Jump to content

Menu

Relatives dying from Covid is much harder now that the vaccine is available.


Shelydon
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

That accusation made me think a lot about the idea of judgment and forgiveness and I've come to understand that we have a very superficial understanding of this. We leave out justice. I've been told so many times that as a Christian that I must forgive but I don't recall hearing much about justice being just as important. 

 

This whole post was interesting. The justice part stood out to me because Micah 6:8 has been foremost in my mind throughout this pandemic, as pandemic issues have swirled with politics have swirled with racial injustice:

And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
    and to walk humbly[a]with your God.

(We all have our weak points, and I think the walk humbly is one of mine, so that’s a work in progress.)

3 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

WRT masking - do they protect us or other people? Everyone seemed to agree that it was protecting others when this was big issue last year. Did it do much to protect us? 

They have had quite a few studies since the beginning of this year showing that while the largest effect from masks is on protecting others, they also provide significant protection to the wearer, with protection being proportional to how good the mask is and especially how it fits. Even with cloth masks, one that fits well-made of multiple layers can provide a  pretty significant degree of protection to the wearer. 

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Putting my comment in a separate post because it is important:
this study is bad statistics: they surveyed only 301 doctors. This is completely meaningless.

I expect this varies a lot from region to region. I live in a purple area with red on one side and blue on the other, yet have seen from local news that physicians in this area are almost all fully vaxed. Nurses have very high vax rates as well, with support staff  being the HCW most likely to not be vaccinated. 

1 hour ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Several doctors in my area do not recommend the vaccine for people who have recovered from covid - this is true in the entire nation of Israel, too, I believe. 

That’s not unreasonable in that case, though a single dose of vaccine for those with previous infection seems to give even better protection. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Editing to clear up the confusion. Didn’t mean not to cover Covid but was referring to special coverage wavers that we have enjoyed for Covid coverage. Maybe we incentivize people to get vaccinated by continuing to offer those wavers. (?)
 

Does anybody know how insurance companies are handling Covid claims? Some might find this mean, but i am hoping if Covid treatment isn’t covered for unvaccinated, it could be an incentive for some to get a shot? 

I think we need very strong local mandates. Anybody who wants to walk into a live classroom or a concert or fly should have a proof of vaccination. Obviously medics exceptions need to exist, but if we tightened up the demands, maybe, just maybe people will budge. (?)

 

Also there is a good article in Novavax. Yes, it’s protein based. 


 

The mRNA Vaccines Are Extraordinary, but Novavax Is Even Better

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619276/

Edited by Roadrunner
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

One thing I've noticed is that anti-vax people often claim that their physicians support their choices but I've never known a single anti-vax physician.

None of my doctors were anti-vacc.  They all wanted me to get it and were getting it themselves.  Also, I just remember how sad my pulmonologist was about the anti-vaccers.  I saw him in June.

Edited by TravelingChris
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

i am hoping if Covid treatment isn’t covered for unvaccinated, it could be an incentive for some to get a shot? 

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KSera said:

This whole post was interesting. The justice part stood out to me because Micah 6:8 has been foremost in my mind throughout this pandemic, as pandemic issues have swirled with politics have swirled with racial injustice:

And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
    and to walk humbly[a]with your God.

(We all have our weak points, and I think the walk humbly is one of mine, so that’s a work in progress.)

They have had quite a few studies since the beginning of this year showing that while the largest effect from masks is on protecting others, they also provide significant protection to the wearer, with protection being proportional to how good the mask is and especially how it fits. Even with cloth masks, one that fits well-made of multiple layers can provide a  pretty significant degree of protection to the wearer. 

I expect this varies a lot from region to region. I live in a purple area with red on one side and blue on the other, yet have seen from local news that physicians in this area are almost all fully vaxed. Nurses have very high vax rates as well, with support staff  being the HCW most likely to not be vaccinated. 

That’s not unreasonable in that case, though a single dose of vaccine for those with previous infection seems to give even better protection. 

I know when I got my first shot in March that one of the questions was whether you had COVID.  You had to be a minimum of 3 months out from recovery to get the shot.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Does anybody know how insurance companies are handling Covid claims? Some might find this mean, but i am hoping if Covid treatment isn’t covered for unvaccinated, it could be an incentive for some to get a shot? 

I think we need very strong local mandates. Anybody who wants to walk into a live classroom or a concert or fly should have a proof of vaccination. Obviously medics exceptions need to exist, but if we tightened up the demands, maybe, just maybe people will budge. (?)

 

Also there is a good article in Novavax. Yes, it’s protein based. 


 

The mRNA Vaccines Are Extraordinary, but Novavax Is Even Better

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619276/

I understand the sentiment here but this would send us all down a bad road. 

First, I'm not sure how this would be possible. What services would be "COVID treatments" and which would be something that related to COVID. 

Second, the hospitals still must treat the patients so lack of insurance would hurt the hospitals more than the patients anyway. If you have an emergency condition, an ER cannot turn you away under EMTALA. Hospitals don't have to treat every condition but most of these treatments would likely fall under EMTALA. 

Third, they would need to re-write benefit documents and there is required notice. And most people with commercial have coverage through an employer plan. 

And most importantly, where does it end? Do we deny coverage for heart disease if someone is obese? Deny coverage for cancer if the patient smoked or did any of the other things that we know are related to cancer? 

I can see higher insurance premiums for the unvaccinated. Many employers have higher premiums for smokers. I've heard discussion of higher premiums for people who are obese but I don't anyone has gone with that one. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

Last month, in a Facebook autoimmune disease group (not sure if Lupus, RA, or AS) that she now regrets all the fast food and junk food she ate since it caused her disease.  I pointed out that I got the disease without eating junk food or fast food.  My parents only took me to McDonald's once and never to any other fast food.  They didn't buy junk food either.  I was even kept away from desserts other than fruit except from special occasions.  My autoimmune was triggered by severe stress and genetics-my father died at 13 and my mom at 23.

  • Sad 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I understand the sentiment here but this would send us all down a bad road. 

First, I'm not sure how this would be possible. What services would be "COVID treatments" and which would be something that related to COVID. 

Second, the hospitals still must treat the patients so lack of insurance would hurt the hospitals more than the patients anyway. If you have an emergency condition, an ER cannot turn you away under EMTALA. Hospitals don't have to treat every condition but most of these treatments would likely fall under EMTALA. 

Third, they would need to re-write benefit documents and there is required notice. And most people with commercial have coverage through an employer plan. 

And most importantly, where does it end? Do we deny coverage for heart disease if someone is obese? Deny coverage for cancer if the patient smoked or did any of the other things that we know are related to cancer? 

I can see higher insurance premiums for the unvaccinated. Many employers have higher premiums for smokers. I've heard discussion of higher premiums for people who are obese but I don't anyone has gone with that one. 

All good points.

I am improvising and trying to see what we can do to incentivize people. My understanding was insurance was picking up all the costs before of illness due to Covid. And again, I am not 100% sure here, but I remember thinking how great it was (my deductible for a family is $25k) I wouldn’t be in debt just in case. So have they reverted back to “normal” coverage? I don’t know what is happening honestly, but if we were giving something special to Covid patients, maybe those specials should be targeted at vaccinated? 

I do 100% agree with you though overall.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/17/2021 at 5:35 PM, Shelydon said:

For Covid pre-vaccine-- some people definitely chose a lifestyle that led to their illness and ultimately their death. I had friends and acquaintances who either got very sick or passed away after attending church or other larger gatherings unmasked. They knew that they had a strong possibility of getting sick, as they told me they were " choosing to live life." Other friends got it from doing their job as healthcare providers, or my elderly relatives got it from their nursing home through no fault of their own.   NOW-- everyone over the age of 12 can choose to be vaccinated and therefore choose not to get exceptionally ill or die. 99.7 percent of the death  and hospitalizations in my area are unvaccinated individuals. For me personally, it is harder to deal with relatives getting sick and dying because they are refusing to vaccinate than it was for those who were just refused to mask or inadvertently caught the virus through no fault of their own. 

And then there are people like my dad...locked away for 10 months with no contact with anyone at all, except staff members who were wearing masks. And yet, he died of Covid at the end of January, after getting vaccinated. Someone can do 100% right, and die anyway.

Of course, the staff member who gave it to him should know how many people she killed. I have been told it was one staff member and three people dead on his hallway that she worked on. (he was not on a big hallway and others died throughout the facility).

 

Edited to add: my dad spent his last Thanksgiving, last Christmas, and last New Years, totally alone. Same for Easter 2020, July 4, etc. All of that time alone, isolated. And he was only in senior living, not a nursing home. I have no faith in the government at all.

Edited by Janeway
  • Sad 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

I realize badly worded ideas are bad. 🤣🤣🤣

So no, I didn’t mean that. I was just under the impression that we were covering 100% of Covid as opposed to what insurance regularly covers, so what I wanted to say maybe we should continue offering that 100% coverage to those who are vaccinated and still get sick. And I realize that my understanding that 100% was covered light not be exactly right. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I understand the sentiment here but this would send us all down a bad road. 

And most importantly, where does it end? Do we deny coverage for heart disease if someone is obese? Deny coverage for cancer if the patient smoked or did any of the other things that we know are related to cancer?

Yes. I think we start down a very dangerous slippery slope when we start denying coverage to people who make poor health decisions. And then do we deny coverage for someone who was in, say, a skiing accident? Don't they know skiing can be dangerous?? 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

All good points.

I am improvising and trying to see what we can do to incentivize people. My understanding was insurance was picking up all the costs before of illness due to Covid. And again, I am not 100% sure here, but I remember thinking how great it was (my deductible for a family is $25k) I wouldn’t be in debt just in case. So have they reverted back to “normal” coverage? I don’t know what is happening honestly, but if we were giving something special to Covid patients, maybe those specials should be targeted at vaccinated? 

I do 100% agree with you though overall.

You’re correct that the public Health emergency declaration meant that a bunch of Covid related services were provided with no co-pay and were not subject to deductible. A bunch of that actually expires tomorrow, on July 19. While I don’t think that people who didn’t get vaccinated should not be covered by insurance, even though I am really upset that their decisions are harming and killing so many people and are not allowing this pandemic to end, I do think your idea makes sense, that the waiver could continue to apply to those who are vaccinated or with some other exemption, but not to those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to.

having looked up what date those waivers end actually has me wondering what’s happening with the mental health teletherapy benefits we’ve been using. According to what I was reading, those provisions end tomorrow as well. I’ve heard nothing about that or about needing to go back in person. That would really be problematic, as my dd’s therapist moved to the opposite end of the state!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

^^^This^^^ I don't get it. At all. My daughter in law is a nurse and works in a hospital. She works with several nurses who are anti-vax. It doesn't make sense that people in the health care field should ignore the science and fall into the anti-vax trap.

I think it is that they don’t bother to look at and know the science. That has certainly been my experience talking to the ones I know. It is so startlingly clear that vaccines work to prevent serious illness, that I think some of them are starting to get the truth. Around here strong political views seem to be a barrier to looking at facts with an open mind, for some people.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

Nobody is calling for anyone to not be treated. Paying for the consequences of their choice is what is being proposed. None of your comparisons are really valid due to choosing not to have a covid vaccine having a much greater impact on others. And insurance companies, including both mine and my husband’s, already charge lower premiums for non-smokers.
 

My sister previously lived in a country with universal healthcare. No one was denied treatment, but sometimes the patient had to pay if for example the injuries were the result if their negligence. During the time she was there one of my coworkers sustained some injuries due to stupid behavior while drunk. She gave that as an example of when someone would be treated but then billed for treatment.

That’s what people are talking about here. Someone medically fine to receive the vaccine chooses not to and ends up hospitalized with covid. They are billed rather than insurance covering it since they had free access to a preventative and chose not to use it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

From my experience there is not a lot of logicical thinking being undertaken by the anti vax, conspiracy crowd. I have looked at every single thing, the people I know in this group, have posted on social media and much of the time there is no evidence presented, and even when there is, a thorough research shows it to be incorrect. I had no idea so many people didn’t know how to think logically! It has been shocking!

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

And more and more, the selfishness in this country, especially on the part of professing Christians, just blows my mind. And also the willingness to equate misinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theories with facts, and the call to treat them as just a difference of opinion.

  • Like 7
  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think, early on, that the big health insurance companies were waiving cost-sharing for Covid treatment (or what I would call co-pays).  This was interesting:

https://www.wbtv.com/2021/05/03/good-question-does-your-insurance-cover-hospital-bills-long-covid-hospitalization-stays/

Research by FAIR Health has found the average cost for a hospital stay for COVID ranges from $51,000 to $78,000.

As for who pays, it really depends.

In a study released in November, it found that 88 percent of people with insurance had policies that waived payments during the pandemic.

But, nothing lasts forever.

All of these hospital and treatment waivers were voluntary so insurance companies can lift those whenever they choose.

That’s what some of them are doing now.

For example, Anthem stopped its waivers in January. Aetna’s expired in February. United Health stopped at the end of March.

So it really comes down to who your provider is.

ADVER
Edited by DoraBora
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KSera said:

While I don’t think that people who didn’t get vaccinated should not be covered by insurance, even though I am really upset that their decisions are harming and killing so many people and are not allowing this pandemic to end, I do think your idea makes sense, that the waiver could continue to apply to those who are vaccinated or with some other exemption, but not to those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to.

I agree. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please don't quote. 

A dad from our homeschool co-op is very ill right now.  He was sick at home and went via ambulance to the hospital.  This was in late June. 

His Covid journey has been eerily similar to so many others I've read about.  One day he seemed better.  The next day he was about to crash and they let his family in to say goodbye.  Today he rallied, but now his O2 levels are in the 80s again.  He's sedated and still on a ventilator.

His wife, who is truly a lovely woman, asks on FB for prayer.  She shares his ups and downs.  I feel for her -- it is just horrible and so sad.

I strongly suspect this man was not immunized.  It's just a guess.  If he had taken the vaccine, what are the odds that he would be this ill?  Wouldn't his wife be complaining that he had been vaccinated and shouldn't be so sick?  But instead of urging the many who are following their story and praying for her husband and family to be vaccinated, she is now saying his current condition isn't even Covid related.  His troubles are a result of the treatments.  He doesn't even have Covid anymore.

I don't really have a point here.  I just don't understand people anymore.  Of course, I would never argue with her.  It would be too unkind.  Besides, where would I even start? 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 24
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/17/2021 at 5:26 PM, happysmileylady said:

I tried.   I tried to let it go.

 

 

Tell me please.....what could have prevented my situation. 

 

Please...............tell me exactly what more I could have done. 

I am so so sorry.

I have all sorts of complicated feelings, that I keep trying to put into a post and failing because I can't be coherent.

But I can't not respond to this.  No one deserves what happened to you or your family.  No one deserves to die from this terrible virus.  This didn't happen because you did something wrong.  It happened because covid is a terrible thing.  

I am so sorry if people, or if I, have made you feel differently.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I do think your idea makes sense, that the waiver could continue to apply to those who are vaccinated or with some other exemption, but not to those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to.

Insurance companies are For-profit corporations and whether they continue to provide waivers to unvaccinated people for Covid hospitalizations might be something that has already been decided by these corporations. If the average cost of a hospitalization for covid is upwards of $30,000 I think that the writing is clear on the wall as to how insurance billing policies for Covid hospitalization will trend in the upcoming months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

^^^This^^^ I don't get it. At all. My daughter in law is a nurse and works in a hospital. She works with several nurses who are anti-vax. It doesn't make sense that people in the health care field should ignore the science and fall into the anti-vax trap.

I've met some health care workers who were anti on the mRNA covid vax. Do you think these people are anti *all* vax or only the mRNA? I'm just wondering (and anecdotes would suffice) whether a shot that is more like the flu shot (which the novamax appears to be) will be differently received. Had they previously taken the flu shot or had they usually refused that too?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

Insurance companies are For-profit corporations and whether they continue to provide waivers to unvaccinated people for Covid hospitalizations might be something that has already been decided by these corporations. If the average cost of a hospitalization for covid is upwards of $30,000 I think that the writing is clear on the wall as to how insurance billing policies for Covid hospitalization will trend in the upcoming months.

I think either way could be argued. Because people not getting vaccinated is going to cost insurance companies WAY more than if vaccinated people weren’t cost sharing. Since most hospitalizations are in the unvaccinated, and almost all ICU patients are unvaccinated, that’s what’s going to be so expensive, and if knowing they would no longer be off the hook for co-pays convinced more people to get vaccinated, I think that would save a lot more money than it would cost. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

Insurance companies are For-profit corporations and whether they continue to provide waivers to unvaccinated people for Covid hospitalizations might be something that has already been decided by these corporations. If the average cost of a hospitalization for covid is upwards of $30,000 I think that the writing is clear on the wall as to how insurance billing policies for Covid hospitalization will trend in the upcoming months.

Not all insurance companies are for profit. Most of the independent blues are not for profit, for example. 

Also, most of us with an employer group health plan are in self funded plan swhich means the expenses are actually paid by our employer, not the insurance company. The insurance company provides the network and administers the benefits. 

IIRC most of the hospitalizations prior to the vaccine were in the elderly population so those costs would have been covered by Medicare. Now that many elderly people are vaccinated and the age of the hospitalized decreases, employer groups and insurance companies will bear more of the costs. Which they will, of course, pass along to the rest of us with increased premiums in 2022. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Also, most of us with an employer group health plan are in self funded plan swhich means the expenses are actually paid by our employer, not the insurance company. The insurance company provides the network and administers the benefits.

Am I right to assume that HIPPA means there’s no way an employer would know which employees were costing them more money? We’ve had an expensive year, and it’s one of those things that worries me 😳

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Am I right to assume that HIPPA means there’s no way an employer would know which employees were costing them more money? We’ve had an expensive year, and it’s one of those things that worries me 😳

I think it depends on the circumstances.

Certainly, my husband's employer was able to figure out that our kid was costing them a small fortune. But if your issues aren't as visible, you might be safe.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Am I right to assume that HIPPA means there’s no way an employer would know which employees were costing them more money? We’ve had an expensive year, and it’s one of those things that worries me 😳

Unfortunately no, I don't think you can assume that. 

My experience is that large employers set up a system such that they don't know. It could be a liability. If you fire an employees who uses lots of healthcare resources, that could be discrimination. 

But I think that smaller employers sometimes do know these things. Reinsurance also plays a part here. If the expenses are extremely expense, like with a transplant, the reinsurer actually pays not the employer. 

I can't say much but I have some knowledge of employers who have done shady things because they had employees with very expensive healthcare needs. 

If it helps, what you think of as expensive probably isn't that expensive to your employer. 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, regentrude said:

I disagree. Social distancing and masking have been extremely effective. At my university we have been in person during fall and spring, and the Covid numbers were much smaller than in the community, despite the fact that college students live in dorms - because we had a mask and distancing requirement on campus! No cases have originated during classes (masked, 6 ft between seats); all of the few infections stemmed from social activities where masking/distancing was not enforced.

Yes. No cases derived from distanced and masked attendance at classes at the university where I work either.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, KSera said:

Am I right to assume that HIPPA means there’s no way an employer would know which employees were costing them more money? We’ve had an expensive year, and it’s one of those things that worries me 😳

HR knows for the most part. Really expensive stuff usually needs FMLA leave and that requires documentation.  It’s hard to hide a 30 day ICU stay from COVID or time off for heart transplant.  Hippa doesn’t prevent anyone from knowing.  It prevents them from sharing what they know with outside entities.  
 

Edited by HeartString
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Not all insurance companies are for profit. Most of the independent blues are not for profit, for example. 

 

That is truly a joke=  look up ALabama Blue Cross.   It hasn't changed since it was one of the highlights of President Obama's push for the ACA.

And Tricare isn't for profit- really- but is always under pressure to limit costs.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/17/2021 at 11:29 AM, regentrude said:

Unfortunately, experiencing severe illness and death of persons close to them will be the only thing that will get many people to take Covid seriously. Seeing it across the globe and country in the news didn't make it seem real. It has to be their immediate community and family.

In some sense, that's our only hope for this pandemic to end: it will have to get much worse first. Until the Covid deniers have a rude awakening. Sadly, by that time they will have caused the deaths of many folks who did everything imaginable to keep safe .

 Doubtful.

we Lost someone to covid and had to fight the “no large public funeral” battle for that person. 

  • Sad 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, lewelma said:

Here, both the border workers and people in the Defence Force will be *fired* if they are not vaccinated. In these jobs, if workers are not vaccinated, they you don't have the skills to do the job because one of the skills is that you don't transmit covid from the border to the community. 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/441728/more-border-workers-could-lose-jobs-for-not-getting-vaccinated

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-defence-force-service-members-told-to-get-vaccinated-or-face-being-fired/D35WGCFPGWITEIFLLV6DYDDPZQ/

The US military is gearing up to require vaccines this fall too. I’ve heard from at least one senior (O6) officer spouse who declared (methinks prematurely) that her DH would retire if this happened. They have three kids under 10 in a HCOL area. The mandate is expected w/in the next 3 months. He’s not retiring before getting jabbed and maintaining the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to would be very difficult if he did. I didn’t say that, lol, but was muted for pointing out that the military doesn’t care about your fee fees (although I was more politic than that, lol). Facts are facts. DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too. Locally, the results of vaccination are clear and stark.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
 

Edited by Sneezyone
  • Like 17
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I've met some health care workers who were anti on the mRNA covid vax. Do you think these people are anti *all* vax or only the mRNA? I'm just wondering (and anecdotes would suffice) whether a shot that is more like the flu shot (which the novamax appears to be) will be differently received. Had they previously taken the flu shot or had they usually refused that too?

Some healthcare workers get in a snit about the flu shot too. For some reason, the flu shot is frequently controversial too. The anti-flu shot stuff is almost always from anti-vaxxers, but it's more filtered, like when people spout things that are from QAnon, but they don't know it. It's often from "health influencers" that people follow because they've researched something specific to them, like being gluten intolerant. (As an aside, shame on those in the medical community who are constantly deriding "unnecessary" lifestyle changes that people adopt because they genuinely feel better; those attitudes drive people to misleading sites a lot of the time. Is GF sometimes a fad? Yes. Do some people feel extraordinarily better GF anyway? Yes.)

That said, how you frame your concerns is part of the equation. If a nurse is badmouthing it (without evidence) or posting flippant derogatory memes that lean political, or going to the store "vaccinated" (meaning unmasked even when the mandate was in place), does it really matter what the reasoning is? It's propaganda to keep people on your non-evidence based side.

We have a lot of data on the vaccines at this point. 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too.

Dh works on a military installation. If they don't want to mask, they have to carry their Covid vaccine cards with them as proof of vaccination.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

The US military is gearing up to require vaccines this fall too. I’ve heard from at least one senior (O6) officer spouse who declared (methinks prematurely) that her DH would retire if this happened. They have three kids under 10 in a HCOL area. The mandate is expected w/in the next 3 months. He’s not retiring before getting jabbed and maintaining the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to would be very difficult if he did. I didn’t say that, lol, but was muted for pointing out that the military doesn’t care about your fee fees (although I was more politic than that, lol). Facts are facts. DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too. Locally, the results of vaccination are clear and stark.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
 

I have two Coast Guard families and I had the impression that vaccination was required once they had it available to administer-it just took until late Spring before they had enough vaccine to administer on base. I know that one reason why both stayed remote until this summer was because they were required to list exposure risks, and by doing piano remote and homeschooling, it lowered the risk enough to allow the kids to do something else that really needed to be in person (gymnastics, dance, soccer, etc). 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

Dh works on a military installation. If they don't want to mask, they have to carry their Covid vaccine cards with them as proof of vaccination.

It’s currently up to base commanders (whether to require proof) but that discretion is being quietly removed due to holdouts in low vax areas.

41 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I have two Coast Guard families and I had the impression that vaccination was required once they had it available to administer-it just took until late Spring before they had enough vaccine to administer on base. I know that one reason why both stayed remote until this summer was because they were required to list exposure risks, and by doing piano remote and homeschooling, it lowered the risk enough to allow the kids to do something else that really needed to be in person (gymnastics, dance, soccer, etc). 

 

The lowest vax rates are among Marines. They are comfy with much higher risks as a function of their jobs than other branches but they also tend to be even more…special in their thinking. That doesn’t mean the military will accept their discomfort as a reason to leave its assets unprotected tho. Like it or not, this is about dollars and cents. The costs of testing, quarantine, long-covid, and death are high and impact readiness. That’s not a popular opinion in the spouse community and I suspect it reflects national trends. 🤷🏽‍♀️It’s hard to hear but I remember the same thing happening over the mandatory Anthrax vax they got during the gulf war years.

Edited by Sneezyone
  • Like 12
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

The US military is gearing up to require vaccines this fall too. I’ve heard from at least one senior (O6) officer spouse who declared (methinks prematurely) that her DH would retire if this happened. They have three kids under 10 in a HCOL area. The mandate is expected w/in the next 3 months. He’s not retiring before getting jabbed and maintaining the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to would be very difficult if he did. I didn’t say that, lol, but was muted for pointing out that the military doesn’t care about your fee fees (although I was more politic than that, lol). Facts are facts. DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too. Locally, the results of vaccination are clear and stark.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
 

Yeah, you don't want to retire so fast.  Dh (also an 06) decided in fall of 13 that he was going to retire in late spring of 14) and that gave him enough time to transition well and end up getting a better lifestyle (and more income) than before.  But dh is STEM and what you did before can make all the difference in how much you make in civilian life.

I think that COVID vaccines will become mandatory once we get rid of emergency authorization (this is in the military but I also think it may become so not just for military but also military installations- like civilians and contractors who work in military facilities. )  

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TravelingChris said:

I was asking dh when his giant complex will open up to work full time and he said it is closed until September at least.

DH's company is similar. Right now, the central office is mostly closed, with only a few people working in person, and most of the non-US offices are closed. DH is remote anyway, but we had kind of expected him to be able to go into the office next month since we'll be in the city to move L into a college dorm, and I want to stay close for a few days after classes start just to make sure everything is going OK. But it's looking like he may end up working remotely from a rental house instead. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dmmetler said:

DH's company is similar. Right now, the central office is mostly closed, with only a few people working in person, and most of the non-US offices are closed. DH is remote anyway, but we had kind of expected him to be able to go into the office next month since we'll be in the city to move L into a college dorm, and I want to stay close for a few days after classes start just to make sure everything is going OK. But it's looking like he may end up working remotely from a rental house instead. 

 

 

Well my dh probably shouldn't be working remotely because he can't do all that much remotely.  But he also told me that in reality, his going in a few times a week for a few hours seems to be about all he really needs.  He is just so happy that he isn't wasting time on endless meetings.  DH works at a military agency.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/17/2021 at 11:31 AM, Farrar said:

I'm very dubious that people who refused any of the options so far will take the Novamax. Like, maybe a tiny handful, but not a significant percentage.

I also find it hard. And I find it especially hard that so many people I know who are usually compassionate and kind are reaching a breaking point where they don't care and think the people who refuse to get vaccinated deserve what they get. There's a part of me that feels that way too, but the suffering is so big. I don't want to feel that way. They've been misled by conspiracy theories and hatred.

My sister wouldn't get the Pfizer of Moderna vax, because the technology is too new for her comfort. She was on her way to get vaccinated with her daughter when she got a call from someone who told her the vaccines would cause infertility. She has told me that she thinks she is going to die if she gets those vaccines, and that she is going to die from Covid because she's unvaccinated. She is waiting for Novamax because that vaccine technology is already in use. I don't know what I can say to change her mind, so I can only tell her to be safe and mask up. But she goes out to eat with other unvaccinated friends, goes to parties, etc. I'm full of worry for her, so I will be very happy if Novamax becomes available, because I don't see her changing her mind on the other vaccines.

  • Sad 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, dsmith said:

My sister wouldn't get the Pfizer of Moderna vax, because the technology is too new for her comfort. She was on her way to get vaccinated with her daughter when she got a call from someone who told her the vaccines would cause infertility. She has told me that she thinks she is going to die if she gets those vaccines, and that she is going to die from Covid because she's unvaccinated. She is waiting for Novamax because that vaccine technology is already in use. I don't know what I can say to change her mind, so I can only tell her to be safe and mask up. But she goes out to eat with other unvaccinated friends, goes to parties, etc. I'm full of worry for her, so I will be very happy if Novamax becomes available, because I don't see her changing her mind on the other vaccines.

J and J is not new technology.  OH and something you may want to tell her is that people are surviving cancer now because of new technology-- JImmy Carter is still alive.  There is new technology all the time in medicine.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, dsmith said:

My sister wouldn't get the Pfizer of Moderna vax, because the technology is too new for her comfort. She was on her way to get vaccinated with her daughter when she got a call from someone who told her the vaccines would cause infertility. She has told me that she thinks she is going to die if she gets those vaccines, and that she is going to die from Covid because she's unvaccinated. She is waiting for Novamax because that vaccine technology is already in use. I don't know what I can say to change her mind, so I can only tell her to be safe and mask up. But she goes out to eat with other unvaccinated friends, goes to parties, etc. I'm full of worry for her, so I will be very happy if Novamax becomes available, because I don't see her changing her mind on the other vaccines.

Your sister seems to have some extreme anxiety over the vaccines and covid.  Which makes it odd that she would then behave in a way known to increase risk.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...