Always Sounds Irritated - ADHD Trait or Something Else?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Okay, "always" is an exaggeration...

DS 15 has ADHD and talks to me in an irritated tone way, way too often. It isn't just his age because he's been this way for most of his life. He does it to DH less often, probably because I am the homeschooling parent and he is annoyed that the entire day isn't free time. DH works from home and regularly intervenes to tell DS that he sounds like he is yelling at me, etc. DS also speaks this way frequently to his younger brother DS recently started coaching and thankfully doesn't speak this way to his students. I don't think he speaks to his neighborhood friends this way, but I can't be sure.

Is this a common trait for people with ADHD or is it something else? I have spent YEARS telling him that tone of voice matters, not to speak to me that way, etc. It rarely seems to get through.

Edited June 18, 2021 by JumpyTheFrog

[Shoeless]

Does he have anxiety? When my anxiety is bad, I cop a snotty tone and attitude.

[Harriet Vane]

I wonder if it's kinda like resting b!tch face? When a person looks stern or irritated when they do not actually feel that way.

Have you asked him to practice saying exactly the same thing in a kinder tone? Sometimes we need to hear it how it's supposed to sound before we know what to aim for.

[KSera]

Does he realize after the fact that he sounded that way? My kid who spent years saying they didn’t know what I was talking about when I called them out on rude tone of voice ended up with an ASD diagnosis.. 

[Innisfree]

Just now, KSera said:

Does he realize after the fact that he sounded that way? My kid who spent years saying they didn’t know what I was talking about when I called them out on rude tone of voice ended up with an ASD diagnosis.. 

I was going to ask if you hadn't mentioned an ASD possibility before. That can look a lot like what you're describing, here.

[Tanaqui]

I'd be annoyed and irritated too if every time I spoke people told me my voice was wrong. Even if I wasn't to start, I would be by the time they were done interrupting me.

[Lecka]

I also thought “maybe autism.”

[JumpyTheFrog]

40 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I wonder if it's kinda like resting b!tch face? When a person looks stern or irritated when they do not actually feel that way.

Have you asked him to practice saying exactly the same thing in a kinder tone? Sometimes we need to hear it how it's supposed to sound before we know what to aim for.

I frequently have him repeat things in a calmer way. It works if he didn't intend to sound annoyed. However, I think he generally sounds annoyed because he is in fact mad that school is a part of his day and that he can't have free time all day. He doesn't usually have this tone of voice about chores. We spent five out of six weekends installing new floors in our house and he was much more pleasant, even the weekend where he had to help for fifteen hours.

[JumpyTheFrog]

22 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

I'd be annoyed and irritated too if every time I spoke people told me my voice was wrong. Even if I wasn't to start, I would be by the time they were done interrupting me.

I said neither of these things. First of all, I try very hard to not interrupt other people, and it is one of the things we try very, very hard to teach our kids not to do. Secondly, it isn't his voice that is wrong, it is the way he speaks to me when he is irritated that he has school. 

[Tanaqui]

So he's saying things like "Lay off Mom, I'll get to it when I get to it"?

[freesia]

13 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I said neither of these things. First of all, I try very hard to not interrupt other people, and it is one of the things we try very, very hard to teach our kids not to do. Secondly, it isn't his voice that is wrong, it is the way he speaks to me when he is irritated that he has school. 

I know you said it's not age, except that my 16 year old has had the same problem for the last year.  When he's irritated at having to do anything he doesn't want to (even when it's not something from me), he sounds irritated.  When I call him on it, he is sometimes surprised.  I think it's maturity and I just keep at it.  They still don't connect voice-brain-person well.  (Absolutely no ASD or ADHD with this child fwiw)

[Lecka]

That is a good point!

[Innisfree]

42 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I frequently have him repeat things in a calmer way. It works if he didn't intend to sound annoyed. However, I think he generally sounds annoyed because he is in fact mad that school is a part of his day and that he can't have free time all day. He doesn't usually have this tone of voice about chores. We spent five out of six weekends installing new floors in our house and he was much more pleasant, even the weekend where he had to help for fifteen hours.

Okay, that's maybe different from what I was thinking about.

I think one needs to distinguish between a teen having a short fuse, and expressing his irritation freely at home, even if that isn't the most mannerly behavior, otoh;

And a teen who doesn't understand the implications of his tone of voice, or how it might affect the emotions and responses of other people around him, oto.

Does he know that he sounds angry? Does he know that influences how others respond? Can he modulate his tone if he wants to? You could try catching him using a nice tone of voice and showing appreciation.

[Storygirl]

One of my kids is regularly snippy with me and always has been. Eye rolling, interrupting, saying, "I KNOW," before I finish speaking, muttering angry things under the breath. She definitely is not on the spectrum but does have a new ADHD diagnosis. I attribute much of it to impulsivity, which can be part of ADHD for some. It's definitely not an age related thing for her, because she was like this always, though it has intensified some during the teen years.

It never helps things when I ask her to repeat herself in a nicer tone -- she can't do it and will get more irritated, instead. The counselor has advised us to ignore the negative behaviors and give extra praise during positive moments. This is wise advice, I think, but hard for me to do. Still working on it.

[Katy]

It’s common at that age.  I know I acted that way at that age. My mom started using the video camera more, and when I’d watch the tapes I was horrified that I sounded so whiny and petulant. 

I’ve used the same idea with kids in our home.  I’m not certain it always holds, but to me it seems like neurotypical kids hate hearing themselves sound that way, and find a way to reign it in when they figure it out.

Can a sibling come up with a goal that will require you to record them more?  Hackey sack challenge- 1000 kicks without dropping it?  You video, catch sibling being awful in background?

Or just have DH talk to him about being such a jerk. 

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I frequently have him repeat things in a calmer way. It works if he didn't intend to sound annoyed. However, I think he generally sounds annoyed because he is in fact mad that school is a part of his day and that he can't have free time all day. He doesn't usually have this tone of voice about chores. We spent five out of six weekends installing new floors in our house and he was much more pleasant, even the weekend where he had to help for fifteen hours.

I see--this is a little different than what I thought. It doesn't sound like "resting b!tch face" at all. And it does sound really hard on you, the recipient of all that negative energy. 

Just brainstorming a bit, I wonder if he might benefit from exposure to others who work hard? I'm not totally sure what that would look like. I just wonder if he saw more people in a wider context who must put in time and effort to move up the ladder. 

I also like Katy's idea of recording him and playing it back for him. Just be careful not to share such recordings outside just you and dh and your son.

[Farrar]

The more you've described it, the more it sounds like this is a relationship issue, not a lack of understanding on his part about his tone of voice and how it sounds. Maybe he doesn't mean to sound that way and is doing it mostly unconsciously, but this isn't just "how he sounds" all the time. He's actually annoyed with you and it's coming out in his tone of voice.

Learning how to "fake it" for expediency and politeness *is* a really good and useful skill. But age 15 is NOT when I would try to teach it. It would be like trying to teach Holden Caulfield to be more phony. I think I'd try to focus on the relationship. But I'd do it with the understanding that... this is a hard time when teens and moms often clash and that's super normal.

[fraidycat]

Because he can and does use a nicer tone of voice with other people, it doesn't seem that is really a trait of his ADHD, but moreso disrespect for you and his sibling. My DD does not have ADHD and can be the same way toward me and her brother. She is better with me now that she is 18, but still tends to address her brother in a snippy/snotty tone more often than not. She does sometimes speak to DH in her tone, but not as often.

It's really actually quite weird, because she is also one of the most generous and polite (using manners) people I know. Always calling on her way home from work to offer to pick up items from the store or drinks and food from a drive-thru, and always quick to say thank you when I do things for her such as make sure her uniform is clean.  🤷🏻‍♀️
 

Some days I ignore the tone, other days I ask her to speak with kindness. Hopefully she'll fully mature out of it someday.

Edited June 19, 2021 by fraidycat

[MEmama]

8 hours ago, Farrar said:

The more you've described it, the more it sounds like this is a relationship issue, not a lack of understanding on his part about his tone of voice and how it sounds. Maybe he doesn't mean to sound that way and is doing it mostly unconsciously, but this isn't just "how he sounds" all the time. He's actually annoyed with you and it's coming out in his tone of voice.

Learning how to "fake it" for expediency and politeness *is* a really good and useful skill. But age 15 is NOT when I would try to teach it. It would be like trying to teach Holden Caulfield to be more phony. I think I'd try to focus on the relationship. But I'd do it with the understanding that... this is a hard time when teens and moms often clash and that's super normal.

DS is similar with DH, but rarely with me. I have a much better relationship with DS and work hard to maintain it. Extending courtesies like asking him to pause a video he’s watching before trying to have a conversation with him, instead of simply talking over it and expecting for him to redirect his attention immediately, is one (small but daily) example of why I’m more successful of avoiding the “tone” than DH is. 
 

I also extend a lot more grace to DS than DH does. It goes a long way to intentionally remember how being a teenager is and adjusting ones expectations appropriately. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by MEmama

[kbutton]

On 6/19/2021 at 1:03 AM, fraidycat said:

Because he can and does use a nicer tone of voice with other people, it doesn't seem that is really a trait of his ADHD, but moreso disrespect for you and his sibling. My DD does not have ADHD and can be the same way toward me and her brother. She is better with me now that she is 18, but still tends to address her brother in a snippy/snotty tone more often than not. She does sometimes speak to DH in her tone, but not as often.

Well, people often relax at home and aren't as careful about being nice around family, and lack of inhibition is a problem for a lot of people with ADHD. It can also be an anxiety thing, and it's often co-morbid with ADHD.

I know some of my ADHD people can have an irritable tone, especially with family. 

[PeterPan]

On 6/18/2021 at 4:28 PM, JumpyTheFrog said:

I frequently have him repeat things in a calmer way. It works if he didn't intend to sound annoyed. However, I think he generally sounds annoyed because he is in fact mad that school is a part of his day and that he can't have free time all day. He doesn't usually have this tone of voice about chores. We spent five out of six weekends installing new floors in our house and he was much more pleasant, even the weekend where he had to help for fifteen hours.

Honestly, I point out to my ds that if he doesn't want to interact with me politely and respectfully and do the work, he'll do it for someone else, that doing the work is the law but doing it with me is a privilege. So he may be a little confused about social norms, the law, and just feeling like you're imposing things on him and using up his free time (a very spectrumy way to react btw), but that doesn't mean he can't understand the cause/effect or problem solve collaboratively. You could try to discuss it collaboratively and have him express what his problem is, how he feels about it, and what he'd like to do about it.

[Garga]

My ADHD son was/is that way. 

It got worse and worse and worse. Finally at 17, we realized he had full-blown depression mostly from his ADHD meds, but also just because he has depression.

Does your son take ADHD meds? 

My son also has anxiety. The harsh tone was more anxiety and depression than anything else. He was utterly miserable inside and didn’t realize that not everyone feels so utterly miserable, so he didn’t know that he could get help. 

If you ask your son if he’s anxious or depressed, he might say no. I had my son take a little online quiz to see if he was depressed, because he didn’t think he was. But he was.