Jump to content

Menu

Confederate flag again


Quill
 Share

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I suppose this might result in the next couple of questions....

 

Is removing a political flag from a grave an act of civil disobedience?

 

Should the graves of those dead 150 or so years ago be considered fair game for acts of civil disobedience today?

Breaking a law for political reasons or as a political statement is definitely an act of civil disobedience. Whether you think it's "fair game" is always in the eye of the beholder when it comes to civil disobedience. I mostly bring it up because many people expressed a bit of shock that anyone could consider taking something from a grave. I'm saying, it's a political act. Maybe it's right or maybe it's wrong, but no one seemed to see it through that lens. More of a "gasp, a grave" sort of lens.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

re political acts

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Breaking a law for political reasons or as a political statement is definitely an act of civil disobedience. Whether you think it's "fair game" is always in the eye of the beholder when it comes to civil disobedience. I mostly bring it up because many people expressed a bit of shock that anyone could consider taking something from a grave. I'm saying, it's a political act. Maybe it's right or maybe it's wrong, but no one seemed to see it through that lens. More of a "gasp, a grave" sort of lens.

I agree. 

I also consider that choosing a Confederate flag over all the other possible markers to put on a grave, knowing the punch the symbol packs today, is also a political act.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Is that an inappropriate lens?

I can't promise I wouldn't be horrified if someone *stole* something I had placed on on DH's niche. 

 

No one has the right to make my family member their own personal political statement, regardless of whether that family member passed away in 2020 or over 100 yrs ago.  (Which, I don't know that I realized I felt that way until I typed it.  )

 

I don't think it's appropriate to turn people's grave's into political statements.  I think it's appropriate for people to attempt to honor the individuals, regardless of the personal knowledge or affiliation, but to attempt to utilize the grave for a political statement is wrong.  Planting a confederate flag for political reasons, or stealing one for political reasons both fall under that category for me. 

 

 

An neo-Confederate organization putting a current political symbol that was not the flag these soldiers fought under by and large on their graves when they’re not related to them is undoubtedly a political statement. Someone already made it into a political statement. It’s too late.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aside from it just being wrong to even think of doing that ....

I think Quill got clarification that this is some sort of historical education site.  Is it wrong that education about the civil war involves the Confederate flag at some point?  I mean the Confederacy is a fact of history.  A rather important fact, whether we like it or not.  Why would anyone assume that the presence of the Confederate flag in such a location is a promotion of the beliefs behind the actions of 160 years ago?

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Why would anyone assume that the presence of the Confederate flag in such a location is a promotion of the beliefs behind the actions of 160 years ago?

Because except in a museum or educational setting, displaying a flag is a symbol of support for whatever that flag stands for. That’s literally why people fly flags. Whether it be for their country, Pride, POWs, a political candidate or whatever else. That’s what makes a flag particularly problematic when flowers or something on the grave wouldn’t be. It’s a flag that symbolizes support of the Confederacy, which was for the purpose of continuing slavery. Do people fly or display flags of things they don’t believe in? 

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

re   why assume flying a flag means supporting an ideology?

7 hours ago, KSera said:

Because except in a museum or educational setting, displaying a flag is a symbol of support for whatever that flag stands for. That’s literally why people fly flags. Whether it be for their country, Pride, POWs, a political candidate or whatever else. That’s what makes a flag particularly problematic when flowers or something on the grave wouldn’t be. It’s a flag that symbolizes support of the Confederacy, which was for the purpose of continuing slavery. Do people fly or display flags of things they don’t believe in? 

This.

 

The Confederate flag actually was *not* uniformly used by the states fighting to uphold slavery; the Confederate government went through several design iterations before settling toward the end of the war on the current form; many state militias just used their existing state flags as the banner, and, well, the production of cotton cloth was interrupted by the war, there wasn't a lot of mass production at the time.  The odds that the soldier whose grave Quill walks past on her way to work fought under the current design are rather low.

The current design DID see a huge resurgence in the lynching era, festooning the Sunday picnics. Also regularly carried by the KKK, and "planted" alongside burning crosses. Also saw another resurgence in the time of Brown v BoE and the Voting Rights Act.  And of course there's been a yuge boom since 2016.

Choosing to fly the flag is choosing to publicly affiliate with this history and its ideology, as surely as choosing a rainbow flag represents a different affiliation.

That is literally what flying a flag means.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, KSera said:

Because except in a museum or educational setting, displaying a flag is a symbol of support for whatever that flag stands for. That’s literally why people fly flags. Whether it be for their country, Pride, POWs, a political candidate or whatever else. That’s what makes a flag particularly problematic when flowers or something on the grave wouldn’t be. It’s a flag that symbolizes support of the Confederacy, which was for the purpose of continuing slavery. Do people fly or display flags of things they don’t believe in? 

People place symbols of things to be regretted also.  Especially in connection with deaths.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

re symbology of regret

28 minutes ago, SKL said:

People place symbols of things to be regretted also.  Especially in connection with deaths.

I'm really struggling to come up with a single example, that could map to use of the Confderate flag as a symbol of regret. 

There are Holocaust memorials, but even those in Dachau and Auschwitz, where there certainly is historical context, do not include swastikas festively snapping in the breeze.  There are some small ones, behind glass, within well-curated exhibits.

There is a 9/11 memorial, but it does not include al Queda symbology, let alone flags.

There is a Hiroshima memorial. There is no American flag flying overhead to symbolize regret for the civilian lives lost.

 

I agree that there *are* markers of regret that people place on graves: letters, poems, dog tags, mementos.    I am really searching my mind for any place where flags, specifically, are used to impart regret.  Can you think of any?

Precisely because flags are intrinsically associated with collectives -- in their first use, as *banners on sticks held aloft* so fighters could literally see where their team physically was on the chaotic battleground -- the use of flags, specifically, to convey regret would suggest collective regret, regret on behalf of the identity group or ideology. 

And that's really not how Americans roll.  Even less so, folks still identifying Confederate in 2021.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...