At what point would you lock down again?

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah ... this may surprise some people here, but I don't understand "careful people" doing fun travel right now.  I mean how do you do that without sharing germs?  Unless you are driving a camper van, you're not only sharing but potentially spreading.  Is it worth it?  Why not just wait?

I am an avid traveler, and I haven't been on a plane since April 2019, nor do I have any plans.  I hate this.  My kids hate it.  But I can't justify that kind of activity in my mind.

And if going to a hot spot, the chances of catching it and then being stuck there are too high. You can't get back on a plane to fly home if you are sick with Covid!

[TexasProud]

Well I am currently traveling. I cannot be isolated anymore. My husband leaves to go to Africa in October for 3 months. I am not waiting. Now we are driving a 5 th wheel. I have masked and gone into stores to get ice.  We have been all by ourselves when we  go on hikes. 

When I return I will attend church in a mask despite the fact no one else does because that is my only interaction at the present tome. I may go to church functions be cause I will be so lonely. I cannot stay in my house all by myself.  

[Laura Corin]

The university where I  work hasn't mandated vaccines, but the self-declared vaccination rate is 97 percent with one dose and 73 fully vaccinated - including J and J. Some of those will be Chinese vaccines, but I'm still happy with the numbers. There isn't any benefit to lying about vaccination  - we are all wearing masks anyway.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Matryoshka]

9 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Well I am currently traveling. I cannot be isolated anymore. My husband leaves to go to Africa in October for 3 months. I am not waiting. Now we are driving a 5 th wheel. I have masked and gone into stores to get ice.  We have been all by ourselves when we  go on hikes. 

When I return I will attend church in a mask despite the fact no one else does because that is my only interaction at the present tome. I may go to church functions be cause I will be so lonely. I cannot stay in my house all by myself.  

I think if you're going to travel right now, an RV is the way to go.  My friend went all over the country this summer in an RV, but she did say things changed in the last month when the Delta wave hit.  Then she came back and started teaching high school - got a call about a kid in her class with Covid (her masked, him unmasked) on the first day...

But I wouldn't get on a plane unless I absolutely had to...

I'm going to church in person when we 'come back' after summer next week, but fortunately we'll all be masking.   

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Well I am currently traveling. I cannot be isolated anymore. My husband leaves to go to Africa in October for 3 months. I am not waiting. Now we are driving a 5 th wheel. I have masked and gone into stores to get ice.  We have been all by ourselves when we  go on hikes. 

When I return I will attend church in a mask despite the fact no one else does because that is my only interaction at the present tome. I may go to church functions be cause I will be so lonely. I cannot stay in my house all by myself.  

I think there is a big difference between that and flying to a theme park where you will be elbow to elbow with people, eating indoors unmasked 3 meals a day, etc like some are doing. 

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I think there is a big difference between that and flying to a theme park where you will be elbow to elbow with people, eating indoors unmasked 3 meals a day, etc like some are doing. 

while I completely agree, and wouldn't do any such thing, there's not much difference between being elbow to elbow with people in a theme park vs having your kids elbow to elbow with other kids in classrooms and school cafeterias...

I am not setting foot on a plane (even though I have urgent need to travel overseas for family reasons) or attending any cultural events. But I can see how, at this point, someone else can come to the conclusion that it's futile to forgo things since they're going to get infected anyway through the school.
 

Edited September 3, 2021 by regentrude

[mommyoffive]

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

As someone who took her cat's antihistamine last night, I have little room to judge on using animal meds. But for crying out loud, I took the right dosage!!!! (and it is exactly the same thing, same pills, as the human one, I was just out of human antihistamines, lol)

That and boosters.  I want my kids vaccinated, and I want boosters for my mom and dad. I will also want them for DH and I, but the big deal is my mom and dad for that. 

I'm praying daily that we can do a regular Christmas with the whole extended family. By that point, God willing, all the cousins will be vaccinated, and mom and dad at least will be boostered, if not all the adults. At that point, I'm not worried about the damn virus. I'll mask in areas indoors if hospitals are overwhelmed, but that's it. 

I used to know this..off to google. 

Wow, I didn't know that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

14 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Wow, I didn't know that.

I am more surprised from a dosage standpoint.  I would have to take 20 of my cat's pills (different med but also a human med) in order to get an appropriate dosage for my size. 

[mommyoffive]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Yeah ... this may surprise some people here, but I don't understand "careful people" doing fun travel right now.  I mean how do you do that without sharing germs?  Unless you are driving a camper van, you're not only sharing but potentially spreading.  Is it worth it?  Why not just wait?

I am an avid traveler, and I haven't been on a plane since April 2019, nor do I have any plans.  I hate this.  My kids hate it.  But I can't justify that kind of activity in my mind.

We traveled once since this whole thing started. But that was at the very start of summer when things were looking good.  Dh and I were fully vaxxed and our 2 older ones were half vaxxed.  We did Airbnbs the whole time but one day.  Very careful masked everywhere we went.  We cooked all our own food.  Everything we did was outside. And we drove

At this point I would travel to other red states because now mine is.  But I would be mindful of how I was going to get home if sick.  But yeah I couldn't travel to a state that is doing horrible right now.  With no room in hospitals. Even if I already had covid I would worry about something else happening and not being able to get help.

I think there are a lot of people who feel safe vaccinated, have already had it, have given up because you know you are just going to get Delta, or that have stayed home so long they feel they need to do things.  And then there are they people who don't believe in it at all or think it isn't serious.  

Even though they say airline travel isn't risky, it is a lot of contact.  But if you are working and going to school you are getting lots of contact too.  

I feel like I am almost in the giving up stage.  When this started I thought if we were so careful we could avoid it.  Now I don't think that is the case.  I am hoping that we don't get it until my younger 3 are vaccinated.  We are doing things because we need to for mental health and happiness.  And even doing the things we need to do like the ortho where nobody was masking with a huge open room with all the people being seen.  Or dh's work.  Dh has to travel and go to a huge conference.  I am so upset that he has to go, but there it is.  They didn't have to travel for over a year.  

I don't know.  

[ktgrok]

21 minutes ago, regentrude said:

while I completely agree, and wouldn't do any such thing, there's not much difference between being elbow to elbow with people in a theme park vs having your kids elbow to elbow with other kids in classrooms and school cafeterias...

I am not setting foot on a plane (even though I have urgent need to travel overseas for family reasons) or attending any cultural events. But I can see how, at this point, someone else can come to the conclusion that it's futile to forgo things since they're going to get infected anyway through the school.
 

I suppose the difference to me is that one is optional and one isn't, for most. also, if your kid comes down with Covid from school you quarantine at home. If it is half a country away you are paying for a hotel, etc and having to deal with changing flights for the next 10 days or so. Plus trying to access medical care in an unfamiliar place. And trying to isolate that family member, when in a hotel, may be even more difficult. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I am more surprised from a dosage standpoint.  I would have to take 20 of my cat's pills (different med but also a human med) in order to get an appropriate dosage for my size. 

It depends on the medication. I had chlorpheniramine on hand for my cat - same as human stuff. Just have to adjust dosage. Cat takes 1/2 a pill, humans take 1 tablet, dogs take more than humans (by weight). I once took 2, as I was so used to giving my big pit bull mix 2 at a time. I was OUT for hours, lol. I realized what I'd done right after swallowing and told my mom, "if you need anything from me, you have about 20 minutes...then I'm going to be asleep for the next few hours". 

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I suppose the difference to me is that one is optional and one isn't, for most. also, if your kid comes down with Covid from school you quarantine at home. If it is half a country away you are paying for a hotel, etc and having to deal with changing flights for the next 10 days or so. Plus trying to access medical care in an unfamiliar place. And trying to isolate that family member, when in a hotel, may be even more difficult. 

Bahaha - I don't for a moment believe folks are actually quarantining and not flying when they get Covid away from home. They would not test. They would just get on the plane. Call me cynical. I have not seen anything that would make me believe otherwise. 
If people send their kids to school with positive tests, why would they give crap about strangers in an airplane?
I think most folks have given up on doing anything to mitigate covid spread, and we're a minority of sorry hermits in N-95 masks.

Edited September 3, 2021 by regentrude

[KSera]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

I, too, have been singing in choirs for 40 years, and in my current one for close to 20. But I am sitting this season out, too - they're trying to make it as safe as possible,  using two rehearsal spaces and mandating singing masks, but it's a hard No for me right now.

I don't have a choice about my job exposure,  but I am cutting down on everything else that I can control.

What’s a singing mask?

[regentrude]

Just now, KSera said:

What’s a singing mask?

I have no idea, since I have not been attending choir during the pandemic. Presumably some kind of special mask in which one can sing?

[KSera]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Yeah ... this may surprise some people here, but I don't understand "careful people" doing fun travel right now.  I mean how do you do that without sharing germs?  Unless you are driving a camper van, you're not only sharing but potentially spreading.  Is it worth it?  Why not just wait?

I am an avid traveler, and I haven't been on a plane since April 2019, nor do I have any plans.  I hate this.  My kids hate it.  But I can't justify that kind of activity in my mind.

We've done two trips where we drove straight to our destination about two hours away, brought all our food, and stayed in an airbnb. That felt like a safe way to do it and gave us the opportunity to feel like we'd had some kind of time away.

11 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

It depends on the medication. I had chlorpheniramine on hand for my cat - same as human stuff. Just have to adjust dosage. Cat takes 1/2 a pill, humans take 1 tablet, dogs take more than humans (by weight). I once took 2, as I was so used to giving my big pit bull mix 2 at a time. I was OUT for hours, lol. I realized what I'd done right after swallowing and told my mom, "if you need anything from me, you have about 20 minutes...then I'm going to be asleep for the next few hours". 

Yikes, Katie! This is how people are getting in trouble with ivermectin! 😉

[ktgrok]

Just now, KSera said:

We've done two trips where we drove straight to our destination about two hours away, brought all our food, and stayed in an airbnb. That felt like a safe way to do it and gave us the opportunity to feel like we'd had some kind of time away.

Yikes, Katie! This is how people are getting in trouble with ivermectin! 😉

Well, in my defense it was a bottle of human antihistamine that time, lol. I just was so used to dosing my dog with it I gave myself the same dose. Oops! (I also once took her Xanax...at a big family thanksgiving dinner...while pregnant.....fun times, or so I'm told as i don't remember any of it)

 

[historically accurate]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

What’s a singing mask?

Singing Masks: https://noteablemask.com or https://www.broadwayreliefproject.com/singersmask

 

 

 

[Danae]

7 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I have no idea, since I have not been attending choir during the pandemic. Presumably some kind of special mask in which one can sing?

They have more fabric at the chin to allow a greater range of jaw movement without gaping and boning or other stiffeners to keep the fabric from getting sucked into your mouth on a  quick inhale.

[mommyoffive]

CDC Finds Over 83 Percent of Americans Had COVID Antibodies Before Delta Surge (msn.com)

[KSera]

28 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, in my defense it was a bottle of human antihistamine that time, lol. I just was so used to dosing my dog with it I gave myself the same dose. Oops! (I also once took her Xanax...at a big family thanksgiving dinner...while pregnant.....fun times, or so I'm told as i don't remember any of it)

 

😱 One of my fears is that I will accidentally take my 19yo's heavy duty medication, because I am the one who gives it to her each day, and I get it out right after I take my nightly supplements, and I'm so afraid I'll be on autopilot and accidentally put it in my mouth and take a swig of water before I've realized what I've done. I never have, but it's a big fear. I try to make myself snap out of autopilot mode when I'm doing it so that won't happen.

[mommyoffive]

Pediatric hospitalizations: Some important news today - by Katelyn Jetelina - Your Local Epidemiologist (substack.com)

 Scientists looked at pediatric hospitalizations from March 1, 2020–August 14, 2021. What did they find?

• The cumulative number of COVID19 hospitalization was 49.7 per 100,000 kids

  • Rates were highest among children aged 0–4 years (69.2 per 100,000) and adolescents aged 12–17 years (63.7 per 100,000)

  • Rates were lowest among children aged 5–11 years (24.0 per 100,000)

• Among pediatric COVID19 hospitalizations, 26.5% were admitted to an ICU, 6.1% required ventilation, and 0.7% of the children died

The rate of hospitalizations has dramatically increased in the past month

• Pediatric hospitalization rates are 5 times higher in August compared to June

  • The biggest increase was among 0–4 year olds, with a COVID-19 hospitalization rate 10 times higher in August compared to June

• The hospitalization rate among unvaccinated adolescents (aged 12–17 years) was 10 times higher than that among fully vaccinated adolescents

• But, this isn’t because Delta is more severe

  To assess severity of Delta compared to previous variants, hospitalizations were split up into two time periods: before Delta (March 1, 2020–June 19, 2021) and after Delta (June 20–July 31, 2021).

• The rate in which kids died, were admitted to the ICU, needed oxygen, or ventilation was not statistically different during Delta compared to before Delta:

  • Before Delta: 26.5% were admitted to an ICU, 6.1% required ventilation, and 0.7% died

  • After Delta: 23.2% were admitted to an ICU, 9.8% required ventilation, and 1.8% died

• So, Delta is not more severe for kids. Increasing pediatric hospitalization rates are due to high transmission in the community.

 

Hospitalizations Associated with COVID-19 Among Children and Adolescents — COVID-NET, 14 States, March 1, 2020–August 14, 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

 

Trends in COVID-19 Cases, Emergency Department Visits, and Hospital Admissions Among Children and Adolescents Aged 0–17 Years — United States, August 2020–August 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

Edited September 3, 2021 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

Coronavirus Today: What it's like to die from COVID-19 - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

 

[Dmmetler]

51 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I have no idea, since I have not been attending choir during the pandemic. Presumably some kind of special mask in which one can sing?

Typically a mask with an excellent filter that sits away from the mouth and has some stiffness to it. I find most KN95s and happy masks work fine for singing, but there are ones sold through music companies as well. 

 

I've been down the rabbit hole of masks for music because I've been trying to find options for my students. Honestly, I think that anyone doing anything involving wind instruments in person right now is just plain accepting that the risk is higher no matter what you do than for other activities, because all the music masks and bell covers in the world are going to have more droplets and aerosols escaping than a mask without a hole in it for the mouthpiece.  I am really hoping that college marching bands at schools doing in person football with the full game day experience are including band members in testing the same as they are football players-because even practicing outside, there is a LOT of risk of transmission for those students. 

[mommyoffive]

New kidney problems linked to 'long COVID'; loss of smell may be followed by other smell distortions (msn.com)

 

Covid-19 live updates: Hospitalization rate for unvaccinated teens 10 times the rate for those vaccinated, CDC says (msn.com)

[SKL]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

while I completely agree, and wouldn't do any such thing, there's not much difference between being elbow to elbow with people in a theme park vs having your kids elbow to elbow with other kids in classrooms and school cafeterias...

I am not setting foot on a plane (even though I have urgent need to travel overseas for family reasons) or attending any cultural events. But I can see how, at this point, someone else can come to the conclusion that it's futile to forgo things since they're going to get infected anyway through the school.
 

To me, there are a couple of obvious differences.

1) Going to school isn't spreading the germs from one community (city, state, etc.) to another.

2) Going to school vs. sitting at home has a much higher value than going to a vacation destination vs. hiking your nearby parks.

Besides which, there are many reasons why traveling now won't be as fun, meaningful, or comfortable as it will be once all this crap is over.

[madteaparty]

17 hours ago, SKL said:

Yeah ... this may surprise some people here, but I don't understand "careful people" doing fun travel right now.  I mean how do you do that without sharing germs?  Unless you are driving a camper van, you're not only sharing but potentially spreading.  Is it worth it?  Why not just wait?

I am an avid traveler, and I haven't been on a plane since April 2019, nor do I have any plans.  I hate this.  My kids hate it.  But I can't justify that kind of activity in my mind.

I guess I’m not that careful but I did some fun travel this summer with my kids and I’m so glad I did. It’s really important for my particular quality of life to travel, and yes, absolutely worth it. I also refuse not to see family overseas though that wasn’t the primary reason.  I knew the risks and did some preventative stuff. Actually I was gone most summer.  Flying on a plane is safe. Sitting in a crowded room waiting for customs probably not but I had a respirator mask on, etc. In all my many flights this summer I haven’t caught covid yet, though I was prepared for it to happen. My sister got it from kids’s daycare camp though 🤷‍♀️ So sad. I will also say my exposure at home is about zero since I live fairly isolated/rural, so I was not worried about taking something overseas. You need a test to come back and anyway I didn’t see anyone for about a week or so (and they knew where I had been). Writing this all out to explain the “sharing germs” you had a question about, not because I feel the need to justify. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by madteaparty

[madteaparty]

11 hours ago, SKL said:

To me, there are a couple of obvious differences.

1) Going to school isn't spreading the germs from one community (city, state, etc.) to another.

2) Going to school vs. sitting at home has a much higher value than going to a vacation destination vs. hiking your nearby parks.

Besides which, there are many reasons why traveling now won't be as fun, meaningful, or comfortable as it will be once all this crap is over.

1. Living on the planet is spreading germs.

2. Maybe for the general public, but individual calculations vary

3. it’s even more fun, everything feels a bit like a miracle. “This crap” may never be over. 

 

[mommyoffive]

 

One week. (August 28 to today Sept 4th)

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, madteaparty said:

1. Living on the planet is spreading germs.

2. Maybe for the general public, but individual calculations vary

3. it’s even more fun, everything feels a bit like a miracle. “This crap” may never be over. 

 

I'd also look at the COVID precautions the destination is taking. I spent a few days in Atlanta with my mom while my dad was at a conference, and we had many of the museums almost to ourselves. Even the GA aquarium was admitting only a small number of people per hour, so it was possible to spread out, and didn't feel horribly risky, especially for two vaccinated people. 

[mommyoffive]

Mu COVID Variant, Which Could Be Resistant to Vaccines, Now in Almost Every State (msn.com)

[Wheres Toto]

I have plans to "travel" in November.  Oldest dd and I (both fully vaccinated, she also had confirmed Covid) are driving to Niantic, CT.    We are staying in a hotel, will pick up food at a grocery store and eat in our room, we will mask whenever we are not in our room or car.   We are driving up one day and driving back home the next.  The drive is about 3 hours so we may need to stop once but will try not to. 

Both CT where we are going and NJ where we are coming from are doing well as far as vaccination rates and transmission currently.  

That's about the extent of travel I'm willing to do right now.

[mommyoffive]

Biden administration prepares for 'reasonable likelihood' of another serious pandemic (msn.com)

[Corraleno]

3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Biden administration prepares for 'reasonable likelihood' of another serious pandemic (msn.com)

Sounds like a better plan than pretending a virulent pathogen will just "disappear like magic." This seems like basic common (or maybe not so common) sense:

The plan includes:

• Dramatically expanding the arsenal of vaccines, therapeutics and diagnostics.
• Strengthening public health systems both in the U.S. and internationally.
• Improving the ability of the U.S. to produce personal protective equipment and other vital supplies.
• Improving early detection of pandemic threats.
• Creating a centralized “mission control” to be in charge of an effort that will draw on multiple federal agencies.

[73349]

I feel vaguely sick but had a negative Covid test. I think DH and I caught something else at the Y. We'll skip it this week (and there's no drum lesson or scout meeting), so DS's one class on Wednesday is our only risk point of the work week. We're driving ~3.5 hours Friday so DS can do a backpacking trip with scouts, and we'll drive home Sunday.

[ktgrok]

I've been SO nervous about going to in person church and the kids doing Sunday school (even outside) but our cases and positivity rate are dropping! Not good, but going in the right direction! I'm going to take that as a sign that things are going to be okay next Sunday for us to start going. There is a kick off event after the service next week, all outdoor, including lunch - picnic style. We were told to bring our own chairs or blanket to eat on outside. I am also hoping that a church that has all these precautions is one that people who are being risky would not want to attend anyway. Higher chance of adults being vaccinated, etc if we go to a church pushing Covid as serious, having vaccine clinics on campus, etc. 

And my kids NEED to do something. If we wait until they are vaccinated they will miss out on the kick off event, the early bonding, etc. It is going to be hard enough for my 11 yr old to do this...being the ONLY new person if we waited would be way harder and maybe impossible. 

[mommyoffive]

The covid endgame: Is the pandemic over already? Or are there years to go? (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

What to do if your child is exposed to covid at school (msn.com)

 

Some nurses are choosing to get fired rather than get vaccinated (msn.com)

[Faith-manor]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I've been SO nervous about going to in person church and the kids doing Sunday school (even outside) but our cases and positivity rate are dropping! Not good, but going in the right direction! I'm going to take that as a sign that things are going to be okay next Sunday for us to start going. There is a kick off event after the service next week, all outdoor, including lunch - picnic style. We were told to bring our own chairs or blanket to eat on outside. I am also hoping that a church that has all these precautions is one that people who are being risky would not want to attend anyway. Higher chance of adults being vaccinated, etc if we go to a church pushing Covid as serious, having vaccine clinics on campus, etc. 

And my kids NEED to do something. If we wait until they are vaccinated they will miss out on the kick off event, the early bonding, etc. It is going to be hard enough for my 11 yr old to do this...being the ONLY new person if we waited would be way harder and maybe impossible. 

Right there with you. This has been a horror show for kids because the adults didn't want to do what was necessary. So I don't blame you one bit.

This is why we are planning a hopefully fairly covid safe outdoor Halloween party with a small group of very careful families for our grandson because the kids are going to come unhinged if they can't see light at the end of tunnel! I have a lot of anger if not rage at the "let it rip" crowd.

[pinball]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:34 AM, mommyoffive said:

Oklahoma's ERs are so backed up with people overdosing on ivermectin, gunshot victims are having to wait to be treated (msn.com)

This story is false. 

We at NHS-Sequoyah have not seen or had any patients in our ER or hospital with ivermectin overdose,"Six said. "We have not had any patients with complaints or issues related to ivermectin."

 

 

 

The KFOR interview with Dr. McElyea stated that he was associated with the Sallisaw hospital. Six wants the public to know that he does not speak for NHS-Sequoyah and there have been no such issues at her facility.

 

 

 

Six stated that Dr. McElyea has treated patients in the Sallisaw emergency room but not in the past several months.

 

 

 

 

"I can't speak for what he has witnessed at other facilities but this in not true for ours," Six said. "We certainly have not turned any patients away due to an overload of ivermectin related cases. All patients who have come into our ER have been treated as appropriate."

https://www.kxmx.com/post/ivermectin-overdose-not-an-issue-at-sallisaw-emergency-room-or-hospital

 

[Carrie12345]

10 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Sounds like a better plan than pretending a virulent pathogen will just "disappear like magic." This seems like basic common (or maybe not so common) sense:

The plan includes:

• Dramatically expanding the arsenal of vaccines, therapeutics and diagnostics.
• Strengthening public health systems both in the U.S. and internationally.
• Improving the ability of the U.S. to produce personal protective equipment and other vital supplies.
• Improving early detection of pandemic threats.
• Creating a centralized “mission control” to be in charge of an effort that will draw on multiple federal agencies.

If I’m remembering correctly, the Obama/Biden administration put a lot of effort into pandemic planning. I have no idea how much funding may or may not have gone into resources for it, but a plan existed.  And I do believe plans, to various degrees, existed before that.  
They just didn’t get implemented in the way that the National Preparedness System (for the US, at least) was designed to operate.

Okay, I took a minute to google. Official planning efforts began in 1976.

[Cordelia]

10 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I've been SO nervous about going to in person church and the kids doing Sunday school (even outside) but our cases and positivity rate are dropping! Not good, but going in the right direction! I'm going to take that as a sign that things are going to be okay next Sunday for us to start going. There is a kick off event after the service next week, all outdoor, including lunch - picnic style. We were told to bring our own chairs or blanket to eat on outside. I am also hoping that a church that has all these precautions is one that people who are being risky would not want to attend anyway. Higher chance of adults being vaccinated, etc if we go to a church pushing Covid as serious, having vaccine clinics on campus, etc. 

And my kids NEED to do something. If we wait until they are vaccinated they will miss out on the kick off event, the early bonding, etc. It is going to be hard enough for my 11 yr old to do this...being the ONLY new person if we waited would be way harder and maybe impossible. 

I've been attending a church that has outdoor services. My experience has been that those who do not wish to take precautions have already left this church and gone to one of the (many) churches that are having a free for all. It's been a good experience for us. 

[MEmama]

We are literally the most covid cautious people we know, by a long shot, and our friends take *a lot* of precautions. I never thought we would travel this year—even going to a grocery outside my neighborhood makes me uncomfortable— but we are flying to Ireland to help DS get set up at university.
 

Ireland has a vaccination rate that is higher than my very high state and we will spend our time mostly outdoors, no pubs or museums for us this trip. Is it ideal? Far from it. Will it be as fun? Probably, in a very different way, but we aren’t going for “fun” anyway. Would I go just for a vaycay? No way. But here we are. 
 

I feel deeply conflicted about going, but I’m not going to feel *guilty* for helping my only child, just as no one should feel *guilty* for sending their kid to school or allowing them a friend pod or playing sports or a million other things we must compromise on during this time. We've been as careful as possible since covid started, will continue to be vigilant on our trip and will return to our very solitary covid existence when we return (including isolating just in case). 
 

We take responsibility very seriously and I do think we can take this particular trip while maintaining our commitment to keeping those around us safe.

[madteaparty]

On 9/3/2021 at 3:25 PM, regentrude said:

Bahaha - I don't for a moment believe folks are actually quarantining and not flying when they get Covid away from home. They would not test. They would just get on the plane. Call me cynical. I have not seen anything that would make me believe otherwise. 
If people send their kids to school with positive tests, why would they give crap about strangers in an airplane?
I think most folks have given up on doing anything to mitigate covid spread, and we're a minority of sorry hermits in N-95 masks.

You have to test to get back into the Us. Now, the test is up to three days old and you could have supposedly caught it on the meantime. But yeah, they check. You can’t board. 
I also had to test the second I landed in France because I had no way to convert my US vaccine card to their covid pass. Took taxi straight to pharmacy with my suitcases. While waiting for result sitting outside at a cafe next door, I was asked for the very covid pass I was waiting for. Thankfully they accepted my US vaccine card just then. 
(Can’t multiquote) what @ktgroksays about the fear of tearing positive overseas, with child in tow, and having to navigate hospitals in a language I barely speak was a real fear. But it was the risk I took. Like I said. I did preventive things because NOT ending up in a hospital, anywhere, is my goal lol. 

 

[madteaparty]

34 minutes ago, MEmama said:

We are literally the most covid cautious people we know, by a long shot, and our friends take *a lot* of precautions. I never thought we would travel this year—even going to a grocery outside my neighborhood makes me uncomfortable— but we are flying to Ireland to help DS get set up at university.
 

Ireland has a vaccination rate that is higher than my very high state and we will spend our time mostly outdoors, no pubs or museums for us this trip. Is it ideal? Far from it. Will it be as fun? Probably, in a very different way, but we aren’t going for “fun” anyway. Would I go just for a vaycay? No way. But here we are. 
 

I feel deeply conflicted about going, but I’m not going to feel *guilty* for helping my only child, just as no one should feel *guilty* for sending their kid to school or allowing them a friend pod or playing sports or a million other things we must compromise on during this time. We've been as careful as possible since covid started, will continue to be vigilant on our trip and will return to our very solitary covid existence when we return (including isolating just in case). 
 

We take responsibility very seriously and I do think we can take this particular trip while maintaining our commitment to keeping those around us safe.

Good for you. Go enjoy! The only thing I had to manage was my own stress about taking the zinc, and the nose sprays, and switching out my masks (and doing same for my confused children)
t’s a lot of work to travel in the timE of covid... but also magical! 

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Right there with you. This has been a horror show for kids because the adults didn't want to do what was necessary. So I don't blame you one bit.

This is why we are planning a hopefully fairly covid safe outdoor Halloween party with a small group of very careful families for our grandson because the kids are going to come unhinged if they can't see light at the end of tunnel! I have a lot of anger if not rage at the "let it rip" crowd.

Yes - I'm so angry about adults ducking responsibility and leaving the kids in a hard space!

1 hour ago, Cordelia said:

I've been attending a church that has outdoor services. My experience has been that those who do not wish to take precautions have already left this church and gone to one of the (many) churches that are having a free for all. It's been a good experience for us. 

That's what I'm hoping! I mean, it already is an "open and affirming" church, with a little rainbow symbol right on the main page and on the front of every bulletin, which will skew toward a certain more liberal demographic. Now, I know there is a whole segment of the liberal population that doesn't believe in vaccines, and wants a chiro or essential oil to cure everything, but in my limited experience those particular type of liberals are not generally attending church. 

So...I'm sort of hoping the niche of "Christian Left" overlaps highly with "vaccinated and Covid cautious". Which is still a risk because of the schools...no matter how cautious you are, if your kid is in public school there is risk, but fingers crossed. 

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

We are literally the most covid cautious people we know, by a long shot, and our friends take *a lot* of precautions. I never thought we would travel this year—even going to a grocery outside my neighborhood makes me uncomfortable— but we are flying to Ireland to help DS get set up at university.
 

I think those of us surprised by people "traveling for fun" are talking about those who are say, going to resorts to drink at bars and hang out in groups as if Covid never existed.  (lots of photos on my facebook feed of this stuff)

Taking your kid to college isn't a vacation. It would be in the category of traveling for work, in my mind. And I'm not anti travel, just anti reckless travel. And I'm concerned about travel even when cautious due to the issue of being stuck where you are if you get sick. My oldest got Covid while traveling, best we can tell. He wasn't symptomatic until the day after he got back, but if he had been he would have been in a real pickle. He planned that before Delta, when we thought vaccination meant he was safe to go. 

42 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

You have to test to get back into the Us. Now, the test is up to three days old and you could have supposedly caught it on the meantime. But yeah, they check. You can’t board. 
 

Right, but if say, traveling to Florida to go to theme parks, there is no test required to fly home to Nebraska or whatever. 

[kbutton]

12 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

The covid endgame: Is the pandemic over already? Or are there years to go? (msn.com)

Quote

Some of the nation’s most prominent epidemiologists and public health experts say we are already there — for different reasons.

“The emergency phase of the disease is over,” said Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine and health economist at Stanford University. “Now, we need to work very hard to undo the sense of emergency. We should be treating covid as one of 200 diseases that affect people.”

The pivotal engine driving a return to normal life for Bhattacharya has been the vaccines, “which really do protect against death,” he said. “It’s a miraculous development, and we should just be celebrating it.” By driving down deaths and hospitalizations, especially for the most vulnerable populations — the elderly and people with preexisting health problems — “we have greatly succeeded, and to me, that’s the endpoint of the epidemic because we really can’t do better than that.”

It is interesting (and alarming) to me that he defines the whole thing by the most vulnerable being protected without factoring in hospital overwhelm.

I thought there were fairly firm definitions for epidemics and pandemics--early on, they waited longer than most people here were comfortable with to call it a pandemic because they were careful about definitions.

[Corraleno]

10 minutes ago, kbutton said:

It is interesting (and alarming) to me that he defines the whole thing by the most vulnerable being protected without factoring in hospital overwhelm.

I thought there were fairly firm definitions for epidemics and pandemics--early on, they waited longer than most people here were comfortable with to call it a pandemic because they were careful about definitions.

Jay Bhattacharya is an economist and he has argued from the very beginning that we should just let it rip to reach herd immunity as quickly as possible for the sake of the economy. He is one of the primary authors of the Great Barrington Declaration.

[kbutton]

8 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Jay Bhattacharya is an economist and he has argued from the very beginning that we should just let it rip to reach herd immunity as quickly as possible for the sake of the economy. He is one of the primary authors of the Great Barrington Declaration.

Oops, missed that! The paragraph before that seems misleading in this light.

Quote

Some of the nation’s most prominent epidemiologists and public health experts say we are already there — for different reasons.

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by kbutton

[mommyoffive]

Florida official wants Gov. Ron DeSantis to make the controversial and unproven COVID-19 treatment ivermectin more widely available (msn.com)

 

The ‘true delta wave’ starts this weekend, expert says (msn.com)

[KSera]

6 hours ago, pinball said:

This story is false. 

https://www.kxmx.com/post/ivermectin-overdose-not-an-issue-at-sallisaw-emergency-room-or-hospital

 

This was discussed above as sounding implausible. Certainly there are hospitals around the country treating ivermectin overdoses, but this guy’s story that they are so full of ivermectin overdoses (rather than Covid) that gunshot victims couldn’t be treated rang really untrue. 

2 hours ago, madteaparty said:

You have to test to get back into the Us. Now, the test is up to three days old and you could have supposedly caught it on the meantime. But yeah, they check. You can’t board. 

The vast majority of people traveling in the US are traveling domestically, not internationally. For that, no test is required. Pretty sure that’s what was being referred to as far as people getting on the plane even if they have Covid. 

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

It is interesting (and alarming) to me that he defines the whole thing by the most vulnerable being protected without factoring in hospital overwhelm.

 

54 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Oops, missed that! The paragraph before that seems misleading in this light.

Yeah, I almost commented that I thought they relied on a couple lousy sources in that article (besides Battachayra, also the person who said Covid is no longer a medical problem 🤨). I think they were aiming for being balanced, but doing that by having people make untrue statements isn’t balance to me. A lot of people reading will take them at their word. As long as we have this many people dying every day (do people who think it’s over realize we have over 2000 Covid deaths a day in the US right now? Almost all of them preventable.) and hospitals overwhelmed so much that people can’t get normal care and some people are dying for lack of a bed, it’s crazy to say we are past the pandemic portion of this. 

[pinball]

26 minutes ago, KSera said:

This was discussed above as sounding implausible. Certainly there are hospitals around the country treating ivermectin overdoses, but this guy’s story that they are so full of ivermectin overdoses (rather than Covid) that gunshot victims couldn’t be treated rang really untrue. 

The vast majority of people traveling in the US are traveling domestically, not internationally. For that, no test is required. Pretty sure that’s what was being referred to as far as people getting on the plane even if they have Covid. 

 

Yeah, I almost commented that I thought they relied on a couple lousy sources in that article (besides Battachayra, also the person who said Covid is no longer a medical problem 🤨). I think they were aiming for being balanced, but doing that by having people make untrue statements isn’t balance to me. A lot of people reading will take them at their word. As long as we have this many people dying every day (do people who think it’s over realize we have over 2000 Covid deaths a day in the US right now? Almost all of them preventable.) and hospitals overwhelmed so much that people can’t get normal care and some people are dying for lack of a bed, it’s crazy to say we are past the pandemic portion of this. 

Yeah, I skimmed all the posts after the false story post and didn’t see anything refuting it.

There’s a chance I missed something. Shrug. No one posted that it is well and truly false, as verified by the actual hospital.