House rules on phone, communication, driving with older friend for 15 yo

[Acadie]

Deleted--thank you, Hive. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Acadie

[HomeAgain]

I don't want to step on toes, so I'm just going to say how this works in our own house, and you can take out the relevant bits. 🙂

We define our house rules by what their purpose is.  So there might be a catch-all rule like "be safe", but we might have more explicit talks about what "be safe" looks like in practice:
-someone knowing where you are at all times.  If there's ever an emergency, we can find each other easier.  DH rides 30-40 miles at a time on his bike, crossing busy roads.  You can bet your rear that I can track him, so if it's been a while, I know where to find him.  If I hear of an accident through our town's Facebook page and I know ds is coming home that way, I can check in and make sure he's okay.  If I'm going out, the family knows where I'm going and about when I'm coming back.  This is a being safe rule that is just normal adulting when you live with people or have a relationship with them.

-There's no driving with new drivers after dark.  New is anyone who has had their license less than 2 years or is under 18.  It's a family rule born out of way too many statistics with young drivers, so we cut our risks.  Kid can go after school or at lunch, but not into the evening when depth perception might shift.  This isn't adulting, but it's our hard line in our parenting.  And there's an even firmer line when it comes to any sort of intoxication - which saved ds's life a few years ago.  It was one of those things we ingrained in him so hard. He was over 18, at college, but noticed the friend was drinking.  So when the party decided to move to a new location, he declined, got some friends to stay as well, but others chose to leave.  They were in an accident 15 minutes later, speeding down the highway.  It was the scariest "thanks for loving me, mom" text I have ever gotten in my life, and I don't think ds ever knew my real reaction to getting that note at 2am.

The list goes on, but it's helpful for US to clarify what the rule is supposed to do, and what the honest reason for it is.  It keeps it a line of respect and expectations for growing up.

[Sneezyone]

So, this is tricky. I’ve found that I have one child who needs to touch the fire before learning lessons but, thereafter, is fine. I have another who is content to observe and learn by osmosis. We allow our experiential learner to have enough rope to make MINOR mistakes and then reign in, knowing the lesson(s) are absorbed. 
 

Personally, I would not be blaming or holding it against the new friend that he/she has experienced trauma. Lots of people have. My brother was shot in a drive by when I was 19. I wasn’t a bad influence. 
 

I am much more concerned with, and tend to focus on, helping my experiential learner distinguish between safe/unsafe behaviors/choices AND explicitly defining our household bottom lines. 
 

We have a driver now who has a car but trips do not occur without our knowledge for EITHER child. Detours are to be shared with a parent. Tracking is enabled on phones at all times. Our driver is not a passenger in other new driver vehicles after dark. Our driver cannot transport anyone but family for 6 months and may have no more than one passenger. We think this is reasonable. If problems arise, we reserve the right to reevaluate and revise the rules. Obv. This is also contingent on maintaining household obligations and grades.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Sneezyone

[LMD]

It's so hard, isn't it! We have a similar situation. Dd, nearly 16, lots of her friends have licences and cars and - being 18ish - much more freedom. 

We try to be not-too-controlling. I try to tether any issues more to dd's behaviour than her friends'. So, in your example, the not being forthcoming (that's the most generous interpretation) about where she is and with whom would need addressing in my house. It would be framed as 'abusing my trust is not mature behaviour, if you act in childish ways I'll be forced to treat you as a child' <- that is the same framing for things like staying up late on the phone. This also ties in things like keeping up with schoolwork and chores and just being generally a pleasant part of the family.

I also would be checking the phone too, but we've had some issues there. I frame it as 'I'm not interested in snooping on your conversations (as if I have nothing better to do!) but if you give me reason to be suspicious - things like being secretive, hiding phone screens when I walk past etc - then it's my job as a mum to investigate. This is a delicate dance and I have occasionally overstepped, but we try to be open and honest.

I have also found having dad being involved as much as possible to be immensely helpful, ymmv. My dd is a lot like her dad! 

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

We define our house rules by what their purpose is.  So there might be a catch-all rule like "be safe", but we might have more explicit talks about what "be safe" looks like in practice:
-someone knowing where you are at all times.  If there's ever an emergency, we can find each other easier.  DH rides 30-40 miles at a time on his bike, crossing busy roads.  You can bet your rear that I can track him, so if it's been a while, I know where to find him.  If I hear of an accident through our town's Facebook page and I know ds is coming home that way, I can check in and make sure he's okay.  If I'm going out, the family knows where I'm going and about when I'm coming back.  This is a being safe rule that is just normal adulting when you live with people or have a relationship with them.

Thank you--this is a helpful lens, to prioritize the purpose of adulting and general safety in the way we think of and communicate house rules. 

 

 

[BusyMom5]

We haven't had too many troubles,  but we do have rules.

1.  Phones all go away at night, they do not charge in their rooms.  16 year old- off by 9-930, 18 year old- who knows but she realizes putting it away helps her sleep. 

2.  We know where you are at, at all times, for safety reasons.  Its common courtesy,  DH and I let each other know where we are, and next year when older one goes away, I tell her that sll 4 roommates should keep general track of each other- for safety.   Its not controlling,  we aren't spying on them, but we need to know where they are.  For my drivers, this means checking in every few stops- heading to bank, heading home, today DD called bc she took an alternate route and knew she needed to let me know.

3.  I’ve only read 1 kids phone, 1 time, and it was at 16 and due to lying.  She was there, she knew she broke the rule (no online friends I don't know IRL), and afterwards she had to read a bunch of catfishing stuff and got phone taken away.  

 

She lied about where she was today- she knows it and so do you- and she knows you know.  She is testing you, your boundaries, and seeing what is allowed.  That's normal.  Ball is in your court.  I'd be firm.  You lied about where you were, loss of trust, now supervised on your job.  I'd get the phone and tell her a break in trust in one area shows that she cannot be trusted- and I'd look through it while she is there.  Give her a chance to "do the mature thing and come clean" before you do.  I'm not sure what to think about the other kid, not sure that I would do much besides put in some more strict boundaries regarding where they go and how often they see each other.  Of she hasn't got enough to do, find her more things!  Boredom makes this worse!

Edited June 23, 2021 by BusyMom5

[HomeAgain]

I forgot to add the flip side to our rules.

We've very rarely had a serious rule broken, but our response has always been the same: if you can't handle the responsibility of it, you don't get the privilege of the independence.  It's an immediate cut-off and restriction, a sort of tomato-staking.  A parent accompanies the child to any and all outings, and privileges are given back little by little as we find a balance that works for the moment, always reassessing down the road and doing case-by-case approvals.

It can seem like we're really strict, and we probably are with our response.  It works in this house, though, because it doesn't require grounding for a specified time (I'd forget) or yelling or some punishment that is not quite connected.  It's a very clear, "you're not handling this, Little Bunny Foo-Foo. We'll go back to what it looked like when you were handling your responsibilities successfully and move from there again."

[Farrar]

Obviously this is just my personal take, but I'd come down a bit about the lying about where she was today, but then I'd loosen the reins a bit overall once she's regained trust. But that's because I think you're overall being stricter than I would for my 16 yos. Like, I'd let mine go to the beach for the day with friends if I knew the driver and was okay with them. And we literally live in the middle of the city so obviously they can drive here. Or to the burbs. That all just seems super restrictive to me with no reason. And I do let mine stay up half the night. It's summer. They have nowhere to be. I don't care when they sleep. What's it to me as long as they do the things they need to do? My philosophy is to give as much room as possible as long as behavior is still okay and home expectations are still met. So that would apply to the phone too. I would never read my kids' texts unless I felt they were in danger somehow - because their behavior had become dangerous in some way. I will take the phone away as a consequence if it's abused - that's different to me.

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Obviously this is just my personal take, but I'd come down a bit about the lying about where she was today, but then I'd loosen the reins a bit overall once she's regained trust. But that's because I think you're overall being stricter than I would for my 16 yos. Like, I'd let mine go to the beach for the day with friends if I knew the driver and was okay with them. And we literally live in the middle of the city so obviously they can drive here. Or to the burbs. That all just seems super restrictive to me with no reason. And I do let mine stay up half the night. It's summer. They have nowhere to be. I don't care when they sleep. What's it to me as long as they do the things they need to do? My philosophy is to give as much room as possible as long as behavior is still okay and home expectations are still met. So that would apply to the phone too. I would never read my kids' texts unless I felt they were in danger somehow - because their behavior had become dangerous in some way. I will take the phone away as a consequence if it's abused - that's different to me.

She just turned 15. I don't know if the friend recently turned 17 or is closer to 18. Would that make any difference to you? A recent 14 year-old with someone who could be close to legal adulthood? 

Dd has known this friend for 3 weeks and we've never met the family. I have no idea what kind of driver. I'm open to this friend but just don't know them yet. 

Sigh. I think I was spoiled by our homeschooling years where I knew the kids and parents, for the most part. 

ETA: She's running club track and competing at Regionals this week. So no school, but needs sleep. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Acadie

[Terabith]

My youngest kid, a girl who just turned 16, her ENTIRE friend group is a group of boys who are 18.  (Well, one might not turn 18 till this summer.). They've been friends for at least six years.  She has ridden in cars with them.  There have even been a couple sleepovers in common rooms where parents were around.  

My kids have very active online lives and have for a long time.  There have been issues with staying up too late, and with drama, but they've been good learning experiences, and I feel like we have a relationship that is very open, honest, forthright, and trusting.  

Obviously, things can change.  And different kids obviously need different things.  But I prefer to hold tight to very few rules and to extend massive amounts of trust, because I feel like the real safety comes from open and honest communication.  

That said, disappearing and lying about where you are would be a problem.  I'm not sure what I'd do, but there would be a serious discussion and then we'd go from there.  Family members need to know where other family members are.  

[Acadie]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

My youngest kid, a girl who just turned 16, her ENTIRE friend group is a group of boys who are 18.  (Well, one might not turn 18 till this summer.). They've been friends for at least six years.  She has ridden in cars with them.  There have even been a couple sleepovers in common rooms where parents were around.  

It would feel very different to me with kids who have been friends for years.

[Sneezyone]

The staying up late bits come with natural consequences, IMO. If grades slip, that’s a problem for/with me. If EC performance suffers, that’s a problem only for DC. I would expect coaches to address that. My DD has a birthday at the start of the school year and many of her friends are, by grade, older but by age, the same. I imagine it works in reverse for other kids who are young by age but peers by grade. I’m not sure that age differential is big enough for me to worry.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Acadie]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

So, this is tricky. I’ve found that I have one child who needs to touch the fire before learning lessons but, thereafter, is fine. I have another who is content to observe and learn by osmosis. We allow our experiential learner to have enough rope to make MINOR mistakes and then reign in, knowing the lesson(s) are absorbed. 
 

Personally, I would not be blaming or holding it against the new friend that he/she has experienced trauma. Lots of people have. My brother was shot in a drive by when I was 19. I wasn’t a bad influence. 
 

I am much more concerned with, and tend to focus on, helping my experiential learner distinguish between safe/unsafe behaviors/choices AND explicitly defining our household bottom lines. 

Really appreciate this distinction between learning by osmosis vs. experience. Dd can learn theoretically about the physical world but when it comes to her emotional life and relationships she seems to need to touch the fire much more than our older daughter. She's a passionate empath who loves to be in love. You've helped me see that this is how she's going to learn who she is and how she wants to be in the world. But it's not easy as a parent. 

I'm sorry to hear about your brother and deeply regret that it sounded like I was blaming this friend for the trauma she's experienced. That's not how I feel or what I intended but rereading my post I see why it came across that way. At the risk of digging myself in further, when I first met this girl I immediately felt protective of her (the friend, I mean) and I don't know why. 

There's a lot more I could say but it's time to talk with dd. 

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Acadie said:

She just turned 15. I don't know if the friend recently turned 17 or is closer to 18. Would that make any difference to you? A recent 14 year-old with someone who could be close to legal adulthood? 

Dd has known this friend for 3 weeks and we've never met the family. I have no idea what kind of driver. I'm open to this friend but just don't know them yet. 

Sigh. I think I was spoiled by our homeschooling years where I knew the kids and parents, for the most part. 

ETA: She's running club track and competing at Regionals this week. So no school, but needs sleep. 

So, maybe a little. But not a lot. 

I'm a pretty lax parent. It's worked out fine for us - which is not to say it's the right approach for everyone or will work for every kid. Kids around here don't drive very often so we haven't run into this very much, but we did allow other things I know some parents do not... I mean, basically, you may or may not have an issue with my parenting choices in a more general sense so you can't take my advice with a giant grain of salt.

When I've needed to step in, I have and things have either improved or they haven't, but dc get the consequences. With the staying up and having commitments, ds is teching for a show all week. He was up playing Valorant last night with friends. I sent dh to go remind him has to get up at 7 am to go work ALL DAY. He knew. He was already winding down. But if he'd been like, it's fine and stayed up... that would have been on him to be miserable and tired and outside all day today. I just think that's an appropriate consequence for that. If it became a big recurring behavior with lots of attitude and sliding performance, then we'd address it in various ways - both strategizing together as it unfolded - and then eventually maybe with some consequences for not fulfilling obligations at home or mental health degrading.

For me - and I think for my kids - the key element here is that if there are consequences, it's not for staying up late or whatever. It's for the specific things that suffered as a result. I think it's key to help your dd understand if you dole out a consequence, it's not for "seeing her friend." It's for lying. And I'd let her decide to stay up and ruin her own track meet if she didn't heed my warnings. I mean, it's her track meet, not mine. When they're younger, I say when they go to bed. When they leave for college or life, they decide when they go to bed. Now, as teenagers, I *remind* them of the schedules and potential consequences and support them... but the bedtime is up to them. 

[Acadie]

Thanks so much to everyone who chimed in here. Dh and I both really appreciate hearing from other parents of teens as we sort through this. When we talked with dd about what happened yesterday there were further obfuscations so her phone and laptop are on pause while we clarify and reset our agreements on safety, communication and technology use.

She will have her phone for a few hours this weekend at her track meet and does have permission to be in touch with friends then. We chose to do that to emphasize that this is about safety and communication within our family, not about cutting her off from friends. If we can successfully sort out the issues she'll have her devices back Monday, subject to the clarified agreements. 

It was helpful to get the feedback that we're being stricter than some families. I'm going to keep that advice close to my heart and reevaluate going forward. For right now, I feel like I need to go with my gut that some boundaries or speed bumps to slow the pace of this relationship are necessary. Before we talked with her last night, there were plans afoot to go alone with this friend to a concert 2.5 hours away, and that's another thing that's in the okay-with-a-parent category for me, at least given that this is a 3 week old friendship. Friend jokes that her parents don't ask what she's doing because they don't want to know, and our family just works differently. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Acadie

[Junie]

There's a lot about this new friendship that makes me uncomfortable.  If these girls had been friends for years, I think it would be much different.  This feels like a new relationship (romantic or not) that is just moving too fast.  

If this were a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, I think many of us would be seeing red flags.  I think the same red flags might apply here.

If this were my child, I would be reining in this friendship by inserting myself into it as much as possible.

[Acadie]

11 minutes ago, Junie said:

There's a lot about this new friendship that makes me uncomfortable.  If these girls had been friends for years, I think it would be much different.  This feels like a new relationship (romantic or not) that is just moving too fast.  

If this were a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, I think many of us would be seeing red flags.  I think the same red flags might apply here.

If this were my child, I would be reining in this friendship by inserting myself into it as much as possible.

We learned last night it is a romantic relationship. So yes, I'm seeing red flags with the intensity, age difference, dishonesty, and the fact that dd hasn't seen other friends in 3 weeks. And that she brought this person to the houses where she walks dogs and pet sits. Friend did not go indoors, but we told her that her clients are not only counting on her to take care of their pets, but to be responsible with the security of their home in their absence. Letting other people know they're out of town or at work all day is a serious breach of trust and judgment. She gets that now. 

[Sneezyone]

42 minutes ago, Acadie said:

We learned last night it is a romantic relationship. So yes, I'm seeing red flags with the intensity, age difference, dishonesty, and the fact that dd hasn't seen other friends in 3 weeks. And that she brought this person to the houses where she walks dogs and pet sits. Friend did not go indoors, but we told her that her clients are not only counting on her to take care of their pets, but to be responsible with the security of their home in their absence. Letting other people know they're out of town or at work all day is a serious breach of trust and judgment. She gets that now. 

Oh, yeah, no. These would all be indications that a firmer hand is definitely required. That’s a whole lot of bad judgment right there, including the unsupervised concert 2.5 hours away.  ETA: my experiential learner tried ALL of this last year (pre-COVID). We haven’t had any issues this year tho.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

I guess I'm not seeing what's concerning about taking a friend to a pet sitting job. They went so she could responsibly do her job and she asked the new girlfriend to wait outside while she did the things she needed to do? What's alarming about that? Or they walked a dog together? I have a couple of friends who are professional pet walkers. I've literally done this with one of them. Wait outside. They join me back outside. We take a walk while they do their job and take care of the dog.

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I guess I'm not seeing what's concerning about taking a friend to a pet sitting job. They went so she could responsibly do her job and she asked the new girlfriend to wait outside while she did the things she needed to do? What's alarming about that? Or they walked a dog together? I have a couple of friends who are professional pet walkers. I've literally done this with one of them. Wait outside. They join me back outside. We take a walk while they do their job and take care of the dog.

I hear you, and what you describe doesn't sound alarming at all. My guess is you didn't just meet your dog walker friend and aren't super intense about being together all the time.

Everything about this is inflected through the age/experience differential, the speed and intensity of the relationship, and the fact that the goalpost keeps moving out. Friend seems available almost anytime and I don't want this to become the norm because dd hasn't really had time to get to know this person yet. If we were to green light friend joining her at her jobs my sense is it will keep happening, and who knows if they would go inside another week. 

I asked dd why she hasn't been getting together with other friends and she said, they don't have cars! (Though they can walk and bike and get a ride to all kinds of places.) I think it's a pretty heady experience to have someone with a car who will drive or meet her anywhere, and I definitely want to protect the times she's already committed to doing other things. There's something enveloping about this relationship.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Acadie

[Catwoman]

I am seeing so many red flags here, and I didn’t even see the original post before you deleted it. 

If this is a romantic relationship, I think it needs to be viewed exactly the same way as if a newly-15yo girl was dating an 18yo guy. Just because this is another girl doesn’t make it any less concerning to me, aside from the obvious possible pregnancy issue if it was a guy.

If your dd has always been an honest kid and she is suddenly lying or omitting information, I would have strong suspicions that the new “friend” is encouraging that kind of behavior.

Do you allow dating at 15? Because if you don’t, the time to put a stop to this relationship is right now, before it gets even more intense. If this was just a friendship, I wouldn’t be crazy about it, but the romantic aspect is very concerning to me, because I wouldn’t want my 15yo possibly getting involved in a s*xual relationship with anyone at that age — and too much time alone in a car, at dogsitting jobs, or anywhere where no other friends are present, might lead to exactly that. 

The relationship seems to be moving way too quickly, and I’m also more than a little worried about an 18yo girl pursuing a romantic relationship with a girl who is so much younger. I’m sorry to sound so suspicious of the older girl’s motives, but I just am. Something seems very wrong here, and I worry about your dd.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I guess I'm not seeing what's concerning about taking a friend to a pet sitting job. They went so she could responsibly do her job and she asked the new girlfriend to wait outside while she did the things she needed to do? What's alarming about that? Or they walked a dog together? I have a couple of friends who are professional pet walkers. I've literally done this with one of them. Wait outside. They join me back outside. We take a walk while they do their job and take care of the dog.

The concern may very well be that the girls are both alone inside the house and possibly getting “romantic” on the client’s sofa instead of taking care of the pets. 

I wouldn’t be excited about my newly 15yo child and her romantic interest having much unsupervised time together in someone’s home. I don’t think a child that age is ready for s*xual intimacy, and we have no way of knowing the intentions of the much older girl.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Oh, yeah, no. These would all be indications that a firmer hand is definitely required. That’s a whole lot of bad judgment right there, including the unsupervised concert 2.5 hours away.  ETA: my experiential learner tried ALL of this last year (pre-COVID). We haven’t had any issues this year tho.

I agree completely. 

And we aren’t even talking about two 15yo kids. The 18yo sounds manipulative to me. 

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, Junie said:

There's a lot about this new friendship that makes me uncomfortable.  If these girls had been friends for years, I think it would be much different.  This feels like a new relationship (romantic or not) that is just moving too fast.  

If this were a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, I think many of us would be seeing red flags.  I think the same red flags might apply here.

If this were my child, I would be reining in this friendship by inserting myself into it as much as possible.

Yes! If the older girl genuinely likes Acadie’s dd as a friend, she shouldn’t have a problem abiding by Acadie’s rules, even if she also has a romantic interest in her. 

I have a feeling that the 18yo may not hang around for very long if she doesn’t have enough time alone with Acadie’s dd. I hope I am completely misjudging the girl, but I don’t like the influence she is having on Acadie’s dd — it’s certainly not positive, and it’s leading to dishonesty and deception. 

My personal feeling is that Acadie’s dd is too young for this kind of romantic relationship. I know others may disagree.

[Sneezyone]

For me, the biggest issue is the dishonesty. I need to be able to trust your judgment, whomever you’re with, whenever you’re with them. Not disclosing the romantic nature of the ‘friendship’, or making plans without consulting with us (we do have other family things going on), would be major problems. Having a romantic interest doesn’t bother me, they come and go too quickly for me to get attached, but the hiding…hard no. I prefer they go about in groups until I’m comfy with all the new friends too.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

34 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

The concern may very well be that the girls are both alone inside the house and possibly getting “romantic” on the client’s sofa instead of taking care of the pets. 

I wouldn’t be excited about my newly 15yo child and her romantic interest having much unsupervised time together in someone’s home. I don’t think a child that age is ready for s*xual intimacy, and we have no way of knowing the intentions of the much older girl.

They literally didn't go in the house together? Unless that was a lie, in which case, yeah, concerning. But otherwise nothing the OP said indicated they sneaked into someone else's home. That's just parental fear not grounded in anything.

I hear that it's scary that it's sudden and intense. I get that that's a concern. I'd also be concerned - especially about dropping old friends. But also, it seems totally appropriate to me that a new first relationship feels intense to a kid. I think the focus has to be on the behavior, not the feelings of intensity. Like, you can't punish a kid for how they feel or narrow the rules to try and change it - that's a losing proposition. You can only punish the ways that those feelings end up interfering with actual obligations or rules. So I think that's the focus. Not being allowed to be alone in a random house together is a totally reasonable rule... that there's no indication they broke.

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

They literally didn't go in the house together? Unless that was a lie, in which case, yeah, concerning. But otherwise nothing the OP said indicated they sneaked into someone else's home. That's just parental fear not grounded in anything.

I hear that it's scary that it's sudden and intense. I get that that's a concern. I'd also be concerned - especially about dropping old friends. But also, it seems totally appropriate to me that a new first relationship feels intense to a kid. I think the focus has to be on the behavior, not the feelings of intensity. Like, you can't punish a kid for how they feel or narrow the rules to try and change it - that's a losing proposition. You can only punish the ways that those feelings end up interfering with actual obligations or rules. So I think that's the focus. Not being allowed to be alone in a random house together is a totally reasonable rule... that there's no indication they broke.

Well, there seems to be some dishonesty here, so I wouldn’t assume they weren’t alone in the house together. It doesn’t seem like something the dd would want to admit, even if it happened. 

Whatever happened (or didn’t happen,) I would definitely do whatever I could to make sure the opportunity doesn’t arise again in the future. 

Honestly, if this was about two 15yos, I would be far less concerned. Maybe that’s silly, but it’s how I feel about it.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Also, I don’t know your state, but same sex relationships can still fall under statutory rape laws in many places. 
You feel uncomfortable and even just hearing the merest details I can see red flags.  I don’t feel any differently about a newly 15 year old girl in a relationship with an 18 year old girl than I would if it was an 18 year old boy.  Plus the comment girlfriend made about her parents not wanting know the types of things she’s up too…yeah, that just feels like a huge red flag to me.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Ottakee]

How does this new friend respond to invites to spend time at your home or going out with the family?   That might be telling as well.   The isolating from other friends is very concerning.

[whitestavern]

1 hour ago, Ottakee said:

How does this new friend respond to invites to spend time at your home or going out with the family?   That might be telling as well.   The isolating from other friends is very concerning.

I agree. I'd start inviting her to spend time at your house or doing activities with your family so you can get to know her. 

[Shelydon]

8 hours ago, Farrar said:

I guess I'm not seeing what's concerning about taking a friend to a pet sitting job. They went so she could responsibly do her job and she asked the new girlfriend to wait outside while she did the things she needed to do? What's alarming about that? Or they walked a dog together? I have a couple of friends who are professional pet walkers. I've literally done this with one of them. Wait outside. They join me back outside. We take a walk while they do their job and take care of the dog.

My DD pets sits.  Having a friend come with would get her fired. 

[BusyMom5]

If I hired your daughter to do a job at my house,  and she brought a friend, I would probably fire her.  Lots of people are serious about trusting others in their home.  

Apparently I missed that this was a relationship,  not just a friendship.  I see lots of red flags, too.  I hope that your family can come up with some better boundaries and rules over the weekend.   

[Pen]

I’d be concerned about the friend’s driving abilities.  And a 2.5 hour trip would be a definite “no”. 

[Scarlett]

17 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I am seeing so many red flags here, and I didn’t even see the original post before you deleted it. 

If this is a romantic relationship, I think it needs to be viewed exactly the same way as if a newly-15yo girl was dating an 18yo guy. Just because this is another girl doesn’t make it any less concerning to me, aside from the obvious possible pregnancy issue if it was a guy.

If your dd has always been an honest kid and she is suddenly lying or omitting information, I would have strong suspicions that the new “friend” is encouraging that kind of behavior.

Do you allow dating at 15? Because if you don’t, the time to put a stop to this relationship is right now, before it gets even more intense. If this was just a friendship, I wouldn’t be crazy about it, but the romantic aspect is very concerning to me, because I wouldn’t want my 15yo possibly getting involved in a s*xual relationship with anyone at that age — and too much time alone in a car, at dogsitting jobs, or anywhere where no other friends are present, might lead to exactly that. 

The relationship seems to be moving way too quickly, and I’m also more than a little worried about an 18yo girl pursuing a romantic relationship with a girl who is so much younger. I’m sorry to sound so suspicious of the older girl’s motives, but I just am. Something seems very wrong here, and I worry about your dd.

Same here.  I did not see original post but what I can gather seems VERY concerning.  

[Danae]

18 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Honestly, if this was about two 15yos, I would be far less concerned. Maybe that’s silly, but it’s how I feel about it.

It’s not silly.  Three years is a huge difference at that age. I would not be at all happy about a 15 year old dating an 18 year old in any combination of sex/gender/orientation.

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Danae said:

It’s not silly.  Three years is a huge difference at that age. I would not be at all happy about a 15 year old dating an 18 year old in any combination of sex/gender/orientation.

Thanks! I keep thinking that there is such a difference in the maturity level of an 18yo girl and a just-turned-15yo girl, and it seems odd to me that there would be much of a basis for a relationship. I can understand the 15yo feeling like she is older and more sophisticated because an older girl is taking an interest in her, but what is the benefit for the 18yo?  When I was 18, a 15yo would have seemed like a little kid to me. Also, a lot of 15yo girls still look like kids, so the physical attraction aspect is kind of troubling to me, as well. 

I guess I just picture such a difference between girls at those ages, and I could be completely off-base with this, but something about this seems sort of predatory to me. I mean, maybe the 18yo is exceptionally immature for her age, but if she isn’t, what is she doing dating a kid who just turned 15? 

[mlktwins]

My boys are turning 16 on Monday and are just getting phones -- LOL.  But...our house rules for those will be no phone in your room at night (they can be charging on their computer desks).  Also, I will have the password and can check their phones whenever I want.  I don't plan to do this often, but have enough friends that have said it is good they do this.  Friends with sons that are getting inappropriate pics from girls -- not from their prompting either.  And...friends with girls who say their girl's friends are sending and saying inappropriate things to boys. I've told them not to write anything they don't want their mom to see 😁.

As for the other, my boys will not be riding in a car with anyone but each other when they get their license.  VA law says they can only carry 1 passenger in their car the first year they have their license.  I will deal with the rest after that year.

It will be a big no, no for them to not be honest with me about where they are.  I will give them room to grow and spread their wings, but they will need to be honest with me.  Not being where they say they will be won't be a good thing for them.  My mom always told me she would always trust me until I broke that trust.  That it would be very hard to earn back.  I feel the same about my boys.  And...if they make a mistake, but apologize and learn from it, that will help when I decide what the consequences will be.

 

 

[Soror]

I'd feel entirely different for a romantic relationship vs a friendship. I let my kids do a lot of things with friends I'd not let them do with a s.o. I'd really not be happy if that s.o. was a legal adult and there was a 3 yr age difference. I would be very unhappy with the lying and sneaking around! Best wishes, teenagers are hard.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Soror

[Acadie]

To clarify since this keeps coming up--friend is 17, but I don't know if she's closer to her 17th or 18th birthday. So not a legal adult, but it's another unknown whether the age difference is closer to 2 or 3 years. Two school years apart, anyway. 

After a rocky few days I'm feeling much better about the conversations we've had. Dd apologized for being dishonest and seems to understand our rules and the reasons behind them, even if she doesn't like it. Going forward there will be outings with a parent or other friends, a fuller schedule of other commitments and no one accompanying her to walk the dogs.