage others from being vaccinated, despite the fact they chose to do it for themselves and often their families. Anyone have insight into that phenomenon? It appears surprisingly common.

 

Maybe it’s related to evolutionary behaviors that cause some animals to improve their survival odds over that of others?? 

If they're doing it online, it's for clicks. Nothing deeper. 

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5 hours ago, MrsMommy said:

I think our homeowners insurance requires it, so I just assumed everyone's did...I have one under the kitchen sink.

Ours does too.  Or at least asks about it.

3 hours ago, sheryl said:

 As a result we were given an advance of insurance money and we went to K-Mart to buy a few things to tide us over.  Brings back a smile now to say we bought during the "blue light special" I think it was called. 

Yep, blue light specials.  My first job (other than babysitting), when I was 16 was for Kmart and I used to do the blue light special announcements.  "Attention Kmart Shoppers, if you look up and around, you'll see that flashing blue light in our <<whatever department>> where we are having a special on our <<whatever whatever>> for just <<<whatever amount>>>.  That's right shoppers, just <<amount>> for our <<item>>, but this special is limited so come on over to the <<department>> before the flashing blue light ends".

 

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2 hours ago, KSera said:

I actually have a question I’ve been wondering for quite a while but seems related to this topic: what is the reason for there being a significant subset of people who have been vaccinated themselves, yet they continue to encourage and distribute false vaccine information as if to discourage others from being vaccinated, despite the fact they chose to do it for themselves and often their families. Anyone have insight into that phenomenon? It appears surprisingly common.

 

Maybe it’s related to evolutionary behaviors that cause some animals to improve their survival odds over that of others?? 

I haven't seen that.  I've seen people continue to support voluntary informed consent and oppose forced vaccinations (not that any have been forced so far, that I know of).  I've seen people support individuals' rights to decide based on their own individual health situation.

Can you give an example of someone posting false vaccine information that goes against the decision s/he made for his/her own family?  (Not people asking questions, but posting lies as facts.)

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7 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

😂

Except I have had people comment on how paranoid I must be to own a fire extinguisher. I have one of those little ones right outside the garage door into my kitchen so everyone sees it when they come in. And more than one person has laughed about it. 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Not paranoid, but I might be. We have four. One in the kitchen, one by each staircase, and one by the door. I heard it's good to have them available to spray your way out of the house in a fire, so that's our strategy, lol! 

IIRC, Aldi had them for a while, and the price was really good, which is why we have so many. 

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1 minute ago, SKL said:

Can you give an example of someone posting false vaccine information that goes against the decision s/he made for his/her own family?  (Not people asking questions, but posting lies as facts.)

I see it frequently with some people in the media and some politicians. I'm not going to go looking for examples right now, but will point it out and tag you next time I see it here. I can't do that with the politics ones, because against board rules. I can pull this one as a mild example from this page:

Quote

I think 48,000 is probably an exaggeration, but it might help if people stopped pretending that vaccine injury (Covid and other) is a myth.  When neither side is being objective, it doesn't help educate the educable.

When I see the judgment here about people not believing Covid is going to kill them, it looks pretty much exactly the same as the judgment here about people believing that vax injuries exist.

So, the 48,000 is clearly not just an exaggeration, but is outright false, so to say that it's just "probably an exaggeration" is a more subtle form of furthering misinformation. It's also totally false that anyone here is pretending that vaccine injury is a myth. Which made it humorous that you followed up about people putting words in other people's mouths 😂.

Beyond that, the italicized portion in your first quote above is actually key, and is frequently an even bigger issue "Not people asking questions, but posting lies as facts." The technique of "asking question" rather than outright posting lies is one of the most commonly used among those spreading conspiracy theories. The idea is to make people think it was their own idea. It also gives people plausible deniablity, "I was just asking [said innocently]" Among all the QAnon dispersers, this is the technique used over and over. So, to say you're not looking for where people were just asking questions, but where they are posting lies as facts, misses a good portion of the anti-vax stuff.

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7 hours ago, Ottakee said:

The reason I was given today was the 48,000 people have died FROM the vaccine in the US (not just died after getting a vaccine...but from the vaccine) and that the government is hiding that fact.

Now, I do realize that there might be a very rare case of someone dying from the vaccine.   There are also cases of people dying after the vaccine, but my friend that is a doctor said that she had patients on hospice that got the vaccine so that they could see their family, even though they knew that they themselves would die in 2-6 weeks from an unrelated illness.

Any research to debunk the 48,000 people dying from the vaccine?  That someone totally steeped in the this is an experimental thing camp.


afaik the 48K or whatever the number is in that range* is from someone under oath but under whistleblower identity protection in one of the court cases. It is based on access to CDC or similar records iirc. It will probably get dealt with during litigation process, a process which tends to grind slowly along 

I don’t think most of us can prove it true or false other than waiting for the court proceedings 

 

*I think K heard 45K as a rounded number 

Edited by Pen
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2 hours ago, KSera said:

I actually have a question I’ve been wondering for quite a while but seems related to this topic: what is the reason for there being a significant subset of people who have been vaccinated themselves, yet they continue to encourage and distribute false vaccine information as if to discourage others from being vaccinated, despite the fact they chose to do it for themselves and often their families. Anyone have insight into that phenomenon? It appears surprisingly common.

 

Maybe it’s related to evolutionary behaviors that cause some animals to improve their survival odds over that of others?? 

So I’m just going to stream of consciousness here since I don’t have a lot of time. 
 

I don’t consider myself in this camp however I do feel a sense of advocacy for those that are unvaccinated. We have been extremely fortunate that the disability caused by the vaccine can be mitigated by a change in lifestyle and possibly a change in location. I am fortunate that I chose to pay for short and long term disability during open enrollment. Life will look different for us but we won’t be totally wrecked by this. Others aren’t so lucky. We have thought long and hard and struggled with these decisions. Dh goes back and forth between getting the proposed booster and risking further complications and his duty as someone in healthcare. I was scared to get the vaccine and ultimately decided his situation is a one-off and not reflective of what will happen to us  I got the kids vaccinated as well. I shouldn’t have to defend myself by saying I’m vaccinated to prove I’m not an antivaxxer. These are decisions that many have thought long and hard about. Maybe I take it personally because I know how hard it is to get doctors to make it official. Most shrug and say there’s a lot we don’t know and it’s entirely possible. When I can see for myself a clear line pre and post covid and then pre and post vaccine.  So when the world is pressuring the unvaccinated and being all sorts of ugly I get a little defensive. I want people to get vaccinated because they want to. Not because they will lose their job. Not because they have been shamed into it by their coworkers. I want them to be confident in their decision because there is no recourse if they are less fortunate than us. Just as I wouldn’t want to get someone sick with covid to wouldn’t want to convince someone to get the vaccine and then they have a bad reaction. I know in my head most reactions are mild and go away. It’s easy to say we are just talking about ignorant white Trumpsters that would rather spit in your face than get the vaccine but there’s a whole other segment of the unvaccinated population that are minorities who have been hit hardest by this virus and are afraid of the government and mistrust doctors. How are they taking the blame campaign?  It’s really easy to think X should know better. There’s people that don’t have access or the education. There’s people who have health conditions. People who have had bad experiences with doctors. People who are afraid of needles.
I get emotional when talking about all of this. It’s why I avoided the covid threads as much as I could. I can see both sides quite clearly. I prefer to think out loud about all of this. I know I’m wrong in some cases. I just really don’t like the naming and shaming I see going on when I know what the potential ramifications of getting COVID and getting the vaccine could be. 

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2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I see it frequently with some people in the media and some politicians. I'm not going to go looking for examples right now, but will point it out and tag you next time I see it here. I can't do that with the politics ones, because against board rules. I can pull this one as a mild example from this page:

So, the 48,000 is clearly not just an exaggeration, but is outright false, so to say that it's just "probably an exaggeration" is a more subtle form of furthering misinformation. It's also totally false that anyone here is pretending that vaccine injury is a myth. Which made it humorous that you followed up about people putting words in other people's mouths 😂.

Beyond that, the italicized portion in your first quote above is actually key, and is frequently an even bigger issue "Not people asking questions, but posting lies as facts." The technique of "asking question" rather than outright posting lies is one of the most commonly used among those spreading conspiracy theories. The idea is to make people think it was their own idea. It also gives people plausible deniablity, "I was just asking [said innocently]" Among all the QAnon dispersers, this is the technique used over and over. So, to say you're not looking for where people were just asking questions, but where they are posting lies as facts, misses a good portion of the anti-vax stuff.

OK well I have seen some crazy stuff on facebook, mostly from Cuban refugees or their children, who greatly fear government control.  But I don't have any reason to believe they have vaccinated themselves or their kids.

As for your strange reading of what you quoted from me, what can I say ... I know exactly what my intention was.  Exaggeration is defined as "a statement that represents something as better or worse than it really is."  To say something is an exaggeration is NOT to say the stated number is the truth; that is about as twisted an interpretation as I've ever seen.  It is true that there have been some vax related deaths.  And when people point that out, as you demonstrate for us, the words "conspiracy theory" are used to attempt stifle that.  And admitting the fact that there have been some vax deaths gets me in the same classification as QAnon.

When people use this kind of technique to try to stop others from considering the possibility of vax injuries, it gets agreement from people who already agree with you, so yay.  But its effect on those honestly questioning?  Most likely they will not trust you on that subject.

I wish you could see how illogical it looks to insult the intelligent human tendency to ask questions.

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45 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

Wait, we're supposed to charge them? How?

Some fire extinguishers can be recharged and some just have to be thrown out when they lose their charge. Most of mine have gauges that show the charge level. I don’t know how to tell the difference in the ones that can be recharged or can’t. My brother is a long time volunteer fireman, EMT and fire safety instructor. He also has all sorts of HAZMAT certifications. So I ask him and do whatever he says. I’m sure someone at your local fire department could help you. 

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26 minutes ago, Pen said:


afaik the 48K or whatever the number is in that range* is from someone under oath but under whistleblower identity protection in one of the court cases. It is based on access to CDC or similar records iirc. It will probably get dealt with during litigation process, a process which tends to grind slowly along 

I don’t think most of us can prove it true or false other than waiting for the court proceedings 

 

*I think K heard 45K as a rounded number 

It comes from what I said before (that someone took the completely unverified VAERS reports and multiplied them), and is being widely spread on social media, which is why we're hearing about it now here. Here's a fact check: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/instagram-posts/no-evidence-45000-deaths-covid-19-vaccines/ It comes from the same group that brought us Stella Immanuel, the demon spawn lady.

19 minutes ago, SKL said:

OK well I have seen some crazy stuff on facebook, mostly from Cuban refugees or their children, who greatly fear government control.  But I don't have any reason to believe they have vaccinated themselves or their kids.

As for your strange reading of what you quoted from me, what can I say ... I know exactly what my intention was.  Exaggeration is defined as "a statement that represents something as better or worse than it really is."  To say something is an exaggeration is NOT to say the stated number is the truth; that is about as twisted an interpretation as I've ever seen.  It is true that there have been some vax related deaths.  And when people point that out, as you demonstrate for us, the words "conspiracy theory" are used to attempt stifle that.  And admitting the fact that there have been some vax deaths gets me in the same classification as QAnon.

When people use this kind of technique to try to stop others from considering the possibility of vax injuries, it gets agreement from people who already agree with you, so yay.  But its effect on those honestly questioning?  Most likely they will not trust you on that subject.

I wish you could see how illogical it looks to insult the intelligent human tendency to ask questions.

What the what?? Talk about putting words in people's mouths! I don't even know where to start. Where did I say that admitting there have been some vax deaths get you the same classification as QAnon?  I admit there have been vaccine deaths. I've said it already in this thread. I will again. THERE HAVE BEEN VACCINE DEATHS. There. See, I have said it loud and clear. Hopefully you won't continue with saying that people here won't admit there are vaccine deaths. I have responded to threads about them and expressed sorrow about them. I have acknowledged Australia in particular has been in a lousy decision making place with it when there was no covid, but AZ was their main vaccine choice. I did NOT say vaccine injury or death was a conspiracy theory. Ever, ever.

My point about exaggeration is that to say something is "probably" an exaggeration sounds to ME like it "might" be inflated a bit. Not that it's just flat out grossly untrue. If someone said I was 30 feet tall, and someone else who knows me said that was probably an exaggeration, you would expect that meant that I was likely at least very tall indeed, not that I was under 5 feet tall.

And as far as asking questions, I'm not talking about the general human tendency to ask questions. I'm talking about a very particular kind of question, specifically intended to lead people to certain ideas, and often to plant doubts. It's a totally different thing than normal questions for the purpose of learning. I find it disingenuous for anyone to pretend they don't know how that looks very different.

Edited by KSera
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1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Some fire extinguishers can be recharged and some just have to be thrown out when they lose their charge. Most of mine have gauges that show the charge level. I don’t know how to tell the difference in the ones that can be recharged or can’t. My brother is a long time volunteer fireman, EMT and fire safety instructor. He also has all sorts of HAZMAT certifications. So I ask him and do whatever he says. I’m sure someone at your local fire department could help you. 

Thanks! I will check ours ASAP. I guess just sticking it in a (handy) cupboard and not looking at it for 20 years was not the best idea 😞

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