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At what point would you lock down again?


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Just now, Roadrunner said:

He will have no choice in school in the fall. 
 

Well, he'll definitely have to wear them, but maybe he still won't enjoy it. 

I actually don't like disposable masks much, because they don't stay on very well and I constantly have to tweak it. Maybe if I taped it to my face and tied it behind my head, it'd be OK? 

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5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, he'll definitely have to wear them, but maybe he still won't enjoy it. 

I actually don't like disposable masks much, because they don't stay on very well and I constantly have to tweak it. Maybe if I taped it to my face and tied it behind my head, it'd be OK? 

I think it’s a matter of habit. If you have to wear them, you get used to it. 
We also all dislike cloth ones because they stick to the face and make harder to breath. I think that’s the reason surgical masks have been a hit here. 
My kids are lucky that they are both vaccinated and don’t live in a crowded area. They simply never had to wear a mask for more than an hour - a music lesson, literally. So it’s a massive adjustment to have to do it for say 7-8 hours. But it’s an easier adjustment when you don’t have a choice. 😉

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Just now, Roadrunner said:

I think it’s a matter of habit. If you have to wear them, you get used to it. 
We also all dislike cloth ones because they stick to the face and make harder to breath. I think that’s the reason surgical masks have been a hit here. 
My kids are lucky that they are both vaccinated and don’t live in a crowded area. They simply never had to wear a mask for more than an hour - a music lesson, literally. So it’s a massive adjustment to have to do it for say 7-8 hours. But it’s an easier adjustment when you don’t have a choice. 😉

I like Happy Masks, because they both stay up and don't stick to my face. I think the various N-95 versions do the same thing. 

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7 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think it’s a matter of habit. If you have to wear them, you get used to it. 
We also all dislike cloth ones because they stick to the face and make harder to breath. I think that’s the reason surgical masks have been a hit here. 
My kids are lucky that they are both vaccinated and don’t live in a crowded area. They simply never had to wear a mask for more than an hour - a music lesson, literally. So it’s a massive adjustment to have to do it for say 7-8 hours. But it’s an easier adjustment when you don’t have a choice. 😉

The cloth ones I make are shaped and don’t stick to your face.  I wore one that was just a pleated rectangle a few days ago and it kept getting sucked against my mouth when I breathed in or talked.  Huge difference in comfort.

 

edit:  I made a few for teacher friends last fall and they were all “Oh, this I can wear all day.”
 

Edited by Danae
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5 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think it’s a matter of habit. If you have to wear them, you get used to it. 
We also all dislike cloth ones because they stick to the face and make harder to breath. I think that’s the reason surgical masks have been a hit here. 
My kids are lucky that they are both vaccinated and don’t live in a crowded area. They simply never had to wear a mask for more than an hour - a music lesson, literally. So it’s a massive adjustment to have to do it for say 7-8 hours. But it’s an easier adjustment when you don’t have a choice. 😉

I work from home so never had to wear a mask for long periods of time until we flew last month. It was harder than I thought it would be. More annoying than difficult. 

DD went to school once a week last year and had to wear a mask so traveling was easier for her than me. 

It was strange seeing everyone in masks at the airport and on the plane since hardly anyone masks here anymore. 

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I'm way behind on this thread but am going to give my planned reply anyway.

I don't have young children but I do have young grandchildren, including one who has Down Syndrome and is immune deficient. If she gets Covid she will likely have a more severe case and will have a harder time recovering. Also, the heart issue with Covid is a major concern in people with DS.

Our middle grandchild will be 7 the end of this month. He already "lost" his 6th birthday celebration to Covid but as things were getting better DSS and DDIL were planning a small party at an Orlando hotel that has a pirate ship at the pool. It was just going to be a few family members and one school friend. As the numbers are going up and the Delta variant cases are exploding they decided to cancel it. There's no Plan B yet but it will probably be just the grandparents on both sides and possibly a few cousins (2nd cousins). The boys are 9 and almost 7 and Emma will be 3 next month so none of them can get vaccinated yet. All the adults in our close family are vaccinated as are all kids 12 and up. It's still a concern though and we're all hoping for the emergency approval for younger kids sooner rather than later.

So my answer is I wouldn't lock down completely but would definitely pull back a good bit. I don't know what I'd do about the outside park issue.

 I think my stepson and dil are making the right choices in pulling back on activities and reducing contact with outside people. They haven't decided what to do about school yet. The boys didn't do well at all with virtual schooling and were thriving once they started in person school again. 

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1 hour ago, Lecka said:

I think it matters whether there is a stage where kids are pretty happy to talk to anybody or play with anybody;  or, if they are wanting to find the kids where they fit in and particularly want to talk to those kids.

I think for the second thing, they feel the masks more.  

 

50 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's possible? My college-aged sister doesn't seem to mind masks much. It might be partially just personality. 

I think older kids also have an easier time having mostly online relationships. So there are ups and downs. 

I was going to say, I think with the older kids, it’s personality (and parental views) more than age. Younger kids mostly seem to not care from what I’ve seen. I have a very young one, and he often doesn’t even realize he still has it on when we get in the car and will just keep it on unless someone says he can take it off. But, my college kids don’t mind in the least either, including the one on the spectrum. The other is adamant they will be wearing them on campus even if no one else does. 

23 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, he'll definitely have to wear them, but maybe he still won't enjoy it. 

I actually don't like disposable masks much, because they don't stay on very well and I constantly have to tweak it. Maybe if I taped it to my face and tied it behind my head, it'd be OK? 

Sounds like your ear loops are too long. You can buy ear loop adjusters. Or just tie them. But definitely get ear savers if you’re wearing ear loops for long. If they’re adjusted as tight as they should be, they’re likely to irritate your ears eventually. 

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1 hour ago, KSera said:

Sounds like your ear loops are too long. You can buy ear loop adjusters. Or just tie them. But definitely get ear savers if you’re wearing ear loops for long. If they’re adjusted as tight as they should be, they’re likely to irritate your ears eventually. 

Yeah, I think you're right about that. I didn't mess with them too much, to be honest, because I only tried them for a few days -- I like the fit of the Happy Masks better. 

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1 hour ago, Lecka said:

Honestly I think everyone I know has been really invested in making the mask thing as positive as possible for kids.  
 

It’s too bad there are kids picking up an attitude 😞
 

I mean, I don’t love it, and will try to validate feelings,  but I think it’s just one more thing where it is worth it as a parent to try to make things as positive as possible. 
 

Sigh.  

There are teachers who don’t think it’s worth even trying to get kids to wear masks.

Last school year I heard from teachers saying, so long as they wear them in the hallways, I don’t care and I won’t even ask them to wear masks otherwise. This was in a building with mandatory mask rules in effect.

It’s frustrating when adults who are supposed to be taking care of children and following the rules of their own facilities, are openly dismissing those rules.

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1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

So my answer is I wouldn't lock down completely but would definitely pull back a good bit. I don't know what I'd do about the outside park issue.

We're definitely pulling back. But since we never did restart indoor activities, the only things I have left to pull back are playgrounds 😛 . And babysitters, I guess. 

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Question for those with young children and wondering whether to restrict their activities:

Have you had them tested recently for antibodies?  If they have already had Covid, their risk of catching and spreading Covid is a lot different.

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As to whether kids dislike masks, I think it's like a lot of things that they don't necessarily verbalize.

A friend's 4yo was mentioning that they were getting outdoor mask breaks at school.  He referred to such breaks as "that's when we get to breathe."  His folks aren't anti-mask and I'm 100% sure they have not taught their kids (then ages 4, 6, 8, and 10) to have an "attitude" about them.

Kids will put up with almost anything they are subjected to.  In a house full of people who smoke indoors, kids living there will never say a word.  It will never occur to them.  That doesn't mean they aren't affected.

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15 minutes ago, SKL said:

As to whether kids dislike masks, I think it's like a lot of things that they don't necessarily verbalize.

A friend's 4yo was mentioning that they were getting outdoor mask breaks at school.  He referred to such breaks as "that's when we get to breathe."  His folks aren't anti-mask and I'm 100% sure they have not taught their kids (then ages 4, 6, 8, and 10) to have an "attitude" about them.

Kids will put up with almost anything they are subjected to.  In a house full of people who smoke indoors, kids living there will never say a word.  It will never occur to them.  That doesn't mean they aren't affected.

The point is it’s a safety thing, and most do fine with it. Like, given a choice, a lot of kids would likely prefer not to ride in a car seat. But most also handle it fine and it’s necessary for safety, so it’s what we do. So I don’t really get the point. 
 

I’d wonder if the “that’s when we get to breathe” boy is getting that wording from his teacher or someone else at school. That does not sound like something a 4 year old would come up with, but sounds very much like anti-masker type wording. 

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5 minutes ago, KSera said:

The point is it’s a safety thing, and most do fine with it. Like, given a choice, a lot of kids would likely prefer not to ride in a car seat. But most also handle it fine and it’s necessary for safety, so it’s what we do. So I don’t really get the point. 
 

I’d wonder if the “that’s when we get to breathe” boy is getting that wording from his teacher or someone else at school. That does not sound like something a 4 year old would come up with, but sounds very much like anti-masker type wording. 

My kids would absolutely prefer NOT having masks to having masks. That doesn't make it a huge deal. 

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15 minutes ago, KSera said:

The point is it’s a safety thing, and most do fine with it. Like, given a choice, a lot of kids would likely prefer not to ride in a car seat. But most also handle it fine and it’s necessary for safety, so it’s what we do. So I don’t really get the point. 
 

I’d wonder if the “that’s when we get to breathe” boy is getting that wording from his teacher or someone else at school. That does not sound like something a 4 year old would come up with, but sounds very much like anti-masker type wording. 

1) My purpose was to respond to the several posts where posters indicated they don't think young kids are bothered by masks.  I am saying that just because they may not verbalize the discomfort, that doesn't mean they are comfortable.  I wasn't commenting on whether or not it was a safety thing.  I thought the point of this thread was weighing the pros and cons of masking outdoors at the playground etc.  If masking was really neutral, this wouldn't be a question.  We don't have threads about whether kids should wear socks at the playground.

2) This 4yo happens to be very verbal and gifted.  So it does sound like something he would say.  And it is very likely he isn't the only one thinking it, even if he's one of the few his age who are likely to say it.

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10 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

My young 20’s friends who now have heart problems after having had Covid are not imagining a thing. Or who now can’t climb a flight of stairs without gasping for breath. That isn’t all in their head either. 

Right. That’s why I added my caveat.  Here it is again. 
 

Quote

I’ll add as I always try to do, that this doesn’t mean I think long Covid is ALL in people’s heads or that there aren’t people suffering because of real physiologic issues due to Covid. It’s just so very messy right now that it’s hard to say what the extent of this is.

 But still, people choose to interpret my post as saying the opposite. 😕

Saying that there are people who have real things going on doesn’t mean that every. single. person that thinks they have long Covid does have real things going on that are actually due to Covid.

And that’s essential to figure out when it is being studied.

I am talking about studying and defining the illness. 

Because accepting that 100% of those who say they have long Covid do have disease from Covid, just on their say-so, doesn’t seem like good medicine to me. How can people with various symptoms be helped, how can researchers study things that can help them, if there are no clear definitions, documented infection isn’t required, and there is no investigation into other things that might be causing the symptoms? 

We know that you can get a vaccine and then have prolonged fatigue or a blood clot or a heart attack, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that event was definitively caused by the vaccine in every case. The same is true for any virus. You can have a virus and have all sorts of things occur for months after the virus that are not due to the virus. Or maybe for many people, they are, but for some others, they have other causes. 

 

Edited by Penelope
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6 hours ago, SKL said:

Question for those with young children and wondering whether to restrict their activities:

Have you had them tested recently for antibodies?  If they have already had Covid, their risk of catching and spreading Covid is a lot different.

I’m not restricting anything more at this time, but I considered antibody testing for about 5 minutes in the spring. But blood draws can be an ordeal for young children. Adults can get tested as a proxy, though. If parents don’t have antibodies, it seems less likely that the young children would have been infected.

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10 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I think it’s a matter of habit. If you have to wear them, you get used to it. 
We also all dislike cloth ones because they stick to the face and make harder to breath. I think that’s the reason surgical masks have been a hit here. 
My kids are lucky that they are both vaccinated and don’t live in a crowded area. They simply never had to wear a mask for more than an hour - a music lesson, literally. So it’s a massive adjustment to have to do it for say 7-8 hours. But it’s an easier adjustment when you don’t have a choice. 😉

So when I’m volunteering and cooking all day in a hot kitchen, I swap out for the surgical ones. I think the cloth provide better protection but the surgical ones are infinitely easier to breathe in. And also, I was boarding a plane the other day and they required surgical or the K-whatever ones, no cloth ones 🤷‍♀️

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1 hour ago, Penelope said:

Right. That’s why I added my caveat.  Here it is again. 
 

 But still, people choose to interpret my post as saying the opposite. 😕

Saying that there are people who have real things going on doesn’t mean that every. single. person that thinks they have long Covid does have real things going on that are actually due to Covid.

And that’s essential to figure out when it is being studied.

I am talking about studying and defining the illness. 

Because accepting that 100% of those who say they have long Covid do have disease from Covid, just on their say-so, doesn’t seem like good medicine to me. How can people with various symptoms be helped, how can researchers study things that can help them, if there are no clear definitions, documented infection isn’t required, and there is no investigation into other things that might be causing the symptoms? 

We know that you can get a vaccine and then have prolonged fatigue or a blood clot or a heart attack, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that event was definitively caused by the vaccine in every case. The same is true for any virus. You can have a virus and have all sorts of things occur for months after the virus that are not due to the virus. Or maybe for many people, they are, but for some others, they have other causes. 

 

I understood what you meant. My DD had a cold the other day and I freaked out it was covid (not bc I’m scared of covid but we all, even the vaccinated ones, need tested to travel). And then I chucked to myself that everything is Covid now, all other diseases disappeared...

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On 7/16/2021 at 12:42 PM, TravelingChris said:

I would be dead if no one saw me for 3 weeks and I was still sick.  What about people with risks for serious disease like pneumonia, collapsed lungs, etc.?

You raise an excellent question. If you have a known respiratory illness in the UK that has ongoing risk or chronic consequences (recurrent pneumonia and elevated lung collapse risk both count), you'd generally have the phone number for the specialist department who looked after you the first time (or subsequent times, if you've been treated closer to your current location since). You'd call them on Day 1, not the GP. Even if you'd lost the number during a house move or something, you'd call the hospital and ask them to give you the number (after proving you are a patient with business with that department - receptions have to deal with quite a few people who ask for the wrong department, or aren't who they say they are).

Specialists don't have a fixed procedure for all their patients the way a GP does, rather it would be changed according to what you reported and the hospital's triage (specialists are hospital-based, not GP-based) - which has no COVID delays except for those brought on by COVID patients overloading hospitals (which right now is still in single digits, out of a country with a couple of thousand hospitals). An overloaded hospital's specialist would either transfer your case to another hospital with the appropriate competency,

If it wasn't something that could reasonably be handled in the community, you'd go to hospital, and if you don't hold an appointment, go through the hospital's Accident & Emergency triage (hours in a worst-case scenario, assuming the specialist didn't call you an ambulance). Due to the specialist already knowing your circumstances, you'd also wait less time in A&E than if you'd simply gone to A&E of your own accord (which you're entitled to do in any case). If you require nursing follow-up care, you usually have to make the first appointment yourself, but you don't get the palaver of artificial waits (GP nurse availability may affect when the appointment can happen). Follow-ups to that are generally booked at the appointment itself.

The GP would be updated with the particulars afterwards, but would not usually have any involvement in your care for such a situation (the G in GP means "general", and would not necessarily be expected to know what the appropriate Step 2 is for a given serious illness or injury; mostly their job is to know the correct Step 1 for every single condition). The GP's primary jobs are to diagnose or signpost for conditions the patient can't identify (or self-treat even with a pharmacist's assistance, don't require a specialist to identify the correct treatment, and are also non-urgent at the time of calling the GP), and to be able to transfer information to other medical people about events outside their own department (for example, if the respiratory department has a patient due for a shoulder operation, it's the GP who would provide that information to the respiratory team at the point of need in most cases).

Edited by ieta_cassiopeia
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4 hours ago, Penelope said:

I’m not restricting anything more at this time, but I considered antibody testing for about 5 minutes in the spring. But blood draws can be an ordeal for young children. Adults can get tested as a proxy, though. If parents don’t have antibodies, it seems less likely that the young children would have been infected.

I'm not sure what people are picturing with the antibody tests, but for us it was just a fingerprick - something many people (including some kids) have to do frequently.  It's not fun, but I'd rather do it once if it could mean not wearing masks all summer and not worrying about it. 

Even a regular blood draw - I had my kids' blood work done when they were 4 to check for lead.  Neither of them were particularly bothered.

If I lived in a place that had a lot of cases, I can't imagine why I wouldn't test my kids for antibodies.

Edited by SKL
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15 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

 But it's true that younger kids are simply more flexible. 

I think a lot of kids wind up disliking masks because they absorb the attitude from their parents. If their parents think it's an onerous ordeal, they feel differently about masks than they would otherwise. (We have some friends like this.) 

I definitely think this has a lot to do with it.   

From what I saw last year, even the youngest kids get used to it and seem to barely know they are wearing them.  I think its definitely possible to tell if a child is finding a mask uncomfortable.  They play with it, adjust it a lot, try and pull it down, maybe chew on it.   When I have a 3 year old who isn't doing any of those things, it's pretty clear the mask isn't really bothering them.  

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As for the original question, at this point my entire immediate family is vaccinated.  We are still not doing certain activities - we aren't joining a gym again and are waiting until the kids vaccines fully kick in to eat out. 

At my place, I made masks strongly recommended but not required since our mandate was lifted.  I'm not really happy about it but I'm trying to be consistent and follow my long stated policy that we will follow the mandates (many places around here did not), so when the mandates changed I felt like I needed to continue following that.  Our numbers are still fairly low and we have high vaccination rates (hitting 80% of those eligible) but I really felt like they shouldn't be lifted until kids could be vaccinated.   I'm hoping that if trends continue the way they are, that mask mandates return for the Fall.  

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15 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I would find the idea that this is all psychological incredibly disheartening 😕 . 

To be honestly, I used to think that about CFS. I'm really embarrassed about that now. 

Just to make it even more awkward, there is preliminary evidence that some mental health conditions are associated with Long COVID, to an extent not reflected by other people with circumscribed lives. Considering that Long COVID is running at 10% among children who get COVID (it's more common among adults), it does not appear related to initial severity, and 25% of people who get Long COVID appear to get mental health problems that did not previously have them, this is quite the complicating factor.

For some people, there will be a psychological element that is in fact a(nother) symptom.

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6 hours ago, Penelope said:

Saying that there are people who have real things going on doesn’t mean that every. single. person that thinks they have long Covid does have real things going on that are actually due to Covid.

And that’s essential to figure out when it is being studied.

I am talking about studying and defining the illness. 

I understand, and I agree that there are issues with self-report and always are. It’s just that I’ve seen this kind of reasoning being used to dismiss chronic illnesses that don’t show up on the tests before, and I worry that this could happen with long COVID.

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1 hour ago, SKL said:

I'm not sure what people are picturing with the antibody tests, but for us it was just a fingerprick - something many people (including some kids) have to do frequently.  It's not fun, but I'd rather do it once if it could mean not wearing masks all summer and not worrying about it. 

Even a regular blood draw - I had my kids' blood work done when they were 4 to check for lead.  Neither of them were particularly bothered.

If I lived in a place that had a lot of cases, I can't imagine why I wouldn't test my kids for antibodies.

May I ask what kind you had and where you had your test done? This is something we are considering, but I know there are different tests, and I'm wondering if some labs are better than others. Do you (or anyone else here) have any insight on this? 

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3 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

May I ask what kind you had and where you had your test done? This is something we are considering, but I know there are different tests, and I'm wondering if some labs are better than others. Do you (or anyone else here) have any insight on this? 

I went to a local urgent care that was offering tests.  I don't know the name of the test, but it was a finger prick to test for antibodies.  It took no more than 15 minutes to get results for all 3 of us.

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4 hours ago, SKL said:

I'm not sure what people are picturing with the antibody tests, but for us it was just a fingerprick - something many people (including some kids) have to do frequently.  It's not fun, but I'd rather do it once if it could mean not wearing masks all summer and not worrying about it. 

Even a regular blood draw - I had my kids' blood work done when they were 4 to check for lead.  Neither of them were particularly bothered.

If I lived in a place that had a lot of cases, I can't imagine why I wouldn't test my kids for antibodies.

I may be weird, but I really hate finger pricks! I far prefer normal blood draws.

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2 hours ago, SKL said:

I went to a local urgent care that was offering tests.  I don't know the name of the test, but it was a finger prick to test for antibodies.  It took no more than 15 minutes to get results for all 3 of us.

Thanks for the info.  I am going to look into it.  On the one hand I don't want my kids to have or had Covid, but it would relieve all my stress.  Of course we would still follow rules.   How accurate are antibody tests these days?

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19 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I may be weird, but I really hate finger pricks! I far prefer normal blood draws.

Same!  I could have blood drawn all the time with no problem (as long as they can find veins) but the finger pricks really get to me.  One time I did something really weird - didn't pass out, but kind of lost consciousness - and the nurse called an ambulance for me because she thought I was having a stroke (we were at a health fair).  I came to just as the ambulance was arriving and was absolutely mortified.  

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5 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Same!  I could have blood drawn all the time with no problem (as long as they can find veins) but the finger pricks really get to me.  One time I did something really weird - didn't pass out, but kind of lost consciousness - and the nurse called an ambulance for me because she thought I was having a stroke (we were at a health fair).  I came to just as the ambulance was arriving and was absolutely mortified.  

Ooh, interesting! I'm not sure I've met anyone else like this 🙂 . 

I find them more painful and also more irritating later. I spend a LOT of time typing in my life, and I thoroughly dislike typing on a "pricked" finger. 

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12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ooh, interesting! I'm not sure I've met anyone else like this 🙂 . 

I find them more painful and also more irritating later. I spend a LOT of time typing in my life, and I thoroughly dislike typing on a "pricked" finger. 

I think they can also do the poke elsewhere.  Ear, maybe?  I remember one of the secretaries where my mom worked saying something about it once, that she always had them do something other than a finger because of typing. That was ages ago, however.

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3 minutes ago, Danae said:

I think they can also do the poke elsewhere.  Ear, maybe?  I remember one of the secretaries where my mom worked saying something about it once, that she always had them do something other than a finger because of typing. That was ages ago, however.

I've asked for standard blood draws instead before, but that doesn't always work. I should probably ask whether they can do somewhere else next time! Good idea. 

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41 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ooh, interesting! I'm not sure I've met anyone else like this 🙂 . 

I find them more painful and also more irritating later. I spend a LOT of time typing in my life, and I thoroughly dislike typing on a "pricked" finger. 

I hate the pricks too.  I used to give blood often, and the big needle draining blood out of my arm didn't bother me, but I dreaded the little prick they do to see if you have enough iron.  And as I have housemates who have to test their sugar, they periodically talk me into testing mine, and it takes all I have to hold still.  😛  But all that said, it was worth it to me and my kids to know about the antibodies.  I was hoping we had them, so my kids could visit my folks safely.  (That was before teen vaccines.)

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Yeah honestly where I am, it doesn't make any sense for spread to be greater this year than it has been other times -- it's not something where it makes sense based on "the virus spread is the same, people have changed their precautions."  

Which -- it is not like that is a guarantee of anything, but it sure makes it seem like -- the thing that has changed is the delta variant becoming more prevalent in this region!  

Edit:  What I mean is, this isn't something where you can say "they quit wearing masks and look what happened, they opened nightclubs and look what happened."  

Edit:  I think it will take some time to find out?  About the transmissability?  How bad is it really?

Edited by Lecka
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5 hours ago, SKL said:

If I lived in a place that had a lot of cases, I can't imagine why I wouldn't test my kids for antibodies.

I only would if my kids had been out and about a lot more than they have. The antibody tests still aren’t accurate enough for me to feel like they are totally reliable, and no one knows how long antibodies show up for a given person, since it varies so much. I had mine tested (via regular blood draw) in October, based on Covid-like illness in March and having had a lot of lasting fatigue for months afterward. My dr said up front that being negative wouldn’t tell us definitively I hadn’t had it. And mine was negative. So, I feel I’ll never know. 
On accuracy of finger prick tests ( better at specificity than sensitivity): https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/200713/biggest-study-antibody-finger-prick-tests-identifies/

35 minutes ago, mellifera33 said:

I know that some find Eric Feigl-Ding to be alarmist, but I find his latest twitter thread alarming. 

 

I think he overstates when he says “lots”. The Australian cases are notable because they seem at this point to demonstrate actual outdoor transmission, which absolutely concerns me, but I think it’s inappropriate to say that now counts as us seeing “lots” of outdoor transmission. I really hope it doesn’t get to the point where we do. That would change so much. 

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7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Yeah honestly where I am, it doesn't make any sense for spread to be greater this year than it has been other times -- it's not something where it makes sense based on "the virus spread is the same, people have changed their precautions."  

Which -- it is not like that is a guarantee of anything, but it sure makes it seem like -- the thing that has changed is the delta variant becoming more prevalent in this region!  

Edit:  What I mean is, this isn't something where you can say "they quit wearing masks and look what happened, they opened nightclubs and look what happened."  

Edit:  I think it will take some time to find out?  About the transmissability?  How bad is it really?

I think that you can say "they quit wearing masks and opened nightclubs (right before / just as) the Delta variant started to become prevalent and look what happened."    (the words in parentheses are because I don't know the timing in your area.) 

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7 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think that you can say "they quit wearing masks and opened nightclubs (right before / just as) the Delta variant started to become prevalent and look what happened."    (the words in parentheses are because I don't know the timing in your area.) 

It's happening in an area where nobody took anything seriously last summer.  It's happening in an area where a lot of people never started wearing masks at all.

There was no mask mandate in this state, ever.  

Edit:  And why summer?  Cases went down here last summer?  All I can think of is 4th of July, but I think this year is worse than last year after 4th of July? I think last year there was concern about 4th of July being bad, and then it wasn't very bad.  

Edit:  I definitely feel like this is not something where there is more spread because of greater opening/less precautions.  It is a feeling, though, lol.  I think it is too soon to really know.   

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6 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think he overstates when he says “lots”. The Australian cases are notable because they seem at this point to demonstrate actual outdoor transmission, which absolutely concerns me, but I think it’s inappropriate to say that now counts as us seeing “lots” of outdoor transmission. I really hope it doesn’t get to the point where we do. That would change so much. 

He definitely overstates. I've been following Australian contact tracing, and it's almost all indoor transmission. 

However, ANY purely outdoor transmission freaks the heck out of me. 

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2 minutes ago, Lecka said:

It's happening in an area where nobody took anything seriously last summer.  It's happening in an area where a lot of people never started wearing masks at all.

There was no mask mandate in this state, ever.  

Edit:  And why summer?  Cases went down here last summer?  All I can think of is 4th of July, but I think this year is worse than last year after 4th of July? I think last year there was concern about 4th of July being bad, and then it wasn't very bad.  

Since I don't know what state you live in, I can't even check the stats, or look up possible reasons why. . .   

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12 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Oklahoma.  

 

I would assume (just based on other things I've read) that the Delta variant is more easily transmissible and so that changes things up.  Or perhaps the vaccination of older people stopped spread earlier but now that it's spreading among a younger population that is no longer the case? 

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10 hours ago, madteaparty said:

So when I’m volunteering and cooking all day in a hot kitchen, I swap out for the surgical ones. I think the cloth provide better protection but the surgical ones are infinitely easier to breathe in. And also, I was boarding a plane the other day and they required surgical or the K-whatever ones, no cloth ones 🤷‍♀️

What lots of people are doing on those planes are drinking very slowly.  

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5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I understand, and I agree that there are issues with self-report and always are. It’s just that I’ve seen this kind of reasoning being used to dismiss chronic illnesses that don’t show up on the tests before, and I worry that this could happen with long COVID.

Just like the stupid questionnaires that places had or put up- if you have pain, muscle aches, etc-- yes, I do but mine have nothing to do with COVID- they have been ongoing for many decades.  I just wrote that on the form and ignored the yes and no questions.

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6 hours ago, SKL said:

I'm not sure what people are picturing with the antibody tests, but for us it was just a fingerprick - something many people (including some kids) have to do frequently.  It's not fun, but I'd rather do it once if it could mean not wearing masks all summer and not worrying about it. 

Even a regular blood draw - I had my kids' blood work done when they were 4 to check for lead.  Neither of them were particularly bothered.

If I lived in a place that had a lot of cases, I can't imagine why I wouldn't test my kids for antibodies.

My kids have been quite bothered by blood draws in the past. The only antibody test available to me when I got tested was a blood draw. It’s great to know there are finger stick tests available.

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1 hour ago, mellifera33 said:

I know that some find Eric Feigl-Ding to be alarmist, but I find his latest twitter thread alarming. 

 

He is not only alarmist, he doesn’t usually know what he is talking about. Many people that do know have called him out since the beginning. There were even a couple of articles about him and his qualifications. 

He does not know anything about infectious disease epidemiology. 

He advocated for schools to stay closed in the US. Meanwhile, he has been in Austria for the pandemic, where he has his kids in school. He’s a hypocrite and a poseur. 
 

eta There is a parody account that is actually pretty funny. 

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16 minutes ago, Penelope said:

He is not only alarmist, he doesn’t usually know what he is talking about. Many people that do know have called him out since the beginning. There were even a couple of articles about him and his qualifications. 

He does not know anything about infectious disease epidemiology. 

OK, I just looked him up, and he does have a doctorate in epidemiology. Are you saying he didn't specialize in infectious disease? 

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