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lauraw4321
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I have absolutely no housekeeping skills. My house is always cluttered and I often feel overwhelmed. I grew up in a home that was borderline hoarder level. I manage to cook, keep the dishes washed and put away, clean clothes on myself and the kids, and I have a cleaning lady clean the downstairs once a week. But the upstairs bedrooms and bathrooms are cluttered and aren’t cleaned regularly. I need routines / decluttering / help. I’m willing to pay if there’s a program or something. I started flylady once but the emails drove me batty. Any advice? 

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I liked flylady when there was the digest option and you could just download the manuals.

I grew up in a house like yours.  I never learned anything, and I had no idea how other people did it.  So, before I get back to my own housecleaning today, here's what works for me:

-don't try to eat the elephant. Seriously.  A small goal each day is better than a big one. 

Sometimes my goal is a task: wipe down the counters in the bathroom

Sometimes it's a challenge: put away 10 things this hour/toss/donate

Sometimes it's a timer: work for x minutes in this room.

-know that tomorrow is going to look probably exactly like today.  It's okay.  Do the same challenge on that area, until it gets to a maintainable position, then scale back to weekly.

-Print out a sheet of quarterly tasks.  The first year you'll do some, the second year those and others, and then it starts getting to be more manageable as it goes on.

-make it a habit to drive past a thrift shop or donation station weekly.  If you do this (ours is actually at the town dump, so it's even easier here), then throwing the bag in your car isn't a big deal.

-make daily routines.  Get up, make your bed, wipe out your sink, scrub your toilet.  Start there.  Move on.  Expect the kids to all work at the same time: they make their beds, wipe their sinks, scrub their toilets.

 

There are days when the carpet doesn't get vacuumed as often as it should, but it is at a "comfortable" level, which is something I couldn't say growing up.

 

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First of all, it sounds like you have a good handle on the downstairs---good job! Housekeeping is not for the faint of heart. And doing it once and expecting it to stay that way doesn't work. So get in the mindset that it's ongoing. 

You might want to start with a declutter. Once you have a good handle on what you have, find a place for everything. Get appropriate storage. Without appropriate storage, there's no way to keep things picked up because they don't have a home. 

Then figure out what tasks you can teach your children to do. Teach them. Yes, it takes longer, but you'll be doing both them and you a favor. Take time to set up a schedule, whatever works for your family. Shoot for consistency, not perfection. 

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Fly lady is based on the system in the book Sidetracked Home Executives.  If you can get your hands on this old book I highly recommend it.  Even if you don't use their card system exactly it is still really helpful.

Sticking to my cards is the only way I can keep up.  If I blow them off everything falls apart.

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Here, keeping things decluttered is the key.  I can’t manage piles and piles of extra stuff.  Unfortunately, piles of stuff were part of my upbringing, so it’s the unfortunate default.  I make a conscious effort not to do that, but it happens occasionally despite best efforts, usually if I’m in a rush.  

We have a hall closet with a bin for donations, so everyone is to put outgrown/unwanted clothes in it - that helps. I make sure there are trash bins accessible.  

The other thing that helps … we also have cleaning help, and they do the entire house.  So we must be “maid ready” every two weeks, which means everyone puts away any piles of stuff, straightens up their area, and makes sure there are clean linens available to be put on the beds. Honestly, if I could only have the maids do one part of the house, it would be the upstairs bedrooms and bathrooms.  Everything else is easier for me.  I wonder if your cleaning help could rotate and do the main areas one week, the sleeping/bath areas another?

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It sounds like you have already have quite a bit under control.  That's great!

I'm not a Flyperson, but I've combed her site for good ideas.  She says something like, "Even housework done incorrectly blesses your family".  I agree!  Any progress you make, no matter how small, is better than nothing.  You can build on the progess you've already made in your house with a tidy first floor and the dishes and laundry handled.

I can see that the Flylady email thing would be overwhelming, but she does have this page on her website about forming habits.  She briefly explains habits and routines and offers links to 31 Days of Habits.  There's no reason you have to master one each day.  Just jump in and move to the next one and the one when you can.  And tailor them if necessary to fit your life.

http://www.flylady.net/d/getting-started/31-beginner-babysteps/

However you do it, I think a good approach is to learn to complete daily have-tos first.  Then work on decluttering for a few minutes each day.  Slow and steady.  It takes time to unload clutter, particularly when you grew up in a cluttered environment.  (I know a thing or two about this.  😐)  When you miss a day, just pick up where you left off.

 

Edited by DoraBora
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Aslobcomesclean.com blog and podcast.  I ❤️ her books too.  Dana K. White is her name, I consider her my cleaning guru.  Her tag line of “cleaning and organizing for real people, people that don’t necessarily love cleaning and organizing” is very accurate to what she does.  Her blog is her walking through and learning how to get her own hone under control and figuring it out as she goes.    So much helpful advice! 

Edited by HeartString
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I do best with a checklist.  Years ago I saved done from donnayoung.com and updated it to suit my needs. There are lots of checklists online. Decluttering can be added to a checklist on a daily, weekly, or whatever basis. I like working in 15-20 minute increments myself, and am working on being ruthless on getting rid of my own extraneous possessions.  My family has not bought into it though, so there is plenty of other peoples' stuff lurking around my house. I keep it contained as much as possible. My focus is on keeping the "public" rooms of the house cleanest, then my "office" area, then my bedroom/bathroom.  

For me, reading blogs and watching youtube videos is just a time sink, unless I need to learn how to do a specific thing, like cleaning the filters on the bottom of the microwave. I know there is a lot of variance on this so I'm not saying those things are useless, just that for me they are a way to escape actually doing the work. 

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If you don't mind using your phone, it sounds like you would do really well with the Motivated Moms app. I use it sometimes because it's nice to just click 'done' and move on to the next task, no thinking needed. If you miss something, just keep going, it will come back into rotation. You can edit tasks and add custom tasks. Everyone can use the same account, you can assign chores and see when they are checked off. 

It's very reasonable; $20/year. 

Motivated Moms

As an aside, she has acknowledged that the name isn't as inclusive as she would like, but there is too much brand recognition to change it right now. 

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25 minutes ago, katilac said:

If you don't mind using your phone, it sounds like you would do really well with the Motivated Moms app. I use it sometimes because it's nice to just click 'done' and move on to the next task, no thinking needed. If you miss something, just keep going, it will come back into rotation. You can edit tasks and add custom tasks. Everyone can use the same account, you can assign chores and see when they are checked off. 

It's very reasonable; $20/year. 

Motivated Moms

As an aside, she has acknowledged that the name isn't as inclusive as she would like, but there is too much brand recognition to change it right now. 

Along those lines, there’s another app called Home Routines.  It’s very customizable.  I have used it for several years, and find it helpful. I can’t recall now why I chose it over Motivated Moms, but I did try both.  It’s been a big help, though I have slacked off recently (health issues for a few months, so everything here is up in the air). I’ll use it again, definitely.

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You could ask your cleaning lady to help you with decluttering and organizing as well. I know some cleaning services offer that as a service. My cleaning ladies will put all my clutter in a box or a specific location when they clean a room, then I just take that box of stuff and put those things away. So as long as they come on a regular basis, it's decent.

Another advice that I found helpful is when you pick a place for things (or organization method) make sure the people in your household can follow through. Just make it organized enough as opposed to catalogue ready. For example my kids clothes are not folded in their drawers, because they aren't able to do that - they just get it in the right drawer and location. 

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2 minutes ago, Clarita said:

My cleaning ladies will put all my clutter in a box or a specific location when they clean a room, then I just take that box of stuff and put those things away. So as long as they come on a regular basis, it's decent.

I was thinking a cleaning service wouldn't work for her because of the clutter, but this method makes a lot of sense. 

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3 hours ago, happi duck said:

Fly lady is based on the system in the book Sidetracked Home Executives.  If you can get your hands on this old book I highly recommend it.  Even if you don't use their card system exactly it is still really helpful.

Sticking to my cards is the only way I can keep up.  If I blow them off everything falls apart.

The Sidetracked Home Executive is a great book.  I loved it.  

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Since I work in a school, summer for me is a great time for a bigger project. For you, I would recommend cleaning out the bedrooms thoroughly this summer. Maybe repaint if needed--just to get a clean fresh start. Move out clothing that is too small or stained, pass along toys that don't get used, cull art supplies, school materials, etc. Look at the bookshelves/closets/dressers/under-the-bed-space and see if new storage solutions are in order. Once everyone has a clean space that they are excited about, it may be a little easier to begin the new keep-it-clean habits.

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I was raised in a similar way, the only difference being was that frequent moves curbed my mother’s hoarding tendencies somewhat.  
 

When I was 18-21, I was trying to figure out how to live comfortably in my first apartment and ended up reading a lot of books.  The ones that helped me the most were Home Comforts (which goes it a lot of the why and how we do things) and Sidetracked Home Executives (which helps you create a system of cards to keep on top of routines).  I am all about the systems that keep things working.  

I would also consider either tasking older children with keeping the upstairs bathrooms clean or hiring the cleaning lady to tackle those too.  

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I don’t think there is anything wrong with hiring someone to help or even asking a friend to help. In fact, I have a very close friend who I have helped more than once with similar big clean outs, but I will say that with one warning. If you are truly a hoarder, pay fir help rather than ask friends or family for help. It is very frustrating to try to help someone clean who doesn’t really want the help, or who re-hoards after a clean up, and it can damage relationships. I’ve been there.

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25 minutes ago, Clarita said:

You could ask your cleaning lady to help you with decluttering and organizing as well. I know some cleaning services offer that as a service. My cleaning ladies will put all my clutter in a box or a specific location when they clean a room, then I just take that box of stuff and put those things away. So as long as they come on a regular basis, it's decent.

When I do this, or my cleaning person does this, I don’t put the stuff back.  I just put the box in the basement.  It’s interesting to see which things we actually care enough about to go get from the basement.  If something has been in the basement for a while it’s often a sign we don’t need it.

25 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Another advice that I found helpful is when you pick a place for things (or organization method) make sure the people in your household can follow through. Just make it organized enough as opposed to catalogue ready. For example my kids clothes are not folded in their drawers, because they aren't able to do that - they just get it in the right drawer and location. 

Yes! Perfect is the enemy of the good here!  

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I'm immersed in Youtubers who show how to do this, in a very fun/engaging way.
The Secret Slob works very quickly, and uses Her Version of flylady. 
She's a mom of 3 young ones & just a blessing to learn from.
She has free weekly 1-page cleaning checklist, which she talks about every Sunday live.
https://thesecretslob.com/printables-favourites/

Here's today's:

 

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2 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Ooo that's a good idea. 

When I started this, I thought that I was going to "teach my kids a lesson", and they'd learn not to leave stuff around that they cared about. 

In reality, I quickly learned two things.  One is that DH and I leave stuff around too.  The other is that my kids didn't really care about the stuff.  So, the stuff just stayed in the basement. 

Now, the house is cleaner, not because the kids learned, but because 2/3 of our stuff is in the basement, or has been given away.  We have a lot of the stuff that people care about, like legos and sports equipment, but the rest is just gone.  

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5 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

I have absolutely no housekeeping skills. My house is always cluttered and I often feel overwhelmed. I grew up in a home that was borderline hoarder level. I manage to cook, keep the dishes washed and put away, clean clothes on myself and the kids, and I have a cleaning lady clean the downstairs once a week. But the upstairs bedrooms and bathrooms are cluttered and aren’t cleaned regularly. I need routines / decluttering / help. I’m willing to pay if there’s a program or something. I started flylady once but the emails drove me batty. Any advice? 

Holy cow, I could have written this post down to the Fly Lady emails drove me nuts too!! (Except I don't have a cleaning lady in once a week.)

I'm following this thread! Thank you for bringing it up!

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Dana K. White (aforementioned) and Dawn Madsen (The Minimal Mom on YouTube) and Cas Aarssen (host of Hot Mess House on HGTV) have an online decluttering course. TakeYourHouseBack.com

Once you have done some decluttering, you can organize (put things where they work best), tidy (put things away where they go), and clean (remove dirt) much more readily. But these are all separate steps.

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36 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

Thank you all. I don’t really have the downstairs under control. Most horizontal surfaces are covered. 2 people in my family have severe ADHD and put nothing up /away. It’s a bit like brushing teeth and eating oreos. But I will work on it.  

 

19 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Ooo that's a good idea. 

I read too fast and read these two statements together. :)

 

 

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Radical konmarie.

Touch each item, ask if it sparks joy, if answer is no, donate or trash. The solution to clutter is not a complicated routine or new storage containers, but a radical reduction of possessions. 

If "spark joy" doesn't work for you, ask yourself instead "would I repurchase this item if my house burned down?"

Edited by regentrude
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A Slob Comes Clean also has a podcast, which is great to listen to... while cleaning!

I need checklists, and I divided my house into zones so each day of the week has a focus area. But the very real key is getting rid of the clutter! Dana really focuses on that point because it’s the truth.  I wish I had understood that better years ago! When all the crap is out of the way, cleaning is relatively quick and easy.

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(Sorry for the funny font, I was cutting and pasting and it got weird.)

I simply cannot do a lot at once.

And I am ok with a bit of dust and I am ok that things aren’t perfect.

I am ok with things being done in teensy tiny increments.

I am ok with things being skipped for a week or two.

 

For you, your very first task is to declutter.  Pick a room. Pick a single piece of furniture. Clean off the top of that piece of furniture. 

The next day, pick a different piece of furniture in the room and clean off the top of that.

And so forth until all the tops are cleaned off. KEY: maintain the previously cleaned surfaces, which is a snap now, since they’re all cleaned off. 

Then, find a single drawer and declutter that drawer.  The next day, go to the next drawer, etc.

 

Just do one teeny tiny bit each day—one top, one drawer, etc.  By the end of the month, or a couple of months, it’ll be done. Who cares if it takes that long??  No one. Let it take that long.

 

Once it’s decluttered, here is the list of how I keep my house “clean”.  There are plenty of people on here who would not consider my house clean, but it’s good enough for me. I only dust it 12 times a year (once a month) and that’s A-Ok with me.  It’s better than it used to be when I dusted only 3 times a year.

 

I’ll share it with you and you can either do this stuff as well, or tweak it to fit your life.  I picked the days to do these things based on my son’s school schedule. The longer tasks are done on the days he had live lessons in school. The shorter tasks are done on the days that I work with him one-on-one more often.  So, you pick the days that work best for you, and you pick the tasks that are important to you.

 

Daily:

Scoop litter boxes first thing.

Put on a load of laundry.

Wash and put away breakfast dishes

Wash and put away lunch dishes

Hang/dry laundry

Wash and put away dinner dishes

Scrub kitchen sink

Take out kitchen trash, as needed.

Wash lid of trashcan, as needed

Scoop litter boxes, last thing

 

Monday:

I wash the inside and outside of my car windows, because I hate driving with dirty car windows and my car is new, so it’s fun to clean it. 😄

I tidy all the rooms.

What I mean by tidy: Just put things back where they go. There’s no dusting or vacuuming. I simply gather up anything that doesn’t belong in each room and put it where it belongs. Done.

 

Tuesday:

I sweep and mop the kitchen floor, but I don’t mop the *whole* floor.

The first Tues of the month: sweep the floor and mop only under the table.

The 2nd Tues: sweep the floor and mop only under a piece of brown furniture I have in there (I slide it away from the wall—it’s on those sliders so it’s easy.

The 3rd Tues:  sweep the floor and mop only under a piece of white furniture. 

The 4th Tues:  sweep the floor and mop the middle of the floor.

The 5th is the same as the 4th.

That’s good enough for me. Eventually the entire floor is mopped every month, and that’s good enough for me.

 

Wednesday:

This is our trash night, so I gather up all the trash in the house and take the cans to the curb.

It’s also Small Bathroom Day (there are 2 bathrooms in the house.)

I take everything out of the bathroom and sweep the floor

I clean the sink, toilet, cupboard, and mirror.

I wipe down everything that gets dusty (humid rooms make it so dust sticks to everything). This includes things like tissue boxes and even the toilet brush holder. 

I make a big list of everything in the room so I can check off as it’s being done.

 

Thursday: 

Sweep day—any floor that isn’t carpet gets swept (even the kitchen floor again).

 

Friday:

Big Bathroom Day (this is the 2nd bathroom in the house): same as Small Bathroom day.

And just like Monday, I go through the house and tidy—put anything that’s out of place back where it belongs.

 

Saturday:

1st Sat of month: Sweep the basement

2nd Sat of the month: Dust the house

3rd Sat: Vacuum the bedroom carpets, hallway, and steps

4th Sat: Vacuum out car

5th Sat: clean hood on stove

 

Sunday:

I do odds and ends that are specific to my life: for example, I keep a week’s worth of socks and underwear in my bathroom. Sunday is the day I gather up the socks/underwear for that bathroom. 

Work with my college-aged son who struggles with executive functioning to create a to-do list for him for the upcoming week

I put prescriptions in their weekly holders for everyone

Vacuum the living room 

Check that we’re not running low on acne medicine for the teenagers (are ordered online and take a week to arrive, so I have to stay on top of this.)

Wash a window on the house (if I skip this one, I don’t care.)

 

 

And there you go. It’s the bare minimum, but I struggled for years to even get this much done, so I’m pretty happy. The house isn’t perfect, but it’s not a total embarrassment either. I could have someone come in and wouldn’t feel the need to apologize. 

Edited by Garga
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3 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

Thank you all. I don’t really have the downstairs under control. Most horizontal surfaces are covered. 2 people in my family have severe ADHD and put nothing up /away. It’s a bit like brushing teeth and eating oreos. But I will work on it.  

I’m like this and so are my kids.  We are in a mess at the moment.  It doesn’t work well for us to rely on everything getting put away we need a designated tidy up time at the end of the day.   Mystie winckler calls it EHAP, fly lady calls it the hotspot drill etc.  Set a timer for 20 minutes somewhere at the end of the day and everyone puts stuff where it belongs.  This is the one strategy that works when we do it.  That said it will only work if there’s enough storage for everything to be put away.  But at least it helps.

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This is my coffee table. There are a lot of books (no room on any bookshelf in the house), an etch a sketch, slime, sunglasses, kid jewelry, a Nintendo DS, GS badges, a pile of $2 bills, tea bins full of $.50 cent and $1 coins (fun uncle present), a laptop that I don’t use but don’t know what to do with it, a kid Disney souvenir, stress balls the kids made with a babysitter, a charging battery. I don’t know where to put 85% of this stuff.  

02B91506-844E-431B-B68D-68C5A208D3C5.jpeg

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14 hours ago, regentrude said:

Radical konmarie.

Touch each item, ask if it sparks joy, if answer is no, donate or trash. The solution to clutter is not a complicated routine or new storage containers, but a radical reduction of possessions. 

If "spark joy" doesn't work for you, ask yourself instead "would I repurchase this item if my house burned down?"

I would gladly cull 75% of the stuff in my house. Everyone else in my family feels very differently. 

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4 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

 I don’t know where to put 85% of this stuff.  

 

That might be the first problem to tackle.  Things need designated homes.  This is also something I didn't learn until I was an adult - being told to "put away" my toys as a kid was always frustrating because I didn't KNOW where anything went!  It was just put where it didn't look messy.

So, designate homes.  If one can't be designated, then the owner has to make a decision to keep or get rid of it.  Like, our Etch-a-sketch is in the travel toy bin.  It's a closed box full of toys that are great for on the road: bingo, magnetic games, activity books.  They can be taken out, but that's their designated home.  When the bin got too full, we culled toys that had outlived their usefulness.

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Stack the books neatly when not in use.  And, start going through your bookshelves to see what you can cull, or, pack up some books that aren't currently in use but can't be gotten rid of and put them in attic or other dry storage place. (We have a few dozen boxes of books in our crawlspace; they are inventoried so we can find what we are looking for.

Put the laptop in a closet, office, other space out of the way while you look for a place to donate it (or sell it, recycle, whatever).

The charging battery.... I keep that sort of thing in the "electronics" drawer of my desk. If you don't have a desk drawer, could you get a decent-looking storage box and keep those things in a closet, on top of a dresser?

Can the kids' toys go in their room(s), or could you get a basket or bin to store them in?  Maybe to the right of that chair? (Obvs I can't tell from the photo if that is a space.)

GS badges and other keepsakes - another pretty box in the child's room or other space in the house?  We have a tin of unusable or "sentimental" money - coins and bills from other countries, a few $2 bills, stuff like that. It lives in a drawer in my nightstand and is rarely looked at, but we all know it's there and can be added to if occasion arises.

 

Edited by marbel
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I'm also going to add, some of our homes look weird, but they work.  There's a beautiful square wicker basket on the bottom bookshelf that is full of legos.  The one above that is yarn.  Both are things we do in the living room, so moving them wouldn't work for us.  There's a Polish pottery bowl in the kitchen filled with ramen packets - the oldest likes a snack at midnight when he gets off work, but doesn't like to close the cabinets quietly.  So, pretty bowl, bright orange ramen packets.  Don't care.  It works for right now.

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4 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

That might be the first problem to tackle.  Things need designated homes.  This is also something I didn't learn until I was an adult - being told to "put away" my toys as a kid was always frustrating because I didn't KNOW where anything went!  It was just put where it didn't look messy.

So, designate homes.  If one can't be designated, then the owner has to make a decision to keep or get rid of it.  Like, our Etch-a-sketch is in the travel toy bin.  It's a closed box full of toys that are great for on the road: bingo, magnetic games, activity books.  They can be taken out, but that's their designated home.  When the bin got too full, we culled toys that had outlived their usefulness.

These suggestions are very helpful. The idea of a travel toy box belies a level of organization I don’t think I’m capable of achieving. What kind of box? Labeled how? Kept where?  Here a picture of my hall closet for an idea of my struggles. 

4F69A223-1B31-4455-81C4-257D24046A5C.jpeg

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@lauraw4321this is our travel bin. It’s pretty small, but it’s kept in the upstairs hall closet because it’s near the bedrooms and available for quiet sleepover games.

 

This is a bite of the elephant, though. The more people get into the habit of a 10-item tidy, the more they start looking for homes. So you designate those places first and slowly begin the others.

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25 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I would gladly cull 75% of the stuff in my house. Everyone else in my family feels very differently. 

Then they need find homes for their stuff and not make it your responsibility. I like the basement box idea of a pp: anything that is not in its spot goes into timeout.

No new toy may enter the home unless an old one leaves. Ditto for clothes, household things, etc. 

You can start by culling the items that are solely yours.

Edited by regentrude
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35 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

These suggestions are very helpful. The idea of a travel toy box belies a level of organization I don’t think I’m capable of achieving. What kind of box? Labeled how? Kept where?  Here a picture of my hall closet for an idea of my struggles. 

4F69A223-1B31-4455-81C4-257D24046A5C.jpeg

Do you have an attic or basement?

You need bins bins bins. The stuff in this closet needs to go in bins that can be stacked and labeled. 

What kind of bins? Hard to tell. Pull all the stuff out and eyeball how much is there. Measure the space in the closet. Head to Walmart (or somewhere like that) with a tape measurer in hand and find plastic storage bins that will fit your stuff and fit in the space.  When possible put similar items in the same bin. When not possible, label the sides of the bin with the contents.

As far as labeling, a piece of paper and some tape stuck on the side of the bins will do. Clear packing tape is best, and buy a dispenser for the tape (game changer around here for taping things.)

 

For the first picture of the coffee table, it sounds like the kids might need bins in their rooms, or else shelves with baskets on the shelves to stuff things in. I don’t know how much room is in their rooms, so either shelves with baskets or just a pile of bins.

One basket/bin can be for sentimental stuff, like the badges and the coins.  Other baskets/bins can be for whatever makes sense. Bins can be stacked up against the wall or shoved under the bed or shoved in a closet.

And you definitely need a bin somewhere in the house to hold random wires. Wrap them with twisty ties or with rubber bands. Write what the wire is to on a piece of paper and rubber band it to the wire if it’s something you don’t use often. 

 

And I’ll bet you’re soooo ready to get rid of stuff. Take the time to collect unwanted items and then take them to Goodwill or put them in the trash each week.  Put the bags to Goodwill in your car the second they’re full, so they don’t sit in the house forever. 

 

 

As I said earlier, don’t worry about how long this will take. If you’re inspired and want to do a lot all at once, great. If not, tackle just one tiny piece at a time.  Think in terms of months or even a year. If you do a tiny piece at a time, by this time next year, everything could be different. Or if that’s just too long, set a goal to have everything cleaned out by December 1, in time for Christmas decorating. Do one or two rooms a month, or whatever works for you. 

Edited by Garga
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40 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Then they need find homes for their stuff and not make it your responsibility. I like the basement box idea of a pp: anything that is not in its spot goes into timeout.

No new toy may enter the home unless an old one leaves. Ditto for clothes, household things, etc. 

You can start by culling the items that are solely yours.

This is good advice in general but it doesn't always work. Certainly it can be forced on young children. But as people get older, they develop their own opinions on how/where to store things and how best to use shared space. Clothing is tricky.  A person may need new clothing for a job, a class, whatever, that doesn't replace other clothing they may also still need to use.  It's not always a one-for-one exchange.  

My ideas of where/how to store things is vastly different than my husband's and (now grown) kids. I am not going to force them to get rid of their things. I cannot completely control the shared spaces because those are my family's spaces too. We have to compromise a lot and it doesn't always go the way I would especially like. But it is not my house, it is ours.  

There is a theory that if one person starts decluttering, others in the same household will follow. That has not been my experience, for sure! 🤷‍♂️

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1 minute ago, marbel said:

This is good advice in general but it doesn't always work. Certainly it can be forced on young children. But as people get older, they develop their own opinions on how/where to store things and how best to use shared space. 

Sure. But having a rule which items ate appropriate in shared space and which need to go into personal space may be very helpful.

If kid has a box with misc stuff that belongs in their bedroom, they don't need to store misc stuff on the living room table. That would be a reasonable compromise. 

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I agree with the pps on this. You need to get rid of a bunch of stuff that’s not being used! It’s really hard to stay organized when you have a whole lot of stuff. And yes, everything needs a home so when it’s time to ‘put stuff up’ there’s a place for it to be. 

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1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

I would gladly cull 75% of the stuff in my house. Everyone else in my family feels very differently. 

I think sometimes what people miss about Flylady is *why* she got into the pickle. She didn't feel well, was struggling with depression, I think maybe had thyroid problems. So she calls it messy house syndrome, but it's because the messy house was the symptom, not really the problem. Your house is *hygienic* and your family seem *happy* but still you are feeling overwhelmed. 

The FIRST thing to do to get your house in order is to take care of yourself. Always, always, always. Like for me, it means keeping my anxiety under control. If I miss stuff I take for anxiety, I can't clean. If my thyroid is low, I can't clean. (Well I can, but it doesn't go well, lol.) Cleaning involves a lot of decisions, so if you're not feeling as well as you'd like, for whatever reason, that's really hard. Now taking it in tiny bites can help! But sometimes, backing up and asking if there's anything you need to do to feel better is the first step. 

And not to be too pokey/nosey, but that hoarder thing you described from your growing up experience, that's a mental health/anxiety thing. 

Once I realized what components of my messy house were me, my reality (some days tired, some days anxious, some weeks my thyroid meds not at the right level), I started giving myself more grace. I know when I feel better, I CAN think to sort through those things.

1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

These suggestions are very helpful. The idea of a travel toy box belies a level of organization I don’t think I’m capable of achieving. What kind of box? Labeled how? Kept where?  Here a picture of my hall closet for an idea of my struggles. 

4F69A223-1B31-4455-81C4-257D24046A5C.jpeg

Fwiw, the closet is very small. How many people do you have there? I think with that many people, anyone would struggle. Also it seems like you have some undefined objects (things that are trash, things that are not put away). I agree that you cannot simply tell people to figure it out, because they have to be taught. For me, this is just me, but if I feel well I can walk up to that closet and know what to do. And when I don't feel well, ain't happening. Same me, but my reality (body, anxiety, etc.) is a factor. 

So it might be easier to hang a row of hooks at your most used entrance and have each person have *1* jacket that fits the season. Everything else should store in their rooms. The game probably has a location (your school room or a game closet) and the miscelleneous on the floor may be trash at this point. You may find it easier to determine what the PROPER use is of that closet, empty it and make that happen, then deal with the clutter you pulled it. What is this closet adjacent to? If you installed shelving, it could store games. You could leave it a guest closet if it's at a formal entrance. You could hang umbrellas and bulky out of season coats. Since it's too small to hold every day use items for a larger family, it makes no sense to use it that way. Create a use that does make sense and move the stuff elsewhere.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Command-Metal-Hook-Large-Brushed-Nickel-Finish-1-Hook-2-Strips/14881957  Here's an example of hooks you can easily hang yourself with no tools. They'll work great. You can put up 6 of them in a row or even double stack them, upper/lower. 

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1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

These suggestions are very helpful. The idea of a travel toy box belies a level of organization I don’t think I’m capable of achieving. What kind of box? Labeled how? Kept where?  Here a picture of my hall closet for an idea of my struggles. 

4F69A223-1B31-4455-81C4-257D24046A5C.jpeg

I think A Slob Comes Clean 2 question decluttering may help you here or on your coffee table. Get rid of any obvious trash first - empty wrappers, torn walmart bags, etc,. (Hey, no judgement here, I'm sitting looking at a coffee table that I just emptied Sat and is now filled with junk including 3 receipts, an empty mailing pouch, and random bits of paper). Then, pick up an item from the pile/table. Look at it and ask yourself, "If I were looking for this item, where would I look first?" Don't think about where a "normal" person might look for it, where would YOU look for it? Then, if it has an immediate answer, (like the Christmas picture or the game in this photo probably have a home even if that home is bursting at the seams), take it there before doing anything else. If it does not have an immediate answer, for example, glue sticks when you have no designated craft area or the patch kit for a tent or something, ask yourself, "If I needed this, would it even dawn on me that I owned one already?" If you would honestly just go buy it if you really needed it, then you don't need to store it and you can donate/toss with no guilt. 

It's a way of decluttering without making a bigger mess which is a big issue for me. Because then my donate pile and take it to the living room pile and kids' closet piles all fall over, mingle, and collect more clutter...

https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/2010/02/my-two-decluttering-questions/

https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/2014/04/how-to-declutter-without-making-a-bigger-mess/

 

As for your overflowing book shelves, another post that may help. This concept never clicked with me - I'd just keep shoving books in and then the kids wouldn't touch any of them because they couldn't get just one to pull out, and I was always upset about the mess of the extra books on the floor. Although we still have "double-stacked" bookshelves, it is buckets better than it was... https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/2010/05/ooooooh-container-now-i-get-it/

 

Edited by historically accurate
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I find that for certain places, I have to make sure that NOTHING is stored there. So I don't do decorative baskets of pretties, coffee table books, magazines or anything like that. (Maybe a coaster) It seems that with a few places in the house, if one thing is left there, it'll multiply like rabbits. And I can tell a kid "Clear the table" and they know that I mean that everything disappears.

That's for down the road though. Currently, you have to find places for the stuff. Remember if you can't find a place for it, you may not "need" it all that badly. Or there's something else that you need less so you can put it in that place.

Do you have a hard time making decisions on stuff? 

Because that is a mindset that we can talk you through. I can get rid of things in a heartbeat. My dh, however, struggles with this, and he is the chief piler upper in the house. 

So things like 

"I might need this someday." 

"Someone spent good money on this."

"So and So (special person) gave us this as a gift."

Are mental roadblocks to decluttering. 

And then when he does take the time, there's so many of these kinds of thoughts floating in his head that prevent him from making progress that he just gets overwhelmed and its easier to walk away.

What goes through your mind when you start cleaning and decluttering?

For me, when my kids were little, I'd drag out laundry baskets and sort random things into them that were all over the house, one basket per person and one basket for things that belonged to nobody.

Then, I would just set the laundry basket of random objects in the kids' rooms in a corner (in the basement might be better, but I don't have one.) I would not fool with trying to find a place for everything in each kid room until the common areas were clean. It's easier to maintain tidy areas than to try to clean the whole house at once.

Start with your living room today and just declutter. Do the surfaces in the kitchen (junk drawers and cabinets can wait until you have the other rooms tiday) so that the room looks tidy and feels good. 

I have a system for paper that I can share if that's a problem for you.

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1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

This is my coffee table. There are a lot of books (no room on any bookshelf in the house), an etch a sketch, slime, sunglasses, kid jewelry, a Nintendo DS, GS badges, a pile of $2 bills, tea bins full of $.50 cent and $1 coins (fun uncle present), a laptop that I don’t use but don’t know what to do with it, a kid Disney souvenir, stress balls the kids made with a babysitter, a charging battery. I don’t know where to put 85% of this stuff.  

02B91506-844E-431B-B68D-68C5A208D3C5.jpeg

Not to be rude or tacky, but throw away the coffee table. It's just catching clutter and the only functional thing (holding your coffee cup) would be better done by a $20 accent/side table beside the recliner. So burn pile for the coffee table. 

Your bookshelves are full, but I'm seeing a spot for another. :biggrin: Do your kids have bookshelves in their rooms yet? https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/hemnes-bookcase-white-stain-40371763/  I just bought one of these for my dad and I LOVE it. Great price, solid wood, easy to assemble (my ds did it), and sturdy. Comes in the narrower, which would be lovely in a bedroom and get you lots of VERTICAL, or go for a larger elsewhere. If the kids each have *1* of these narrow Hemnes bookcases in their bedroom it can hold their personal books *and* their travel momentos. That should solve a bunch of the problems on your table.

Tea goes in the kitchen. You know this. 

I keep our nintendo stuff in a simple plastic dishpan by the tv. You can get a dishpan for $1 at dollar tree. I tell him the device is mine and using it is a privilege. If someone isn't going to put it away, they lose the privilege.

Some of that is school stuff. Do you have a dedicated school space? Is that bugging you to have school stuff in your living space? It might be something to be honest about if you really like to have some separation there. You may need to create a dedicated room or have bins so people know where their stuff goes back to. I'm particularly keen on the rope baskets you can get at Target right now, but I only have one student. With more, you need to go VERTICAL. So like a bookcase (maybe that IKEA Hemnes!) and put a bin for each person. 

It looks like you also have some bathroom items, which you can return. Eventually you'll work on your bathroom. It's ok to start with one place. I'd start with whatever is *easiest* or whatever would make your life *better*. If it would make your life better to have the living room feel good, start there. But I will say, if you don't toss the coffee table and put in replacement structures, it will all come right back.

You're hygienic. You just don't feel peaceful and you don't have the structures for your routines, hence things landing places. I think that's the hard part about having a lot of kids. Your need for structure and systems grows FAST, all while you're overwhelmed and tired and busy. So give yourself some grace. You'll figure it out.

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Just now, fairfarmhand said:

So things like 

"I might need this someday." 

"Someone spent good money on this."

"So and So (special person) gave us this as a gift."

Are mental roadblocks to decluttering. 

 

Oh, gosh, I relate to this so much! I had to retrain myself to think "this deserves better love than its getting, even if that's not here."  And some things, they're sitting in the basement.  I have a beautiful cheese tray that really deserves better love, but until I'm ready it's in a box of miscellaneous kitchen supplies tucked away.

 

My main problem, though, is a serious inability to see clutter as separate from the room unless I literally pick up every item and go through the steps:
-does this belong here?  Yes or no
if no
-Where is its home?

Every.single. thing.  I cannot just go clean a counter and know what needs to be done by looking at it.  I am well aware that much of the world does not seem to operate this way. 😄 But decluttering helped a lot because it was less to mentally weigh every day.

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When my life gets crazy and I need to clean something overwhelming, I divide it into *tiny parts*. So like for the dining table, I'll do say a 1' square. That's it. Walk up, do that, walk away. If I do that enough, eventually it gets done. 

When you do one room or one spot, you LEARN SKILLS that will make you better at the next spot. So it will get easier because you will become better at it. I'm better now than I was 10 or 15 years ago. But it's learned. I had to try things that didn't work, and I had to shop and find things that would work. Like those IKEA bookcases or those hooks. You learn by trying and failing and trying again. 

So don't think oh this person knows how, they have genes and I don't. You have to deal with your own self (health, mental health, whatever) and the rest is a LEARNED SKILL, which means you can learn it.

Edited by PeterPan
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