Viral Video: Nude man enters women's locker room.

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Wait. What does Tamar Rice have to do with this thread? What kind of ignorance are you talking about?

I am totally confused.

Ignorance with respect to perceptions of age and maturity. She’s using ‘’white’ as the default for what men/boys look like, what ‘precocious’ puberty is, and how they develop. It’s the same thing that causes black girls to be assumed as older and more mature than they are. It’s      

Edited June 30, 2021 by desertflower
Curse word not allowed

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

So we are back to precocious puberty.

and I’m done this is ridiculous 

No.  Many non-white boys (and probably some white ones as well) have body hair at younger ages that is not outside of normal hormonal levels and is unrelated to precocious puberty itself.  My son was one of them.  Your ignorance is showing. 

[LMD]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Wait. What does Tamar Rice have to do with this thread? What kind of ignorance are you talking about?

I am totally confused.

If I was cynical, I might assume she's trying to inflame the thread and get it shut down.

Maybe in spaces where women are naked, err on the side of caution. I'm sure females of any colour would appreciate it.

Anyway, back to the grown ass entitled male exposing himself to women and girls (looked like some of those women and girls were bipoc? The woman in the video is latina I believe.) This isn't a grey area situation.

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Also, this is about a naked adult male in a woman-only area, not a little boy with his mom in the locker room at the Y. I think those are two entirely different situations.

The comment was made that male penises in women only spaces were always wrong.

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Ignorance with respect to perceptions of age and maturity. She’s using ‘’white’ the default for what men/boys look like, what ‘precocious’ puberty is, and how they develop. It’s the same thing that causes black girls to be assumed as older and more mature than they are. It’s bullshit.

 

5 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No.  Many non-white boys (and probably some white ones as well) have body hair at younger ages that is not outside of normal hormonal levels and is unrelated to precocious puberty itself.  My son was one of them.  Your ignorance is showing. 

Wow.

I thought she just meant that a little boy wouldn’t have gone through puberty at 8 years old unless it was a case of precocious puberty.

I feel like you’re looking for a reason to get offended here.

Also, if a child looks much older than his age, I think the courteous thing to do is find alternatives to the ladies locker room, or at least let the other women in there know that the child is only 8.

[1234]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

The comment was made that male penises in women only spaces were always wrong.

Yes, and truth be told I don’t think this is just about penises anyway. I don’t think those women and girls would have wanted a trans male in there either. 

The majority of trans people aren’t going be to be walking around naked in those spaces. There should be clear rules about that so everyone is aware and they should be enforced. But I just think many don’t want to share spaces with trans people period. 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The comment was made that male penises in women only spaces were always wrong.

I can’t speak for pinball, but I interpreted her statement to mean that adult male penises were wrong in women-only spaces. The thread is about a naked adult male, so I doubt she thought she had to clarify that she wasn’t talking about little kids.

[pinball]

5 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No.  Many non-white boys (and probably some white ones as well) have body hair at younger ages that is not outside of normal hormonal levels and is unrelated to precocious puberty itself.  My son was one of them.  Your ignorance is showing. 

Precocious puberty is defined as before age 9 for boys...there are some indications that children of color begin puberty earlier than white children on average but that doesn’t change the definition of precocious puberty. But all races of children seem to be entering puberty earlier on average.

 the early end of average is not the same as precocious.

[LucyStoner]

15 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Interesting. I’d never thought about where those neutral changing stalks came from. DS stopped swimming at 10 and hasn’t done anything in the last two years so I’m probably a little obsessed (read panicked) about him going to a sleep away camo with River activities. I made sure to mention that I wanted him to wear a swim vest at all times.

How I understand the camp panic when you are sending a kid with any degree of special need.  My younger son (autistic but less impacted than big brother) has been at camp since Sunday and I got a call from the nurse yesterday.  My stomach fell thinking something was wrong.  I was so relieved it was just her checking to see if he was right that one of his medications is optional (he is correct).  He’s apparently doing well.  He’s not a strong swimmer (I should probably shell out for him to have those private adaptive lessons too at some point) but they have them wearing life vests during all of the time they are rowing the canoes.  

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by LucyStoner

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Wow.

I thought she just meant that a little boy wouldn’t have gone through puberty at 8 years old unless it was a case of precocious puberty.

I feel like you’re looking for a reason to get offended here.

Also, if a child looks much older than his age, I think the courteous thing to do is find alternatives to the ladies locker room, or at least let the other women in there know that the child is only 8.

You are off your rocker. I was defending both my son and the millions of other black boys who don’t look like your definition of 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…15. They’re NOT men, they’re boys and the medical term IS NOT precocious puberty. It’s ‘expected’.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

Just now, LucyStoner said:

How I understand the camp panic when you are sending a kid with any degree of special need.  My younger son (autistic but less impacted than big brother) has been at camp since Sunday and I got a call from the nurse yesterday.  My stomach fell thinking something was wrong.  I was so relieved it was just her checking to see if he was right that one of his medications is optional.  He’s apparently doing well.  He’s not a strong swimmer (I May shell out for him to have those private adaptive lessons too at some point) but they have them wearing life vests during all of the time they are rowing the canoes.  

 

 I’m glad he’s doing well! Surprise calls from the camp nurse always give you that brief moment of panic!

[Catwoman]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

You are off your rocker. I was defending both my son and the millions of other black boys who don’t look like your definition of 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…15. They’re NOT men, they’re boys.

Who said they were men? 

What are you talking about?

Are you saying it’s ok to bring a 15yo boy into the ladies locker room? 

I have no idea how any of this relates to this thread.

You’re getting awfully aggressive.

[Rosie_0801]

The 'exploring the issues' tone of the previous page was much nicer and more productive.
If this thread devolves any further, I'll lock it.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

The 'exploring the issues' tone of the previous page was much nicer and more productive.
If this thread devolves any further, I'll lock it.

Thank you very much, Rosie. 

I will be sure that I don’t contribute any further to it. 

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

So if there is going to be a law requiring xys to be allowed in spaces designated for "women" where there will be some level of nudity, then there also needs to be a law requiring the provision of spaces where individuals who do not want to participate in that can have privacy.

The laws' effectiveness needs to be timed so that those of us who don't want to participate have said privacy before it becomes an issue.

And everyone using the facilities needs to be informed of the applicable laws and options, so they can make informed choices.

I really don't care if people are given the option of sharing a non-private space with diverse bodies.  You do you.  But as for me, I want privacy.  I look forward to the day when we can all have a totally private changing space, one way or another.  (As it is, I change in a toilet stall when privacy isn't available, even in a female-only space.)

Long, long ago in Junior High School, we had a lesbian gym teacher who used to watch us in the showers,  It was awful.  

[LMD]

9 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

Yes, and truth be told I don’t think this is just about penises anyway. I don’t think those women and girls would have wanted a trans male in there either. 

The majority of trans people aren’t going be to be walking around naked in those spaces. There should be clear rules about that so everyone is aware and they should be enforced. But I just think many don’t want to share spaces with trans people period. 

Female spaces for females. I wouldn't think women would be uncomfortable with females who have body/facial hair and mastectomies under any other circumstances (pcos, breast cancer etc). So no, it wouldn't bother me at all to share with an NB female or transman.

If a female has so modified their body to be unrecognisably female, and to be read as part of the sex class that is responsible for 98+% of sex crimes, then the courteous thing to do imo is not be naked in female only spaces.

Edited June 29, 2021 by LMD

[maize]

1 hour ago, Joker2 said:

The weird thing about these conversations  (keeping transwomen out of bathrooms, gyms, etc) for me is that trans people have always been in there and they will continue to be no matter how much you complain about it. Like many others have said, no trans person I know is going to walk around a public space like that naked. They will use those spaces to change and do their business but will do so in private. So, unless you’re going to start doing a genital check they will still continue to be in those spaces. 

I do agree with the above poster that there have definitely been a lot of anti trans threads on the board lately. It’s getting old.

Do you think it is reasonable for some women to want some spaces that are free from adult males? 

I'm unlikely to notice or care about a person presenting as female coming into the restroom, doing their thing, and leaving regardless of biological sex but there are absolutely situations where I would not want biological males. I want a legal right to maintain that boundary for myself and others.

The legal definition of "woman" matters and is going to continue to matter. 

This has nothing to do with thinking negatively of trans people or wanting them to suffer. 

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

Is it really that straightforward? There were lots of women who gave me the evil eye when I brought my 8yo son into the dressing room after swim lessons. Guess how many Fs I gave? I didn’t feel safe with him in a men’s dressing room alone and I didn’t have a male partner around to do the duties.

I think there should absolutely be provision made for children under twelve or so to be with a parent. In general I feel children should be welcome in most women's spaces.

I'm sorry people were rude and that black boys face so much discrimination.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, maize said:

Do you think it is reasonable for some women to want some spaces that are free from adult males? 

I'm unlikely to notice or care about a person presenting as female coming into the restroom, doing their thing, and leaving regardless of biological sex but there are absolutely situations where I would not want biological males. I want a legal right to maintain that boundary for myself and others.

The legal definition of "woman" matters and is going to continue to matter. 

This has nothing to do with thinking negatively of trans people or wanting them to suffer. 

I think there should absolutely be provision made for children under twelve or so to be with a parent. In general I feel children should be welcome in most women's spaces.

I'm sorry people were rude and that black boys face so much discrimination.

Thank you.

[Hyacinth]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The comment was made that male penises in women only spaces were always wrong.

I made that comment. I edited it to clarify adult penises and testicles.

[maize]

3 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Long, long ago in Junior High School, we had a lesbian gym teacher who used to watch us in the showers,  It was awful.  

That is absolutely awful.

 

And yet I would feel safer being naked with a lesbian woman than with a gay man. Gut feeling level. Few women have been raped by lesbians.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Hyacinth said:

I made that comment. I edited it to clarify adult penises and testicles.

That was, literally, my only point. I share the general discomfort with strange adult men in a place where I’m naked.

[Hyacinth]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

That was, literally, my only point. I share the general discomfort with strange adult men in a place where I’m naked.

And I appreciate the opportunity to clarify. I shouldn't have been so quick to reply.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Hyacinth said:

And I appreciate the opportunity to clarify. I shouldn't have been so quick to reply.

I’m famous for it. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[LMD]

2 minutes ago, maize said:

That is absolutely awful.

 

And yet I would feel safer being naked with a lesbian woman than with a gay man. Gut feeling level. Few women have been raped by lesbians.

Not just gut feeling, lived experience and overwhelming statistics. 

[maize]

When I went through military boot camp we had group showers. Females and males separate of course.

We showered, got out, and got dressed as quickly as we could. I didn't like group showers but I didn't feel unsafe.

I would have felt very, very differently if any of those I was showering with had a male body.

[TravelingChris]

12 minutes ago, maize said:

That is absolutely awful.

 

And yet I would feel safer being naked with a lesbian woman than with a gay man. Gut feeling level. Few women have been raped by lesbians.

Oh, I didn't feel unsafe.  I didn't think she was going to grab any of us.  But it was super creepy.

[Jenny in Florida]

Just FYI, folks, I need to, as the young'uns say, peace out of this thread, because I'm finding a lot of the comments upsetting. I don't want to break the board rules, but I also don't want to just disappear without apology and explanation. 

[LucyStoner]

2 hours ago, LMD said:

Not just gut feeling, lived experience and overwhelming statistics. 

Yes.  Women tend to react differently to adult male bodies than female ones.  If a strange dude follows me off the bus (this example has totally happened to me more than once), my assessment of what may happen next and what I might have to do to get home safely is waaaaay different than if some strange woman follows me off the bus.  I’m not going to consider the woman a threat unless I have cause to do so (I see she brandishing a weapon or she does something obviously dangerous).  I am going to presume a man who seems to be following me is a problem until he proves not to be.  That’s just reality.  Might not be fair but I don’t have to be be fair. It’s my absolute trust in my instincts that has helped me to get home safely every night since I was a teenager.  I’ve had some dicey situations over the years, as has nearly every woman I know.  

I may well have a heightened stress response due to my history but most women I know feel the same.  We can’t reasonably pretend that male bodied people don’t pose more risk to female people.  While most men aren’t rapists, most rapists are men and unfortunately the ones who are don’t wear signs clearly communicating what they are about to do next.  

In general, without thinking about it, I am clocking biological sex without any regard for the person’s identity because identity is simply irrelevant to someone accessing the safety of their surroundings.  My identity certainly was irrelevant to the men who have harassed, assaulted and tried to intimidate me over the years.  I was targeted because of my female body, not because anyone certified that I felt female.

Fear is not a politically correct process and fear is a valuable instinct for keeping people safe.  

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by LucyStoner

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Is it really that straightforward? There were lots of women who gave me the evil eye when I brought my 8yo son into the dressing room after swim lessons. Guess how many Fs I gave? I didn’t feel safe with him in a men’s dressing room alone and I didn’t have a male partner around to do the duties.

Why didn't you feel safe with him in the men's dressing room?  Because adult males are much bigger and stronger and could do serious damage to somebody smaller and weaker if they wanted to?  So how is that different from biological women not wanting to get dressed in the same room as biological men?

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Joker2 said:

Yes, and truth be told I don’t think this is just about penises anyway. I don’t think those women and girls would have wanted a trans male in there either. 

The majority of trans people aren’t going be to be walking around naked in those spaces. There should be clear rules about that so everyone is aware and they should be enforced. But I just think many don’t want to share spaces with trans people period. 

I don't know about you, but when I see someone unexpectedly expose his adult penis to me, my first thought isn't "my, I wonder if this person is trans?"

[SKL]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Long, long ago in Junior High School, we had a lesbian gym teacher who used to watch us in the showers,  It was awful.  

Same (except it was high school for me).  Eew.  Wrong.  And gym (including daily, public showers) was a requirement for graduation.

There was one girl who cussed at this teacher after she touched her while coming out of the shower.  She failed gym repeatedly until she had to give up on graduating.

Edited June 29, 2021 by SKL

[Sneezyone]

42 minutes ago, SKL said:

Why didn't you feel safe with him in the men's dressing room?  Because adult males are much bigger and stronger and could do serious damage to somebody smaller and weaker if they wanted to?  So how is that different from biological women not wanting to get dressed in the same room as biological men?

I didn’t feel comfortable because he was immature and lacked the ability to clearly vocalize whatever might  happen, whether it be looks, or something else. I don’t know that the bolded is different. I just know that my son needed to be with me, regardless of his anatomy.

[LucyStoner]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 I’m glad he’s doing well! Surprise calls from the camp nurse always give you that brief moment of panic!

My older son attended this camp for the first time back in 2018.  I kept waiting all week for a call that never came.  Then I did get a call.  It was my son.  I’m thinking dude, you made it all this time why are you calling me on the last day.  🤣 He was rightfully wondering why I wasn’t at the bus meet up to pick him up.  I was so careful about everything leading up to camp and worrying over if he was ready for sleep away  or not.  But I was apparently NOT careful about putting the pick up date in my phone calendar correctly.  I wasn’t there because I thought pick up was the next day. 🤣 As luck would have it, I was just 10 minutes away from the bus drop off because I had a client meeting nearby.  

Edited June 29, 2021 by LucyStoner

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Is it really that straightforward? There were lots of women who gave me the evil eye when I brought my 8yo son into the dressing room after swim lessons. Guess how many Fs I gave? I didn’t feel safe with him in a men’s dressing room alone and I didn’t have a male partner around to do the duties.

I frequently had that situation with my ds when he was younger, and wished there were far more family changing rooms. One of the places we did swim lessons at didn’t allow boys over 4 in the women’s locker room. That’s just ridiculous (we didn’t start there until he was much older—no way I could have sent him in alone at 5). I got the dirty looks sometimes, too. On the other hand, there was a point when there was one boy that joined his mom in the locker room, who had way too much interest in staring at the girls’ bodies in the room and his mom never diverted him. I started taking my kids to change in a different area because it was odd and uncomfortable. He was likely just curious, but he should have been getting instruction from his mom on proper behavior. 

2 hours ago, Joker2 said:

I do agree with the above poster that there have definitely been a lot of anti trans threads on the board lately. It’s getting old.

I don’t feel like the threads themselves have been anti-trans, except for this one. I was wary of this going that way when this one started, because bathrooms seem to be one of the primary anti-trans hot button issues. I think part of what the discussion on the other thread has tried to do is move past labeling any concerns about some of the current transgender issues and trends as being transphobic or anti trans, and allow more nuance. I felt like that was (miraculously) able to happen in that space, though as I I have mentioned perhaps more than once, I have been worried throughout about having such open conversations in a space where they may be  used by anti trans people. The bathroom issue is personally a bit fraught for me, because as a nb person, my kid has no ideal way to navigate it in spaces that don’t offer private spaces. 

2 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

My older son really never learned to swim before this spring.  I finally bit the bullet and started paying ~1/2 a gazillion dollars a week for 1-1 private adaptive swim lessons.  He’s never going to be a serious swimmer but he can finally float and stick his face in the water and is starting to learn to paddle a bit.  He was motivated to do this because he wants to go to canoe camp this summer and he wants to row crew next year and I told him boat sports = needing to know the basics of not drowning.  

So the gazillion dollar lessons work well enough to make it worth it? I looked into that for one of mine who has not progressed with standard lessons, but the price was shocking. But I don’t know how else they’re going to get swimming, and they have reached the age they are not going to be able to join friends for swimming parties, the lake, camp, etc. 

1 hour ago, LMD said:

Female spaces for females. I wouldn't think women would be uncomfortable with females who have body/facial hair and mastectomies under any other circumstances (pcos, breast cancer etc). So no, it wouldn't bother me at all to share with an NB female or transman.

If a female has so modified their body to be unrecognisably female, and to be read as part of the sex class that is responsible for 98+% of sex crimes, then the courteous thing to do imo is not be naked in female only spaces.

I agree most women probably wouldn’t mind once they realized the person had no male sex organs, but how does that person initially enter the space if they don’t “read” as female when clothed? If someone looks like a man, but has a female body, women are going to feel uncomfortable when he enters their space. Such individuals don’t have an ideal space unless private, because changing in the men’s room and exposing their female body in there is something that (from my parent point of view) feels very risky to them. 

[Melissa Louise]

6 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I want privacy, too. But it's not due to a trans woman potentially being there. It's that I have enough something (modesty, dysphoria, or whatever you want to call it) that I seriously prefer NOT to be nude around people I don't know, nor to see the nudity of others. 

 

It's got nothing to do with trans people being there, and everything to do with a naked male (of whatever gender identity) being in a space set aside for naked females. 

Seriously, I do not understand why it's suddenly progressive to give women two choices - either mixed sex everything, or you get nothing/get hived off into an individual space. 

What's so offensive and dangerous and regressive about females sometimes being in a single sex space?

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I don't know about you, but when I see someone unexpectedly expose his adult penis to me, my first thought isn't "my, I wonder if this person is trans?"

Nobody in their right minds would think that. 'Gee, I wonder if this is a female penis, because it so, I have a totally different reaction to being exposed to it without my consent.'

 

[LucyStoner]

20 minutes ago, KSera said:

So the gazillion dollar lessons work well enough to make it worth it? I looked into that for one of mine who has not progressed with standard lessons, but the price was shocking. But I don’t know how else they’re going to get swimming, and they have reached the age they are not going to be able to join friends for swimming parties, the lake, camp, etc. 

We have found it to be worth it.  We can only afford one lesson a week so we supplement that with practicing at non-lesson times.  It was cost prohibitive for us for a long time.  It’s crazy butt expensive.  ETA:  when my son wanted to skip a lesson, I was like “think again dude, think again…if I am paying someone that much, he needs to show up.  🤣

Edited June 29, 2021 by LucyStoner

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Wait. What does Tamir Rice have to do with this thread? What kind of ignorance are you talking about?

I am totally confused.

It's a tactic used to smear women who would prefer people with d***s to stay out of places women get naked/are otherwise vulnerable.  Call them racist, hope the mud sticks, bingo! Nobody will take women seriously anymore. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Oh, I didn't feel unsafe.  I didn't think she was going to grab any of us.  But it was super creepy.

Adults shouldn't be watching teens shower, regardless of sex or orientation. 

 

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, maize said:

That is absolutely awful.

 

And yet I would feel safer being naked with a lesbian woman than with a gay man. Gut feeling level. Few women have been raped by lesbians.

Males - 97% of sexual assaults.

Females - the remaining 3%, often in concert with a male. 

If you want to gamble with your safety, and you have no other information than sex, you'd choose female bodies to be around every single time. 

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, Paige said:

Would we be any more comfortable with trans men in the women's nude area? So, a person who looks like a man except for the genitals? Or would we be comfortable with intersex nude people who perhaps have a small penis but feel more comfortable in the women's area?

I don't know. I don't know how you would enforce any of it. Would a rule of no exposed D- be possible? But I'm not sure that would help prevent creepy men who are doing it on purpose until it's too late. We can't have a rule that you have to "look like a woman" to go inside because then less feminine looking females or trans men not allowed in the men's room could be harassed. 

In this circumstance, it's hard to know what to think given I don't see any explanation from the person with the D- in the women's room. I suspect he's an exhibitionist pervert who identifies as male and is in no way trans. I think it's a difficult period for society because everyone is still figuring out how to respond. 

In the circumstances, there was a mixed sex spa. Transmen who look visibly male could use it. People with a micro penis could use it. 

Everyone is so keen to think about the needs of everyone EXCEPT females. 

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No.  Many non-white boys (and probably some white ones as well) have body hair at younger ages that is not outside of normal hormonal levels and is unrelated to precocious puberty itself.  My son was one of them.  Your ignorance is showing. 

Mine was one of them too. He came in with me up to 8 (the allowed age). He changed in the family room with me till 11. He changed in the men's room thereafter. 

Nothing whatsoever to do with a grown man going naked in a women's only spa area. 

 

[Clarita]

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Honest question — How do we, as biological women, know when we are “being played” when we are in a women’s locker room and a biological, non-surgically-transitioned male walks around naked in there with us? How can we determine if that person is a trans woman or just some random pervert getting his jollies by walking around in a women’s locker room? We can’t. We have no way of knowing. And we deserve to feel safe.

On the flip-side how do we, as biological women, know when a random pervert biological women is walking around the locker room getting her jollies on? I don't, I have no way of knowing. And yes, with my life experience, I actually don't feel comfortable in an all female locker room either.

It's wrong for anyone of any gender/genitalia to be a pervert in public spaces. I'd open to a time limit in the locker room and banning of "air drying".

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Clarita said:

On the flip-side how do we, as biological women, know when a random pervert biological women is walking around the locker room getting her jollies on? I don't, I have no way of knowing. And yes, with my life experience, I actually don't feel comfortable in an all female locker room either.

It's wrong for anyone of any gender/genitalia to be a pervert in public spaces. I'd open to a time limit in the locker room and banning of "air drying".

Same. I’ve never been comfy in these spaces, even when only women are present. I get in, get out, and go home.

[Dmmetler]

9 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

In the circumstances, there was a mixed sex spa. Transmen who look visibly male could use it. People with a micro penis could use it. 

Everyone is so keen to think about the needs of everyone EXCEPT females. 

K have seen no one say this particular guy should have been walking in the women's spa letting  it all hang out. 

 

But, I am seeing this particular video used to support a law in my state that, very literally, requires stores to be the bathroom police and promise that there won't be anyone with a penis in the shared bathroom at the local department store or grocery. Which I can see going bad in so many ways-like yelling at a mom who needs to bring her 8 yr old in, or women with broad shoulders and short hair being harrassed because they look too mannish. It basically means that if you want to use the bathroom in a Business you have to fit the gender mold. 

 

I have REAL problems with a case of someone being a total jerk being used to defend a law that is going to increase harrassment for those who are not gender conforming. If anything, it increases the gender binary and gap, not reducing it-and the rationale given is protecting women.

[Melissa Louise]

5 minutes ago, Clarita said:

On the flip-side how do we, as biological women, know when a random pervert biological women is walking around the locker room getting her jollies on? I don't, I have no way of knowing. And yes, with my life experience, I actually don't feel comfortable in an all female locker room either.

It's wrong for anyone of any gender/genitalia to be a pervert in public spaces. I'd open to a time limit in the locker room and banning of "air drying".

Do you understand that 'perversions' - ugly way to say fetish or paraphilias - are vastly more likely in males?

I have an abuse history with a female parent - it hasn't wrecked my sense of relative risk. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Clarita said:

On the flip-side how do we, as biological women, know when a random pervert biological women is walking around the locker room getting her jollies on? I don't, I have no way of knowing. And yes, with my life experience, I actually don't feel comfortable in an all female locker room either.

It's wrong for anyone of any gender/genitalia to be a pervert in public spaces. I'd open to a time limit in the locker room and banning of "air drying".

We don’t know. You’re right about that. But I don’t think that is an excuse for allowing a man to walk around naked in a women-only area. 

I could do without the “air drying,” too! And if anyone here is one of those women who likes to sit around the locker room and chat with friends for an hour or so while you’re all naked, could you possibly at least sit on a towel? Because at some point, I might need to sit down on that bench, and .... well ... yuck. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Dmmetler said:

K have seen no one say this particular guy should have been walking in the women's spa letting  it all hang out. 

 

But, I am seeing this particular video used to support a law in my state that, very literally, requires stores to be the bathroom police and promise that there won't be anyone with a penis in the shared bathroom at the local department store or grocery. Which I can see going bad in so many ways-like yelling at a mom who needs to bring her 8 yr old in, or women with broad shoulders and short hair being harrassed because they look too mannish. It basically means that if you want to use the bathroom in a Business you have to fit the gender mold. 

 

I have REAL problems with a case of someone being a total jerk being used to defend a law that is going to increase harrassment for those who are not gender conforming. If anything, it increases the gender binary and gap, not reducing it-and the rationale given is protecting women.

Ok. So I guess women who don't want penis in their space just get with the program or stay home. 

How flipping hard would it be for penis people to stay out of space set aside for vulva people? 

 

[LucyStoner]

13 minutes ago, Clarita said:

On the flip-side how do we, as biological women, know when a random pervert biological women is walking around the locker room getting her jollies on? I don't, I have no way of knowing. And yes, with my life experience, I actually don't feel comfortable in an all female locker room either.

It's wrong for anyone of any gender/genitalia to be a pervert in public spaces. I'd open to a time limit in the locker room and banning of "air drying".

It’s a numbers game.  How many random women are perverts or pose a threat to women and girls?  Equality doesn’t mean pretending that females are equally likely to be pervy boundary violators as males are.  They are not.  

This was a spa.  Not a change room.  If it’s anything like the spa that I occasionally go to, there’s a clear understanding that clothing isn’t usually allowed in the sauna rooms or soaking pools.  If I wish to use those spaces (and I do, especially the soaking pools), I have to be ok with nudity.  If I checked in, paid my money and realized males could self ID as women?  Yeah, they’d be refunding me my money.  ETA: I wouldn’t use soaking or heat spa facilities in co-ed settings.  

Edited June 29, 2021 by LucyStoner

[Melissa Louise]

4 hours ago, *Jessica* said:

I haven’t and won’t watch the video so I can’t speak to the current topic, but I can’t continue to ignore the transphobia that is so pervasive on this board.

Transgender individuals are 4 times as likely to be victims of violence as cisgender individuals.  Transwomen are 1.8 times as likely to experience sexual violence as ciswomen.  No matter how scared you are, trans individuals have more to fear.  

Reading this and other current threads has made me physically ill.  As the mother of a trans daughter I am saddened by the disregard most of the posters have for transgender individuals.  

Transwomen are not men!

Transwomen are transwomen. Not female. 

I have a son with GD. Currently, psychotherapy is helping, but transition in adulthood is not entirely off the table. 

Damn right I'd tell her (if he transitions) to stay the hell out of the single sex spa. Especially if she,.like the vast majority of transwomen, kept her penis. 

Females are allowed to have boundaries about male bodies. The love I have for my child doesn't change that.