Those of you who have been through divorce….

[fairfarmhand]

BTW, I know it will be hard for your dd in some respects, but really, she's got a lot of things going on in her own life, and parent marriage problems (especially if she's living away, did you say if she's away at school?) are only going to be one of many things she is considering in her day to day life. 

The fact that she didn't want to live with the two of you together says a lot about her awareness of the severity of the issues, and it may be a relief for her to know there will be a resolution to this situation.  She actually may have seen this coming more that you have. So don't let "ruining her senior year" hang out in your brain very long. You can't be responsible for that. It may be hard, but it probably won't "ruin" anything. 

You can help her by only telling her the things she needs to know. She won't need to know the details of a lot of this. 

Quietly get your financials in a row, and consult a lawyer to see if there's something that you may be missing. 

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Getting a lawyer is not a b!tch move, it is protecting your rights and property. Getting a lawyer isn't the same as getting a divorce either. Getting a lawyer just means that you are finding out what you are and are not entitled to and what is required in your state to get a divorce. For example, my parents had to be legally separated and maintain separate households for a year before they could even file for divorce in the state they were in. When I got divorced in a different state, the whole process of just the divorce itself was done in 5 months. It varies a lot from state to state.

This is right on. You need to shift away from doing what you think will make him happy (or make him think you're not a bitch) and toward finding your own supports and allies who will support you in proceeding according to your own values. It sounds like you are an honest and fair person, and you absolutely can retain and act on those values while learning what is in your interest in terms of what to do next. Honesty does NOT mean spilling the beans to him on what is now your private business, seeing a lawyer to make sure you're protecting your own AND your daughter's interests moving forward.

You may have family or friends (not mutual friends who might share what you're doing with him) you can trust to be supports for you, and you also need professional advice on actions you can take now to protect your and your daughter's interests. Like previous posters, I have friends whose exes spent 401Ks or college funds, or sold valuable collections, in exactly the phase you're in now, so those funds could not be part  of the divorce settlement. That meant those funds were not available for college tuition, nor any future financial support or inheritance for their children.

It's entirely possible, and even likely, that he's seen a lawyer who has recommended that he delay until he can get more information on your shared finances, or move funds in some way. I hate to say this but it's also possible that he is seeing someone and that his spending will increase, or that he has a separate account, credit card or phone. You just don't know.

Getting legal advice is not the same as filing for divorce, and you need to start by getting advice now. The actions you take in terms of finances, gathering information, where you live and timing of divorce proceedings all have major legal and financial implications so you need professional advice you can trust. What is legal and what is recommended will vary by state and by your specific financial and family situation, so no one on the internet can give you specific advice on what you need to do--legally and fairly--to protect yourself. 

Some lawyers will do free consultations, which not only help you determine if they would be a good fit but also give you some helpful information, based on questions you bring to the consultation about your specific situation. They may not be able to answer everything, but by speaking with a few lawyers you can glean a good deal of information. If you have the financial means, by all means pay for a consultation with a top notch lawyer or two.

You are a woman of intelligence and resourcefulness, and you've found support here. There's more support to be found in a good lawyer who really knows their stuff and has guided people through this process many times before. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Acadie

[Danae]

By telling you he wants a divorce he is telling you that he no longer considers the two of you to be a unit — looking out for your well-being is no longer a part of his well-being.  He’s going to be making decisions based on the benefits to himself.  You need to do the same. 

[Scarlett]

38 minutes ago, Acadie said:

This is right on. You need to shift away from doing what you think will make him happy (or make him think you're not a bitch) and toward finding your own supports and allies who will support you in proceeding according to your own values. It sounds like you are an honest and fair person, and you absolutely can retain and act on those values while learning what is in your interest in terms of what to do next. Honesty does NOT mean spilling the beans to him on what is now your private business, seeing a lawyer to make sure you're protecting your own AND your daughter's interests moving forward.

You may have family or friends (not mutual friends who might share what you're doing with him) you can trust to be supports for you, and you also need professional advice on actions you can take now to protect your and your daughter's interests. Like previous posters, I have friends whose exes spent 401Ks or college funds, or sold valuable collections, in exactly the phase you're in now, so those funds could not be part  of the divorce settlement. That meant those funds were not available for college tuition, nor any future financial support or inheritance for their children.

It's entirely possible, and even likely, that he's seen a lawyer who has recommended that he delay until he can get more information on your shared finances, or move funds in some way. I hate to say this but it's also possible that he is seeing someone and that his spending will increase, or that he has a separate account, credit card or phone. You just don't know.

Getting legal advice is not the same as filing for divorce, and you need to start by getting advice now. The actions you take in terms of finances, gathering information, where you live and timing of divorce proceedings all have major legal and financial implications so you need professional advice you can trust. What is legal and what is recommended will vary by state and by your specific financial and family situation, so no one on the internet can give you specific advice on what you need to do--legally and fairly--to protect yourself. 

Some lawyers will do free consultations, which not only help you determine if they would be a good fit but also give you some helpful information, based on questions you bring to the consultation about your specific situation. They may not be able to answer everything, but by speaking with a few lawyers you can glean a good deal of information. If you have the financial means, by all means pay for a consultation with a top notch lawyer or two.

You are a woman of intelligence and resourcefulness, and you've found support here. There's more support to be found in a good lawyer who really knows their stuff and has guided people through this process many times before. 

In the majority of cases where a man wants a divorce this is the case.  

[bolt.]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

The fact that he keeps mentioning your dd’s age leads me to wonder if there is a financial advantage for you and your dd if you were to file for divorce right now, instead of waiting as long as he wants to wait.

I want to emphasize this! There is probably some way that 'a child' is defined for the divorce process that defines her *both* by age *and* by whether or not she is still a student.

If for no other reason, see a local lawyer who knows the answer to this question in your jurisdiction.

I also want to affirm that going through a parental divorce while one is attending postsecondary school is upsetting -- but not year-ruining for your daughter. It would be upsetting any year. It's not going to hurt her more just because of what year of school she is in. (It will, of course, totally ruin *your* year. Is it possible that you are (totally innocently) projecting a little?)

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

In the majority of cases where a man wants a divorce this is the case.  

And even if it’s not, assume that it is. It is very painful to think that he might have someone else waiting in the wings, but it’s better to be safe than sorry, because if there is another woman involved, she may have a lot of influence over him — and it is in her best interest to see you and your dd be left with as little money and as few assets as possible.

Protect yourself and your dd. You have ZERO loyalty to him now. He is no longer your husband; he is your adversary.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

44 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I want to emphasize this! There is probably some way that 'a child' is defined for the divorce process that defines her *both* by age *and* by whether or not she is still a student.

If for no other reason, see a local lawyer who knows the answer to this question in your jurisdiction.

I also want to affirm that going through a parental divorce while one is attending postsecondary school is upsetting -- but not year-ruining for your daughter. It would be upsetting any year. It's not going to hurt her more just because of what year of school she is in. (It will, of course, totally ruin *your* year. Is it possible that you are (totally innocently) projecting a little?)

Yes, please hurry.  

 

[Lecka]

I am a child of divorce, and I can say I wish my mom had been less passive and left less up to my dad.  It is just a sad thing to watch.  It’s like — a saturation level of what was happening before, that happened on the way out.

I am a little two-faced on this subject.  

On one hand, I am so thankful my mon was able to move on to better things.  She did so much better after the divorce.

On the other hand, I never want to get a divorce.  I am so committed to my marriage.

But my husband is worth it.  My step-dad is worth it.

My dad — eh, he does not have a great character.  He did not treat my mom in a way I can respect.  I am glad she is not still putting up with him and stuck trying to make up for his actions.  

[Jaybee]

I don't know a lot--mostly what I have read on here. But due to a friend's situation, I would also recommend getting your name off of any shared credit cards. Get your own separate one in only your name. My friend's dh ran up huge bills on their joint cc--mostly by spending on his other woman--and last I talked to her, that is really going to hurt her financially due to splitting of expenses, etc. She was careful with money, but he most certainly was not, and punished her with it.

[Alicia64]

4 hours ago, Danae said:

By telling you he wants a divorce he is telling you that he no longer considers the two of you to be a unit — looking out for your well-being is no longer a part of his well-being.  He’s going to be making decisions based on the benefits to himself.  You need to do the same. 

I love this. We need a hearty applause emoji!

((((I talk to trees)))) I've been thinking about you each day. I bet a lot of people on here are.

Imagine a huge group of supporters standing behind you as you go forward.

You've got this.

[Carol in Cal.]

7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Legal minds, it true that once you consult with an attorney, that attorney is then not allowed to consult with your dh, as it would be a conflict of interest?

Because I’ve seen it advised in the past that if you suspect your spouse will deal dirty, to go ahead and consult with more than one of the top lawyers in town, because then they would not be available to him. Is there truth to this?

Maybe two or three of the top ones.  Just saying.

[Clarita]

5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

The fact that she didn't want to live with the two of you together says a lot about her awareness of the severity of the issues, and it may be a relief for her to know there will be a resolution to this situation.  She actually may have seen this coming more that you have. So don't let "ruining her senior year" hang out in your brain very long. You can't be responsible for that. It may be hard, but it probably won't "ruin" anything. 

Just speaking from my experience, my parents stayed together in an unhappy marriage for convenience. If your daughter is saying that, unless finances or whatever will make things different for her, the actual divorce won't ruin her life or year. For me I wish my parents would have gotten a divorce - even if they had decided to do that my senior year of high school or college it would have been better and easier on me.

[Guest]

@I talk to the trees, I remembered he moved out during COVID and I remember thinking it did not bode well. I think the direction someone walks matters and moving out is an away-walking move. 

(I haven’t read all the replies here, but...)

I would proactively get a lawyer myself right now. I would also immediately move to protect some money if I didn’t already have that. I’m sorry to say I do not trust a leaving spouse to laze around and get to it when it’s better for your daughter. Besides which I think  I personally would find it unbearable to live amicably with a dying relationship. Half the crap I put up with now I only put up with because I am assuming a future. If I knew we had an expiration date hanging out there, I don’t think I could go along. I definitely couldn’t brew any Tea under a deadline. I’m speaking for myself, obviously, and I have not worn those particular shoes, but that’s what I *imagine* in my head I would do. 

I’m very sorry. 

[Carol in Cal.]

Look, we have been here for a long time, and we have seen a pattern over and over and over.

Dude gets interested in someone else.  Dude engineers some kind of unofficial separation.  Dude prepares behind the scenes for a long time, spending down assets, hiding them, making his income look artificially low, deferring compensation in a nonobvious way.  Then he gently detonates the bomb.  

He tries to convince STBX that he is fundamentally on everyone's side, that this is a break up that is meant to be,  but that they will always love each other.  Just not, you know, IN love.  This is the lulling phase while he tries to get her to agree to a bunch of things that are not in her best interest.  Demonstrations of anger are occasional and strategic.  The good of the kids comes up a lot, but somehow suddenly homeschooling was always bad for them, and only the wife's idea.

Here are the goals:

1.  Get as much in real property assets away from the wife as possible.  Focus is on tangible assets that are likely to appreciate in value.

2.  Reduce to a minimum all child support and spousal support.  Mocking of women who accept spousal support because they are weak is part of this.

3.  Hide assets as much as possible, and if there is a big bonus or stock going public issue coming up, make sure that the value of the income and property is set firmly well beforehand.

4.  Buy all the things so that there is less money to divide.  Consume them a lot.  Expensive wine and cigars come and go, 'just like that'.  Fancy cars, ditto.  You only have a claim on what was bought in the marriage and is still around, and only on the current market value.

THIS IS THE PATTERN.  

We think it is in play because it almost always is.  Dude is doing divorce planning.  You must stop believing that he is on your side, while pretending to him that you do believe him.  You need to quietly get your ducks lined up, like, yesterday.  Please believe us.  

[SeaConquest]

5 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Never assume that he doesn’t know exactly how much money you have. Never assume that he hasn’t been squirreling away money for years in preparation for this.

Never assume that he hasn’t already seen a lawyer. He is the one who wants this separation, so I will guarantee you that he knows exactly what he’s doing and has planned every possible aspect of this divorce. If he is delaying, it’s because his lawyer told him it’s to his financial advantage to do so. This is NOT about his love and concern for your dd. This is about MONEY.

The fact that he keeps mentioning your dd’s age leads me to wonder if there is a financial advantage for you and your dd if you were to file for divorce right now, instead of waiting as long as he wants to wait.

I don't know anything about family law, other than what we had to know to pass the CA bar, but that little fact pattern had my lawyer brain perking up as well.

ETA: And I meant to also say that I am very sorry that you are going through all of this. The pandemic has really done a number on so many relationships. It feels like everyone I know is getting divorced or has marriages that are really strained at the moment (my own inclusive), so please know that you are not alone. It's been a really hard time for a lot of people, and that's added so much additional stress for couples.

Edited June 21, 2021 by SeaConquest

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Legal minds, it true that once you consult with an attorney, that attorney is then not allowed to consult with your dh, as it would be a conflict of interest?

Because I’ve seen it advised in the past that if you suspect your spouse will deal dirty, to go ahead and consult with more than one of the top lawyers in town, because then they would not be available to him. Is there truth to this?

What I do know: my boss does mediation for couples and also will handle divorce cases, but never both services for the same couple - he can’t ethically do that. If someone calls and says something like, “I don’t know if we need mediation or if I should just be getting an attorney for my divorce...” he will stop them and say, “If you want me to mediate, then I have to stop discussing with you now so I am not biased to your side.” It is true a family law attorney cannot represent adversaries. In some firms, the paralegals and assistants cannot even work on a certain case because a past firm where they worked was counsel for an adversary. 

The “strategy” of talking to the top lawyers in town seems impractical to me, at least where I live; there are thousands and thousands of good lawyers. The likelihood of both members of the marriage seeking out the same two or three lawyers is almost laughably improbable. 

[I talk to the trees]

I just want to take a minute to say thank you to you all for your kind and supportive thoughts and words. They mean more than I can say. I am taking all of your advice to heart- yes, even the tough to hear bits- and am taking some baby steps forward this week. I just had a dental cleaning, have an eye appointment today, and I just set up my own checking account (the only account I have had in my name alone for 25 years!)  As a silly little morale booster, I printed out all of the short stories I have  written in the past year. Now my printer is almost out of ink, but something about just feeling the weight of them in my hands made me feel less like a total loser. (Hey, look! You can do something productive!) Pollen is unbearable here right now for me, so I have been taking Benadryl and am actually thankful for once to have the drowsy/loopy side effect. Sleep=good. Thanks again, guys. As always, the hive rocks.

I have tried to “like” each of your messages, not because I like hearing difficult things, but I truly appreciate the time someone takes to reply, and there is no icon between the crying face and the heart. (Side note: I really miss the little fainting emoji from before the board updates.) If I missed anyone, please consider yourself “liked”. 

[Ottakee]

Baby steps are good.  I remember being in the thick of things after my husband was arrested and I was trying to figure out what to do, what needing doing, and just surviving.   I just made a goal of ONE thing a day .  Anything else was a bonus.

[sweet2ndchance]

12 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Legal minds, it true that once you consult with an attorney, that attorney is then not allowed to consult with your dh, as it would be a conflict of interest?

Because I’ve seen it advised in the past that if you suspect your spouse will deal dirty, to go ahead and consult with more than one of the top lawyers in town, because then they would not be available to him. Is there truth to this?

Yes, this is true. At least it was in my case. My ex consulted ALL the attorneys in town so I had to go out of town to find an attorney. 😕 

Not trying to get OP to play dirty but it is important to find an attorney you work well with. Just like finding a good match for you in a doctor. Not all attorneys work the same way or have the same... um... morals? lol. I've had to have several attorneys throughout my ongoing battle with my ex and some have been better than others. (10 years post divorce and we are still in court. Not typical of course, I have a particularly nasty ex) 

[Guest]

@I talk to the trees, just popping in because I asked my boss for his advice in your situation (general advice). He said you should photo document assets you have so as to prove the marital assets existing. He rec’d a PI if you aren’t sure what he’s up to or there could be other women/someone else. Rec’d setting up individual account if you don’t have one now and split money existing in joint account now. HTH

[sweet2ndchance]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

He rec’d a PI if you aren’t sure what he’s up to or there could be other women/someone else.

This would depend on your state.

Ex wanted to prove I was cheating in order to get me registered as a sex offender in the state we divorced in. Why? Because he's crazy but that's another story. For the record, I never cheated.

Because our family was not high profile, the judge threw out his claims of adultry as irrelevant to the divorce. She said unless he held public office or was otherwise a high profile person, it didn't matter in our state.

Definitely consult a lawyer in your own state. Divorce law is so very different from state to state. Everything else that Quill's boss recommended though is pretty universal. Document assets and separate financials ASAP.

 

[Guest]

Oh, also, another thing to think about is health insurance. If you are covered under his plan, it is something you will have to obtain through another channel. 

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

Might want to pull your credit report. That way you feel current balances and see if there are any cards open that you don’t know about. 

Quickly, too, before inquiries get frozen or something.

Also, this sometimes turns up HELOCs or other mortgage borrowing on the primary residence you didn’t know you had.  I know of two instances like this.  

[Home'scool]

First, hugs to you. I just finished a divorce that dragged on for 4 years. Even now my ex is filing an appeal to our divorce decree.

The crying will stop. I remember just sobbing for so long. It was the hardest I have ever cried. But you will stop crying.

Everyone here has great advice. I know it is hard right now to think of doing all these things (bank accounts, moving around money, pulling credit reports) when it is hard to even stand up. Try to do what you can. Do not think that by doing nothing you will be appeasing your husband. He has his own plans.

Hugs

 

 

[elegantlion]

Credit Karma is a good site to monitor your credit score and credit reports. 

[bolt.]

Just to add, you don't actually have to buy into the narrative that your spouse *is* being nefarious if that seems unlikely or inconceivable to you. You don't have to adapt towards seeing him as an enemy if that doesn't make sense.

You can take those narratives for what they are worth: they are possibilities. They remain *possible* even if you consider them unlikely. And, because they remain possible, it's important to take safety precautions against them -- just in case he surprises you.

If he never does anything nefarious, never moves money, isn't seeing anyone, isn't manipulatively following legal advice for his own advantage... if he just carries on being a doofus who doesn't care about the shared account balance or the assets for now. If he is happy to split everything 50/50 without fuss or bother in the end. Well. Good. That's really a great outcome. In that case none of your precautions will turn out to be relevant. It's like packing an umbrella when it didn't rain, or driving with a spare tire available -- oh well. It turns out you didn't need it. But it didn't do you any harm to carry it, right?

You don't have to be sure about anything right now. There are just some prudent ways to 'cover your bases' -- just in case. If he never does anything selfish or unfair, he will never know that you thought he might and took steps to make sure it wouldn't work if he tried. It won't matter if you don't need it. If it turns out that you do need some of these things... it might matter a lot! It just makes sense to be practical about everything right now.

[lauraw4321]

22 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Legal minds, it true that once you consult with an attorney, that attorney is then not allowed to consult with your dh, as it would be a conflict of interest?

Because I’ve seen it advised in the past that if you suspect your spouse will deal dirty, to go ahead and consult with more than one of the top lawyers in town, because then they would not be available to him. Is there truth to this?

Yes there is truth to this, although top lawyers sometimes work around this, so read any paperwork carefully.

[Happy2BaMom]

I am thinking of that line from the Bible....something about "be gentle as doves, but wise as serpents" (or perhaps it was vice versa, I'm not Christian, my apologies if I'm misquoting).

That's who you now need to be.

In person & when interacting, you & (ex-ish) hubby should still be friendly and on great terms (as much as possible). Behind the scenes, your little duck feet are paddling as furiously as you have energy to muster on any given day. Not to screw him over, but to protect yourself AND YOUR DAUGHTER. (By this I mean....it does not help her if you are being emotionally drug all over the carpet. It does not help her if he pulls shenanigans or mistreats you or runs up a bunch of debt, etc. These things will negatively impact her more than the divorce.)

Your ONLY loyalty now is to the family that you have been left with....which does not include (by his CHOICE) your (ex-)husband.

[Shoeless]

Your ex might not be nefarious, but I'd be very, very surprised if he isn't getting *his* ducks in a row right now, if he hasn't already. 

I "sprung" the divorce on my ex.  By the time I left and filed, I had everything important to me sorted out and secured.  I had a lawyer, I got my ex off my financial matters, I had an apartment leased, the car titles sorted out, etc. 

I put "sprung" in quotes because my ex insists that he had no idea anything was wrong, even though I'd been telling him for over a year that things were very, very wrong. In his mind, I was sneaky and calculating, and he was "blindsided".  I didn't take anything that wasn't mine and mine alone, and I didn't try to screw him over. My lawyer pointed out that I was entitled to far more than what I asked for, in fact. But my ex couldn't get past the idea that I was not thinking of his best interests at all. In his mind, the fact that I was not considering him meant I was screwing him over and being unfair.  He couldn't get his head around the idea that he had to think of his own interests, because I was resigning from that position. 

He might very well mean it if he says he doesn't want things to become ugly or that he won't try to stick it to you. But it doesn't mean he's going to do a thing to help you. 😕         

[Scarlett]

16 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Your ex might not be nefarious, but I'd be very, very surprised if he isn't getting *his* ducks in a row right now, if he hasn't already. 

I "sprung" the divorce on my ex.  By the time I left and filed, I had everything important to me sorted out and secured.  I had a lawyer, I got my ex off my financial matters, I had an apartment leased, the car titles sorted out, etc. 

I put "sprung" in quotes because my ex insists that he had no idea anything was wrong, even though I'd been telling him for over a year that things were very, very wrong. In his mind, I was sneaky and calculating, and he was "blindsided".  I didn't take anything that wasn't mine and mine alone, and I didn't try to screw him over. My lawyer pointed out that I was entitled to far more than what I asked for, in fact. But my ex couldn't get past the idea that I was not thinking of his best interests at all. In his mind, the fact that I was not considering him meant I was screwing him over and being unfair.  He couldn't get his head around the idea that he had to think of his own interests, because I was resigning from that position. 

He might very well mean it if he says he doesn't want things to become ugly or that he won't try to stick it to you. But it doesn't mean he's going to do a thing to help you. 😕         

I remember my XH saying to me, 'You didn't even talk to me before you filed for divorce!'   I was like, 'well, you didn't talk to me before you started having sex with a 24 year old.'  

I know there are amicable divorces.....but it still doesn't hurt to be smart and prepared.  

[madteaparty]

On 6/22/2021 at 1:27 AM, SeaConquest said:

 It feels like everyone I know is getting divorced or has marriages that are really strained at the moment (my own inclusive), so please know that you are not alone. It's been a really hard time for a lot of people, and that's added so much additional stress for couples.

So true.