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The “vaccination divide” in the US


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2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The majority of Americans support vaccine mandates, including 70% who favor vax requirements to board a plane.

 

Screen Shot 2021-07-31 at 8.18.33 AM.png

I'm skeptical about this being a representative survey.  I looked at the article and apparently it was an "online" survey, which necessarily skews the results.  It is especially questionable given that some of the groups have a higher ratio of "this should be mandated" than that demographic's actual vaccination rate.

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34 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm skeptical about this being a representative survey.  I looked at the article and apparently it was an "online" survey, which necessarily skews the results.  It is especially questionable given that some of the groups have a higher ratio of "this should be mandated" than that demographic's actual vaccination rate.

I don’t know enough about the study to judge it one way or another, but one explanation for what you noted is that I’m guessing people who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons would very much like everyone else who can to be vaccinated.

Edited by Frances
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Lol I type all of that out and this is in my inbox. It is still for high risk. 

 

FDA Authorizes REGEN-COV Monoclonal Antibody Therapy for Post-Exposure Prophylaxis (Prevention) for COVID-19

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today revised the emergency use authorization (EUA) for REGEN-COV (casirivimab and imdevimab, administered together) authorizing REGEN-COV for emergency use as post-exposure prophylaxis (prevention) for COVID-19 in adults and pediatric individuals (12 years of age and older weighing at least 40 kg) who are at high risk for progression to severe COVID-19, including hospitalization or death. REGEN-COV is not authorized for pre-exposure prophylaxis to prevent COVID-19 before being exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 virus -- only after exposure to the virus.

REGEN-COV also remains authorized for the treatment of mild-to-moderate COVID-19 in adults and pediatric patients (12 years of age and older weighing at least 40 kg) with positive results of direct SARS-CoV-2 viral testing, and who are at high risk for progression to severe COVID-19, including hospitalization or death.

Prophylaxis with REGEN-COV is not a substitute for vaccination against COVID-19. FDA has authorized three vaccines to prevent COVID-19 and serious clinical outcomes caused by COVID-19, including hospitalization and death. FDA urges you to get vaccinated, if you are eligible. Learn more about FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines.

REGEN-COV should only be used as post-exposure prophylaxis for individuals who are:

  • not fully vaccinated or who are not expected to mount an adequate immune response to complete SARS-CoV-2 vaccination (for example, people with immunocompromising conditions, including those taking immunosuppressive medications), and  
  • have been exposed to an individual infected with SARS-CoV-2 consistent with close contact criteria per Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), or
  • who are at high risk of exposure to an individual infected with SARS-CoV-2 because of occurrence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in other individuals in the same institutional setting (for example, nursing homes or prisons)

In general, people are considered fully vaccinated two weeks after their second dose in a two-dose series (the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines) or two weeks after a single-dose vaccine (the Janssen vaccine).

 

Edited by Plum
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On 7/30/2021 at 11:12 AM, Fritz said:

Not directly related to vaccines so much as free speech. Although I have seen the thought that if you are not vaccinated you should not be allowed to do xyz or go xyz or buy xyz on this board. Same idea.

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/get-ready-for-the-no-buy-list

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A lengthy article about those not vaccinated. They generally fall into one of two categories, “the wait and see” and “adamantly opposed”. As other have observed in their own states, the latter group is disproportionally white, rural, evangelical, and politically conservative. The former group is more diverse but leans young, urban, Democrat, Hispanic, and Black. The adamantly opposed group is larger and potentially makes up as much as 20% of the adult population.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/31/us/virus-unvaccinated-americans.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

I think this explains lots of the talking past each other when it comes to reasons why people aren’t vaccinated and if the messengers and message are to blame or not and what might work or not work to increase uptake.

Edited by Frances
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42 minutes ago, Plum said:

Most treatments, MAB and any others are for high risk categories. We found ourselves not qualifying for any of that. He wasn’t prescribed anything other than acetaminophen, which I had on hand and a cough med which he didn’t need or take. 

...

There needs to be better communication about what to do and what treatment options you have if you have covid

(and also re @Plum's post on Monoclonal Antibody Therapy, I just can't quote it for some reason)

I know that locally the officials are trying to balance:

  •  getting word out about vaccination options (types, locations, no appt, at home options)
  • the importance/effectiveness of still masking despite no mandate
  • the importance of testing for any symptoms (and how easy it is to do and where)
  • what to do if you get Covid (stay home, isolate, watch for these signs, who to contact, when to hospitalize, at home care recs)
  • to ask for monoclonal treatments if they are available and if they'd help you

The majority of their messaging has to be centered around preventing more spread primarily because that's going to do the most good for the community and what also is going to be relevant to most of the community.  They are already having problems getting people to listen in the first place so the secondary and tertiary messages tend to go unnoticed even when they are trying. 

Also, you don't want to give the impression that "Oh, if you get Covid, just ask for this treatment, you'll be fine" or "it'll cure you" or "it's no longer a big deal" or "follow these simple steps and you will recover" etc. This can backfire in so many ways; people may stop taking preventative measures, and also loss of public trust when the treatment doesn't magically fix things, among others. So letting people know of treatment options, but where it has a net positive effect, seems to be a hard line to walk for officials.

I agree they need to communicate as well as possible, but it's harder when it falls on [selectively] deaf ears.

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7 hours ago, Fritz said:

Not directly related to vaccines so much as free speech. Although I have seen the thought that if you are not vaccinated you should not be allowed to do xyz or go xyz or buy xyz on this board. Same idea.

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/get-ready-for-the-no-buy-list

It sure would be nice if those so concerned about free speech and censorship would at least demand their leaders tell the truth and not spread lies, misinformation, and conspiracy theories, especially about such important things as elections, attacks on our Capitol, and covid, because it plays well with their base. If you really care about free speech, why would you continue to vote for people at the highest level who continually abuse it, make a mockery of it,  exploit people with it, and use it only for their own gain? And blast members of their own party who actually stand up and do the right thing and tell the truth?

Edited to add that I’m very thankful the Republican legislators in my state did have the courage to pushback against the extremists leading the state Republican Party and issued a statement disagreeing with the state party’s lies about the “stolen election” and the Capitol riot, introduced and passed legislation disallowing elected representatives to hold office in the state party (so as to distance themselves from extremists and liars) and voted unanimously to expel one of their own from the legislature who made an advance plan with rioters and then let them into the locked down state Capitol. And of course lied about it.

Edited by Frances
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25 minutes ago, Fritz said:

Not directly related to vaccines so much as free speech. Although I have seen the thought that if you are not vaccinated you should not be allowed to do xyz or go xyz or buy xyz on this board. Same idea.

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/get-ready-for-the-no-buy-list

Really hard to have free speech if you are severely ill, chronically ill, or dead. 
 

Just get the vaccine. Then you can run your mouth as much as you want. 

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19 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

The majority of their messaging has to be centered around preventing more spread primarily because that's going to do the most good for the community and what also is going to be relevant to most of the community.  They are already having problems getting people to listen in the first place so the secondary and tertiary messages tend to go unnoticed even when they are trying. 

Also, you don't want to give the impression that "Oh, if you get Covid, just ask for this treatment, you'll be fine" or "it'll cure you" or "it's no longer a big deal" or "follow these simple steps and you will recover" etc. This can backfire in so many ways; people may stop taking preventative measures, and also loss of public trust when the treatment doesn't magically fix things, among others. So letting people know of treatment options, but where it has a net positive effect, seems to be a hard line to walk for officials.

I get what you are saying, but it sounds like we're not going to worry so much about ensuring people don't end up in the hospital (and there are vaccinated people in the hospital) through outpatient treatments....because optics. The hospitals are completely overwhelmed, exhausted and severely understaffed. Everything we can do to avoid that should be a priority, the vaccine shouldn't be the only way. 

Optics over science is just as bad as misinformation. Taking temps at the door was security theater. Stuff like that loses public trust as well.

I have never in my life thought a cold medicine would cure me. It is just supposed to suppress symptoms. 

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8 minutes ago, Plum said:

Taking temps at the door was security theater.

Why? Of course it would not have prevented entry by an asymptomatic person, but if you can catch people who are actually running a fever, why is that bad?
I see this as one of the many layers of protection. Does not replace masking, does not replace distancing, but adds one more layer to the swiss cheese the whole protection thing is. 

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11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Why? Of course it would not have prevented entry by an asymptomatic person, but if you can catch people who are actually running a fever, why is that bad?
I see this as one of the many layers of protection. Does not replace masking, does not replace distancing, but adds one more layer to the swiss cheese the whole protection thing is. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-temperature-scans-are-useless-security-theater-2020-8

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/paging-dr-hamblin-temperature-checks-coronavirus/615190/

 

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1 hour ago, Plum said:

Most treatments, MAB and any others are for high risk categories. We found ourselves not qualifying for any of that. He wasn’t prescribed anything other than acetaminophen, which I had on hand and a cough med which he didn’t need or take. 
 

He was in perfect health precovid and hadn’t seen his PCP since changing plans.
 

 

I had my own was in perfect health ... and then something happened and I was not many years ago. It’s a hard journey.  And often a lonely one. I am glad he has you. 
 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

 

The best OTC home remedy was baking soda water for acid reflux when he got his GI wave. The employee health nurse advised him to do that. Everything else was DIY OTC supplements. Now this was July 2020 and I would hope that things have changed.
 

 

my sense is that unless one seeks out a particular rare doctor doing differently or by unusual chance happen to live by a medical center with a team taking a different approach that it has not changed ...  though if anyone would have had more options I would have thought someone working at an admin type level in a hospital type job might

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

One of his coworkers was able to get MAB through the standalone ERs when they were doing them. Last I read, they don’t do that anymore because they weren’t as effective against the variants. 

 

that’s unfortunate 

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:


Long covid and the vaccine reaction are in his official records now.
 

I am not actually at all sure of anything clearly helping people for long term vaccine reaction problems 

the people I know with that were obviously mainstream in their approach to get vax in first place and seem to be using whatever mainstream offers for treatment for whatever has happened to them 

I have heard some suggestions about unorthodox methods for trying to treat post vaccine issues, but if I had gotten to point of being significantly improved like you describe for your dh — such as had been in pain almost constantly and then was not anymore, I would be very wary of trying them!

Also some may be for much earlier stage like when there’s active whatever in the system, which may or may not be the case months later. Later it may be a matter of dealing with actual damage (neurological or circulatory or whatever ) that remains.  Idk. 

 I am not aware of Ivm being likely to work for vaccine injury aspect of problems at all.

However it is part of some synergistic protocols being tried like I-Recover for long-haul. And I have found it useful for long haul Lyme CFS/ME  AI type issues...   (though like you describe with your dh being improved and not in pain 24/7 yet still not able to work, it is sort of like that IME - lessening of some symptoms, but not to ‘yay I’m all better/ well’ stage ) .  
 

I think possibly the Bruce Patterson team has a lot on dealing with long Covid — but I’m not sure if anything for if it was complicated by vaccine/vaccine reaction.  
 

If I happen to hear some thing on that double whammy combo I’ll try to let you know if you want. 

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

It’s only taken 6 months. We’ve figured out more about his symptoms and been able to mitigate his pain down to zero all on our own. It means he can’t work but at least he’s not in pain 24/7. 
 

im glad he’s not in pain 24/7 too! 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

We did look into IVM and FLCCC protocol because we are desperate. None of the meds they had him trying worked and the side effects had him sleeping 18 hours a day. IVM seemed tame comparatively. We asked the Director of Pharmacy about it. He said there were hospitals, including the one tied to the CDC here, using it on severe cases but they stopped when Remdesivir came along. There are still doctors that are prescribing it for outpatients. I’d like to see what the PRINCIPLE study turns up.


I prefer to deal with smaller studies done by people I consider moral, and without big $$$ interests involved.

When I looked at Principle it looked off in the way it was set up, I can’t recall details— not iirc as obvious as when toxic doses of some older medicines were being employed in some studies. 
 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

For now his doctor has him on another med that don’t have the side effects but also aren’t doing anything. And my troubleshooter Dh only wants to take one med at a time. 
 

which is good for being able to monitor effects, especially negative side effects

but possibly not helpful if good results require synergy between several substances / several approaches 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

According to this:

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/management/clinical-management/nonhospitalized-adults--therapeutic-management/

  • The Panel recommends against the use of antibacterial therapy (e.g., azithromycin, doxycycline) for outpatient treatment of COVID-19 in the absence of another indication (AIII).
  • Other agents have undergone or are currently undergoing investigation in the outpatient setting. For more information, please refer to the sections of the Guidelines that address:

Maybe with Delta having cold like symptoms more OTC cold medicines will help. His never went respiratory so Mucinex and others I had on hand weren’t used. None of us had any symptoms or even know if we were positive, though it’s hard to believe we weren’t. 
 

 

It is possible you weren’t.

I know families that had one person confirmed sick where everyone else stayed well even without having sick person isolated

or bigger families with 3 who got sick and 8 who stayed well .. 

others may have good innate immunity or old T cell immunity or memory B cell immunity in place from past infections, enough to stay well

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

There needs to be better communication about what to do and what treatment options you have if you have covid. We considered ourselves fairly knowledgeable at the time.
 

I agree. 
 

For myself and loved ones I downloaded some of the protocols in advance. I mean the alternative protocols, not conventional cdc / nih . I am not saying this to argue with persons on this forum, merely stating factually that I did that. 

 

I noticed too that when someone is actually sick some panic sets in for some (many) people and makes it hard to carefully look at and follow the protocols even if they are available , so that having a friend or relative with the information, but who would not be in a panic can be helpful too

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

He was in the covid logistics committee and created the hospitals surge plan.
 

that’s interesting!

But hospital surge plan is probably a lot different than researching anything to do with early home care, long Covid, or vaccine issues / options - especially perhaps “alternatives” type options

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

But testing positive puts people in panic mode.
 

just what I wrote I had noticed!

 

1 hour ago, Plum said:

The last thing anyone wants to do is search through all of the websites looking for what to do. That’s a recipe for finding bad information. 


yes.
 

And then too, what one human being considers “good” information, another person will consider “bad” information.  
 

😉Certainly what I consider “good” information the majority still participating  on Wtm consider “bad” information.   😉
 

It can help a lot to have time to go over things when not in a panic.  
 

I think you probably are not the only ones on WTM dealing with post vaccine issues, but I suspect that it has become too unfriendly a place for others who I think also are dealing with issues to post here.
 

You might look for if you can find forums that have more people dealing with similar problems- though unfortunately I think many if on typical places like fb have been purged.  Maybe your dh would get well enough to start such a forum. It seems there is a real need for that. 

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2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Why? Of course it would not have prevented entry by an asymptomatic person, but if you can catch people who are actually running a fever, why is that bad?
I see this as one of the many layers of protection. Does not replace masking, does not replace distancing, but adds one more layer to the swiss cheese the whole protection thing is. 

nm

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23 minutes ago, Plum said:

I get what you are saying, but it sounds like we're not going to worry so much about ensuring people don't end up in the hospital (and there are vaccinated people in the hospital) through outpatient treatments....because optics. The hospitals are completely overwhelmed, exhausted and severely understaffed. Everything we can do to avoid that should be a priority, the vaccine shouldn't be the only way. 

Optics over science is just as bad as misinformation. Taking temps at the door was security theater. Stuff like that loses public trust as well.

I have never in my life thought a cold medicine would cure me. It is just supposed to suppress symptoms. 

Taking temps at the door was something done very early in the pandemic.  It was "one thing" we could do when there wasn't much we could do at that time.  But it was never the best thing we could do.  The biggest thing we could do back then was masking when out but see how much pushback and even violence there was about that.  I have not had my temp taken in a number of months here.  But we are a high vaccinated area and so the population went for a much higher security thing - vaccines. 

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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

I think possibly the Bruce Patterson team has a lot on dealing with long Covid — but I’m not sure if anything for if it was complicated by vaccine/vaccine reaction.  

We've looked into Dr. Patterson as well after seeing him on Dr. Been. 

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2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Taking temps at the door was something done very early in the pandemic.  It was "one thing" we could do when there wasn't much we could do at that time.  ... I have not had my temp taken in a number of months here.  

Here they are only doing it in medical settings. My dentist still does. I appreciate it.

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1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Really hard to have free speech if you are severely ill, chronically ill, or dead. 
 

Just get the vaccine. Then you can run your mouth as much as you want. 

It must really be amazing to be so cock sure you know everyone's situation and what they should do regarding vaccine.

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this article was so upsetting....https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/us/coronavirus-florida-hospitals.html

But these days inside the Covid I.C.U., almost everything is worse.

The week before, Ms. Zacharski’s team had lost a 24-year-old mother whose entire family had contracted the coronavirus. The woman, like every other patient in the Covid I.C.U., had been unvaccinated.

and 

Jackson has also admitted some vaccinated people, but almost all have been transplant patients with compromised immune systems. During last week’s visit by a reporter and photographer from The New York Times, none were in the I.C.U.

 
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39 year old father of 5 texts "Oh my [expletive] God. This is terrible. I should have gotten the damn vaccine,” before dying of covid.

His fiancee said "We were just holding off and now to think that if we just had gotten the shot ... he could still be here. He is only 39. Our babies now don’t have a dad." 

I don't know how people sleep at night knowing their lies and disinformation are killing people and destroying families.

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/i-should-have-gotten-the-damn-vaccine-las-vegas-father-of-5-dies-after-contracting-covid-19-in-socal/

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4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

39 year old father of 5 texts "Oh my [expletive] God. This is terrible. I should have gotten the damn vaccine,” before dying of covid.

His fiancee said "We were just holding off and now to think that if we just had gotten the shot ... he could still be here. He is only 39. Our babies now don’t have a dad." 

I don't know how people sleep at night knowing their lies and disinformation are killing people and destroying families.

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/i-should-have-gotten-the-damn-vaccine-las-vegas-father-of-5-dies-after-contracting-covid-19-in-socal/

So many stories like that. It's just so terribly sad.

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I'm curious about the 'holding off' phrase from the article above - I've seen it before (in the US, not Australia where it is still hard to get a vaccine if you're under 40). What are they waiting for? Till they're older or till they feel more vulnerable or till they have some free time or till the vaccine is several years down the track? Or is it a phrase meaning ' we knew about it, we weren't against it, we just didn't get around to it cause it didn't seem urgent.'

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15 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I'm curious about the 'holding off' phrase from the article above - I've seen it before (in the US, not Australia where it is still hard to get a vaccine if you're under 40). What are they waiting for? Till they're older or till they feel more vulnerable or till they have some free time or till the vaccine is several years down the track? Or is it a phrase meaning ' we knew about it, we weren't against it, we just didn't get around to it cause it didn't seem urgent.'

Most people irl that I know who say this mean they don’t feel their personal risk is high enough to risk the “new vaccine” and that maybe a year or so from now they will get it after seeing there’s no side effects. 

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16 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Lord, have mercy.

Cause nothing short of a miracle is going to help that kind of ridiculousness. 

I know. Once again I honestly can’t tell the difference between a satire Onion piece and actual real news anymore. Bc that article totally reads like The Onion to me. 

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11 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I know. Once again I honestly can’t tell the difference between a satire Onion piece and actual real news anymore. Bc that article totally reads like The Onion to me. 

I read the article and thought maybe this is just human nature. Humans aren't very good at responding to unseen threats. We're just as oblivious to threats of climate change. 

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29 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I'm curious about the 'holding off' phrase from the article above - I've seen it before (in the US, not Australia where it is still hard to get a vaccine if you're under 40). What are they waiting for? Till they're older or till they feel more vulnerable or till they have some free time or till the vaccine is several years down the track? Or is it a phrase meaning ' we knew about it, we weren't against it, we just didn't get around to it cause it didn't seem urgent.'

For some it's because mRNA is a relatively new technology vaccine.  It's only been around about 10 years or so and wasn't successful until now.  So, some people are just waiting around for a few more years and FDA approval.  Currently, it's only approved for emergency use only. 

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3 minutes ago, desertflower said:

For some it's because mRNA is a relatively new technology vaccine.  It's only been around about 10 years or so and wasn't successful until now.  So, some people are just waiting around for a few more years and FDA approval.  Currently, it's only approved for emergency use only. 

And some wanted to wait and see how it did with variant(s). They want a more comprehensive injection that will last. And some say they’re not getting it if it becomes a yearly thing like a flu shot. 

 

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6 hours ago, regentrude said:

Why? Of course it would not have prevented entry by an asymptomatic person, but if you can catch people who are actually running a fever, why is that bad?
I see this as one of the many layers of protection. Does not replace masking, does not replace distancing, but adds one more layer to the swiss cheese the whole protection thing is. 

One of the early Covid patients in our hospital was a delivery driver who was identified because his temp was checked when he came to deliver something so he was tested and was positive.

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1 hour ago, bookbard said:

I'm curious about the 'holding off' phrase from the article above - I've seen it before (in the US, not Australia where it is still hard to get a vaccine if you're under 40). What are they waiting for? Till they're older or till they feel more vulnerable or till they have some free time or till the vaccine is several years down the track? Or is it a phrase meaning ' we knew about it, we weren't against it, we just didn't get around to it cause it didn't seem urgent.'

I was planning to wait until my teens could get it, and then go as a family and get it done together.  (This was before this Delta stuff.)  I figured that since we couldn't go around older people until my kids were vaccinated, and I work at home, there was no point in my getting the vax sooner.  (I also have a statistically low risk profile.)

My otherwise healthy brother almost died from double pneumonia some years ago.  Young people do unfortunately die of various illnesses, but it is very rare, even with Covid.  I can understand a person in his 30s not considering it urgent to get this vax.  Like me, he probably never knew anyone who had gotten very sick from Covid.

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38 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

ome wanted to wait and see how it did with variant(s). They want a more comprehensive injection that will last. And some say they’re not getting it if it becomes a yearly thing like a flu shot. 

 

But they could be dead before then. I mean, I was concerned back in say July 2020 when they were working on the vaccine. A billion doses down the track and over 4 million deaths - including young people and children? 

And that article, where they're in a packed club with people dancing and the guy's like, 'where are the sick people?' - uh, they're in the hospital, funnily enough. Seriously?

I think I feel disbelieving because it's just so hard to get the vaccine in Australia unless you're over 40 and live near a city. And they're handing it out with gifts in the USA, and people are turning it down. 

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1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

Most people irl that I know who say this mean they don’t feel their personal risk is high enough to risk the “new vaccine” and that maybe a year or so from now they will get it after seeing there’s no side effects. 

I am actually a person who is generally hesitant about novel vaccines. I took my kids to a pox party rather than have them get the pox vax... but that was a long known generally mild childhood illness that almost always gives lifelong immunity, but can be dangerous for adults, and I wasn't sure if vax immunity might wane and make them vulnerable when it was a more dangerous disease.  I held off on Gardasil.

I even said (before they'd come out with the vax) that I wouldn't want to be first in line to get it.  But HECK... by the time my turn came up, literally BILLIONS of people had gotten it before me!   Most other new vaxes take years to get the exposure this one did in just months.  And this isn’t a mild childhood illness or spread only by body fluids. By the time it was my turn, I was more than ready!!  With the sheer number of people that have taken these and the stats now out about their safety and efficacy,  I'm not clear what new information these people are waiting for! 

 

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3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

39 year old father of 5 texts "Oh my [expletive] God. This is terrible. I should have gotten the damn vaccine,” before dying of covid.

His fiancee said "We were just holding off and now to think that if we just had gotten the shot ... he could still be here. He is only 39. Our babies now don’t have a dad." 

I don't know how people sleep at night knowing their lies and disinformation are killing people and destroying families.

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/i-should-have-gotten-the-damn-vaccine-las-vegas-father-of-5-dies-after-contracting-covid-19-in-socal/

These stories are all just heartbreaking. I keep wondering about the bolded as well. I wonder if people consider how they will feel if they ever end up in that same scenario, or if they just feel sure that would never happen to them or anyone they know. But it’s happening to so very many right now. It’s so sad and awful. 

3 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-why-people-america-hardest-033021315.html
 

From the beautiful but not so great state of Misery.

😭

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Thanks for sharing. That was interesting. I was struck by how much more community-minded people seem to be than in the US. 

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3 hours ago, bookbard said:

I'm curious about the 'holding off' phrase from the article above - I've seen it before (in the US, not Australia where it is still hard to get a vaccine if you're under 40). What are they waiting for? Till they're older or till they feel more vulnerable or till they have some free time or till the vaccine is several years down the track? Or is it a phrase meaning ' we knew about it, we weren't against it, we just didn't get around to it cause it didn't seem urgent.'

The people I know who are declining the covid vaccine don't think they'll catch covid.  They think the whole pandemic is an over-reaction, and that only drama queens and weenies are getting the vaccine.

If they know someone that got covid, it was either an asymptomatic or very mild case.  Or, if they know someone with bad covid, they brush it aside by saying "Well, so-and-so was always kind of an idiot", and you get the impression they think they are too smart to catch covid.  My mom and her husband fall into this category.  They think only morons get covid. 🤷‍♀️

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5 hours ago, KSera said:

or if they just feel sure that would never happen to them or anyone they know

 

4 hours ago, MissLemon said:

The people I know who are declining the covid vaccine don't think they'll catch covid

When I think of vaccine refusers I'm often reminded of my SIL. When we first told her that DH had been diagnosed with cancer her immediate response was "But I didn't think that happened to our family."

Seriously.

And I don't think that type of thinking is particularly unusual. There's a slew of people out there who think bad things just don't or won't happen to them. Some people--and we've seen it repeatedly posted on this very forum--think if they just eat right and/or exercise and/or go to church every time the doors are open, or do/don't do whatever other magical things they've invented then "it" won't happen to them (Covid, cancer, diabetes, dementia, insert any "it" you can think of). Other people seem to think they're just that special and that they live a charmed life, period.

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6 hours ago, MissLemon said:

The people I know who are declining the covid vaccine don't think they'll catch covid.  They think the whole pandemic is an over-reaction, and that only drama queens and weenies are getting the vaccine.

If they know someone that got covid, it was either an asymptomatic or very mild case.  Or, if they know someone with bad covid, they brush it aside by saying "Well, so-and-so was always kind of an idiot", and you get the impression they think they are too smart to catch covid.  My mom and her husband fall into this category.  They think only morons get covid. 🤷‍♀️

Or only fat people die of it. Or "They must've had some underlying conditions." if the speaker him/herself is not slim. The same sentiment was in the Missouri article just posted, a cook died of Covid and they said, "But we don't know what all was wrong with him."

 

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10 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I read the article and thought maybe this is just human nature. Humans aren't very good at responding to unseen threats. We're just as oblivious to threats of climate change. 

Agreed, but a vaccine is a simple step we can take to prevent a disaster. At least for me, knowing actual personal actions that will prevent climate change aren't as obvious (besides recycling, walking vs driving, etc). 

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11 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-why-people-america-hardest-033021315.html
 

From the beautiful but not so great state of Misery.

That is exactly the anti-vax people I know to a T. So, when I hear we need to have all this grace and patience I have ZERO. Because of the people I know not vaxed they are all like this. I know that not all un-vaxxed are arrogant, reckless, selfish idiots but I don't know these people. When I was in an auto parts store a few months back I seen first hand a customer heckling a worker for wearing a mask. People just aren't against vaxxing and virus mitigation measures for themselves they are against anyone doing them. 

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11 hours ago, desertflower said:

For some it's because mRNA is a relatively new technology vaccine.  It's only been around about 10 years or so and wasn't successful until now.  So, some people are just waiting around for a few more years and FDA approval.  Currently, it's only approved for emergency use only. 

IMG_2224.jpeg.b440bc2e2f89334b162f69bb5c263ea7.jpeg

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2 hours ago, whitestavern said:

That was a disappointing opinion piece. It would have been less disappointing if they made their case without also dropping pieces of vaccine misinformation throughout without correcting it and using statistics in a disingenuous way to make the vaccine seem ineffective. They also make it sound like having vaccine mandates in certain situations (such as universities) is a brand new thing and will never work, when it has never been a problem in the past, and I know many universities with Covid vaccine mandates for fall that seem so far to be successful In getting their campus community highly vaccinated.

Speaking of, I think what happens in universities will provide a lot of useful information for us this this Fall. We will have the opportunity to see what happens in super highly vaccinated communities (campuses that require vaccination or exemption) vs those with lower vaccination rates. If enough of them are gathering data, it could even give some idea just what the herd immunity threshold really is for this disease with current vaccines. I expect there should be some colleges starting in the next few weeks with mandates in place, so I’ll be watching how that goes. Would be especially interesting to see the difference when two schools are located in the same area, one with and one without a mandate. 

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2 hours ago, whitestavern said:

Interesting editorial. In the NY Times article I posted about the two different groups of people who are not vaccinated, the two things most likely to get the adamantly opposed group to vaccinate (based on polling) were free transportation and requiring them for flying. Maybe selective mandates is the key?

Edited by Frances
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1 hour ago, KSera said:

That was a disappointing opinion piece. It would have been less disappointing if they made their case without also dropping pieces of vaccine misinformation throughout without correcting it and using statistics in a disingenuous way to make the vaccine seem ineffective. They also make it sound like having vaccine mandates in certain situations (such as universities) is a brand new thing and will never work, when it has never been a problem in the past, and I know many universities with Covid vaccine mandates for fall that seem so far to be successful In getting their campus community highly vaccinated.

They also didn’t provide any background information about the authors of the editorial. As for the conclusion, haven’t we been there pretty much since the beginning of the pandemic? At least in my state, some have resisted every mitigation message since the very beginning.
 

Instead of “normalizing” the jab, it risks creating a permanent and hardened segment of our society, primed to oppose government efforts to deal with covid or other public health crises on the horizon.

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44 minutes ago, Frances said:

They also didn’t provide any background information about the authors of the editorial.

I've just been down an interesting rabbit trail learning about the authors. The first is a social scientist, the second a political scientist (both at universities). The second, Nicholas Tempio was pretty interesting to read. From what I've gleaned from his Twitter feed, he comes across as anti-vax, anti Bill Gates, anti Common Core (Common Core and education appear to be his focus areas, and he has written a book against Common Core standards). I agree with many of his tweets about education, particularly the value of play. I disagree with his clear negativity about vaccines and don't know what his specific beef with the Gates is (perhaps related to education?). Overall, I get a vibe that makes me think he may be a Libertarian, but haven't read enough to know that.

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The reason I was given today was the 48,000 people have died FROM the vaccine in the US (not just died after getting a vaccine...but from the vaccine) and that the government is hiding that fact.

Now, I do realize that there might be a very rare case of someone dying from the vaccine.   There are also cases of people dying after the vaccine, but my friend that is a doctor said that she had patients on hospice that got the vaccine so that they could see their family, even though they knew that they themselves would die in 2-6 weeks from an unrelated illness.

Any research to debunk the 48,000 people dying from the vaccine?  That someone totally steeped in the this is an experimental thing camp.

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5 hours ago, historically accurate said:

Or only fat people die of it. Or "They must've had some underlying conditions." if the speaker him/herself is not slim. The same sentiment was in the Missouri article just posted, a cook died of Covid and they said, "But we don't know what all was wrong with him."

 

I completely agree. Except we do know exactly what was wrong with him in the end - COVID. 

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15 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

The reason I was given today was the 48,000 people have died FROM the vaccine in the US (not just died after getting a vaccine...but from the vaccine) and that the government is hiding that fact.

Now, I do realize that there might be a very rare case of someone dying from the vaccine.   There are also cases of people dying after the vaccine, but my friend that is a doctor said that she had patients on hospice that got the vaccine so that they could see their family, even though they knew that they themselves would die in 2-6 weeks from an unrelated illness.

Any research to debunk the 48,000 people dying from the vaccine?  That someone totally steeped in the this is an experimental thing camp.

Well, the first thing to do is to ask for their source/data on those 48,000. 

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12 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, the first thing to do is to ask for their source/data on those 48,000. 

In my opinion they don’t seem to ever have a source other than VAERS and someone they know, who has 2 family members that died from the vaccine. Honestly I think I am on the cusp of throwing in the towel. I’ve heard so much rubbish spouted, that frankly doesn’t even make sense if you stop and think for a couple of minutes. 
I’m going to do what I know is right myself, show up to work and work flat out looking after everyone I can, and accept what happens.

On a lighter note, as a stress relieving measure at work, they are going to have a service dog there that you can go and pet, if you actually get a spare minute to do so. Nice thought though.

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