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Quick…lol…I need a new washing machine


Scarlett
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10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

And newer machines are not necessarily made the same way as older machines. A Maytag or Miele from nearly 20 years ago isn't the same as a machine made today.  When people say "I've had my Acme Widget Washer for 20 years and it works just fine!", I think "Great, where can I get a new-old-stock, 20 year old Acme Widget Washer?" No where.  The performance of a machine I can no longer buy doesn't help me make a choice on what's available today. 

I've had my SQ for 4 or 5 years, and haven't noticed it beating up the clothes, for what that's worth. 

By reputation, the Mieles made today are even better than those made 20 years ago. Still built to last for two decades.

I don't think the characterization of current models being inferior is accurate. The new ones are a trade up.

And--from the necessity of needing to run clothes through a laundromat Speed Queen for a couple weeks--I have a very different impression of the "fabric care" of Speed Queen vs Miele, with the latter easily getting an A rating and the former getting a D (or C- if I were in a generous mood).

SQs have their pros, but being gentle on fabrics is not one of them. Those agitators are very rough on clothes in my experience, and I think that is a widely acknowledged weakness of these washers when they are reviewed. Even SQ realized the old agitator style beat clothes, which is part of why they did their 2018 redesign.

Bill 

 

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Another so far unmentioned factor (and no small deal) is the speed of the spin cycle in washers.

In a Miele the spin cycle is at 1,600 RPM. Clothes come out "dryish" (slightly damp, not sopping wet) and clothes finish off very quickly and easily in a dryer.

In the SQ TC5 the spin cycle only runs at 710 RPM, so clothes come out pretty wet, which places a heavy burden on the dryer, consumes a lot of energy, and exacerbates the roughness to fabric care inflicted by the SQ washer. 

Bill

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Another so far unmentioned factor (and no small deal) is the speed of the spin cycle in washers.

In a Miele the spin cycle is at 1,600 RPM. Clothes come out "dryish" (slightly damp, not sopping wet) and clothes finish off very quickly and easily in a dryer.

In the SQ TC5 the spin cycle only runs at 710 RPM, so clothes come out pretty wet, which places a heavy burden on the dryer, consumes a lot of energy, and exacerbates the roughness to fabric care inflicted by the SQ washer. 

Bill

 

 

 

Ummm my clothes are spun 'dryish' in my Speed Queen... best spinner I've ever had... if you hang up a towel to air dry there are no drips....

Washer cylcles take 30 minutes-- drying takes about the same because washer did the work.

No way are they using 20-50 gal of water.

We use about 2 TBS of detergent for an x-large load.

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Wanted to add that we have a Miele dishwasher.  It is a great machine--QUIET!!!--excellent job in efficiency mode (1 hr cycle).   Cleaning the filter takes less than 3 minutes and is no big deal.  We have a local service person too-- but should not be needing him!

Edited by Jann in TX
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Just now, Jann in TX said:

Ummm my clothes are spun 'dryish' in my Speed Queen... best spinner I've ever had... if you hang up a towel to air dry there are no drips....

Washer cylcles take 30 minutes-- drying takes about the same because washer did the work.

No way are they using 20-50 gal of water.

We use about 2 TBS of detergent for an x-large load.

Speed Queens spin at 710 RPM. I've used them. Clothes come out much (much) wetter than the Miele (which spin 2.25 times as fast). The difference isn't subtle.

The SQ water usage reports of 24-50 gallons of water (depending on the type of cycle and fill) were gleaned from multiple sources on the internet.

Do you have different figures for SQ water usage?

Bill

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7 minutes ago, Jann in TX said:

Ummm my clothes are spun 'dryish' in my Speed Queen... best spinner I've ever had... if you hang up a towel to air dry there are no drips....

Washer cylcles take 30 minutes-- drying takes about the same because washer did the work.

No way are they using 20-50 gal of water.

We use about 2 TBS of detergent for an x-large load.

---

Wanted to add that we have a Miele dishwasher.  It is a great machine--QUIET!!!--excellent job in efficiency mode (1 hr cycle).   Cleaning the filter takes less than 3 minutes and is no big deal.  We have a local service person too-- but should not be needing him!

Same here. I air dry the bath mats because they can't go in the dryer.  They come out "dryish", not sopping wet. 

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Well MY Speed Queen is efficient AND it spins out clothes better than ever imagined-- I guess you could come to Texas and visit me and see-- DH would be glad to talk gadgets with you!

Maybe mine is a fluke-- but I seriously doubt it.

We did not have the funds for a Miele-- plus I HATE front loaders.

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6 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I dunno know about those Speed Queens. With all the love they get on this forum and the internet generally (except for the "new" 2018 model debacle) I was strongly considering an SQ as a potential replacement for our 17 year old Miele that I wrongly believed was heading south (turned out we had a simple electrical junction box issue).

The SQ gets scathing reviews over cleaning quality in independent testing. Likewise they are notoriously rough on clothes. The kicker for me was that SQ essentially cheated on Department of Energy efficiency standards when they rebooted the TC5 by creating a "normal cycle" that barely meets standards, but is so horrible at washing that they tell customers not to use "normal" in everyday use. This "normal" cycle was created simply to evade efficiency regulations. Not kosher IMO, especially in drought-prone California. They are simply too wasteful.

If they don't clean well (a point of debate), and they are very rough on fabric (not so debatable), and they are wasteful of water, I think I'll stick with Mieles (which sip water and power, clean fantastically, are famously gentle on clothes, and easily last as long as SQs. Better long-term value IMO.

When our machine appeared to be "down" (again the issue was not with the Miele) I took our clothes to the local laundromat, which has Speed Queens, and my wife was not at all amused with how roughly they treated the clothes. They are essentially laundromat machines w/o a coin slot.

If the quality of clothes handling of commercial laundromat washer/dryers isn't an issue for a homeowner, SQ at least last a long time. But being that rough on clothing vs a Miele was a deal-breaker here (as if the cheating on water efficiency wasn't enough).

Bill

 

 

 

I will fight you!  When I was waiting for my SQ to arrive I used a laundromat for a month.  Those front loading machines were so hard on our clothes.  We never had that much pilling with our old top loader (a Magic Chef that lasted 17 years.) I find that clothes get just as clean in a top loader with less wear and tear because they're not tumbling in the machine forever.  

My machine is 9 years old now, so I can't speak for the newer ones.  It has a feature where I can add more water if I turn the knob backwards and hold it.  I'm much more worried about electricity usage than water usage.  My electric bill is easily 3 times my water bill. Where I live, water falls from the sky . . . often way too much, so my priorities are different.  Our water is soft too and I suspect that helps get them cleaner, faster in a tub of water. In fact, I strongly suspect the water does a lot of work and the detergent takes the credit.  My clothes even got perfectly clean when I used homemade detergent.  

6 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I read that cleaning tests use small towels, with individual stains, vs say, jeans and larger items that have ground in dirt and sweat. So it just depends what you mostly are washing. If you have a few small stains on mostly clean lightweight clothing, then swishing a long time in a small amount of water makes sense and probably works better. But if you have kid clothes caked in dirt, dog bedding, etc having those swishing in their own filth for 50 minutes isn't the best way to get them actually clean. 

Sort of like, sometimes a bath is great, but you don't put a kid caked in mud in the bath or they are sitting in a mud puddle and don't really get clean. 

But yes, they are harder on clothes, agitator machines. Again, if mostly using on kid clothes/jeans/etc maybe that's less of an issue to you than if you are washing nicer stuff. 

The other big thing with speed queen is how easy they are to work on, for those that like to work on their own stuff when need be. And have a much longer lifespan. 

Don't tell Spy Car, but my machine has a prewash feature that I use in situations where stuff is super dirty.  It washes and spins out, but doesn't rinse.  The worst of the dirt gets rinsed away and then you do another cycle that includes a rinse.  

5 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Those with a speed queen, can you open the lid or in other manner soak clothes as long as you want? One of my frustrations with modern washers is that the best "soak" feature is for say, 20 minutes. 

I use both depending upon what I'm doing.  Prewash is a pretty quick cycle, but sometimes you just want to leave the lid up and soak longer.  I needed to bleach some drop cloths to make curtains and I soaked them in bleach for about a day.  Also, if a storm comes through, I fill the machine with water just in case there's a disruption and we we need water to flush.

I just checked my machine.  It says something like commercial . . .blah blah . . . extra super capacity . . . blah blah . . . 16 lbs.  If there are machines that hold twice as much, I'm not sure how I'd make it up the stairs with two clothes baskets at once.  All I know is that my clothes are washed and dried in about an hour; maybe an hour and 15 minutes . . . even my queen-sized comforters.  I don't even HAVE a speed queen dryer.  Mine is something cheap from Sears.

 

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5 minutes ago, Jann in TX said:

Well MY Speed Queen is efficient AND it spins out clothes better than ever imagined-- I guess you could come to Texas and visit me and see-- DH would be glad to talk gadgets with you!

Maybe mine is a fluke-- but I seriously doubt it.

We did not have the funds for a Miele-- plus I HATE front loaders.

Despite common misconception, the prices of the basic Miele washer are virtually identical to the cost of the basic Speed Queen (if not getting NOS from two decades ago).

And the cost of electricity and (especially water) make the cost of running a SQ much higher, especially in places where water is dear (like CA).

I've used the SQ at a local laundromat and in my experience the laundry came out very wet compared to what I'm used to. Not a close call. 1600 RPM vs 710 RPM is a matter of physics.

And look at the drum designs. Worlds apart. Miele has a honeycomb system that makes clothes hydroplane off the drum and they never create holes in fabric the way that old fashioned agitator style drums do. 

Bill

 

 

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1 minute ago, KungFuPanda said:

I will fight you!  When I was waiting for my SQ to arrive I used a laundromat for a month.  Those front loading machines were so hard on our clothes.  We never had that much pilling with our old top loader (a Magic Chef that lasted 17 years.) I find that clothes get just as clean in a top loader with less wear and tear because they're not tumbling in the machine forever.  

My machine is 9 years old now, so I can't speak for the newer ones.  It has a feature where I can add more water if I turn the knob backwards and hold it.  I'm much more worried about electricity usage than water usage.  My electric bill is easily 3 times my water bill. Where I live, water falls from the sky . . . often way too much, so my priorities are different.  Our water is soft too and I suspect that helps get them cleaner, faster in a tub of water. In fact, I strongly suspect the water does a lot of work and the detergent takes the credit.  My clothes even got perfectly clean when I used homemade detergent.  

Don't tell Spy Car, but my machine has a prewash feature that I use in situations where stuff is super dirty.  It washes and spins out, but doesn't rinse.  The worst of the dirt gets rinsed away and then you do another cycle that includes a rinse.  

I use both depending upon what I'm doing.  Prewash is a pretty quick cycle, but sometimes you just want to leave the lid up and soak longer.  I needed to bleach some drop cloths to make curtains and I soaked them in bleach for about a day.  Also, if a storm comes through, I fill the machine with water just in case there's a disruption and we we need water to flush.

I just checked my machine.  It says something like commercial . . .blah blah . . . extra super capacity . . . blah blah . . . 16 lbs.  If there are machines that hold twice as much, I'm not sure how I'd make it up the stairs with two clothes baskets at once.  All I know is that my clothes are washed and dried in about an hour; maybe an hour and 15 minutes . . . even my queen-sized comforters.  I don't even HAVE a speed queen dryer.  Mine is something cheap from Sears.

 

I'm doubting that your laundromat experience involved Mieles, right?

My laundromat experience did involve Speed Queens. I had a direct comparison. Not even a remotely close experience, even if wasting water wasn't a factor (which it certainly is in these parts).

IMS the new Mieles have a capacity of 8 kg which (at 17.6 pounds seems like more than the SQ, which is surprising to me).

Wash/dry times are pretty similar. Mieles are a little slower on the wash cycle (about 10 min) but seem to dry faster (thanks to the high speed spin cycle). And yes, one can dry faster than wash with a Miele, but an hour fifteen is close to a typical Miele wash/dry time, while consuming less energy, less water, being kinder to clothes, and cleaning better.

Sorry, but you a picking a fight that you can't win on objective measures. SQs do not hold a candle to Miele in any respect.

Bill 

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33 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Same here. I air dry the bath mats because they can't go in the dryer.  They come out "dryish", not sopping wet. 

We could do a test.

The dry weight of a typical bath towel vs the wet weight coming out of a SQ vs a Miele.

I know from having used both machines that the Miele would easily win such a test. With 1600 RPM vs 710 it really isn't a fair contest. 

Bill

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3 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I believe the TR machines are the 2018 SQs that inspired internet outrage.

The TC series is back to the older style of agitator that beats clothes to hell.

 

Yes, but when they went back to the pre 2018 design they did not change the model number.  One would need to check serial number to verify it is post 2018 debacle. 

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26 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I'm doubting that your laundromat experience involved Mieles, right?

My laundromat experience did involve Speed Queens. I had a direct comparison. Not even a remotely close experience, even if wasting water wasn't a factor (which it certainly is in these parts).

IMS the new Mieles have a capacity of 8 kg which (at 17.6 pounds seems like more than the SQ, which is surprising to me).

Wash/dry times are pretty similar. Mieles are a little slower on the wash cycle (about 10 min) but seem to dry faster (thanks to the high speed spin cycle). And yes, one can dry faster than wash with a Miele, but an hour fifteen is close to a typical Miele wash/dry time, while consuming less energy, less water, being kinder to clothes, and cleaning better.

It has been a few years but I also used speed queens when I had to go to the laundry mat for about 3 years.  I also had agitator top load washers…mostly whirlpool after that. Not one time did I ever have a complaint about poor cleaning or tearing up my clothes.  It was only when I went to the HE that I had a complaint with things not getting wet and coming out with weird streaks of dirt.  
 

Maybe you have more delicate clothes than I do.  🤷🏻‍♀️

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7 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Miele-Drum_46527c80523046a5c0b3b8e305815

 

20000154742-000-00_20000154742.jpg

Above, two photos of highly-engineered Miele honeycomb drums that help make these machines very gentle on fabric.

Below, the SQ drum.

Bill

F143862237.png 

That does look very high quality.  

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, but when they went back to the pre 2018 design they did not change the model number.  One would need to check serial number to verify it is post 2018 debacle. 

Oh. Is that correct? I thought the TR line had the newer 2018 agitator design that is reputedly gentler on clothes (yet sparked internet outrage) while the TC design returned to the traditional agitator action that beats up clothes very badly (but is loved by "the internet)?

Bill

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19 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It has been a few years but I also used speed queens when I had to go to the laundry mat for about 3 years.  I also had agitator top load washers…mostly whirlpool after that. Not one time did I ever have a complaint about poor cleaning or tearing up my clothes.  It was only when I went to the HE that I had a complaint with things not getting wet and coming out with weird streaks of dirt.  
 

Maybe you have more delicate clothes than I do.  🤷🏻‍♀️

The SQ cleaned fine in my experience, but rough on clothes (and water hungry).

I don't believe my laundry is especially delicate, but were I to wash a fine dress shirt in a Miele I'd do so without concern. I'd hand wash before running a fine shirt through a laundromat Speed Queen.

We saw a difference with tough clothing items like cotton t-shirts. I suppose if one likes "distressed" jeans, then that's a SQ positive. Otherwise, these are rough on clothes in my estimation.

Technology has marched on. Miele delivers state of the art fabric care, top notch cleaning, low water and power use, while delivering a machine designed to last multiple decades at the same price point as a Speed Queen (whose technology was not state of the art 50 years ago).

I get the frustration people have with appliances that don't last. 100%. But SQ isn't the only option for those seeking a durable machine. Mieles last as long as SQs, but function better, are kinder to clothes, and waste fewer resources.

I'd at least consider the option. A serious upgrade IMO.

Bill

 

 

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1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

Despite common misconception, the prices of the basic Miele washer are virtually identical to the cost of the basic Speed Queen (if not getting NOS from two decades ago).

And the cost of electricity and (especially water) make the cost of running a SQ much higher, especially in places where water is dear (like CA).

I've used the SQ at a local laundromat and in my experience the laundry came out very wet compared to what I'm used to. Not a close call. 1600 RPM vs 710 RPM is a matter of physics.

And look at the drum designs. Worlds apart. Miele has a honeycomb system that makes clothes hydroplane off the drum and they never create holes in fabric the way that old fashioned agitator style drums do. 

Bill

 

 

I’ve narrowed it to these two very different options and you are right, the prices are very close. My son swears by the Miele for getting his partner’s seriously dirty, greasy work clothes clean and loves the high spin speed. And he likes that it is easy on fabrics and uses little water. The only advantages I see for us for the SQ is that my spouse could potentially repair himself, the standard warranty is longer, and the cycles are shorter. I may end up with the Miele washer and an SQ dryer.

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29 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Oh. Is that correct? I thought the TR line had the newer 2018 agitator design that is reputedly gentler on clothes (yet sparked internet outrage) while the TC design returned to the traditional agitator action that beats up clothes very badly (but is loved by "the internet)?

Bill

That’s also my understanding from reading several review articles.

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I looked at Mieles when shopping for my last washer. The problem of having a local service company was one of my main turn offs. There was only one service company and they were 45 minutes away. If for some reason they went out of business I would be out of luck.
The second was the questionability of being able to use bleach in it. For anyone with experience with the machines, can you use bleach without trouble in Mieles? I don’t use bleach a lot, but when I need it, I need it. (kids, pets) The user guides did not appear to look favorably on bleach use.

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lol. I don’t care if people buy and love their Miele washing machines. Or any other brand for that matter. 
 

But-  our Speed Queen has made me happy. I wash delicate clothing in it all the time with no damage. My clothes are spun quite dry and are not sopping wet. We do not have high water bills. In fact, our water bill went down a bit after getting our SQ due, I am sure to more efficient washing. The capacity means that I don’t have to do as many separate loads. I am happy with the cleanliness and  brightness of the clothes. I will keep recommending “Speed Queen, Speed Queen, Speed Queen!”  In fact, I have half seriously thought about which kid I would bequeath my SQ to!  
 

btw- I didn’t bother to get a SQ dryer. I don’t see the difference in dryers that I have personally seen in washing machines. 

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1 minute ago, Frances said:

I’ve narrowed it to these two very different options and you are right, the prices are very close. My son swears by the Miele for getting his partner’s seriously dirty, greasy work clothes clean and loves the high spin speed. And he likes that it is easy on fabrics and uses little water. The only advantages I see for us for the SQ is that my spouse could potentially repair himself, the standard warranty is longer, and the cycles are shorter. I may end up with the Miele washer and an SQ dryer.

The difference in fabric care is considerable, and--as your son is rightly telling you--the quality of cleaning is top of the heap. All while preserving resources and offering a device that will last a very long time.

The wash cycles are similar in duration (with Miele being a little slower on wash), but then clothes dry much faster due to the 1600 RPM spin in the washer.

I have the old style Miele dryer (standard electric dryer technology). I was initially reticent when the newer Miele dryers adopted a "heat exchange" technology that seemed newfangled to me upon release, but since then I've been reading that the new dryers are the bomb and don't require venting (which we have).

The SQs do have a longer warranty and I suppose they have a DIY repair advantage. But there is no comparison otherwise if you seek to save your clothes, save water, safe electricity, while betting a better result. 

Muscle cars from the 1960s are easier to work on than modern vehicles (and are fun despite their wastefulness with fuel, lack of safety features, etc). That analogy largely holds IMO.

Bill

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Oh. Is that correct? I thought the TR line had the newer 2018 agitator design that is reputedly gentler on clothes (yet sparked internet outrage) while the TC design returned to the traditional agitator action that beats up clothes very badly (but is loved by "the internet)?

Bill

Ugh. I don’t know.  I thought I had it figured out but maybe not. 

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2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I'm doubting that your laundromat experience involved Mieles, right?

My laundromat experience did involve Speed Queens. I had a direct comparison. Not even a remotely close experience, even if wasting water wasn't a factor (which it certainly is in these parts).

IMS the new Mieles have a capacity of 8 kg which (at 17.6 pounds seems like more than the SQ, which is surprising to me).

Wash/dry times are pretty similar. Mieles are a little slower on the wash cycle (about 10 min) but seem to dry faster (thanks to the high speed spin cycle). And yes, one can dry faster than wash with a Miele, but an hour fifteen is close to a typical Miele wash/dry time, while consuming less energy, less water, being kinder to clothes, and cleaning better.

Sorry, but you a picking a fight that you can't win on objective measures. SQs do not hold a candle to Miele in any respect.

Bill 

I don’t even remember the brand at the laundromat; just that they were front loaders. It seemed like they took at least an hour. It was nuts. I was used to having things washed and dried in 60-70 minutes. It seemed like the extra 30 minutes of friction wasn’t great for the fabric. 
 

Our clothes are just clean. And we hold onto clothes for a ridiculously long time. Do I suspect the quality of the water does a lot of the work, but if I can get clean clothes, 30 minute cycles, a machine that’ll last for decades, and a great warranty for less than a thousand bucks, that’s my sweet spot. I also add stuff to the load after it’s started all the time. 
 

I don’t live in a desert.  (Some months I don’t have to water my garden at all.) I have zero interest in owning a machine with electronic components or sourcing special detergents. I like that any ole cheap dryer does the trick. I don’t need to source find clothes baskets to lug 30 lbs of clothes up the steps or high capacity dryers to dry a load that size. Should my washer break, I won’t have to track down special technicians because any appliance guy can fix these things. I’m kinda hoping it lives forever and never breaks. It’s about 9 years old now. 

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The last time I used a laundromat the washing machines were not at all like my  Speed Queen. (I was there because my dryer broke. My washing machine was fine but it was easier to do both washing and drying at the laundry. ). The dryers actually scorched some of my clothing!  

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6 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I don’t even remember the brand at the laundromat; just that they were front loaders. It seemed like they took at least an hour. It was nuts. I was used to having things washed and dried in 60-70 minutes. It seemed like the extra 30 minutes of friction wasn’t great for the fabric. 
 

Our clothes are just clean. And we hold onto clothes for a ridiculously long time. Do I suspect the quality of the water does a lot of the work, but if I can get clean clothes, 30 minute cycles, a machine that’ll last for decades, and a great warranty for less than a thousand bucks, that’s my sweet spot. I also add stuff to the load after it’s started all the time. 
 

I don’t live in a desert.  (Some months I don’t have to water my garden at all.) I have zero interest in owning a machine with electronic components or sourcing special detergents. I like that any ole cheap dryer does the trick. I don’t need to source find clothes baskets to lug 30 lbs of clothes up the steps or high capacity dryers to dry a load that size. Should my washer break, I won’t have to track down special technicians because any appliance guy can fix these things. I’m kinda hoping it lives forever and never breaks. It’s about 9 years old now. 

Saying you didn't like an unknown brand of front loading washers is hardly a compelling basis of comparison of about Mieles vs Speed Queens. Sorry. Weak case. 

Mieles are very well known for being at the top of the game for being gentle on clothes. Where Speed Queens are equally well known for being hard on clothes. The old school agitators are brutal on fabric. I can't believe this is a "fight" you'd pursue when the facts are so against your position.

Mieles cost about the same as Speed Queens and last just as long. They just don't put clothes through the ringer like SQs do. The difference fabric care is night and day.

You might not mind wasting massive amounts of water, but that's not an ethical or economical option here. Droughts are not limited to SoCal and climate change is likely to make that situation worse.

Mieles don't do 30 lbs of laundry, so no worries about stairs or needing special baskets to tote laundry or an extra large capacity dryer. Heck, with the advanced high speed spin cycle the need for a fancy dryer is far less necessary than with the Speed Queens (which leave clothes quite wet relative to Mieles).

Every washing machine includes electronics, including Speed Queens. 

We don't use any special detergent, just a basic inexpensive unscented liquid from Trader Joes that my wife likes.

Getting service is as easy as calling a phone number at Miele, no need to track a repair person down and simply not an "issue." Further, the Miele trained techs are top notch in my experience.

The quality is worlds apart in my experience.

Bill

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The last time I used a laundromat the washing machines were not at all like my  Speed Queen. (I was there because my dryer broke. My washing machine was fine but it was easier to do both washing and drying at the laundry. ). The dryers actually scorched some of my clothing!  

Our local laundromat has Speed Queens. Exactly the same machines sold to the general public with the addition of a coin slot, otherwise identical.

SQ actually uses the commercial laundromat angle as a "selling point," which seems somewhat odd to me, as one gets laundromat quality washes out of them (which isn't a compliment as I see it). Very rough on clothes.

I appreciate that the SQs are built to last--but so are Mieles--they are just much friendlier on clothes and the planet.

Bill

 

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1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

Our local laundromat has Speed Queens. Exactly the same machines sold to the general public with the addition of a coin slot, otherwise identical.

SQ actually uses the commercial laundromat angle as a "selling point," which seems somewhat odd to me, as one gets laundromat quality washes out of them (which isn't a compliment as I see it). Very rough on clothes.

I appreciate that the SQs are built to last--but so are Mieles--they are just much friendlier on clothes and the planet.

Bill

 

It’s not so much a brand loyalty thing with me as a top loader preference. Time is a resource too. Maybe I’ll make a different choice if my area has water shortages in 20-30 years, but for my location electricity is a bigger concern. Electric bills are easily 3-4 times higher than water bills. I thought of rigging for gray water, but my rain barrels are always full and rarely used. My garden suffers from too much rain more often than drought. 
 

I’m sure your research is sound and Meile won all the contests. I have their vacuum and love it. I haven’t taken my washer apart to know about the hidden electronics. It looks completely mechanical to me. 🤣

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Ok, I went back and read the blog closer (The one Katie posted) and I am defintely leaning toward the TR5.  I would prefer the no lid lock of the CT model but over all the TR5 sounds like the best fit for me.  

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13 hours ago, Spy Car said:

 

I've used the SQ at a local laundromat and in my experience the laundry came out very wet compared to what I'm used to. Not a close call. 1600 RPM vs 710 RPM is a matter of physics.

And look at the drum designs. Worlds apart. Miele has a honeycomb system that makes clothes hydroplane off the drum and they never create holes in fabric the way that old fashioned agitator style drums do. 

Bill

 

The laundromat makes money off your clothes taking longer to dry, lol. I spent quite a bit of time at the laundromat recently and they did have speed queen washers and dryers, but they were NOT the same as the home version. Maybe my laundromat is extra fancy (I doubt it...I'm in redneck territory) but the washers are bigger and are front loaders, not top loaders. Still speed queen, but not the same. The dyers are not the same either - again, they were speed queen, but WAY hotter and harder on clothes than the speed queen dryer I ended up buying (used). My son actually refused to let me take his clothes back to the laundromat, but has no issue with the way his clothes come out in the speed queen dryer. The ones at the laundromat were SO hot...I put them on medium and still they were drying things in rapid time from being blast furnaces. Taht doesn't mean all speed queen dryers are blast furnaces. Same with the washers. Heck, there are differences even within the home speed queen models - significant ones. 

They have the same steel construction, same types of parts, but are NOT the exact same as a laundromat machine. 

12 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 

btw- I didn’t bother to get a SQ dryer. I don’t see the difference in dryers that I have personally seen in washing machines. 

Only difference we found was in the lack of electronic parts to break, and ease of repair. My husband has fixed  many a dryer, and taken our old one totally apart more than once. This last time the only thing left that could be bad was the control board, which they don't make anymore and if they did was practically the price of a new dryer. This was after testing all relays, multipl fuses located in hard to get places, etc. He was cursing that dryer, lol. 

Then he brought home the used speed queen dryer - $200. He took it apart to clean it before we started using it, both to make sure there were no hidden bugs in it (read a horror story about roaches brought inside in a used appliance once) and to clean out lint. He was practically orgasmic as he took it apart - very simple construction, very WELL constructed, not a single chip board. All easy to repair, easy to get to the parts, etc. He will say that the parts are slightly more expensive than for our old washer, but I think hat was for name brand vs off brand. 

This was one of his tweets https://twitter.com/EanMeyer/status/1414349996745531396?s=20

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Ugh. I don’t know.  I thought I had it figured out but maybe not. 

TC5 is the old style agitator, which moves in opposition to the drum. Harder on clothes, but more washing power. TR5 is new style, where drum moves around agitator - but they did add the heavy soil option which is supposed to work well, but does make it take longer. So if speed isn't essential and you want more gentle on clothes, get the TR5. Otherwise look for a TC5 or for a used one. 

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2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

The laundromat makes money off your clothes taking longer to dry, lol. I spent quite a bit of time at the laundromat recently and they did have speed queen washers and dryers, but they were NOT the same as the home version. Maybe my laundromat is extra fancy (I doubt it...I'm in redneck territory) but the washers are bigger and are front loaders, not top loaders. Still speed queen, but not the same. The dyers are not the same either - again, they were speed queen, but WAY hotter and harder on clothes than the speed queen dryer I ended up buying (used). My son actually refused to let me take his clothes back to the laundromat, but has no issue with the way his clothes come out in the speed queen dryer. The ones at the laundromat were SO hot...I put them on medium and still they were drying things in rapid time from being blast furnaces. Taht doesn't mean all speed queen dryers are blast furnaces. Same with the washers. Heck, there are differences even within the home speed queen models - significant ones. 

They have the same steel construction, same types of parts, but are NOT the exact same as a laundromat machine. 

Only difference we found was in the lack of electronic parts to break, and ease of repair. My husband has fixed  many a dryer, and taken our old one totally apart more than once. This last time the only thing left that could be bad was the control board, which they don't make anymore and if they did was practically the price of a new dryer. This was after testing all relays, multipl fuses located in hard to get places, etc. He was cursing that dryer, lol. 

Then he brought home the used speed queen dryer - $200. He took it apart to clean it before we started using it, both to make sure there were no hidden bugs in it (read a horror story about roaches brought inside in a used appliance once) and to clean out lint. He was practically orgasmic as he took it apart - very simple construction, very WELL constructed, not a single chip board. All easy to repair, easy to get to the parts, etc. He will say that the parts are slightly more expensive than for our old washer, but I think hat was for name brand vs off brand. 

This was one of his tweets https://twitter.com/EanMeyer/status/1414349996745531396?s=20

TC5 is the old style agitator, which moves in opposition to the drum. Harder on clothes, but more washing power. TR5 is new style, where drum moves around agitator - but they did add the heavy soil option which is supposed to work well, but does make it take longer. So if speed isn't essential and you want more gentle on clothes, get the TR5. Otherwise look for a TC5 or for a used one. 

Thanks.  Yes, I did re-read very carefully and discussed with dh and I am leaning heavily toward the TR5.

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I'll be honest....I ruin my clothes on my own long before they wear out in a washer/dryer. I'm a klutz, and I spill. A lot. I run into doorjambs and catch my shirt on them...often. My cats claw my belly when they kneed on me. I cook  a lot, with real oil/fat, and get spattered because I can never remember to put on an apron. And I don't think to grab a spatter guard until after I get hit with hot oil, lol. 

Oh, and the permanent marker, paint stains, bleach stains from cleaning with bleach...etc. I don't buy expensive clothing. And my kids outgrow before they wear out. 

I do separate out the delicate stuff, and I TRY to always dry the synthetic fast drying stuff separately from the cotton or heavy stuff that takes a long time to dry. And I hang my bras, and my expensive socks (my new found clothing obsession....I buy $10 pants but $16 socks, lol). 

But growing up we had old school agitator washers an I don't remember having holes in my shirts then either. But...we wear petty tough stuff I guess. 

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Thanks.  Yes, I did re-read very carefully and discussed with dh and I am leaning heavily toward the TR5.

I think that makes sense, as long as you don't mind the longer wash time of the heavy soil option, and are not, say, washing cloth diapers, lol. I think the way it does cool water to soak the stains/dirt, then hotter water wash, etc is pretty cool sounding. 

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And to throw a bone to Spy Car, if self repair wasn't a huge factor in our lives, and I wasn't looking to buy used (and pay used prices) vs new,  I'd look hard at Miele vs Speed Queen, and definitely if I was in a water restriction area! Gotta love some German Construction, for sure. 

I think what we maybe can agree on is that Miele is the BMW of appliances, or maybe the Volkswagon, depending on which model, lol. And Speed Queen is the old American Muscle Car, or perhaps the Ford F250, lol. 

both have their purposes, and their admirers. And you don't want to try to haul hay in a BMW sedan. 

And that big box store appliances in the modern age suck eggs. That we can also agree with, lol. Get German made, or Wisconsin made, depending on your priorities, but not that other junk. 

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21 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I dunno know about those Speed Queens. With all the love they get on this forum and the internet generally (except for the "new" 2018 model debacle) I was strongly considering an SQ as a potential replacement for our 17 year old Miele that I wrongly believed was heading south (turned out we had a simple electrical junction box issue).

The SQ gets scathing reviews over cleaning quality in independent testing. Likewise they are notoriously rough on clothes. The kicker for me was that SQ essentially cheated on Department of Energy efficiency standards when they rebooted the TC5 by creating a "normal cycle" that barely meets standards, but is so horrible at washing that they tell customers not to use "normal" in everyday use. This "normal" cycle was created simply to evade efficiency regulations. Not kosher IMO, especially in drought-prone California. They are simply too wasteful.

If they don't clean well (a point of debate), and they are very rough on fabric (not so debatable), and they are wasteful of water, I think I'll stick with Mieles (which sip water and power, clean fantastically, are famously gentle on clothes, and easily last as long as SQs. Better long-term value IMO.

When our machine appeared to be "down" (again the issue was not with the Miele) I took our clothes to the local laundromat, which has Speed Queens, and my wife was not at all amused with how roughly they treated the clothes. They are essentially laundromat machines w/o a coin slot.

If the quality of clothes handling of commercial laundromat washer/dryers isn't an issue for a homeowner, SQ at least last a long time. But being that rough on clothing vs a Miele was a deal-breaker here (as if the cheating on water efficiency wasn't enough).

Bill

 

 

 

This is the same info we found as well.  The older man at our local appliance store told me that he felt they were so popular because of their longevity, but that they weren't actually the best at cleaning clothes.  I trust him completely because when we were shopping for all new appliances after our kitchen remodel he told me that he couldn't in good faith recommend any particular brand anymore. They have all become equally unreliable.😄 

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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

 

The laundromat makes money off your clothes taking longer to dry, lol. I spent quite a bit of time at the laundromat recently and they did have speed queen washers and dryers, but they were NOT the same as the home version. Maybe my laundromat is extra fancy (I doubt it...I'm in redneck territory) but the washers are bigger and are front loaders, not top loaders. Still speed queen, but not the same. The dyers are not the same either - again, they were speed queen, but WAY hotter and harder on clothes than the speed queen dryer I ended up buying (used). My son actually refused to let me take his clothes back to the laundromat, but has no issue with the way his clothes come out in the speed queen dryer. The ones at the laundromat were SO hot...I put them on medium and still they were drying things in rapid time from being blast furnaces. Taht doesn't mean all speed queen dryers are blast furnaces. Same with the washers. Heck, there are differences even within the home speed queen models - significant ones. 

They have the same steel construction, same types of parts, but are NOT the exact same as a laundromat machine. 

Only difference we found was in the lack of electronic parts to break, and ease of repair. My husband has fixed  many a dryer, and taken our old one totally apart more than once. This last time the only thing left that could be bad was the control board, which they don't make anymore and if they did was practically the price of a new dryer. This was after testing all relays, multipl fuses located in hard to get places, etc. He was cursing that dryer, lol. 

Then he brought home the used speed queen dryer - $200. He took it apart to clean it before we started using it, both to make sure there were no hidden bugs in it (read a horror story about roaches brought inside in a used appliance once) and to clean out lint. He was practically orgasmic as he took it apart - very simple construction, very WELL constructed, not a single chip board. All easy to repair, easy to get to the parts, etc. He will say that the parts are slightly more expensive than for our old washer, but I think hat was for name brand vs off brand. 

This was one of his tweets https://twitter.com/EanMeyer/status/1414349996745531396?s=20

TC5 is the old style agitator, which moves in opposition to the drum. Harder on clothes, but more washing power. TR5 is new style, where drum moves around agitator - but they did add the heavy soil option which is supposed to work well, but does make it take longer. So if speed isn't essential and you want more gentle on clothes, get the TR5. Otherwise look for a TC5 or for a used one. 

Local laundromat has standard top loading Speed Queens. The same units sold to the general public with the addition of a coin slot. Color me not impressed.

I wanted to like Speed Queens. I like (too soft a word) appliances that last. But in my estimation Speed Queens are technologically backwards (more than 50 years behind-the-times) and the results speak for themselves.

They are resource hogs--to the point that they needed to cheat to get the TC line reboot to market by inventing a "normal" mode that is essentially useless in order to circumvent DOE guidelines. That's a cheat.

And they are rough on clothes, which they tried to improve (how successfully I don't know) with the 2018 TR line that got the company tarred and feather on the internet.

I grant these SQ washing machines are simple, but don't see that as a plus when the direct costs are inefficiency, wastefulness, and rough clothes handling. 

Bill

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

 I haven’t taken my washer apart to know about the hidden electronics. It looks completely mechanical to me. 🤣

I mean, I'm sure there are wires and capacitors connecting the motor to the timer, thermostat, and whatnot, but there isn't a circuit board in mine.  I specifically went looking for a washer that did not have an electronic control panel or circuit board.  The board is expensive to replace, to the point where you might as well just get a new machine.    

I looked up the parts list for my machine, and nope: no circuit boards in it. It's mechanical. 

I still have jeans and t shirts that I bought around the same time I bought the SQ. They aren't excessively worn or getting thrashed. 

I'm sure Miele's are nice machines, but they are $$$. Some of them are as much as $4,500.  There's no one around here that sells them or fixes them, so 🤷‍♀️

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15 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And to throw a bone to Spy Car, if self repair wasn't a huge factor in our lives, and I wasn't looking to buy used (and pay used prices) vs new,  I'd look hard at Miele vs Speed Queen, and definitely if I was in a water restriction area! Gotta love some German Construction, for sure. 

I think what we maybe can agree on is that Miele is the BMW of appliances, or maybe the Volkswagon, depending on which model, lol. And Speed Queen is the old American Muscle Car, or perhaps the Ford F250, lol. 

both have their purposes, and their admirers. And you don't want to try to haul hay in a BMW sedan. 

And that big box store appliances in the modern age suck eggs. That we can also agree with, lol. Get German made, or Wisconsin made, depending on your priorities, but not that other junk. 

If you owned a Miele washer (or had access to one) I think the difference in how gentle these machines are on clothes, while offering superior cleaning and at the same time conserving resources and being just as durable as SQs, would be very apparent. It is not subtle.

And to me, when one is in the position of doing the worst laundry jobs--like doing dirty cloth diapers--where I'd definitely want a Miele. They shine in the tough jobs. Haul hay.

We are not living in the 1950s anymore. 

Miele has the best of high technology combined with well-engineered reliability and employs quality parts. Just look at the drums on Speed Queens (enameled steel that will rust if chipped and with no thoughts given to preventing clothing wear, enhancing cleaning, or preventing so-called "moth holes") with the honeycomb stainless steel drums on the Miele. 

Bill

 

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I have gone to appliance stores looking for other types of appliances ( like kitchen ranges or dishwashers). I tell the salesperson “show me the Speed Queen of (dishwashers) and they immediately know that I want a workhorse that does it’s job well, is easy to repair and isn’t loaded with expensive bells and whistles that break within a year or two. Unfortunately the reply I get is “I know exactly what you mean but there are no (dishwasher) brands that will give you that”. 

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15 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I mean, I'm sure there are wires and capacitors connecting the motor to the timer, thermostat, and whatnot, but there isn't a circuit board in mine.  I specifically went looking for a washer that did not have an electronic control panel or circuit board.  The board is expensive to replace, to the point where you might as well just get a new machine.    

I looked up the parts list for my machine, and nope: no circuit boards in it. It's mechanical. 

I still have jeans and t shirts that I bought around the same time I bought the SQ. They aren't excessively worn or getting thrashed. 

I'm sure Miele's are nice machines, but they are $$$. Some of them are as much as $4,500.  There's no one around here that sells them or fixes them, so 🤷‍♀️

A basic Miele costs the same amount of money as a basic Speed Queen washer (around $1,100), but they deliver better results and offer more value for the dollar IMO.

There are downsides to appliances that only use mid-20th century technology that one pays for in wasting valuable natural resources and in rough clothes handling. Not good trade-offs for me.

Bill 

 

 

 

 

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Well I just tried to get the appliance store to tell me if there is someone locally who works on Miele washing machines and I was given a huge run around.  That was not reassuring.  Or surprising.

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3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I have gone to appliance stores looking for other types of appliances ( like kitchen ranges or dishwashers). I tell the salesperson “show me the Speed Queen of (dishwashers) and they immediately know that I want a workhorse that does it’s job well, is easy to repair and isn’t loaded with expensive bells and whistles that break within a year or two. Unfortunately the reply I get is “I know exactly what you mean but there are no (dishwasher) brands that will give you that”. 

I think what the sales people are hearing is that you'd like a dishwasher that compensates for outdated and retrograde technology by using/wasting massive amounts of water to make up for the inherent design flaws and lack of tech, and that's not a sustainable path forward.

The Speed Queen TC line really should not be on the market as in real world usage they fail to meet currently energy requirements and SQ evaded the rules by cheating.

Bill

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well I just tried to get the appliance store to tell me if there is someone locally who works on Miele washing machines and I was given a huge run around.  That was not reassuring.  Or surprising.

That was a problem I had. In my state there were only two locations, in the same general metro area and with shared ownership, that had anything to do with Miele laundry.

That would be fine if I never experienced a problem and could get it installed ourselves, but life has taught me to expect curve balls.

 

Maybe they will spread to more parts of the country over time.

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6 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I think what the sales people are hearing is that you'd like a dishwasher that compensates for outdated and retrograde technology by using/wasting massive amounts of water to make up for the inherent design flaws and lack of tech, and that's not a sustainable path forward.

The Speed Queen TC line really should not be on the market as in real world usage they fail to meet currently energy requirements and SQ evaded the rules by cheating.

Bill

 

 

No that’s not what they are hearing. They are smart enough to know that I want mechanical parts, no or at least less expensive computerized parts, good performance and durability. 

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6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well I just tried to get the appliance store to tell me if there is someone locally who works on Miele washing machines and I was given a huge run around.  That was not reassuring.  Or surprising.

I suggest you call Miele and ask directly if they have a service network in your area. I definitely would not get a washer that I could not get serviced easily, but I'd be highly surprised if Miele did not insist on having authorized service firmly in place wherever their machines are sold. In my experience they are very meticulous about such things. 

When you look at washers, evaluate the quality of the engineering. Examine the drums. Even on a visual level the machines look like they come from different centuries.

Then check out the real world reviews on longevity (where both are pretty unique these days in being machines one can expect to get 20 years from) and how well they preserve clothes and their efficiency with natural resources. 

Bill

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No that’s not what they are hearing. They are smart enough to know that I want mechanical parts, no or at least less expensive computerized parts, good performance and durability. 

Sorry Jean, but Speed Queens work only by wasting massive amounts of water to compensate for their obsolete technology. That is the reality.

And the company cheated to get the TCs back on the market. 

Bill

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Just now, Spy Car said:

Sorry Jean, but Speed Queens work only by wasting massive amounts of water to compensate for their obsolete technology. That is the reality.

And the company cheated to get the TCs back on the market. 

Bill

Bill. I have good reading skills. I know what you think and have written a bazillion times on this thread . I disagree from actual empirical evidence with my own machine. Repeating yourself more and more stridently isn’t going to get me (I don’t know about others) to agree with you. 
 

Enjoy your Miele. 

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7 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I suggest you call Miele and ask directly if they have a service network in your area.

Then before you buy, call the service place to triple check they truly will service your appliance at your location.  Not Miele but I've been burned in the past with promises that my appliance would be serviced and found that not to be the case when I've needed it. 

 

 

 

 

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