Do most (U.S. of) Americans care?

[KJB]

First, you post two articles which (admittedly I only skimmed) point out the birth rates of Europe are low.

 

Yep, I agree. In fact, I agreed above. My pro-USA agenda is served by the fact that our population remains vital and healthy unlike that of Europe. Not sure what you gain in this discussion by pointing out something I've agreed with?

 

Next, you mention that well manicured suburbs are bad-mouthed as much as ones decorated with trash.

 

Well, yeah. Suburbs in general just aren't as cute as the villages here. Even really nice suburbs don't compare, imo. Have you seen German villages? They really are that charming. I'd just rather live someplace clean and cute. That's literally all I've seen here (admittedly, I'm not referring to any larger cities which I'm sure yield their own share of poverty).

 

Conversely, I've lived all over the US. Really. And there just are places where people don't care. There are cars up on blocks and junkyard lawns. Sorry. It's true.

 

Last, you point out all Americans have criticisms of the US and that I have somehow painted American values with an over-broad brush.

 

I don't recall discussing American values. If you want to have that discussion you'll have to define what American values to which you are referring and I'm happy to discuss.

 

I am saying that Europe ain't that bad and that they aren't as culturally and technologically stagnant as was espoused by the original post to which I responded. Also, I find some things about European culture enviable.

 

My husband has been in the USAF for almost 20 years and has deployed to many a scary location to allow us to have this conversation. So, when I say I'm a patriot, I say that as someone who has put her money where her mouth is.

Edited December 12, 2008 by KJB

[Zelda]

You brought up European family values. I'm pointing out that they aren't quite as rosy and charming as you depict. Your anecdotal evidence aside.

 

When you say that Europeans do things one way and that Americans do things another, less desirable way you are indeed assigning a set of values to Americans. According to you we live in either cookie-cutter mini-mansions or trailers with cars on blocks in the yard while Europe has nothing but charming cottages festooned with loveliness. Pish. Posh.

 

When you say that Europeans do things differently than we do by caring for their families then you are assigning the reverse value to Americans.

 

But since you played your military wife trump card I guess I have to fold my hand now. Is there a wry face smiley?

[Zelda]

Zelda

 

My problem with your posts (on this subject) is that you see any positive comments about other countries as criticisms of America. Can't we agree that America is great, but other countries may have things we want to emulate here? Is it all or nothing? Can't we critique without being America-haters?

 

Margaret

PS the articles you link point to the other poster's statement that they are having less kids, not no kids. In fact, this is happening here in the US as well:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17571

 

"Yet without some immigration, the United States’ population would continue aging indefinitely because her birthrate is so low. "

 

These were not simply comments about other countries. They were comparisons that implied that Americans lack family values and, I don't know, decorating skills?

 

I'm not going to discuss the difference between hyperbolic sarcasm and being literal.

 

According to your article, the US birth rate drops to "suicidal French levels" if there is ZERO immigration. And the U.S. doesn't really have a problem with not enough immigration yet so I wouldn't sweat it.

[KJB]

"These were not simply comments about other countries. They were comparisons that implied that Americans lack family values and, I don't know, decorating skills?"

 

If this is the impression my posts are giving, then I am not communicating well. I do not believe Americans lack family values OR decorating skills. lol

 

I'd rather be an American any day of the week, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate a well-stenciled wall. :D

 

Anyway, I genuinely enjoy your posts, Zelda. I hope if you marry Stacy you won't get complacent and change. Never change, Zelda. :lol:

Edited December 12, 2008 by KJB

[Zelda]

"These were not simply comments about other countries. They were comparisons that implied that Americans lack family values and, I don't know, decorating skills?"

 

If this is the impression my posts are giving, then I am not communicating well. I do not believe Americans lack family values OR decorating skills. lol

 

I'd rather be an American any day of the week, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate a well-stenciled wall. :D

 

Anyway, I genuinely enjoy your posts, Zelda. I hope if you marry Stacy you won't get complacent and change. Never change, Zelda. :lol:

 

Okay. I guess I must have misinterpreted. Extreme jingoism is certainly not my thing. Neither do I think other cultures have little to offer. I do however, live in an area where attacks against American culture are the status quo and anti-American sentiment is high and it does tend to put your back up against the wall. :glare:

 

Thanks for the nice comments. I haven't heard from Stacy so I'm guessing she talked to the last person foolish enough to marry me and changed her mind. :001_smile:

 

I want to pinch your baby. I am a cute baby pincher.

[Peek a Boo]

LOL! at the abortion tag ;)

That issue took up, oh, what, 4 posts out of 107?

I guess that's all some people think about eh? :lol:

But it does underscore yet again how some people look at what a minority of people do and ascribe a sense of "the majority" to it. Like we had one person get trampled at a WalMart and that's now a typical situation. Back to the OP and my original post in this thread.

 

and Europe! yeah, charming villages are great. But i'd rather live here and have the freedom to homeschool. And have a picture of a charming village on my wall :D And avoid the soccer game tramplings. But the funny thing about freedom is that people have the right to be morons. and messy. or messy on the outside and helpful on the inside.

 

and I'm sure being able to care for your parents instead of a nursing home is great. For people that choose to do that. Knowing I would NOT have my mom in my home, i don't assume someone is horrible just cuz they won't take on a parent or two. Or those families might be part of our huge volunteer military and CAN't take on a parent. So i probably wouldn't equate that as "enlightened" but simply as "traditional."

 

European [ok, MOST] countries also don't handle immigration issue the same way we do --there was a whole thread about the differences there too. The families sharing houses here in the southwest are more likely to be illegal immigrants trying to save money.

 

I'm sure Europe ain't that bad, and for those that want to be more like Europe, i would absolutely encourage it. Just not at taxpayer expense or gvt mandate ;)

 

And I'd be careful about equating how a town LOOKS w/ what its citizens DO: there's a very active citizen locally that does wonders w/ the Outreach center, but doesn't give a flip about his own house. since this thread was originally about how one judges people based on stereotypes perpetuated by the media, i'll point out that just because something looks charming and simple doesn't mean the people are actually DOING anything constructive for the others around them. I wouldn't be surprised to find even those simple charming people involved, just as we have plenty of messy, unorganized, shopaholics dong a lot locally too.

 

 

I have PLENTY of rotten nasty stuff to say about America, esp politically. But just because something works somewhere else in the world doesn't necessarily mean I want to see it implemented HERE as a general rule.

People LEFT those cozy villages for a reason.

People LEFT those sweet simple countries because they COULDN"t get or do what they wanted or needed.

People are free to embrace whatever they want here. Even if it is shallow.

Or European :D

[Storm Bay]

I just found this thread doing a search on made in USA. Before I read the three pages of replies, which I will right away, I want to say that I do care and believe that caring connotes action. Not just for our personal selves, but also for the good of the country in which we live.

ETA Wow, I found this with a Made in USA search.

 

So this post doesn't apply!!!

Edited December 19, 2008 by Karin

[Storm Bay]

No for my "real" reply.

 

Some Americans care, some don't. Some care more about saving the world than they do about helping their own country, and some are more about helping their own country than anyone else. Some care only about people they know, and some care only about themselves.

 

Having lived in 3 countries I've seen several sides of this. It's been popular to bash Americans for decades, whether or not it's correct to do so. The stereoptypical American tourist does exist, but to consider all Americans the same base on this is like lumping everyone of one race based on a few.

 

I think it's important to CARE. Care for others, but also care for yourself. Care about what goes on in the world but still buy American. The global economy doesn't fix the tragedies that go on in so many parts of the world. Supporting troops isn't going to sit well with pacifists who may or may not show their care in other ways, or may not care at all. I support out troops, but I also support MDS, a pacifist group that uses almost every penny they receive to help disaster victims both at home and abroad. I support our church, but I also buy food for hungry families--I prefer to buy the bags at the supermarkets rather than send money to some charity that keeps wasting charitable contributions with an inordinate amount of mailings.

 

What shocked me when I moved to this state (I've lived in 4 states, 3 provinces plus in Europe, but Europe doesn't count here as I was very little) is how hard some people are in this neck of the woods. Then I found out that this states has one of the lowest rates of charitable giving in the country. What's interesting is that many drivers here drive extremely selfishly (not all drivers, of course, but a lot--drive too close, speed up if you signal to change lanes so you can't get in, etc). People here don't smile much, tend to stick to themselves. So, can we conclude that are they all hard hearted? No. Lots of people rallied to help the family down the street during their late dd's illness, although mostly anonymously. Someone mowed their lawn when they were at the hospital all the time, people helped pay their electric bill, gave grocery gift cards, donated to a fund drive. But the focus is more narrow. Interestingly, this area votes liberal as a whole (ie Democrat).